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Clean house myself?

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January 3, 2018
10 upvotes

Hi guys, I am very new to RP. I understand if you tell me to STFU and read the sidebar. I’m currently doing that, but I have a lot of work to do still.

My wife has never been good at keeping a neat house. I have been better in the past at keeping the house neat, but I would like everyone to do a better job.

In the past, I would use covert contracts and even nag or guilt her into cleaning up (even just the shit that she personally made a mess of) - I am realizing that I have created this situation by allowing it from the start.

Considering that I am still very new to this, should I just lead by example and clean things up to the standard that I would like them kept to? Is there a better alternative where I could lead her into it now - understanding that my frame is still weak as fuck?

I am conscious not to create another covert contract. I would do this with no strings - Because I want things kept clean. However, I would like to stop reinforcing nice guy behavior where I would do all of the work while she watches TV.

My gut tells me to just do it and STFU. Later when I have improved myself and established frame, I will be more capable of leading the whole family to follow the example I will start setting now.

Alternatively, I could give my expectations to her but I’m wary of going Rambo or acting out of bravado (still fake because of my weak frame).


Post Information
Title Clean house myself?
Author TheFireStartsWithin
Upvotes 10
Comments 60
Date 03 January 2018 02:54 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/204997
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/7nv46y/clean_house_myself/
Similar Posts

Red Pill terms found in post:
framecovert contract
Comments

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret29 points30 points  (8 children) | Copy

Just do it, STFU, and absolutely under no circumstances tell your wife that you are doing it. That's validation-seeking, and is unattractive. If she sees you, fine, you STFU and get it done.

Your house = your ship. Get it under control.

[–]FoxShitNasty831 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Mind blown! Cheers 😊

[–]mahathun-2 points-1 points  (6 children) | Copy

Your house = your ship. Get it under control

While I understand this what if it comes to a point where she thinks "oh he is doing it anyway. why should I bother" or it automatically becomes your task to do all the cleaning and even get angry or try to teach how to do things without actually helping. How to handle such situation ?

[–]SimilarSalvation2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

How to handle such situation ?

What situation? - This is BluePill thinking...

  • The situation of a man owning a clean house?
  • The situation of a man owning his shit?
  • The situation of a man working on himself?
  • The situation of a man becoming a better version of himself?
  • The situation of a man becoming/being a leader?
  • The situation of a man becoming so awesome he will be noticed by other woman (you do lift, do you?)
  • The situation of a man having righteous self-esteem and radiating abundance?

Somewhere along that path, dread will come into play. Somewhere along that path, the missus will notice the changes in the man. It is her choice how to act upon those changes, how to let the dread affect her. You can only change you...

Maybe she will jump on the bandwagon and start doing her part of the relationship (clean, cook, fuck and suck), maybe she will not... But by the time you will have to face that decision, you no longer care because you are awesome..

So yeah, you don't want to become the pack-mule of the house, by doing all the chores. But you don't want to live in swinery until you have digested the pill, right?

[–]beta_no_mo0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If she gives a shit about you at all, she'll get up help at some point. If she doesn't, you know exactly what she thinks of you and you can hard next her, especially if she's a SAHM.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Read this - https://news.utexas.edu/2014/05/16/mcraven-urges-graduates-to-find-courage-to-change-the-world and see how it is similar to cleaning your house.

[–]cholomiteMod / BP Downvote Magnet12 points13 points  (7 children) | Copy

Just clean your house if it needs to be cleaned. You're an adult man, just handle your shit. Sitting around waiting for others to do shit for you makes you look weak and helpless.

It never hurts to just live your life as though you're already a bachelor and can handle your shit just fine. It will show your girl that you don't need her around as much as she might think and will probably cause a little dread. Just make sure you do go validation seeking or ask for praise or anything. Just clean your shit, and move on.

[–]SimilarSalvation8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy

Just make sure you don't go validation seeking or ask for praise or anything

This ^

Don't go bragging about it to her, don't try to give subtle hints as to what you cleaned today, and don't be butthurt when she messes things up again..

This was my hardest part: seeing her putting dirty dishes on the cleaned counter, not putting her shoes away when she comes home, but just kick them under table on the freshly mobbed floor... It takes a lot of STFU to act like you DNGAF at that point...

[–]cholomiteMod / BP Downvote Magnet3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Wew, good save on the "don't". Thanks for catching that.

[–]SimilarSalvation3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

You would not want to be responsible for a failed marriage, now would you...

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

He needs to be careful not to make this a regular occurrence. She will come to expect it and do less, I guarantee it. Pick something random, do it and do it sporadically. Don't let this become the "normal".

OP's woman won't walk a mile if she can ride on his back and he's looking like a good mule right now....

FYI, I did this in the past and I am having to redraw boundaries all over again. Just a thought, but doesn't the captain also set standards and boundaries? The Captains not going to swab the deck...

*Edit for language

[–]JudgeDoom690 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Just make sure you do go validation seeking or ask for praise or anything. Just clean your shit, and move on.

There's a good chance that when she see's him stoically cleaning the house a few times without expecting anything in return, she'll join in the effort.

[–]mahathun-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

While I understand this what if it comes to a point where she thinks "oh he is doing it anyway. why should I bother" or it automatically becomes your task to do all the cleaning and even get angry or try to teach how to do things without actually helping. How to handle such situation ?

[–]cholomiteMod / BP Downvote Magnet0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Remove your time and attention from her, sprinkle in a little dread on top of the already attractive person you should be and she will want to make an effort to please you. If she feels like you are perfectly able to handle every aspect of your daily life without her, it will usually make her step up her game to stay in your good favor, but that's only if she already respects you and finds you attractive.

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

First off, it's your ship. You run it as tight or as loose as you would like as long as you are the captain and leading appropriately.

However, I would like to stop reinforcing nice guy behavior where I would do all of the work while she watches TV.

I get the fear of being walked over especially after being the nice guy for many years. Drop the ego and the covert contract and just take care of it. If she watches TV while you take care of the house, lift, dress better, take her pussy off of the pedestal, and go out regularly she is going to feel like dead weight and very "replaceable".

I set up a chore wheel for the family. I have 4 kids and the tricky part is getting them working together. The chore wheel provides clear expectations and structure. They don't question when it is their turn. The wife and I both have a spot on the wheel and pitch in equally. For years the wife would talk about getting a system put together. Like an idiot, for years I thought she would take initiative and do it. She never did and would just complain to me. It wasn't until I came here and started seeing where I was falling short in leading the family that I just took the initiative and did it. She was a little skeptical at first, but has totally bought in now. So have the kids.

It is not sidebar material, but Extreme Ownership or just about anything Jocko Willink will do you some good. He is heavy on effective leadership and taking ownership which is likely something you lack.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I’ll look up the chore wheel and Extreme ownership. The sidebar material will likely take some time, but I’ll have that one on deck. Appreciate the feedback.

[–]2235522 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Start changing the way you see things. Its YOUR house, how do you want it? Think what you would do if you were single, and run that way. Keep your house how you want it, for yourself. Keep an an eye on how you project it, make sure its not butt hurt (because the wife is not doing it), make sure not to seek recognition/validation from her. In my case my wife thought I am doing it to rub it in her nose, and a few time I have had to say it, "this is my house, and this is how I want things". Last time I had to say this was a few weeks ago, and I have been here nearly 12 months (we have been together 14yrs), so these changes take time.

[–]BobbyPeru1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

I understand if you tell me to STFU and read the sidebar. I’m currently doing that,

This could mean anything from I’m halfway through my first book to I read every book on the sidebar except one. Need specifics....

My gut tells me to just do it and STFU.

trust your gut and STFU. After some time, you can start leading. For example: “ hey let’s get this placed cleaned up real quick so we can go out and blah blah blah”

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I discovered RP within the last month. I started lifting 5x per week 2 weeks ago. Read most of Rational Male sidebar posts, currently reading NMMNG. Very new still. Things make a lot of sense and I’m angry at myself for being so stupid before. No use crying over spilled milk. I can only improve myself for the future.

[–]RPWolfAlpha_as_Wolf_2.01 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

My wife is the same way. She is a complete slob. She also has ADHD and leaves everything half done. I used to get resentful at it and pissy.

As I improve and OMS and just do things without pointing it out to her she has gotten on board around the house more. I never point out that I did anything. She does not see 7 out of 10 of the things and even when she acknowledges them you just say thanks and go about your day. Sometimes I will fuck with her and use some AM with it. Example, she is notorious for leaving her shoes laying about the bed room. More then once I almost broke my neck in the night. Last time it happened I took her shoes the next day and spelled out PUT ME AWAY with them. She got the point and I got a "You're such an asshole!" with a smirk. Shoes havent been left out since.

Just do your list of shit and don't stop until bed time. If your are handling your shit she will notice and possibly start helping out.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

should I just lead by example and clean things up to the standard that I would like them kept to?

You can do whatever you want to do so long as you hold no covert expectations from other people to reward you for doing what you wanted to do.

Being a slob is a personality characteristic that is not very subject to change. Slobs often marry neat freaks. Go figure.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I mentioned it prior, but that was the big difference for me. I have always struggled with covert contracts. NMMNG and you guys here have helped me realize and correct that.

[–]drjamesstone0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

There's a distinct difference between being in control and having your wife live up to some role you have for her in your head. You want a clean house, clean your fucking house. Don't do it because you're trying to set an example, do it because this is important to you. It also serves as a reminder of how easily you can transition to being on your own in the event this marriage fails.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

If it wasn’t important to me, I wouldn’t care if she did it either. I do agree with you though...if I want it done, I’ll just do it. I’m not at all worried about being on my own - I’m with her because I love her and I want to provide the best upbringing for my son. Divorce isn’t off the table but I think I owe it to myself to fix my own shit and see how it goes first.

[–]drjamesstone0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You should definitely what fix it means to you. I don't think you know

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Not sure I follow what you are saying? Are you referring to fixing the messy house (not a big deal) Or fixing myself?

In my reply to you, I meant that I need to fix myself (body, mind, frame) before I can make decisions on which relationships to keep or throw away.

I realize that I have a lot to learn.

If I misunderstood you, please let me know what you meant.

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Here's a fun exercise. Clean your house top to bottom. Don't say a word, just clean.

When you're done kiss her on the forehead and say, "Back in a few"

Then walk out.

Don't answer texts other than, "Back in a few"

When you get back tell her, "I just wanted to get some air"

Tell us what her hamster wheel is like.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Lol. Shit test incoming...I like that idea but I’m going to give it a little bit more time before I use those tactics. At this point, there is no dread bc I’ve been a lazy bitch, and living in her frame.

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

meh, you give too many fucks.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Can’t disagree with that. I think that’s how I got myself into this mess, lol. I have no clue how to handle the inevitable questions. I’ve got some reading to do.

[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Militia0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Do you like a clean house?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Yes

[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Militia0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Then step up and clean the damn house. Keep your trap shit, and hit the gym.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Already done now, but I agree. You guys have provided a good perspective. Thank you.

[–]zurgenfloggin0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I've been at this for about a year. Right now, if I walk into a room and it needs to be cleaned, I clean it.

There are rules my wife has made about which teenager was supposed to have cleaned what. I listen -- and often remember these rules. I (sometimes) charge the kids a nominal fee if I cleaned it when they should have, but I employ a fatherly grace when I see fit.

Sometimes I walk into the kitchen (I work at home when I'm not traveling to client meetings) and I see it needs to be cleaned. I don't sigh at the wife -- who has no job -- for the state of things, I just clean it. It takes 5-10 min. She will sometimes say "Oh, I told myself I was going to clean the kitchen before you walked in". I don't respond. Over 20 years, I've learned this is just my wife's way of minimizing the pain.

There is no need to lecture my wife, or even mention it. There were years where we had a 6 month old and it was not reasonable to expect her to have it cleaned. There were months where lots of things were happening. If I think a room needs to be cleaned I clean it, because I want it cleaned.

[–]megaduff0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for this post. I’m going through something similar.

Interestingly, the top answers so far are not what I expected. My instincts tell me that we should lead and tell them to clean up their shit while we’re cleaning up our shit.

I’ll keep an eye on this post to see if any other gems of advice surface.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

"get off your fucking ass and help me" as you clean and clean to a set standard

Don't expect anything in return. It needs to be done. If it's so bad she wants to sit and watch TV, throw the mother fucker out

[–]FoxShitNasty83-1 points0 points  (10 children) | Copy

Does the missus work? Do you work? Does she tell you it's your job to tidy? Is she lazy elsewhere?

[–]rocknrollchuck5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

Doesn't matter right now. He's the Captain, the Captain works harder than everyone else. When he has regained control of his ship, then he can start to delegate.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Good read and very relevant right now. I must regain control of my ship.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy

She works about 35 hr per week, I work about 50 hr per week. I make about 80% of the family income. She doesn’t tell me that it’s my job, in fact she usually cleans up without prompting - but does a pretty crappy job about keeping it clean. She isn’t always lazy but I find that she often rationalizes spending hours per day watching TV or playing on her phone. The house cleanliness isn’t a disaster but I had decided that I would like to keep our house cleaner and looking nicer.

I’m going to just clean today without saying anything about it. I’ll shrug it off (STFU) if she mentions anything about it, and this time I will not have any expectations of getting anything in return. I’ll clean because I want a clean house.

Thanks for the advice guys.

[–]fuckmrpRed Beret12 points13 points  (2 children) | Copy

Keep in mind that you do not want to become the family plow horse. If she wants to contribute value she will take initiative after seeing you taking action. If she does not then it's not your job to do EVERYTHING in the long term.

If she does not begin to pickup the slack after some time then funds should be diverted away from her and towards a housekeeper. Your job as a leader is to manifest outcomes. It's the difference between "I want a clean house" vs "I want a wife that cleans". Only one of these is completely within your control.

Always remember part of leading is making your actions so loud that your words are unnecessary.

[–]Reach180Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Keep in mind that you do not want to become the family plow horse.

This becomes true eventually, but if a guy starts off cautious about ever becoming the plow horse, it sets him in a score keeping mindset.

Be the plow horse, for a time. For most of the guys that come here, it's going to reveal that they are capable of more than they thought.

Once a guy has set the standard, and lived to it for a while, he's in a better place to determine what's important and who gets to stay.

[–]ImSteveMcQueen0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

^ This.

[–]BobbyPeru2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I’ll clean because I want a clean house.

Good - this is a Key mentality switch

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Definitely a light bulb moment for me, during my reading.

[–]snatch_haggis1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I will not have any expectations of getting anything in return

This is the single most important part of all of it. You're not doing this to shame her, you're not doing this to prove what a great guy you are, you're doing it because it's your damn house and you want it to be clean and tidy.

As fuckmrp said, over time this will be about setting an expectation of a default cleanliness level that you expect the house to live up to, but in the near term, these actions are about you leading. This is about letting the 1000 foot rope do its job.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Those have been problems for me in the past - covert contracts. I am realizing how fucked up I was. Appreciate the feedback.



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