How did your wife react over time?

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February 10, 2017

My Background: MRP since November. Lifting, eating better, down to 170 from 179 or so, body fat around 20% from god knows whatever it was, 30% maybe? Reading sidebar, mostly focusing on my own mindset, stopping supplicating beta behaviors, and improving my own life + assertiveness. Just now getting into the "game" pieces of the sidebar.

Question: How did your wife react to your MRP journey over time?

For me, starting MRP has been all about withdrawing my over the top comfort-building, beta behaviors, and focusing more on my own happiness.

That's meant lots of focus on working out and diet, rebuilding relationships with friends and going out a few times a week, starting up jiu jitsu classes twice a week, dressing better, while also trying to establish my own point of reference and not constantly worrying about how she feels, what she's thinking, etc.

Almost everything I've needed to work on has involved removing a behavior or bad habit.

It's been interesting to plot my wife's reaction to that over time:

  • The day I read The Rational Male (first MRP book I got my hands on), she said "You seem different all of a sudden."
  • About 1.5 months into working out, she complimented my body and new clothes.
  • 2 months in, I started getting big, blow-out shit tests, crying, yelling, etc....followed by finally breaking our 1.5-year dead bedroom. My wife suddenly wants to buy sex toys after more than a year of barely touching each other?
  • 3 months in, things seem to have quieted down, and I noticed smaller, more "every day" shit tests emerging. Sex also stops, all initiations shot down, and sex toys are still in the box.
  • Entering our 4th month, I can feel more tension in the air. Even less affection, a little more bitchy, definitely feeling the "distance" between us (since instead of trying to fill that distance with beta supplication, I'm simply not around or not giving a fuck)

The realization that this isn't about her, but about building myself a Totally Awesome Life (TM), has been a big one for me, and I feel better than ever about the whole process.

But I'm curious about the trajectory here....

What did your relationship look like? Was it continuous improvement, or were there big peaks and valleys? Did it get better, worse, better....or just one or other other?

Post Information
Title How did your wife react over time?
Author resolutions316
Upvotes 11
Comments 41
Date 10 February 2017 08:03 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Original Link
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[–]ArchwingerRed Beret25 points26 points  (3 children) | Copy

It's hard to judge the entirety of your marriage on a short, bulleted post on Reddit. My best guess is that you're going all push, no pull.

You are failing to reward good behavior. Your wife starts fucking you, wants to experiment even. At that point, you provide her with comfort. You make her feel validated and emotionally close to you. You want to encourage that behavior to continue, rather than fucking her, nodding once, then going on with the completely separate life you suddenly started to live.

You also sound like you're failing to lead. You're living your own separate life and trying to make that separate life awesome, but you don't seem to have planned a spot for her in that awesome life, other than being the person you fuck when you get home from living it. You're not assigning her tasks or instructing her regarding the role she's supposed to fill or showing her a picture of where you want to lead your family. She can't fill a support role when she doesn't even know what she's supporting or how to go about it. You have to lead her. Not just lead yourself and ignore her.

[–]resolutions316[S] 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

This is true. I've planned a lot of "me" time - mostly because I had none, and was overcorrecting - but I haven't planned anything for "us."

There's a lot in this reply and I'm trying to process. I certainly think I haven't led her at all - mostly because of my frustration with her in general. She's also not exactly "easily led," and I've often interpreted that as a reflection of my own low-status in her eyes.

Your reply certainly rings true...still mulling it over.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

you don't seem to have planned a spot for her in that awesome life

I struggle with this myself. I'd like to read more on that?

[–]A_RexRED KNIGHT12 points13 points  (2 children) | Copy

I skimmed your post history.

It looks like you're going Red Pill Rambo at warp speed. /u/Archwinger was spot on. You aren't leading her anywhere, and you don't seem to be providing any comfort or reinforcement whatsoever. So, wife sees Paul Pushover start acting like Rambo with a perma-boner out of nowhere, who doesn't seem to even like her very much except for dominant sex...and you're wondering why she's become distant? She's confused as fuck, and women hate feeling confused.

Even worse, you don't seem fun. At all. Being "alpha" or high value is not just being Super Macho Man. The PrizeTM is not only "hawt", masculine, and give zero fucks, he's also fun as hell to be with. Women live through their emotions. If you aren't fun in addition to being a strong leader, well, the feelz won't materialize, so tingles don't materialize.

[–]resolutions316[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

It's definitely true that I've been low on fun lately, very focused on just knocking down my own bad habits.

I certainly don't FEEL like I'm going RPR at all, just focusing on myself for the first time. I suppose that's all in context, however - I've been so beta for so long, maybe even some basic selfishness is a lot to swallow.

[–]stew70001 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm about to enter month 3 and I relate to your post a lot. One thing I've come to realize and get from this community is that I need to up the fun and build some connection with my wife. My wife has also been trying to figure out where she fits in my life now (it can't just be sex). I'd mix it up and just make life adventurous again. She wants you to take her on an exciting rollercoaster ride. Don't be predictable or boring (dinner and movie). My latest post, while laced with some vomit, ended with an enjoyable night with the wife which left her feeling like she's still important in my life.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I like to think of comfort not as supplication, but being magnanimous. She adds value to your life, so it's ok to reward her. You have to provide value to her. Eventually a virtuous cycle will ensue. All women are shitty sometimes, but you can be above it and give her the gift of stability.

[–]BobbyPeru3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

Like any other journey, there will be tough times and great times. The key is you keep doing the work. Sidebar, lifting, dread, MAP.

My gut feeling is you might be going a little too Rambo though. You can't remove too much comfort at one time, or it could go nuclear.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Does this guy sound like he's ego invested in this?

[–]BobbyPeru1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah but that's something he's going to have to figure out… Or not

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is textbook.

You're changing.

Nothing happens in the relationship because your wife doesn't believe/doesn't notice.

Then the, "you're selfish/an asshole/only care about yourself/only care about me for sex" shittests begin to see if she can easily bust this new frame you're building.

Then the uptick in sex - "lets see if the pussy still has all the power"

Oh, it doesn't? I'm shutting that down because I'm still not attracted to you and am confused at the changing dynamic.

"i don't think I like not being the queen bee anymore, I'm gonna sit this out for a while."

Keep going. She'll eventually fall into place. ( but read Archwinger's post too - being a captain someone wants to follow/submit to requires that every cruise not be a doom and gloom sufferfest.) Actually, she might not fall into place, but by the time that main event comes around, you should be invested enough in yourself that you'll realize continuing to drop time, effort, and attention into a sunk cost fallacy has no upsides and you'll be happy when it's over.

Don't go Rambo/zero to hero. This takes time. Work on you, but realize that you have to provide some comfort/tingles/beta. This is not TRP where you can just next. Scratch that, you can if you want, but recognizing the mess you're in is ALL your fault should be worth attempting to fix.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (15 children) | Copy

What exactly are you going to do differently when you get an answer?

[–]resolutions316[S] 1 point2 points  (14 children) | Copy

Mostly, I'm wondering if I'm pulling back too much on comfort-building in an attempt to cancel out past beta behaviors.

If the pattern I'm noticing is common, "Oh yeah, this is how this shit goes"-type deal, I don't need to pursue that further.

On the other hand, while I'm doing all this for me, making her feel shitty is not part of the plan. If that's on me, I want to make sure I own that and deal with it.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (12 children) | Copy

Calibrate based on the sex youre getting

[–]resolutions316[S] 0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy

I guess that's the issue - I'm not getting sex at all, so I'm withdrawing my "commitment," since that's what I have control over.

That seems to be souring the mood overall, which is fine with me if that's just part of the process and not the result of me being unrealistic, etc.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy

Youre valuing your assets, the discomfort is natural.

Just wait until. Her shaming language starts...

Bet youre called a narcissist at some point

[–]BobbyPeru2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Reminds me of the day my wife said "I don't want to be married to a bodybuilder."

I smiled.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Like its just going to happen...

[–]BobbyPeru1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Context: I'd made some big gains after years of plateau, and I walked in one day with my shirt off, and she just blurted it out. One of my first introductions to the hamster.

[–]sh0ckley1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

And I hope OP has read WISNIFG when then shaming language starts.

[–]resolutions316[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I have. Have used it a few times already. Working now on not being so obviously weird about it.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Also, something I wrote from way back at the begining.

In case you have issue with expectations.

[–]resolutions316[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

This is great - found your blog the other day and saved a ton of posts, but I probably wouldn't have gotten to this one in a while. I appreciate it.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

No worries. I would have forgotten a lot of my MAP had I not written it down.

Jack10 used to call it something for non autistic co dependants

[–]sh0ckley2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm 300 days in. The improvement has been consistent but yes there were minor setbacks and peaks and valleys. I agree with the sentiment in other comments that you might be Rambo-ing it too much.

An important question is how long were you beta? Career or otherwise? I realized that I had been beta since long before I got married. I got oneitis real bad at 25 years old and let my dick go limp.

So... I took the "1 month per year of marriage" formula and applied it as "1 month per year of beta-ness" which places me on approximately an 18 month path of actually earning my balls back.

Rebuilding is not fast and it's critical to know where you are. I would argue that not being conscious and reasonable with improvement efforts is the primary cause of Rambo-ness and it can backfire big time leading to impulsive behaviors with consequences.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy

I'm always amazed that people have stayed in relationships that have had no sex for a year plus.

My wife was telling me several of "our" (meaning her) friends haven't had sex for a year... Jesus.

That takes some serious denial and status quo mentality.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret9 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy

It takes a man who is so beaten down he give up completely and just says 'yes dear.' The woman is so repulsed that sex is out of the question. This is probably 1/3 of marriages today.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

This is probably 1/3 of marriages today.

Guarantee this is more than half of marriages 10 years out.

the guys I know at work, half look fat/sloppy. They make me look good and that is sad. Trust me, unless this town I live in is unique... these guys are not having sex more than a few times a year.

[–]SeamusAwl0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

these guys are not having sex more than a few times a year.

Yup. My wife would have rather given me a reluctant hand job or blow job over duty sex. But she still gave me duty sex a handful of times a year.

[–]SeamusAwl0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

mine wasn't sexless. It was just 3-4 times a year. If I got lucky, it was 5! I occasionally got BJs and handjobs from her.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

That's rough bro.

Did you initiate or just accept it?

I get initiating sucks if they are just lifeless starfish dried up on the beach...

[–]SeamusAwl0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

initiate and I would get a "i suppose you are due" or a "can't i just give you a bj instead?" She is better now and though it hasnt been long, I have been averaging 10-15 times a month with her initiating it some times.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

So which way have you gone? caveman and get yours, or get up, and say this isn't working for you?

[–]SeamusAwl0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Caveman. I came from a dead bedroom so I will have her each time i can.

[–]nooomaam1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'd offer you need read some of /u/thefamilyalpha 's blog under the idea that you need to figure out what life needs to look like, and then lead her there.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

As I improve my snowflake pulls away. It's been a rough road but the graph shows a steady divergence in my path and her attitudes towards me.

The shit tests have slowed...indifference grows.

Feminism is a monster, and shitty people abound. Mine grew up in a very feminist home. It's in her blood. She can't see past it and refuses to. The ship is on a clear course, but it's not her course. It's not her way. Fine.

Soon she can have her own way, her course.

To that end I have replaced her in many ways and I am having more fun then before. There is that moment when you decide she is not going to come along, but you can't see it clearly until you are a man of value. I am now Fucked on the regular, the way I want, enjoying life.

Ultimatecad once told me that he was a ship at sea. On course, underway. The woman in his life were the barnacles. They could and would come and go. Some stay longer then others.

Profound thing to think about.

[–]resolutions316[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

For me, it was a devastating case of oneitis combined with a strong sense of "if I just wait, she'll come around."

Hope, no matter how faint, can be a real motivator.

[–]rebbit_reddit1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Hope coupled with the sunk cost fallacy

[–]SeamusAwl0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

MRP since November.


How did your wife react to your MRP journey over time?

Somethings she loves about it. Others she doesn't. We are christians, so she wasn't to keen on me reading SGM (okay, she hated the fact I did). She says she is NAWALT, but the underlying RP framework still works the same on her as it has for others and their wives.

What did your relationship look like?

Ups and downs as the pill is still dissolving. So my frame isn't as strong as it should be and just like your wife... Mine got into it initially and was initiating frequently. But has stopped that and I have gotten rejections (which helps me strengthen my frame). My guess is that our wives were only hysterical bonding because we both changed and they noticed our SMV improvements. They were worried that we were going to use what we have here and split from them. So they threw sex at us to keep us interested in them.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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