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Do you like your wife?

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August 17, 2016
9 upvotes

I don't particularly like my wife. Her personality grates on me. She is overly boisterous and generally attention seeking. She lacks grace and tact. She works hard to be the center of attention and seeks approval of others. She breaks into song at awkward moments far too often and it comes across as wanting for attention. She steps on others in conversation, cutting them off and interjecting her own thoughts without a sense of good conversational flow. She is not particularly feminine. Not to mention that she doesn't cook for shit and rarely even tries.

All these things are quite a turn off for me. They are things that I could possibly bring her out of. I see how they are formed out of general insecurity, out of a lack of training and leadership. She developed these traits in an attempt to get the attention of her far too busy father, and they have carried over into adulthood.

Problem is, these traits annoy the fuck out of me. All else held equal, I feel pressure from myself and my own moral code to love her in spite of her flaws, and to help her overcome them. I have been on a consistent path of improvement over the last year, focusing on my flaws and intentionally fixing my shit. At the end of the day, I'm still annoyed by her.

I've been listening to Jacko Wilink's podcast a lot lately. He talks about extreme ownership, how a true leader takes responsibility for every situation, and comes under his subordinates, seeks out how to support and improve them. I can possibly train her in the areas of tact, teach her to be more secure in her self via affirmation, help her to end the attention seeking behavior, motivate her to be a better cook, but I won't be able to change her baseline personality. The little things that annoy me, like how she acts when excited, or her love of breaking out in song randomly, are things that are uniquely her, that I shouldn't expect to change solely to fit my own desires.

And there is the rub. Even if we could figure out her sexual anxiety, even if I lead her into greater levels of confidence so that she is less socially awkward, I still think that I would be annoyed by her basic personality.

I have a submitted post from my pre-MRP days that touches on how I don't think we're soulmates. I've come to realize that the concept of soulmates is dumb, but there is one aspect of the death of oneitis that sticks for me. Killing oneitis and accepting AWALT doesn't mean that all women are the same, or that you should be married to any random woman off the street. Yet at this point, that is the situation that I feel stuck in. I'm here now in this relationship that I have spent years trying to iron out, with a woman that I married out of complete betadom when I was far too immature to make such a decision about a woman who I have never really loved, trying to fight this battle because I don't want to be a quitter.

So, after my puking, I come to the question. Do you actually like your wife? Do you like her personality? Do you desire to make love to her whole being, not just her body? Are these even goals to aspire to?


Post Information
Title Do you like your wife?
Author hambley
Upvotes 9
Comments 19
Date 17 August 2016 01:04 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/207232
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/4y2y18/do_you_like_your_wife/
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Comments

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy

  • Do you actually like your wife?

Yes.

  • Do you like her personality?

Yes.

  • Do you desire to make love to her whole being, not just her body?

Yes.

  • Are these even goals to aspire to?

No.

Now For TFA Advice: Your goal should never be to like your wife. Your goal should be to like yourself and be a genuinely masculine dude. This in turn, will elicit the feminine nature of your wife and allow her to be that beauty who probably won't annoy you.

You mention the daddy issues, all girls have daddy issues and you're supposed to supplant the role of daddy. Either he wasn't there and she needs that role filled, he was there and was pathetic - show her a real man, or he was there and strong and she wanted to make him proud. You take on that role of being the man who keeps her in line as well as man who she wants to make proud.

My wife falls into the 'make daddy proud' category. He was there but she felt she never measured up - so be it. I filled the role and I tell her when I'm proud and she melts every time.

You seem to be on the cusp of recognizing that your wife is a reflection of you which is a good sign.

When it comes to her random singing and traits that are unique to her, don't burst her bubble. This isn't about making her into what you want, it's about getting her genuine self to be expressed. Obviously, reward good behavior and correct bad, but singing isn't bad behavior even if it is annoying to you, it's just her quirk.

Sometimes I fucking sing opera at the top of my lungs or I'll fucking break into dance while in traffic. My wife gets so embarrassed as everyone is looking at the dude busting a move in the Jeep, but that's me and it won't change and if she tried to get me to do that, I'd feel like I had to repress myself to fit her mold and fuck that.

If you don't let her express that genuine personality, she'll repress who she is and that's not what you want as a husband, man, or leader.

[–]CountpudyoolaMod / Red Beret4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes.

Did I a few years ago? : Not really.

Did I to begin with: Yes.

Something tells me you wouldn't have married her if you didn't to begin with.

You could also parallel how much I liked myself as well.

Now: Yes.

A few years ago: Not really.

To begin with : Yes.

There's going to be things you like , things you don't . Perspective adds weight to each.

A lot of your complaints seem to revolve around social dynamics and perception.

I've gotta be honest with how women interact in general with each other annoys me. Everything you wrote about her I could contribute to several female faces. The older I get the more I realize social functions are my favorite where the kids go off to play, the wives congregate somewhere to gossip and the guys go out to the garage to play darts/drink beer/ watch sports...you name it. So you adapt and the annoyances become a moot point.

Pre RP , I would have tripped over myself to always stay in the same room.

You see a lot of younger couples adopt the ALL TOGETHER ALL THE TIME model of gatherings. It ends up being a few witty guys, a lot of quiet guys or guys who get cut off, and a lot of hen play and clucking. So the guy dynamic just gets muted.

OR depending on the weight of the friendships:

There are a bunch of guys talking about guy stuff and bored looking women.

Mixed gatherings you end up having to talk about lowest common denominator stuff, and not always what you want to be talking about.

Activities still work well co-ed (corn hole, card games, beer pong...etc).

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret8 points9 points  (4 children) | Copy

I wrote something almost exactly like this shortly before I turned everything around completely.

My wife is a hyper critical, periodically bitchy, unpredictable, shit testing LAWYER. On the one hand she is smart, tries to play the role of a Godly woman, works hard, and loves the kids. On the other she uses that intelligence to nitpick and literally pick apart things I say. She takes great delight in correcting the "doctor" (always said with a sneer and often with a reminder that "your not a 'real' doctor"- don't know how many times I have to explain that "real" doctors write papers, not prescribe drugs).

I have had much, much, much more fun with buddies and even party girls back in college. She is boring and lame most of the time but I have to say the little bird still hits the fiercest roller coasters at the park so there is that.

Still, I guess I don't like her that much, actually.

I do, however, love her very much.

Your problem could be that you want your wife to be your friend and she isn't.

Your problem could also be lack of sex builds up intense resentment and anger in men. In most cases once she starts sexing you well those "irritating" behaviors suddenly seem "cute." Weird but true.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Your problem could also be lack of sex builds up intense resentment and anger in men. In most cases once she starts sexing you well those "irritating" behaviors suddenly seem "cute." Weird but true.

Definitely know this to be true. I have an old journal filled with doubts pre-marriage, but I was way too Nice Guy to listen/act on them. Sex-feelz are what sustained me for a number of years through the general doubt and frustration in my beta days. A trickle of starfish does weird things to a man. I am trying to assess the situation rationally right now, as there aren't any hormones surging. No kids, no mortgage, miniscule debt, so no real anchors.

Trying to assess whether it is worth it to even bother trying to right the ship. My Christian faith says yes, but pretty much every other aspect of me says no. I appreciate your story, and especially what you wrote in chap 12 of your book. I think that if there were kids in the picture, it'd be a different story, but I am leaning strongly toward growing some balls and leaving.

The idea that I can leave simply because I'm not happy is one that is hard for me. I keep waiting for the thermonuclear main event so I can leave in a rage, but that's bullshit. But leaving because I'm not haaaaaappy also seems like bullshit.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You leave because you aren't happy she cheated on you or you aren't happy because she's boring as fuck and can't stand to be around her. Either way, you are leaving because the situation does not satisfy you. Plain and simple people leave others because they aren't happy with them, whatever the trigger may be. Take a stand what do you want to do?

In perspective, I like my wife but she isn't my everything. Sometimes boring sometimes not. But there's enough to like about her for me and she has taken a liking to a lot of things I like. This happened when I started actually doing things I like instead of wallowing around trying to figure out things she'd like to do.

Before nuking a marriage, I'd suggest investing your time and effort in things you like irrespective of her. She may come along and become more interesting to you. She may not but you'll be in a better position to decide if you want her in your life.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Real doctors treat patients. PhD jack off poetic as to the philosophy of their craft.

Did I trigger you yet?

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

most cases once she starts sexing you well those "irritating" behaviors suddenly seem "cute."

I laugh my ass off. My wife is basically a dude so cute doesn't fit. I love the hyper critical, periodically bitchy, never pleased, above being interested, shit testing parts of my wife. They remind me of a bratty little girl, but...don't most Strong And Independent women follow the boring and lame paradigm?

The only behavior I dislike is the ice queen routine. It's too boring, too vanilla. Problem is, I don't really want to fuck her when this happens. I'm probably being a faggot. Guess I'll just have to tease her.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

I remember your posts over the last few months.

Here are the most important questions that I have for you:

  • Do you like yourself?

  • What are you really doing to improve yourself, and your frame?

  • Why aren't you getting more progress from your efforts?

For me, the rest of your post in mental masturbation. You are looking outside yourself, again, for the answers that elude you.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Do you like yourself?

That's a hard one. I like who I am becoming, but I have more work to do.

• What are you really doing to improve yourself, and your frame?

Lifting, reading, re-reading, dieting (down 35lbs in 6 months, abs showing for the first time ever), hanging out with friends multiple times a week in groups/situations that are intentional about growth as men, have stopped watching TV more than 1 night a week, haven't looked at porn in 3+ weeks and have no plans to start again, have generally gotten busier and more active. Been getting IOIs from random chicks, I need to start approaching to help build frame.

• Why aren't you getting more progress from your efforts?

The easy answer is that my wife is a bit batshit, has pretty extreme anxiety in regards to sex. It developed over years, so it isn't going to go away overnight. I've been working with her on it as much as I can, but there is only so much I can do when it is a mental health issue for her.

For me, the rest of your post in mental masturbation. You are looking outside yourself, again, for the answers that elude you.

Truth, though at least part of me is getting wanked off. Smh.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I like who I am becoming, but I have more work to do.

this answer, IS your answer.

Your wife is not your answer.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I read your submissions over the past year. Looks like you were pressured into marriage because of religious beliefs. Man, I feel for you more than you know. My wife can be a genuinely awesome person that people are drawn to. The fact that she's shitty to me is something I have to work on.

If I were in your shoes, I would bolt before you knock her up and then you'll really be fucked. I don't know if it's a religious guilt thing or not, but you've been at this for a year and you still hate your wife. Life is short man, if you think you've improved yourself and you still hate her, do what you need to do

[–]Boesman120 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

My wife can be a genuinely awesome person that people are drawn to. The fact that she's shitty to me is something I have to work on.

Wouldn't it have been nice if there was a place where they take guys alone before marriage and tell them this.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

iI would gather you have not done the research to next her with divorce rape have you ?

Did you enroll in etiquette classes and take a few courses in finishing school ? Look in the mirror and own your shit. The gracious high value gent finds all that is good and embelleshes upon that.

Quit bitching and keep working toward your improvement. True IDGAF level, reviews a regularly reviewed added value to ones life. You my friend are stuck in oneitis gear

[–]redearththeory1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Have you told her that her attention seeking behavior is annoying and inappropriate?

Her attention seeking behavior comes from a deep fear of worthlessness, inferiority and rejection. You can't fix that, only she can. But you can use it to drive her attraction towards you. Reject her a bit. Ransom approval to her. Bet that's what her dad did. You've probably been trying to help her by giving her all the approval she wants and telling her that you unconditionally accept her. But that doesn't fix anything. The thing that she doesn't get is that external approval will never fix an internal worthlessness problem. But you giving her tons of approval when no one else does just makes her think you're the only person lower value than she is. So make your approval conditional, like a normal person. Like stage 4 dread. Condition her by rewarding good behavior and punishing bad.

[–]The_Litz1 point2 points  (15 children) | Copy

From your post I gather you are not getting banged regularly.

I am looking forward to the field report where she starts breaking out into song after/during being banged by you.

How will you feel then?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (14 children) | Copy

From your post I gather you are not getting banged regularly

You can say that again. It has been far too long since sex has been on the table. She has pretty extreme anxiety regarding sex that started to present about a year into marriage and went full blown within 3 years. Reconciling the lack of sex with MRP theory of self improvement, and the stuff that u/thefamilyalpha preaches (like in his post here) causes a lot of cognitive dissonance for me. I have been improving myself, and my wife has been inspired to improve herself (lost 4 pant sizes, tags along to the gym, started lifting with me, etc), but the debilitating anxiety is still there.

My hamster is looking for a way to throw in the towel and trade her for a less defunct model, but the call of masculinity is to help her improve. A big part of me feels like a martyr in doing so.



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