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Two points on loneliness, family, and evolutionary biology : "Suicide rates for [..] older guys have been going up for a long time[...] Younger guys can learn game and get laid (the way is hard but it can be done), while older guys without families don’t have that source of meaning."

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June 17, 2019
147 upvotes
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Title Two points on loneliness, family, and evolutionary biology : "Suicide rates for [..] older guys have been going up for a long time[...] Younger guys can learn game and get laid (the way is hard but it can be done), while older guys without families don’t have that source of meaning."
Author redpillschool
Upvotes 147
Comments 87
Date 17 June 2019 03:03 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/242382
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/c1ol18/two_points_on_loneliness_family_and_evolutionary/
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Comments

[–]MRP50 1 points [recovered]  (20 children) | Copy

Getting laid is a release, not a source of meaning.

Get meaning from your work, your hobbies, your pets...

[–]sea_weasel29 points30 points  (0 children) | Copy

I interpreted it as more "More successful in having sexual partners, therefore making life much more bearable."

Plus, if you're banging bitches you have a social circle of some kind, hopefully in addition with some good friends or male family members.

[–]Endorsed ContributorAuvergnat14 points15 points  (4 children) | Copy

It’s two separate mental modules.

On one side you’ve got this deep, constant lust for sex, seeking youth, beauty and variety. This is an urge that is fundamental and you can’t ignore it. If you don’t get laid, your brain answers with lowering your self-esteem. It’s an alarm signal to put your attention on this issue ASAP. Good luck trying to focus on anything else but pussy when you don’t get it.

On the other side you’ve got this deep longing for purpose, meaning, success. That is also an urge, perhaps less physical and more mental. The purpose of this one is to get you to climb the local hierarchy so you get chosen by the female of our species, though you don’t have to fulfill it for this, just like you can enjoy cooking and eating good meals for another reason that just life sustenance.

The need for pussy and the need for direction are two different (although interacting, partly-dependent, partly-overlapping) urges. Fulfilling both is important for your mental health. I recommend your give attention to both.

[–]_do_not_read_this_3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

The need for pussy and the need for direction are two different (although interacting, partly-dependent, partly-overlapping) urges. Fulfilling both is important for your mental health. I recommend your give attention to both.

The book I'm writing about being married to chronically ill spouse, I just wrote this chapter in the last week. It's all about fucking: if you're not fucking regularly, it affects your whole relationship, your whole life. It's a base-line indicator of the health of the relationship, while at the same time, if you're not fucking regularly it affects your social and professional life too.

How often have you met someone who is frustrated or angry at some nonsense and you've said to yourself or your buddy, "He needs to get laid"? There's truth in the jest.

Fucking is more of a base need, like food and shelter. As you note, it's good for mental health, but also satisfies that need deep in your gut for sexual release.

Once that's taken care of, one can focus on the higher needs of career, family, social life, and yes, mission.

[–]TolerantLeft0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You know, I always thought it was stupid that sex was on the physiological needs level in Maslow's hierarchy, but this kind of makes sense.

[–]Vikingcel1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is why the 'don't focus on women' meme is, to be frank, plain stupid.

It's hard to do anything when all that's on your mind is pussy and there just isn't a turn off switch to flip before you go to work or pursue your hobbies.

[–]5Imperator_Red1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

B-b-b-b-but duh mgtowssss don’t need no pussy to lead a fulfilling life!

[–]royal238 points9 points  (7 children) | Copy

Or a family, if you’re into that & get a pre-nup

[–]MRP50 1 points [recovered]  (6 children) | Copy

Aye.

Still risky though...prenup or not...

[–]royal2315 points16 points  (5 children) | Copy

Life is risk man. Can’t let that keep you in bed all day.

[–]MRP50 1 points [recovered]  (4 children) | Copy

SE Asia, my friend.

Women respect, even revere a good man.

Western women are broken and entitled.

Hard pass. I did my time.

[–]royal235 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

That’s your experience and I wish you the best in the future.

[–]tunsku 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy

I would rather not miscegenate.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

Get meaning from your work

That's gonna be a no for me dawg

[–]lapeparoja7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

I used to say that, now I regret to not having invested more time on my work/career. The trick it is that it has to be something you care about, not some middle management position at Generic Corp. But to be among the elite in your profession of choice is a great feeling and very fullfilling. You must pay the price though.

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillcad1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I recall learning a few TRP tricks and being quite consumed with getting laid. Had some time to make up for.

There is no overarching noble goal of these tactics. If you thought there was, you were mistaken

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 35 points36 points  (27 children) | Copy

One of the hottest points of debate on TRP is over which long-term goals would find us the most personal happiness / fulfillment. While I don't think this question is settled in any way, I know where I've personally been leaning on the issue and I think there's something wise to consider here- spinning plates isn't really a good for long-term happiness.

It precludes child rearing (at least in a conventional way), it depends on you having the energy to continue gaming well into your later years, and it depends on you gaining the same value from it year after year.

Don't get me wrong, spinning plates and learning the foundations of game are paramount to living a full, realized life. You cannot move on to bigger goals if you don't have the foundation underneath you. (i.e. knowing how to interact with women, learning abundance mentality, knowing how not to get yourself stuck in LTR shit test traps, etc)

[–]trancedj9 points10 points  (16 children) | Copy

You mention spinning plates might not be the best long-term game. Curious to know your personal plan on your own path.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 24 points25 points  (15 children) | Copy

I think there's value in a LTR if you find a woman that meets your criteria - and that's an important caveat... too many men will sacrifice values and standards because they're thirsty as fuck. You cannot enter into a LTR until you know first how to operate in the sexual marketplace, and you know your own value in it. Or the woman will eventually walk all over you.

I also am investing time and energy into learning / deciding the best path for raising children in this clown world of ours. I don't have answers yet but I plan to update the community with what I've found and bounce ideas off others in my #raisingkids series of posts.

[–]trancedj16 points17 points  (8 children) | Copy

Right on. I’m consider myself “lucky” in some regards when it comes to children. I already have 2. And I didn’t get divorced raped like most men. I also decided year’s ago no more kiddos and got a vasectomy. Only real concern now is false allegations and std’s. (recently beat a false allegation).

But I totally get your point. After a while the game becomes “old hat” and not nearly as fun.

I’m in my early 40’s and never plan to marry or cohabitate with a woman ever again. If that makes me mgtow then I’ll wear that tag proudly.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 12 points13 points  (4 children) | Copy

I consider that one of the legitimate reasons to be MGTOW, frankly.

[–]trancedj12 points13 points  (2 children) | Copy

Yeah, dudes on that sub often get a bad wrap. I’m sure some of them just don’t have the discipline or drive to improve themselves. But there’s a metric fuck ton of guys over there who could be Chads or Tyrone’s but they just don’t see the risks being worth the reward. To each his own, I can’t hate on either sub. I still play the dating game, at least for now anyway.

I feel for men who would like to be a father someday. The best advice I can give for young men looking to have children is try your best to get to a point in life where if you seriously lost half your shit and are comfortable with seeing your children half-time then use what you’ve learned from TRP, vet the woman HARD, and take your chances.

I’m at a point where kids, money, and career are locked down. I make a decent living and I’m content. And I nearly lost it all to some woman’s BS allegations. Had I not had TWO red-pilled bosses and a strong union I’d be just another homeless vet on the street.

[–]SalporinRP1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

That sub is shit. Just a bunch of cringy fb memes and a bunch of rationalizing for being lazy pieces of shit. Yes false rape allegations are a problem but the way they speak of it you'd think it happens to a million men a year.

Their solutions to the perils of modern sexual relations is to either be a celibate or pay hookers. Wow what a life to live.

[–]trancedj1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You forgot dolls. They do enjoy their dolls. Talk about cringe.

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillcad1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

MGTOWBTDT

MenGoingTheirOwnWayBeenThereDoneThat

[–]rnsbrum1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Thats the same path I wanna take. I wanna have a couple of kids with a gorgeous young woman, and then keep living my own awesome life.

Just curious, but does she try to poison the brains of your children, making them hate you?

[–]trancedj6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Does a bear shit in the woods and wipe his ass with a rabbit?

But in all seriousness, the short answer is yes, she does attempt to brain wash my kids into believing I’m the problem in their life. I don’t believe she does it consciously, but it’s a never-ending battle that I fight every time they spend time with me. I don’t think you can escape that, although it could definitely be worse in my case.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

I mean the plan is to find a woman who wouldn't to start.

[–]5Imperator_Red4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I also am investing time and energy into learning / deciding the best path for raising children in this clown world of ours. I don't have answers yet but I plan to update the community with what I've found and bounce ideas off others in my #raisingkids series of posts.

Red pill has figured out pretty much everything but this. If we can crack that egg then the theory is complete.

[–]greenlittleman1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Best thing long term is to have LTR, while still fucking other women when you want someone new.

[–]saveTheFirstWorld3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

A TRP mod endorsing families. How times have changed

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

spinning plates and learning the foundations of game are paramount to living a full, realized life.

Do you think wanting kids is not an okay goal?

[–]Shady-mofo0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Wtf right I don’t even know this place anymore

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Do you think wanting kids is not an okay goal?

[–]Endorsed ContributorThotwrecker9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

Long-term happiness isn't necessarily the best goal to chase. I don't think happiness-chasing has ever been what produced or delivered the durable feeling of real happiness. I don't even think men / "the masculine" even wants to exist in a state of happiness (in a similar way to how women don't really want to be happy, they want to be unhappy and then happy and then unhappy and then happy).

Spinning plates is great for you if you find it engaging -- the key being, you're engaged with a challenging pursuit that brings you frustration and happiness and triumph and adrenaline. You're not chasing happiness at this point, and in fact, you may not even be happy in the moment. But it's brought me tremendous happiness over the years because I actually did something extremely challenging for who I was, and it brought a shit ton of lessons and I could palpably feel myself changing and becoming something better.

From watching a lot of baby boomers retire and be miserable, I think the most important thing is to be engaged. Deeply and passionately and completely engaged. Spinning plates does wonders for those of us who are completely and utterly engaged by it and the process of self-improvement that it demands. Eventually, it is not as engaging, because it's not challenging, and you know you're not really evolving or being changed by it anymore. Back to the baby boomers, they lost things that didn't necessarily bring happiness (ie, their work) and they gained things that should bring more happiness (more time at home with their wives, kids, grandkids). But they are less happy, not more, because they lost engagement -- even engagement with something that wasn't fundamentally a happy thing.

The answer for me is basically whatever you do, use your self-knowledge that you gained spinning plates to answer the critical question -- what will I actually be engaged with? Am I going to take on the challenges full heartedly and try to crack and optimize the problem of how do I be a respected leader of a dad and husband in 2020s America? Will I work at this like I worked at getting thot pussy? If yes, then GO FOR IT, and happiness might be the reward.

[–]_do_not_read_this_4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Long-term happiness isn't necessarily the best goal to chase

If you look at some of the older religions like Buddhism, "happiness" is not the goal during life, nor the end game. For Buddhists and yogis, "equanimity" is recognized as the path to take during life; and merely rejoining the universe and losing ones ego as the goal for the after-life.

Reason being, if you're always searching for "happiness" you generally get disappointed ("If only I had [something something] I'd be happy" and then you get [something something] and still aren't happy).

So you wind up cycling between setting a goal for happiness, achieving that goal, temporary happiness at achieving that goal, then back down into disappointment because that goal didn't make you happy, setting a new goal for happiness ...

[–]red_matrix12 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy

Spinning plates is a goal, once you have reached it the emptiness starts creeping in, and you try to fill that hole with plates and sex until it stops working....then you drop the plates, and stop with game because it isn’t fulfilling, you’re still empty inside and you know sex isn’t the answer. But when you drop the plates and game, all you really have left is the gym and you job (which you likely hate). The Red Pill loves to tell guys to get a hobby to be fulfilled, but to me that’s just empty advice. There’s a big piece of TRP that still isn’t being addressed.

[–]Cheeseking1112 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

I disagree. TRP tells people to find a mission and make that your main focus.

Pursuing hobbies can be a way to find your mission. e.g. practicing dancing as a hobby initially and then over time you realize it is a passion and you set a mission or goal to be a champion dancer.

Focusing on being a dancer will over time have positive side effects especially in picking up women because there are quite a lot of high caliber woman attracted to dancers and if you are a champion dancer you will get the best of those women.

Not to mention you will network with other dancers and build up a social network of people who are all involved in the same passion which will open up other opportunities outside of just dancing e.g. TV performances.

[–]Otter_Limits2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

spinning plates and learning the foundation of game are paramount to living a full, realized life

According to whom? Wouldn’t it make more sense to build your life up and let the women come into it? I mean, if/when you eventually have a woman interested in you (or not), you’ve already got an expansive repertoire of skills and assets AND you’re self-reliant. Isn’t that the epitome of an alpha male, a man that can get sh*t done and has it together? Because getting a woman first and trying to find a purpose second—which usually entails begging and pleading with her that you are actually “good for it” and have plans—sounds like the apex of blue pill behavior, according to many posts in this forum.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'll put it this way, if you don't have the option, is it a choice?

[–]Otter_Limits4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

If by “choice” you mean “is it immediately within your power, either right now or in the near-future, to choose from a plethora of women, and among that plethora, who you want to have sex with?”, then answer is usually no. The average man doesn’t have the resources to manage a harem or group of plates, but nor do I think he would want to.

Think about it: the point of plates is to leisurely choose your mating partner at a moment’s notice, but you have to already have been in a position to shut down all the sh t tests from all the women you are getting involved with, before that option presents itself. The problem is that sh t test opportunities increase exponentially the more women you have access to; you’re not simply copy and pasting the same woman multiple times and thus only dealing with one set of issues, you’re adding completely different individuals to the good, complete with whatever baggage they may come with. At some point, the stress of dealing with the sum total of all those women’s collective arguments and nagging becomes it own nuisance.

and that’s after we address the other issue: cost. Again, every new woman added to the group increases the total expenses of the group proportionally, especially if some of the women make more demands than others more consistently and frequently. At some point, having only one women or no women at all is better than dealing with 10 instances of bullsh*t.

All of this is assuming that your frame is basically impenetrable and no man alive can deal with all of the work stress on top of all of the female stress. Something has to give and women are not a necessity, but work is.

[–]BuzzLightGear321 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy

I think there's something wise to consider here- spinning plates isn't really a good for long-term happiness.

Isn't not advised to be happy first before you involve yourself with women? Should women be the source of your happiness or should it be internally sourced?

[–]Pooddit0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I use women as a booster. The things that a man should be working on in himself are also the things that women like in men. They will signal that you're doing the right thing, and sometimes you should treat yo self to a woman for your hard work.

[–]Random Xpat Rantingsxsplat1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

booster

Well said.

I prefer the integrated approach as well. It's not a matter of first be an island onto yourself before you can interconnect. We are born interconnected. It's a matter of pruning and improving the connections.

Women are an integral part of the process of becoming better with women.

On the other hand, monk mode can be interesting and good. I used to do things like live in isolated mountain forests and meditate all day, and I think that overall helped me to be more social, as paradoxical as that might sound.

But the idea of women as a booster is really spot on. There are whole traditions of mindfullness/awareness/compassion that talk of the essential value of using women as a booster.

[–]_do_not_read_this_21 points22 points  (11 children) | Copy

Middle aged white guys have always been (IIRC) in the second highest bracket for suicides, after teens. Dentists and doctors, surprisingly at the top.

I spent almost 20 years in a marriage with a chronically ill spouse, working at a job and profession that didn't want me to work in it, living in a city that didn't want me to live there.

I never felt suicidal, but I often felt an absolute loneliness at having no purpose, no intimacy, no real "family" (my own family being off the wall nuts), no reason for getting out of bed in the morning.

I turned it around, but I know many of my friends my age who are satisfied to set the dial at "6" and live out their lives with their 9-5, two weeks off every year, and sex once a month whether they need it or not.

while older guys without families don’t have that source of meaning.

I've created meaning by living my life doing what I want for my own bottom-line happiness; my mission (writing a book on being married to a chronically ill spouse, for others in a similar circumstance; and also teaching yoga); and realationships. I don't have "family" but I have people in my life to take up that role, if and when I need it.

That's much better than trying to find one person - "the one" - who can fit all my needs in one package. That person doesn't exist.

[–]Proto_Sigma9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

Doctors are surrounded by injury, sickness and death and in the cases of hospitals or early in their careers they often work long, irregular hours and have fucked sleep schedules, detracting from their health, mental stability and overall quality of life. It doesn’t surprise me at all.

[–]askmrcia3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy

Dentists and doctors, surprisingly at the top.

Probably off topic, but how? These professions have the highest income. I'm guessing it's related to being over worked?

[–]RedditArgument15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy

One of my plates is a doc. Depending on the type of doctor you can be working 11 hour days for your entire life. Some of the organizations she's involved in result in some days waking up at 7 and not getting done with work related activities til 10-11 pm. Med school costs money and not all of them are paid like we think they are. It's a stressful job and if you don't love it, I could easily see how it could become really dark considering the basically lifelong commitment of the profession.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

I should’ve been a dentist, they do better than doctors because of how fucked the healthcare system is. My dentist owns his own building, works 4 days a week, has residential tenants on 2nd floor, and a commercial tenant next to him. I think he closes his office for his vacation which is 2 months a year.

[–]boolDozer8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

I've heard with dentists the big reason is that their job essentially includes creating pain for their patients; pulling teeth, surgeries, people hate going in there, stuff like that. Wears you down after a while I guess.

No idea if that's actually why, but I always heard that when I was younger from my friend's dad (dentist who ironically did not kill himself yet)

[–]_do_not_read_this_5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don't know but I heard this years ago, and just looked it up again and it's still true.

Also, there's more to life than money. Look at Anthony Bourdain, I'm sure he boucoup dinero, and yet he killed himself.

[–]basebool5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Can't speak on dentists, but my brother is a doctor. Overworking is one problem, but it's shift work on crack. Basically you must be free any time, any day of the week.

He is also a new doctor so it's possible more senior members get more flexible options. But yea, working 24 hour shifts might contribute to that stat.

[–]Endorsed ContributorThotwrecker4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Few reasons -- shift work & perma on call is crazily bad for your mental health, and combine that with a high stress job, you are basically set up to be alienated from your family. It takes a toll on your physical health too - that's why a lot of docs don't practice what they preach. It's not just overwork, it's the nature of the work and the irregular schedule, which forces you to sort of remain disengaged and desynced from your family.

The money is what it is, but a lot of these guys have lifestyle escalation driven by a wife who's all to eager to have a high status lifestyle. A high salary goes real quick when your wife decides you guys have to landscape the backyard for a better aesthetic when you host your patio parties.

[–]ZachMeadows0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I spent almost 20 years in a marriage with a chronically ill spouse, working at a job and profession that didn't want me to work in it, living in a city that didn't want me to live there.

I fear that's going to be my future minus the marriage.

I often felt an absolute loneliness at having no purpose, no intimacy, no real "family"

Why do you think that ? I go out and meet lots of nice people but that doesn't go further. We hang out, have a few drinks and laughs, and then we part ways. In the end, I don't have that many people around me.

[–]_do_not_read_this_4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

In the end, we all have to make the final journey for ourselves. The question is what will your attitude be about it? For years, due to the bad marriage, deteriorating family situation with my own family, failing career due to the bad marriage, my depression and spiral was just a big cycle feeding into itself. I was alone, and those who should have been there to help me (family, wife) either abandoned me because who wants to associate with a failure; or apparently just didn't care about me. Spiral.

Once I realized the true nature of the situation, I was able to react, plan, get out (you'll have to read the book for that ...) and strive towards the goals I set for myself.

I've turned it around, sort of, and these days while I spend a lot of time "alone" I rarely feel "lonely" (that feeling you get deep in your gut) because "alone" is my new normal. Also TRP has helped me recognize the true nature of intimate relationships with women, so I've stopped looking for one woman to fill all my inter-sexual needs. Once I got rid of that expectation, I also got rid of the concomittent disappointment that came with finding "the one" then being disappointed down the road because there's no such thing as "the one."

This also applies to friendships. Some friends are great to go out drinking with, but you wouldn't invite them for a three hour hike. If you want to do a three hour hike, you invite those friends.

Women are the same way. Some women in my life are great for one thing, but if I'm in the mood for something else, I invite a woman who fits that activity. I have many people "around" me but if I let them deeper into my life, I don't put any expectations that they'll respect me, care for me, help me if I need it. No expectations means no disappointment when those expectations fail to come true.

[–]YamahaRD3500 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

stop calling me white im fuckkin italian and norwegian

[–]JustWanderful10 points11 points  (5 children) | Copy

Suicide rates for older guys have been going up for a long time. . .

Yes, 'kinless' older adults are a large part of the suicide paradigm, but an equally large part is that today's men have become much more self reliant, or 'self-service' individuals.

From restaurants to gas stations to grocery stores to 'everything under the sun' how-to videos on YouTube, society has moved from a shared service model to everyone becoming a compartmentalized, self-service individual.

As an older guy, not only was I raised to take care of myself in the traditional rolls like working steady, standing up for myself, and mechanical knowledge & vehicle maintenance, but as society progressed, I also learned to be much more self sufficient in my everyday existence, or a 'self-service' person.

I work, clean and maintain my own house, am a very good cook, control my social life, make all my financial decisions as well as all the important decisions concerning me and my life.

I don't plan on turning control over the end of my life to someone else, a hospital or mother nature. As someone raised to be a self-service person, barring some unforeseen accident/tragedy (stroke, heart attack, etc.), when I feel that it's time, I'll take care of that myself also.

[–]tekn0_0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

You know I would appreciate some guidelines from you with regard to what you think could have prevented those suicides for older men out there. Do you think it’s cuz you have taken happiness in your own hands? Why would an older man commit suicide?

[–]JustWanderful2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

As you age, your perspective on life changes. A guy is in his 60's or 70's has a whole different perspective on life than a guy in his 20's 30's or 40's. His days of setting the world on fire are behind him. And once retired, for many men, their purpose for living is gone. Combine that with the decline in health that old age brings and many guys will opt to check out.

Now, married guys with grown kids and grand kids are less likely to check out since they're more concerned with how that will affect the wife and family.

But the the single/divorced guy who has been self sufficient all his life will not want to give up that independence in the end. He's more likely to take matters into his own hands, on his own terms. That comes with being a self sufficient man.

What's not discussed in the article is the formerly middle class working 40 something year old guy who's wife divorced him, turned the kids against him and now takes 2/3 of his paycheck every week, leaving him living in a cheap apartment on the bad side of town. He sees nothing but pain and heartache down the road. Guys in this circumstance opt out more frequently than society lets on.

The main issue here is: Men today have become a disposable resource. Whether it's with women or companies, you're a human resource that can be disposed of in the blink of an eye. And as we become more and more a disposable society, especially when it comes to men, I think the suicide rate for older men is going to increase.

[–]a7000-a1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Do you think it’s cuz you have taken happiness in your own hands? Why would an older man commit suicide?

Because his life feels lonely and existentially pointless.

[–]veni_vidi_reddit23 points24 points  (13 children) | Copy

For all the granpas lurking around for their black pills:

I was a pretty bad blue pill case well into early 30s. Still learning game now at 35. What else am I going to do? Get a fucking cat? Fuck that.

You're not too old to do this shit until you are literally too old to do this shit.

[–]1scissor_me_timbers0021 points22 points  (9 children) | Copy

30s isn’t even old dude. I think they’re talking like 50s and up.

[–]veni_vidi_reddit13 points14 points  (5 children) | Copy

Yeah, for sure. But I know that browsing this forum in your mid-30s+ can lead you to think you've missed your expiry date. A lot of young buckos here :)

[–]1scissor_me_timbers0012 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

Oh I can imagine. I’m late 20s and fucking furious.

[–]KinkysMT11 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy

Fuck those kids bro. I'm 32 and pimping 18-26yo girls like never before in my life. 30 is the new 20 for men (if you don't let yourself go).

[–]AnonUser10051 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

im 20 and a bit of jealous of 30+ year old guys. you got the money, the time and the status, so from my perspective you are in the perfect timespot to practice TRP. The only thing that keeps you from success and happiness is the bullshit you tell yourself

[–]KinkysMT0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The only thing that keeps you from success and happiness is the bullshit you tell yourself.

Exactly. I don't showoff any money and have no "status". Most of the time you just need to be centered with yourself and have good game. Come to Europe my friend.

I think also the basic age difference plays a role. Most of the time girls go for older guys just because.

[–]PS2Errol3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Men really peak nearer to 40 anyway. You can easily be stronger and fitter at 40 than you were at 20.

[–]dkirkpatr3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

Bull Shit maybe 70's and up

[–]throwlaca2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Bull Shit maybe 70's and up

I have to agree with this one. Johny Deep and Brad Pit are 50. They dont look like a grandpa yet. Yes you can look like shit at 60, but if you take care of yourself you can pull it off.

[–]1scissor_me_timbers000 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Ehhhh, both those guys are looking well past their peak tho man. Yeah they’re not grandpa yet, but they don’t look great either. Granted, they both apparently booze and probably neither is on TRT. If you take your health and longevity seriously I think you could still pull young tail in early 50s probably. I get the feeling both those guys have already had decades of fine ass so they are kinda letting themselves go a bit. But dude, they’re clearly both not looking too great anymore.

[–]_do_not_read_this_6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

A woman who I met who worked at a nursing home told me once that the codgers were still up to fucking every chance they got - Go Viagra!

[–]veni_vidi_reddit6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

I will do my damn best to die "In my own bed, with a belly full of wine and a maiden's mouth around my cock, at the age of eighty,"

[–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire26 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

You know what's lonely?

Creating a false personality just to fit in with other people just so you can be around people and feel like you fit in.

Going to mass spectator events where you are surrounded by people, but nobody really reacts in a meaningful way.

Going to events where everyone is maintaining appearances because of some expectations that appeared from somewhere, maybe the mass media.

Supporting a family that doesn't appreciate you, ridicules you, hates you, manipulates you, or otherwise uses you. Ditto "friends."

Life is a crapshoot with regards to people and relationships. Sure, you can work on your social skills and self improve, but there is still a lot of luck involved. You can individually become better, but then, well, you might THREATEN other people just by existing!

If you can derive meaning and enjoyment from ANY experience, no matter how psychologically painful, then you have discovered a very important secret to survival and enjoyment of life.

[–]kylerosa215 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

The older guys with families can find meaning through some source of work they can build. I think of Jocko Willink in this case. He was a Navy SEAL who saw some crazy shit while deployed. Now he has a leadership building company that works with large corporations and has a best-selling book.

Top comment said it already, but the meaning is found through what goals you develop for yourself and your progress towards them.

[–]DancesWithPugs4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Older guys do fine provided they actually do the work required. It's older women that have less options.

[–]zurow 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy

Older guy here. I did the blue pill route and got married in my late 20s thinking my single life was over and that it was time to settle down. Had one son but the marriage was over by his sixth birthday. The red pill actually hit me upside the head when our babysitters (17-21 age group) would flirt with me and call or text for non babysitting purposes. So after my divorce I stepped it up in the gym and never looked back. That was 13 years ago. I never banged any of the babysitters, but it did give me confidence that I could still pull much younger women. And I have the best of both worlds because my son, now in college, continues to give me a greater purpose than just my gym routine and having younger girlfriends. If I were in my 20s today and know what I know now I don’t think I’d ever get married, but would figure out a way to be a father.

[–]ThinSpiritual0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

> If I were in my 20s today and know what I know now I don’t think I’d ever get married, but would figure out a way to be a father.

1- Get married to have a child then divorce.

2- Get someone pregnant without marriage.

Whichever option I pick I expect that I'd still have to endure a few years of emotional shit storm?

[–]ThinSpiritual2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

This has been a question that's always on my mind too and I don't have an answer for it.

I do think that wealth and financial capabilities play a big part. Often times, it's not that one doesn't prefer to have a family, but that it is not financially feasible. I'm 33 and I find it hard to find a partner that has the right qualities to start a family with me. I'm better off living alone, spending $$ to do all the things I want and travel instead of planning for my child's education. Would I act differently if I'm already a millionaire? Maybe. I don't know the answer to it really.

When I look at my father and think about what he has done for his family when he was at my age, he had a lot more responsibilities on his shoulders. I honestly can't do what he did. Am I a happier man though? I think so, I think at least I'm a lot more relaxed vs. he was living the grind. The challenge for me is to plan and visualize life in the 40s and 50s and how I should prepare for it.

Last Summer I visited my grandparents and caught a glimpse of life at the later stage. My grandpa is in a wheelchair and requires daily care. To make things worse, his temperament nosedived, he became angry at the world and life in general. My grandma is the biggest victim. She cried once, saying she wanna get the fuck out and go travel to different cities while she still can walk, but she can't and her life is reduced to a small area, pushing that wheelchair every day. This is not to criticize any of them, life hit them both with an airplane. My parents have migrated to a different country so they are not with my grandparents. My uncle lives in the same city but he has his own family to deal with on a daily basis. I also have an aunt, she's divorced twice and a single mother.

So yeah, my grandparents had children but now they are 80+ and they are alone and bitter. I started asking myself the same question too, wtf do I wanna do when I'm 80 when my children have all left me to focus on their own life and family?

Maybe it's true, we come alone and we die alone.

EDIT: This is a depressing post. Maybe TRP isn't the answer.

[–]Irtotallynotrobot1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

If you are still capable of having children, you are still capable of picking up a young woman to start a family with. A key tactic in the feminine imperative is to prevent peak value men from understanding that their reproductive lives are evergreen, the goal is to create a rush to pick up a post wall "age appropriate" woman.

The truth is that the life of perfect contentment for a man involves, in part, starting a family at the time when he is in peak range with a woman of similar value and continuing to game other women thereafter without fallout. I believe this is something we can strive for if we so choose. If these other suicidal men realized this possibility, perhaps they would reconsider.

[–]throwlaca0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

A key tactic in the feminine imperative is to prevent peak value men from understanding that their reproductive lives are evergreen, the goal is to create a rush to pick up a post wall "age appropriate" woman.

So True!! Woman always keep saying men are too old for this, too old for that. Women LOVE men in their 50s, they are fertile and have money. They wont tell you, but women fuck old men all the time. How I know? Im getting old (40s) and fuck twice more girls than in my 20s.

[–]Irtotallynotrobot0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Ah! Nice! Thanks for confirming. I'm much younger and really looking forward to it

[–]jewishsupremacist881 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

having kids is way too expensive these days. it sucks, big time.

[–]sevbanan0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You see one of the problems of individualism.Under collectivism your tied to the group to the purpose of everyone so that one stops your personal threshold to grow but you got people around you. Just my 2cents

[–]shetoldmeto800 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

well that's it then, I am "old(ish)" and I feel my health isn't as good as it used to be a couple years ago despite best efforts.

time to end this charade I call my life.



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