If men want more feminine women, they should support feminism and egalitarianism.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2018-10-20T21:23:32+00:00

they do not become "feminine" in ways that MEN want, they choose more "feminine" careers and life strategies

hammerhaunts · 2018-10-20T21:15:02+00:00

There are good kinds of feminine women and bad kinds, why do you think what you suggest would create more of the good kinds?

the-4th-survivor · 2018-10-21T00:47:47+00:00

I've seen a similar study to this one before. The reality is that egalitarianism has nothing to do with the gender differences they're referring to. It's a matter of economic security. Women in the West are free to do what they want because they know that no matter what, men will financially take care of them whether that be directly through marriage, or indirectly through tax-funded government services. Women in impoverished areas have no male-provided security blanket like that and so they're forced to provide for themselves which means adopting masculine traits and working in male-dominated career fields.

DespisedByWomen · 2018-10-20T22:11:08+00:00

In what parts of society are women not equal, and I dont mean equality of outcome, I mean equality of opportunity.

the_calibre_cat · 2018-10-20T21:44:52+00:00

I do.

I'm not opposed to the "feminism is the radical notion that women are people" feminism, AKA egalitarianism. I'm fully in support of it. It's just that I am wholly skeptical that this is the brand of feminism that is dominant within the movement in this day and age.

This is the brand of feminism that is dominant within the movement, as evidenced by my own anecdotal experiences on social and more institutional media:

Why can't we hate men? - Washington Post, complete with a front-and-center picture of Harvey Weinstein representing all men, apparently

The Rise of the Ironic Man Hater - Slate, it's just those waaaaaacky feminists being *ironic*! Ha ha ha!

18 Reasons Why Elaine From "Seinfeld" Is The Misandrist We All Aspire To Be - Apparently, aspiring to misandry is cool to left-wing, pro-feminist publications. On a completely unrelated note, I don't understand why men (the shittier sex, obvs) aren't on board with feminism! Don't they know it's about equality?

It's also not just headlines.

Studies (which we can ostensibly trust, right? they're all being performed by those completely objective social scientists who totally don't have an axe to grind!) which conveniently and consistently stumble upon conclusions that just so happen to cast an unfavorable light on men, yet few if any stumble upon conclusions that cast an unfavorable light on women. Either men are just the worse gender, or... politically-motivated publication boards consistently approve studies that support a certain narrative, and disapprove of studies that don't. You know, in fearless and objective pursuit of the truth.

It's memes on your social media page. Plenty of women post regular hashtags like #menaremothernaturesmistake, or have the image macros of "drinking male tears" or "misandrist," like it's a badge of pride. We rightly criticize men who post similarly hateful hashtags or images in the reverse, but women get a pass on it.

The list goes on and on. Men shouldn't be feminists. It is an entirely duplicitous movement that gives cover to legitimately hateful people - who are then shocked that some men have turned to various movements full of hateful people. People can see double-standards.

PhotosyntheticChad · 2018-10-21T23:35:05+00:00

I support egalitarianism but feminism and feminist theory is a total shit show of teleological rationale and anti-facts.

Loban8990 · 2018-10-20T21:19:50+00:00

But fish don't need bicycles.

larrythetomato · 2018-10-20T23:19:36+00:00

Your argument has 3 parts:

'This study' which shows that countries with higher levels of egalitarianism and wealth has greater gender differences.
Feminism supports wealth creation and egalitarianism.
Therefore if you want "greater gender differences", then you should support Feminism.

I disagree strongly on Point 2.

Feminism, especially in modern times, has created an an alliance with socialism with is collectivist socialism.

Both of them are very against both points:

Collectivism is about raising specific groups, instead raising individuals. That is the opposite of egalitarianism. Collectivism is like Group A bullied Group B, so let's give Group B a Bat to fight back. Individualism is more like 'we shouldn't bully period'. I don't think there is a good argument that Collectivism has anything to do with Egalitarianism, and I actually think that it is opposed to it.

Socialism is against the accumulation of wealth and capital. I could go into a massive triage against it, but I won't. So in short. Find me one society that gained wealth through socialism. Countries in Scandinavia don't count because they gained their wealth through private capital accumulation, then grew their social policies (also they are not socialist there is a Norwegian stock exchange). ~~Venezuela doesn't count~~ nevermind, we don't have to talk about them anymore.

I can give you many examples of the opposite: North vs South Korea, Singapore vs Malaysia, every western society etc.

If you change 'feminism' to Capitalist Liberalism, where we should aim to make the playing field as equal as possible, then I would agree with both the argument, and the goals.

Mattcwu · 2018-10-21T00:50:57+00:00

Came here to disagree, but you make a good point.

ifelsedowhile · 2018-10-21T03:38:06+00:00

Skipping on over towards the feminine end of the spectrum probably means more hypergamous behaviors.

I imagine women in Scandinavian countries to resort to sperm donors and raise their children in single mother households like it's already common in the African-American community.

storffish · 2018-10-20T21:12:56+00:00

ok but I want a hot girl who thinks like a dude. women with feminine personalities are a pain in the ass... I don't want kids, I don't want to marry you, I don't care that what your mother said made you cry, and I'm not going to guess why you're pissed this time.

abaxeron · 2018-10-20T23:00:12+00:00

Therefore, we should all be feminists because apparently, once women live in free egalitarian societies where they feel ‘empowered’, most of us will willingly and happily want to skip on over towards the feminine end of the spectrum.

Patriarchy is INSANELY cheaper. And gives better fertility rate.

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Kwangira · 2018-10-20T21:20:04+00:00

Greater gender differences != more feminine women in the traditional sense.

dolforrot · 2018-10-20T22:13:59+00:00

The dimensions they use to measure gender differences are

willingness to take risks, patience, altruism, positive and negative reciprocity

I'm not even sure what those mean in practice for more feminine behaviour. They don't seem to explain what those differences are anywhere in their paper. It certainly does not directly mean anything what people stereotypically imacine as feminine.

They also struggle to differentiate between how "feminist" (gender equal) and how wealthy they are. They've tried hard to seperate the two but they correlate pretty strongly and its not easy to be convinced they have succeeded. Japan is a pretty good test case as its wealthy but not feminist yet seems to show very similar effect. Perhaps its just wealth.

darla10 · 2018-10-21T01:44:35+00:00

Tell this to Muslims lol.

AidsinCali · 2018-10-21T09:32:17+00:00

Our women are still feminine because we all support traditional values. Have you guys tried that?

Michael604 · 2018-10-21T17:42:51+00:00

Or just date an Asian woman.

JezebeltheQueen5656 · 2018-10-21T23:57:16+00:00

i think it has to do with upbringing. are you telling me women naturally flock to typical femme careers, i mean, jobs? i dont think so. if you make your daughter play with dolls and instill femme ideals in her but keep telling her she is equal to males, she will flock to femme jobs and behave feminine nonetheless.

[deleted] · 2018-10-20T21:49:16+00:00

Aren't most of those societies getting ethnically and culturally replaced since the women aren't producing enough children because they see it as a burden?

How exactly is that a model to follow?

ifeelfuckingterrible · 2018-10-20T22:07:24+00:00

Ahahaha. So you look at this clear example that women make different career choices than men in equal societies, and instead of reflecting on how this evidence contradicts the common feminist claim that men and women are generally the same, you come to the conclusion that this means we need MORE feminism...because reasons. Even though that presumption is pretty much the building block for justifying discrimination against men, and lots of feminists even claim that women making more stereotypical feminine choices is a bad thing.

toronto87 · 2018-10-20T21:28:13+00:00

risk taking, patience, altruism, negative reciprocity

OK, but does that mean there will be more submissive girls into kinky sex, baking me pies, and living in my house without divorce raping me? I somehow doubt that lines up with egalitarianism. And, at any rate, the words feminism and egalitarianism do not belong in the same sentence. The first is a female supremacy movement.

Title	If men want more feminine women, they should support feminism and egalitarianism.
Author	darla10
Upvotes	3
Comments	108
Date	October 20, 2018 9:05 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/9pxsg1/if_men_want_more_feminine_women_they_should/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/if-men-want-more-feminine-women-they-should.259358 https://theredarchive.com/post/259358

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