Where the Red goes Wrong: Vulnerability

prodigy2throw · 2017-08-22T16:40:17+00:00

Vulnerability is kind of overrated as a lesson for newbies and guys struggling with women. It's only attractive when it's borne from confidence and a position of power/ means.

For guys struggling with women you need to have the confidence and success and then vulnerability is seen as endearing or comforting.

disposable_pants · 2017-08-22T17:25:13+00:00

If you actually want to grow as a man

"You're only a real man if [insert what I want you to do]" -- who falls for this stuff?

Bottom0ftheBarrel · 2017-08-22T16:05:34+00:00

I can understand being vulnerable with your wife or the mother of your children but why would anyone be vulnerable with someone they're seeing more casually? Men don't sleep around and keep things casual just to avoid being vulnerable. Lots of men do those things because they enjoy it.

[deleted] · 2017-08-22T16:11:45+00:00

If you actually want to grow as a man from your sexual relationships

That's not my goal. My goal is getting laid often with 7s and up, which all this crap hinders a lot. Telling me I'm going about my goals the wrong way might be effective. Trying to shame me into changing my goals because you think they're dumb doesn't work

circlhat · 2017-08-22T16:39:19+00:00

Why be vulnerability, no body wants to get hurt that's not insecurity that is common sense

I find with TRP that there is so much avoidance with taking responsibility for relationships.

Than you haven't read a single post , TRP believes it's 100% the men's fault (I disagree with this) but a core TRP tenant is never complain and never make excuses only get better.

That's where the "magic" in relationships happens, when you can actually connect with someone on a deeper level.

There is no deeper level maybe if your hung like a Horse , sex is mechanically chemical released as a indicator for a good mate and to spread your genes it's not conscious, it feels great because it's a actual drug oxy.

So of course it feels magical, but that is dope talk , nothing magical takes place.

There's way too much blaming of women for being "cruel and heartless"

Why not blame someone for their actions , if you're cruel than you're cruel

"'Tis better to have loved and lost than never loved at all"

Yes but love isn't being a fool,

"A fool and his money is soon parted"

Prince-Noctis · 2017-08-22T16:39:33+00:00

Men don't require women to reach their full potential--or self actualize as you put it. Relationships are not a bundle of magic, sparkles and fairy dust. What is this about not blaming women for emotional pain? If I'm in a relationship with someone, and they cheat, then I'm authorized to say they're a cheating cunt. That's different if I have unrequited feelings for another and get rejected, because they ain't owe me shittttt.

Emotional pain in a LTR relationship can't be avoided, so if someone ain't ready for it--don't do it. Relationships are a lot of time, maintenance and attention.

Pope_Lucious · 2017-08-23T01:25:02+00:00

Vulnerability is only allowed in males whose strength is not doubted. It's horrible advice for someone just beginning to gain self-esteem.

fetchyminx · 2017-08-22T17:10:29+00:00

Are you kidding me? You're just setting yourself up for failure if you open up to a girl about your insecurities, I'm not saying you shouldn't open up to any girl but why would you open up to a girl you don't even plan to have a ltr with? Most of them are spinning plates and not looking for relationships or marriage.

[deleted] · 2017-08-23T04:07:26+00:00

so what if you never been loved and you had been insulted and talked down because you share your vulnerability? i think the reason trp can't agree on this is because guys who need the trp are already vulnerably with woman what they need is confidence and looks maxed before they decide to share the soft stuff maybe a year later when she's seen all your cool sides. woman hate ugly men with emotions.

Merger-Arbitrage · 2017-08-22T16:42:15+00:00

I agree, for pursuing LTRs with someone its crucial, and can help warm someone up even in a more casual-sex oriented scenario by building trust, comfort and rapport. You're not putting your problems on someone else to have them deal with them, or constantly complaining or whining about it, however.

Much of the Manosphere shuns it in their comical attempts to over-macho their behavior. The irony is, this fear of vulnerability is in of itself a sigh of weakness and insecurity. If these guys had the ability to form long-lasting relationships before, that ability quickly ceases to exist not too long after they swallow the bitter Manosphere "advice."

DaThrowaway808 · 2017-08-22T19:16:04+00:00

Your premise and subsequent flaw in your whole view is that you are thinking of LTRs and serious relationships. TRP is talking about getting a first date/first few dates. The only men who can talk about vulnerability that early do not need TRP in the first place.

As Shakespeare said, "Thou doth not know thy audience"

Sniveling_Cur · 2017-08-23T10:46:33+00:00

According to you, men should open themselves up to women. Why? Because "it's okay to get hurt". The actual meaninglessness of that platitude aside, note how there is absolutely nothing to gain for the man in this scenario. They should open up and risk a lot of emotional pain "just because". Because some dead poet said so.

This is basically the extent of your argument, which is laughable.

Overall your post reminds me a lot of all the feminists who cry that men should "man up an marry, because".

InformalCriticism · 2017-08-23T11:51:57+00:00

to avoid getting emotionally hurt by women.

This is just a fancy way of saying "understanding shit tests for what they are".

Some of the more emotionally immature guys I'm working with currently will get verified butt-hurt if someone makes a joke about their physique. "Imaginary lat syndrome" was used yesterday to describe such a man. The dude wouldn't let it go. This emotional sensitivity is what gets a lot of guys in trouble with women, because they're programmed to tear people down (e.g. any female social circle that gets too big for its britches; i.e. any female in a relationship shit testing).

Shakespeare was speaking to women. Machiavelli was speaking to men.

LewisCross · 2017-08-22T16:39:18+00:00

It's when you tell a girl "hey listen, I want you to know I'm flawed in XYZ way" "Me and my mom haven't always gotten along well and I've had to come to terms with our relationship problems and now am on better terms with her" etc

NO NO NO NO NO

If you EVER do this, you do it only when you're getting serious.

That's where the "magic" in relationships happens, when you can actually connect with someone on a deeper level.

sounds feminine to me.

as opposed to manning up and realizing that relationships are a very emotional thing and that it is okay to get hurt and that you should responsibility for your own feelings and not blame a woman for them.

The problem isn't that men don't take responsibility for their own feelings. the problem is them making decisions based on feelings, using ffeelings to manipulate, and getting hurt at everything. The problem is that a lot of men before they get to TRP approach relationships in a very feminine way, like women with penises - all feelings based, all giving and caring and never expecting anything, putting up with bullshit just for the chance at some pussy, when they should be running the relationship so as to get something they want out of it.

BPremium · 2017-08-22T16:40:59+00:00

Hahaha yeah right. If youre vulnerable about something that is an actual vulnerability, they'll use it against you till the bitter end. If one has to be vulnerable, be "vulnerable" about a strength.

When an interviewer asks " What's your biggest weakness?", never tell the truth. You spin a strength to appear as a "weakness" to make yourself look better. Saying "I care to much about the quality of the work" is way way better than "Im pretty lazy and am only here for the paycheck". Even if the latter is the truth.

alreadyredschool · 2017-08-22T15:58:54+00:00

Why would you be vulnerable with plates? Do that with your LTR or a wife but not with plates.

Have you read models?

Where all rp is wrong posts go wrong - not knowing anything about rp.

that's where the magic happens

Is this the usual we are all incomplete and need a soul mate to be happy stuff that gets pushed so hard each and every day but actually has no scientific basis quite the contrary happen studies show they are not better off than their single counterparts.

TheOneTrueMagnet · 2017-08-22T21:03:18+00:00

Women love power. They want someone who they is at least "on their level." The problem is that the relationship power dynamic shifts dramatically at each level of commitment. When she moves in, she has gained to power to beat you and imprison you at will. When you are married long enough to pass the annulment limit, she gains spousal support depending on the state. When she has a child, hopefully yours, she is now entitled to your labor for 18 years whether she divorces you, let's you see the child, or whatever. In addition to this, the man's brain will dump hormones for dropping testosterone levels in order to keep him around the baby upping the difficulty even more. Men have to posture in order to pretend that this power gap doesn't exist by using frame, dread, and game.

The problem is that one day she is going to seriously threaten to divorce you and you won't be able hold frame because you are human. You will lose frame and she will love you a little less. The next time you will capitulate a little faster and she will love you a little less. Eventually you are trapped in a nightmare. You live in a tiny cage with an 800 lbs gorilla that knows it. You might be able to keep it together for the children. You might not. It depends completely on her.

Being in an LTR is like handing a loaded gun to her while acting like you are still in control. It might work and be fine. She might love you enough to play along. Just remember that at any point, she can wake up one morning and destroy everything you have with no consequences.

There is a difference between mutual vulnerability to deepen a relationship and the completely non-negotiable, insane laws that were purposefully written in order to destroy the family.

Maxxinhk · 2017-08-23T00:02:33+00:00

Not only for guys but also gals, it takes so much courage and strength to be vulnerable.

eichhoernchen_lucy · 2017-08-25T05:17:41+00:00

I think the important thing is timing. You can't just go around and tell people you barely know your hidden fears and weaknesses. There is a time and a place for opening up to someone. If you confide in someone early on, they might think that your secret weakness is not actually secret at all and act accordingly. Or the conversation just feels forced for everyone involved and the other person is overwhelmed by this new information. Or the person you're talking to might think that you are just using your pretend weakness in order to guilt-trip them into going out/having sex with you. Or, if they are a mean person (which you can't know at that point), they could use your weakness to hurt you more efficiently.

Later on, it is of course important to talk about this kind of stuff, but not all at once. You shouldn't just dump everything on your partner and expect them to deal with it (or even solve it). There is often a time when certain weaknesses just come up naturally over the course of a longer relationship (whether it is a romantic relationship or a friendship). Also, I think this should be a somewhat two-sided exchange of information.

IamTheWalkingMenu · 2017-08-22T17:03:25+00:00

You're being so reasonable and mature and whatnot!! It's a matter of degree. Don't pretend to be a machine but also don't let every last bit of your crazy leak out all over. Hit that sweet spot in the middle of genuine and human. Something something real recognize real!!

theiamsamurai · 2017-08-22T16:46:36+00:00

It's when you tell a girl "hey listen, I want you to know I'm flawed in XYZ way" "Me and my mom haven't always gotten along well and I've had to come to terms with our relationship problems and now am on better terms with her" etc. not because you feel like it will turn a girl on more or some shit but because that is genuinely who you are.

I tell those things not to turn them on, but to purposely turn them off, because I want to prove that they don't really want me. Like when a girl says "i want you more" or "i love you more", it triggers me, because it's scuntbaggy and fake.

Scurvemuch · 2017-08-22T16:49:09+00:00

Yeah, most men these days need to build up the confidence ( read, sleep with more women) to be able to emote in a way that doesn't stink of insecurity.

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MrTrizzles · 2017-08-22T18:16:00+00:00

I don't have any flaws or insecurities and if I did what point is there in "opening up" to a romantic partner? I'm not interested in people's flaws nor them in mine. We bond over virtues and respected traits and accomplishments.

The only practical reason to tell anyone would be if they could assist somehow, which would mean an expert.

Entropy-7 · 2017-08-22T20:43:14+00:00

Being vulnerable is great . . . when it all ends well.

badnews4u · 2017-08-24T10:20:15+00:00

i kind of agree. but would ask, where did you find this? i dont think trp says to do what you say, since the men that consult it are wrecked from relationships already and it is unrealistic to suppress emotions.

the key is to not unstack all your problems on your girl

hardlifeman · 2017-08-23T15:14:33+00:00

Bullshit.

Basically, men live under the pressure of one unrelenting message: Do not be perceived as weak. Here’s the painful pattern that emerged from my research with men: We ask them to be vulnerable, we beg them to let us in, and we plead with them to tell us when they’re afraid, but the truth is that most women can’t stomach it. In those moments when real vulnerability happens in men, most of us recoil with fear and that fear manifests as everything from disappointment to disgust. And men are very smart. They know the risks, and they see the look in our eyes when we’re thinking, C’mon! Pull it together. Man up. --Brene Brown, Daring Greatly

In my experience, the only women with whom it wasn't detrimental to be open and vulnerable were those who had high insecurity and low self-esteem - some of them had been abused.

Vulnerability and showing emotion dry up the vagina like nothing else. I have experienced it firsthand, multiple times. It's a trap, don't fall for it.

And, sometimes it truly is better to have never loved at all.

Title	Where the Red goes Wrong: Vulnerability
Author	Melman195
Upvotes	20
Comments	162
Date	August 22, 2017 3:57 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/6vbyhl/where_the_red_goes_wrong_vulnerability/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/where-the-red-goes-wrong-vulnerability.266365 https://theredarchive.com/post/266365

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