Discussion: Men, Crying, and Attraction

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2017-02-26T15:52:06+00:00

here i am going to reiterate my macho tokens theory.

this is how i think it works:

a man amasses macho or "Attractive" tokens during the initial courtship by engaging in masculine behaviors and attitudes, all of the things TRP advises and just normal masculine things. this macho cred, or tokens, can then later be spent on moments of vulnerability that are actually very bonding and attractive (he DOES have a sensitive side!!) in the romantic sense, they are like little drops of glue in the relationship for the woman. but the key issue is men have to build UP this macho token account before they can start spending it. a lot of men who go to TRP or who are unsuccessful with women have a "macho tokens" deficit when they go into relating to women, so any vulnerability or lack of manliness is immediately counted against them. TRP helps them fill their account with tokens FIRST so that the inevitable displays of less masculine behavior will be forgiven

does that make sense?

prodigy2throw · 2017-02-26T15:52:40+00:00

This is what I don't like about a lot of red pill ideas, it still puts women on a pedestal. I don't think sex is worth giving up your self worth in order to hold frame. I rather date women who don't think I'm supposed to be a robot with a dick.

lollygagyo · 2017-02-26T17:05:54+00:00

I find emotional men highly attractive. People who are expressive = my thing. I want that full range of emotional expression and that includes getting sad & getting vulnerable.

I find whiny men (ie men who cry because ''woe is me!'' over trivial issues) frustrating and avoid them.

IamTheWalkingMenu · 2017-02-26T21:11:50+00:00

I'm not going to "lose attraction" to a guy who shows "how he truly feels" unless those feels are loser feelings like self-pity or self-righteousness.

I don't think my expectations of a guy are unrealistic. I don't whine and cry (ok I cry in the shower sometimes) and I don't want him to either. I mean who wants to be around that?

LittleWindowpane · 2017-02-26T18:15:40+00:00

IMO it depends on the man, the woman, and the culture: a hippie liberal progressive earth mother type from Portland will have very different views on the subject than an evangelical Christian from Georgia. Some women are more accepting of that than others; it's the sad and whiny type that's unattractive, not the passionate artist.

The farther away you get from the granola-munching liberal hippies, the less acceptable it is, though there are always exceptions.

[deleted] · 2017-02-26T18:29:55+00:00

What RP does not understand is that there is a chasm of difference between showing real emotion and being pathetic.

Being pathetic means that you are trying to manipulate someone into doing what you want by being helpless and needy. "Life is so unfair to me, don't leave me!" This is obviously un-masculine.

Being in touch with your emotions, showing them when appropriate, is a grown up skill. Women want that and expect it in a masculine, adult man that they respect and love. It's a fantasy of the internet that we can be cold, logical, and completely devoid of emotion. This means nothing more than pushing your emotions away entirely because you're afraid of the pain that comes with dealing with those emotions head on. It's not masculine, it's immature and stupid.

Crying like a bitch because you're afraid she might break up with you? Pathetic.

Processing stages of grief like a grown up after a relationship ends? Emotional Intelligence.

Avoid the former, learn the latter.

BiggerDthanYou · 2017-02-26T15:14:30+00:00

The majority of women probably don't lose any sexual attraction towards their boyfriend/husband/FwB for crying if it's a situation where they would do the same. If anything, a woman's attraction for her man would increase due to this show of trust in her to not adversely judge him for being temporarily vulnerable.

Lol

you people will get every last single detail wrong because you're starting with "men and women are equal and the same in every way"

ClarityofDisaster · 2017-02-26T15:03:49+00:00

changing ideas of gender norms

Hold on.....Feminism may be slowly gaining tract among Western women and a smaller amount of men but the fact is, even in 'liberal' America and 'liberal' UK, gender dynamics have not changed; this coming from a feminine guy who's lived in a few countries of Western Europe and the US. The theory of gender equality has not influenced the practice of inequality.

If we take young people <21, I think quasi traditional masculinity/masculine behaviours and femininity/feminine behaviours still hold. Crying is seen as much more taboo for men and though they may not be ostracized like they would be 40 years ago, Showing it would be 'building a glass barrier' when it comes to dating a good number of women.

KronosStone · 2017-02-26T15:07:04+00:00

Most adult women are mature enough to understand that their men have emotions that are just as strong as ours, and are equally deserving of comfort and validation for their mental states.

Incorrect. The majority of women would be disgusted by seeing their man shed even a single tear in front of them, unless it was during one of the extreme scenarios mentioned in the OP. Society has taught women that they are emotionally superior to men, so of course they will not be able to see that his emotions are similar to hers. The type of woman who would actually comfort her SO, or even more miraculously, have sex with him later that same day, is a unicorn.

ClarityofDisaster · 2017-02-26T15:16:18+00:00

Only weak low testosterone men cry about trivial shit. Only a weak woman would put up with such a weak man.

I've had several girls tell me emotional men are to much drama

wattwatty · 2017-02-26T16:04:43+00:00

I think the whole tenor of the OP gives away the plot.

changing ideas of gender norms, women are more accepting of seeing men cry...

Most adult women are mature enough to understand...

The majority of women probably don't lose any sexual attraction...

even:

a woman's attraction for her man would increase due to this show of trust...

All these (at first gloss) positive statements actually connote the validity of the TRP trope: Women have an instinctual, primal dislike of any show of vulnerability from men. "Modern" mores can ameliorate this (this is the point of the points quoted), but the base disgust is what is being fought against. The animal will always win.

wtknight · 2017-02-26T16:43:48+00:00

I've always been very emotional and I don't think I've had anyone lose attraction to me over it. Maybe it's because any negative emotions are balanced by all of the positive ones I have too. At any rate, it's part of my character and it's not something that's ever going to change, so I don't worry about it and how it affects my attraction level.

DarkLord0chinChin · 2017-02-26T16:50:42+00:00

Women will tolerate men crying only if it's not seen as weak. For example a man mourning the loss of his daughter is not weak

EliteSpartanRanger · 2017-02-26T18:27:01+00:00

If a guy I've been dating for a long time never once cries or shows his emotions then I will begin to feel like he doesn't trust me.

That said of course I don't a whiny guy who cries about everything trivial like the TV remote control not working. But I think that opening up about his emotions and being willing to cry in front of me is important as a sign that he trusts me.

Also to me nothing is more unattractive than a guy who doesn't know something and pretends he knows it and refuses to ask for help because he sees it as unmanly.

darksoldierk · 2017-02-26T19:20:20+00:00

Just because it is socially accepted doesn't mean it doesn't affect a person's attraction. For example, even though it is no longer socially acceptable for a man to expect his wife to have a meal prepped by the time he got home from work, the fact is, men are still extremely attracted to women who can cook, and who enjoy cooking. They can't say it, but it's true.

If men cried or showed emotion as often as women, women would and do lose attraction to them. Men are alone, they can't confide in their SO. It's sad, but it's true. The other side of it is, men enjoy privacy. Most women don't seem to understand that for whatever reason. When a man shows emotion, he wants it to stay between him and the person he is talking with. Women are incapable of keeping it between them. She might mention it when talking in group setting some time in the future, or she might tell one of her friends. The really shitty women will throw it in a man's face when she gets angry. It's shitty that men need to keep their emotions to themselves, but it's the way it is.

Men have learned to express their emotions in some other way. I do it by playing guitar. Others do it by playing video games. Some may do it by building a car, or going to a shooting range or hunting or whatever. They need to get their emotions out in some way other than talking about it because the only person who they should be talking to is the worst person they could possibly choose to talk to.

questioningwoman · 2017-02-26T19:44:22+00:00

Men should be allowed to cry and show emotions. Fuck all these social rules.

ClarityofDisaster · 2017-02-26T21:35:24+00:00

As a man, I would allow as much emotional leeway as I get.

I'm a type to bottle it up and explode later (I did grow up around macho types and otherwise untrustworthy people, and could never show anyone anything), so rather than explode, I'd prefer to cry at a movie or have a night where I otherwise get rid of it. If someone thinks I'm weak over it, they can go fuck themselves. If some woman takes that as meaning that I can be the rock in her emotional storm, she can go fuck herself too.

If a woman wants a man to be the leader, she'd better do things that actually support the leader instead of just being a follower, because being a leader and being responsible for others sucks and is generally no worth it.

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Littleknownfacts · 2017-02-26T15:23:16+00:00

Personally, I could not be attracted to an overly emotional man.

prodigy2throw · 2017-02-26T15:33:51+00:00

Men crying outside of a close death or sudden severe illness is probably one of the most vile things a woman can witness a man do.

Women want to feel protected by their man. Crying when he has a bad day at work or if someone is mean to him is pathetic.

despisedlove2 · 2017-02-26T17:35:42+00:00

If a guy does this rarely, then it does no harm beyond the woman looking at him in a slightly different light. If it becomes a pattern, then she is going to ditch him.

In fact this may be why men generally respond to major setbacks with anger, rather than sorrow. It may be evolutionary.

[deleted] · 2017-02-26T18:38:29+00:00

There's a common bit of advice that RPers tend to give out regarding holding frame in a relationship, and how a man has to be extremely careful about how much emotion (especially sadness, fear, or frustration) he lets show around his SO.

Yes, women are not sexually attracted to emotions in men. Men have to be stoic(feel emotions, but do not show the emotions had an effect on him) in order to maintain attraction if there's attraction there to begin with.

Typically, it is said that the only times it's "appropriate" for a man to cry/be visibly upset is if a parent dies, he's diagnosed with a long-term illness, or some other extraordinary scenario. Outside of these, a man needs to not show how he truly feels, or else his woman will immediately lose attraction for him.

It is what it is. Women are not attracted to emotional men because that displays weakness and women have to make sure their offspring and themselves can be protected from other men by a capable, strong, in-control Alpha male. They'll dump him and move on for another guy if he reveals himself to have any weakness.

Most adult women are mature enough to understand that their men have emotions that are just as strong as ours, and are equally deserving of comfort and validation for their mental states. The majority of women probably don't lose any sexual attraction towards their boyfriend/husband/FwB for crying if it's a situation where they would do the same. If anything, a woman's attraction for her man would increase due to this show of trust in her to not adversely judge him for being temporarily vulnerable.

Most women? Maybe the women you know :/

[deleted] · 2017-02-26T23:40:17+00:00

It depends on what you are upset about. If it is something like your dog dying, it probably seems alright. If it is something unworthy, then you look like a pussy.

trail22 · 2017-02-27T00:14:01+00:00

Your a guy with no prospects. You act like an asshole and suddenly damaged people like you. You either stay an asshole even though you dont want to be, or you be the guy are more comfortable being now that you have no reason to be bitter and lose the girl.

Title	Discussion: Men, Crying, and Attraction
Author	ClarityofDisaster
Upvotes	12
Comments	143
Date	February 26, 2017 2:42 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/5wad17/discussion_men_crying_and_attraction/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/discussion-men-crying-and-attraction.269834 https://theredarchive.com/post/269834

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