Q4BP: How seriously do you take TRP and the overall manosphere?

xertlust · 2016-05-22T10:03:08+00:00

I'm neither pill. Or all of them, not quite sure.

I have a lot more sympathy for TRP men than I did a few months ago. Through life I've always just assumed that lesser men still got laid, just with lesser women. In time those men fell from my social circles, but I still figured they were doing ok.

But to find out how difficult it is for a significant swath of men was eye opening. Now I don't think TRP men are quite representative of the "average" class of men. Probably a little lower than average, judging by their posts and stories. The average men I know appear to be more successful than the typical TRP man at finding quality women.

I love all the concepts they've come up with. AF/BB is probably the most interesting. I can find little to fault with any of their observations, although in their conclusions, they seem blind to the fact that most of them are based in solipsism, the very thing they despise.

But it's still fascinating, how otherwise intelligent men can just lack a certain... self-knowledge. Or -confidence. -Awareness? Hard to say what's missing really. Pendulum swings and all that. Anyways, at the very least a bunch of men with masculinity issues sitting around debating what it means to be masculine is good for a few laughs so I stick around. As support groups go TRP has got to be one of the most interesting.

They are probably on the more valuable end of the MRA spectrum, but I'm no expert. I'm just learning that these men exist, but I'm glad they've all found each other. The Internet is an amazing thing.

Edited for spelling.

Wowbaggerrr · 2016-05-22T15:59:03+00:00

I don't mind the RP guys. There are some really thoughtful men in here that just want to be heard, and will be respectful of different opinions. There are definitely the complete opposite, but I try not to engage with them. In any group, there are bad eggs. If anyone seems to be firmly stuck in the "I hate women, women are the source of all evil" mindset, they're not worth the trouble of trying to debate or discuss a topic. If someone is open and puts thought into their posts, I'm happy to talk and try to understand their viewpoint.

I don't think the "pills" have too much influence on real life. The red vs. blue problems seem to get magnified in here. So I read PPD just for kicks. I find the debates interesting. Every once in a while someone will say something profound that changes how I feel about either feminism or men's rights. Those alone are worth wading through here.

andrewisgood · 2016-05-22T14:33:00+00:00

I think it can be pretty rough as sadly, people in TRP still exist in the real world. Sure, many people, myself included, don't act like they do online. There are lots of internet tough guys it seems on TRP, so laughing at them and making fun of their field reports is pretty much the point of the Blue Pill sub.

In regards to the manosphere, it's gaining in popularity but it certainly has a ceiling (a glass ceiling if you will, haha, comedy!). There are some feminists who say some fucked up shit, and the recent attacks on James Rolfe (Angry Video Game Nerd) for his video saying he doesn't want to see or review the New Ghostbusters movie really don't help that (since it makes people who are sexist feel justified in their beliefs, especially since the movie started getting heat just for having women in staring roles). None of that though compares to the most well known manosphere person, Roosh V, the self admitted rapist who only may not have raped people because he could simply be full of shit and trying to brag to his troglodyte followers. People may not like Jezebel or Skepchick or any other feminist news/blogging sites, but Return of Kings is just a place where people hate women and is so much more toxic then any feminist website could be, even with straw maning.

And that gets to the whole MRA stuff in general. I think my biggest issue with men's right's advocates is it doesn't really seem to be about men's rights, more then it's against feminism. Cristen Conger of the podcast, Stuff Mom Never Told You talked about how men's right's advocacy seems to be a zero sum game instead of actually trying to better the rights of men. There's no intersectionality with MRAs.

[deleted] · 2016-05-22T12:30:16+00:00

source of amusement for you?

yes.

another question, do you think the manosphere raises any valid concerns at all or do you believe it's mostly exaggerated horsehit?

None of it concerns me since it's not applicable to me or my social group of both men/women. We all have fun, happy dating lives without asking the internet for personality tips. The idea of obsessing over labels such as alpha/beta would be laughed at, as none of us are insecure 17 year olds.

That said, I do understand why so many are attracted to TRP. I'm just amused by how popular it is over redditors. I do understand why a former nice guy who is frustrated might find TRP so appealing. Like if your personality is so bland/unattractive that taking generic TRP advice is an improvement is a good thing, then I'm all for it. Same for if you are in your 20s and never realized physical fitness is attractive. Hey, I'm glad you're learning things.

And I also get the insecurities and fears of being a "Beta provider" whatnot.

AnUndecidedPill · 2016-05-22T15:05:07+00:00

I'm half convinced that RP is an elaborate joke sub.

shoup88 · 2016-05-23T04:42:43+00:00

There are grains of truth, but they get lost in the zealotry and exaggeration. "Some men have an easier time getting casual sex" turns into "women are only attracted to the top 20% of guys". Women being more sexually adventurous in their youth means they must be settling in their 30s while craving alpha cock. Essentially, MTV reality shows become representative of all women. Jersey Shore girls loved roided assholes - we can extrapolate that to the entire female population, right?

I have sympathy for some of the complaints, and I understand there are emotional reasons behind their theories, but logically it doesn't add up to me. Rationally, I don't see how my city and social circle can be so special and unique that it's completely different than how red pill says the world operates. It's a group of men who have struggled with women, gathering in an echo chamber and thinking their experiences must be universal truths.

I don't really take it too seriously. They're not making, or even advocating for, change on a massive level. I support their method - they give men who struggle a set of useful tools and a place to vent. The basic stuff (self-improvement, take the pussy off the pedastal) is helpful, and the rest is largely harmless.

I engage on this sub because I'm interested in their POV, and I love debating. This is a healthy outlet to keep me from arguing with friends too much.

awrestorant1 · 2016-05-22T15:02:12+00:00

As a shitposting oldfag, TRP is nothing. Doesn't even scratch the surface. Resentful losers desperately trying to be ALPHA AS FUARK.

It's mostly funny, sometimes sad. But I've seen worse elsewhere.

dakru · 2016-05-22T19:02:47+00:00

This thread was reported for circlejerking but I don't see a problem so I'm not going to remove it. It seems like a valid question asked in good faith. If someone disagrees with this decision, they're welcome to provide an argument.

monkees4va · 2016-05-23T21:50:24+00:00

I'm not associated with any Pill. According to Red Pill, women like me don't exist, so I don't even attempt to challenge many of the posts that irk me because I know I'm speaking to a brick wall.

Mentally I'm more masculine than feminine, and always have been. I'm a tomboy, love Science Fiction and Video Games with a taste for heavy metal. I'm heteroflexible in my tastes but I don't think I could date a woman. I don't have casual sex and I'm proud of that fact.

According to RP I'm some crazy Ho who in reality rides the cock carousel and is constantly assessing for my next friendly dick. The two serious relationships I've had both lasted for years and I was friends with them first. I insist upon financial and sexual equality as necessary facets in any potential relationship. I understand RP as a critique of evolutionary biology, where the unequal distribution of reproductive and sexual power held by females causes pain to unsuccessful males. I don't see this as inherently wrong, since it's echoed in many different animal mating strategies. It's unfair, but that's life. The idea of becoming an alpha then makes perfect logical sense, if all one cares about is getting pussy.

I don't care about getting dick unless I already like the person. I have my own neuroses and I'm open and honest about them. If that scares off a potential mate then they aren't worth my time. I am anti-feminist since I feel the movement is becoming increasingly desperate. That's unfortunately common when the principal motivator for activism (financial) relies on proving a problem exists and that you need funding to tackle it.

I follow and engage with this sub because I have sympathy for several mens rights issues and campaign for them in my spare time. I also like challenging my hard held beliefs so stop to ponder anything that might offend. At the same time, many Red Pillers here would probably give me a wide berth because of several attributes I have no control over (no relationship with birth father, abused as a child, no interest in casual sex & a sociology/politics student) so I observe rather than get in the thick of it.

Princeso_Bubblegum · 2016-05-22T14:50:56+00:00

Truth be told, it really is a source of amusement. A lot of red pillers are so fucking out there, that all you can do is laugh. I also come here to argue with people, but I don't actually intend to change anyone's mind, I just like arguing, it gives me some kind of weird pleasure (not sexual lol), plus it exposes me to outside view points.

I think red pill shit itself is disgusting as all hell. There might be literally 2 points which they are right on. I do sympathize more with men's rights stuff however though. There are legitimate issues that men face in the modern world that are ignored by most feminism, and a lot of the time they try to re-frame those issues in a women's issues light, which I find a little disgusting.

That said, my biggest issue with the "manosphere" in general is the notion that feminists are making men more feminine, and that this is a bad thing. I think the worlds is to masculine actually, and I want men to be more free to be feminine, I don't think gender equality will really be reached until men are free to wear dresses without issue like women can now wear pants. A lot of how society stereotypes men as violent and sex crazed only can be solved with more free feminization. Red pill stuff is the antithesis of that goal.

BluePiller1776 · 2016-05-22T15:35:57+00:00

I view it mainly as a joke.

There are w few guys that go there I would feel sorry for. However, if I present you with information as to why trp is hateful and bullshit and you still think it's a good idea, well then you're a fucking loser lol

To me, trp is just a babies sitting around crying because someone else has a nicer toy. They want to have the best sex with the hottest women, "Chad gets to why don't I!!" Overall, trp is a bunch of narsisists enabling each other and bragging about having completely average sex lives

They offer no real solutions to help me besides "lift"

wordjedi · 2016-05-22T19:21:11+00:00

Trolls be trollin'. Not much more to understand.

[deleted] · 2016-05-23T02:49:31+00:00

I'm pretty curious, but at the same time amused by some of the statements certain members make. I used to perceive a threat from participants in the manosphere, but that has since diminished as I have resolved to screen only for men who share compatible viewpoints.

dota2nub · 2016-05-24T11:39:29+00:00

Its's a recipe for making people unhappy

[deleted] · 2016-05-25T11:50:47+00:00

I can't take their theories seriously. The theories are fluff.

But I take their emotions seriously. Their emotions are a mix of many things, so it can't really be pinned down: hate, bitterness, loneliness, anger, greed, self-pity, pride, pain, jealousy, desire, drive, wish-fulfillment and others.

trp is like a seething ball of all the above rolling around in a fishbowl (year after year). Like the song, they think their dreams were traded for hot ashes.

For some reason, it's a group of men who think they deserve far more than they got. Which is interesting. Why do they think they deserve more?

This is largely a group of very young western men who can:

get a job
start his own business
has a thousand opportunities to make money online in the hours after working his day job, if he so wishes
earn an income
is not in the middle of a war zone
has enough food and clothing
can study for a job that will enable him to live and work in other countries (such as becoming a teacher)
can go and live in a cheaper country if he wishes and have a young, attractive wife
can go and live in a cheaper country and buy prostitutes, if he so wishes

And so, why does he think he got short changed and deserves more? None were brought up in isolation or under a regime where the internet and media were banned. They had access to lots of different streams of thought.

Like I said - interesting.

ProbablyBelievesIt · 2016-05-22T08:58:05+00:00

Have you ever seen their petitions? They can't even manage that much activism. And forget any alliance building....

That's the last thing they want.

They raise many important issues - we don't do enough to protect men from violence, we don't do enough to make them part of the community, and there's a serious lack of role models. We don't take women's violence seriously enough, and there are too many men and women - and children - paying the consequences.

And then they bury all these issues again, except the last one, because it's more fun to look for an excuse to talk shit about a woman - any woman, then to actually do anything useful - the bar's never been set so low for 'human rights activism'.

Which is why they aren't taken seriously outside of their echo chambers.

If feminists had made as many excuses to do nothing, as most of them do, abortion would be illegal, and so would women's vote.

But I take them very seriously - they're spreading a cynical message of anger and helplessness, with no real plan to deal with all the negative emotions they've raised up. For too many, taking the redpill is more a bitter surrender than any act of rebellion.

AnUndecidedPill · 2016-05-22T20:21:33+00:00

RP guys are, for the most part, desperate and sad. Would be worthy of sympathy if they weren't such antagonistic assholes.

Men's Rights guys are the most pathetic of all. Weak, and easily intimidated by strong women and seeking any reason to punch them down since they cannot compete and win by themselves.

Bunch of sad men.

AnUndecidedPill · 2016-05-22T23:20:21+00:00

It's a joke.

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Title	Q4BP: How seriously do you take TRP and the overall manosphere?
Author	AnUndecidedPill
Upvotes	7
Comments	112
Date	May 22, 2016 7:07 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/4khkt1/q4bp_how_seriously_do_you_take_trp_and_the/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/q4bp-how-seriously-do-you-take-trp-and-the-overall.274585 https://theredarchive.com/post/274585

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