"men who love women, are loved by women"

planejane · 2015-12-28T23:31:06+00:00

This strikes me as assuming this guy is already lead-in-a-romcom material:

If he's an ATTRACTIVE man, this works.
If he's a CAPABLE man, this works.
If he is otherwise deemed WORTHY, this works.

This is a bunch of feel-good bs that really isn't useful for those who aren't already at that attractive stage. Nobody's going to go for the doting nerd who worships the ground you walk on if he's really got nothing else going on. This post assumes and describes Step 10 when he's not even on step 2 yet.

[deleted] · 2015-12-28T22:04:56+00:00

[deleted]

What is this?

joseremarque · 2015-12-28T22:25:07+00:00

Those quotes might make more sense if you put "attractive" before each instance of the word "man".

Shadow_on_the_Heath · 2015-12-28T23:21:42+00:00

I've read those bulletpoints from the book and my immediate takeaway is like "oh that's a positive, optimistic worldview, I feel uplifted by these words".

But than I put my thinking cap on and realise it's just waffle. Worthless, feel-good waffle. There is nothing substantial in this. I'm basically being fed some airy fairy platitudes. I'm not getting any useful advice.

It kind of sounds like those "new age" health quacks who talk about "positive energy", "chakras" and "auras" with respect to health. If the rest of the book is similarly written then your basically advocating for a snake oil salesman tbh.

grendalor · 2015-12-28T23:25:19+00:00

It's dribble for the most part. Naturals do well, because they are naturals. For other men, that kind of approach doesn't work, and even if it does, the women with whom it will work are by far and away not worth the energy it takes to do that. Very few women are.

DrPindaB · 2015-12-28T23:37:46+00:00

I would like to take these one at a time and try to explain why I agree or disagree. Just my opinion, by still.

"There is a subset of men who move among women with ease. Who are these men and why are they allowed to roam unhindered in the land of women?....We assume it is things like animal magnetism and confidence, the ability to light up a room with sheer force of presence....Why do these men seem to have this presence while others do not? The answer is simple: these men love women with all their hearts."

Alpha male. He roams among you with ease because he doesn't care what you think of him. He isn't staring you down. He isn't chasing you around the mall. He has confidence in himself. you know that, he knows that.

"A boy makes his girlfriend jealous of other women. A man makes other women jealous of his girl"

A whole lot of variables go into this. But alas, this is bullshit. Woman get jealous of other woman for the most petty of things. Jealous that her friend has a boyfriend falls under this category.

"A man who loves women has no need or desire to take anything from a woman, and yet would happily share everything with her. His respect for her is supreme, and yet if she spends any time in his presence at all, he will bend her over without hesitation.....men don't understand this, and women do."

In this day and age, this isn't applicable. Both men and women these days have too much to lose. After enough giving, people don't want to give anymore. Giving is not a good investment.

"Women are waiting to be seduced again, to feel something, anything, for men to show up as men, for men to rediscover their role in the dance of life. Women are secretly cheering for men, wanting them to be excellent, wanting men to know that they are on their side. Be excellent with us, woo us, seduce us, make us believe again!"

So treat you like a princess. But you have to act like a princess to be treated like one. You can't act like the troll under the bridge and not expect to be treated like a troll under the bridge.

"Women want to be generous to men, and they are-they are massively generous to men who love women, who delight in their desires. Women give. There is no need to take. There is no need for conquering or controlling. This is another thing most men don't understand. It is not man against woman. It is the two of them together against the world."

This is true, and this is bullshit. True part, "It is the two of them together against the world." Bullshit part. "Women want to be generous to men, and they are-they are massively generous to men who love women, who delight in their desires. Women give. There is no need to take. There is no need for conquering or controlling." Hence the reason for TRP. Women ARE controlling. They like to control men, other women, children, EVERYTHING. Look at how women act around each other, that's all the proof you need.

darksoldierk · 2015-12-29T00:16:36+00:00

First of all, all men were raised to love women with all of their hearts. I remember when I used to think of women as companions. Someone that I could share my life with, share my joys and sorrows, my struggles, my dreams and my heart and someone who would do the same with me. I remember when I used to think that relationships take compromise, honesty and integrity, but that love would be something that would always be there. When I was a child, I remember seeing my aunt wearing all black and break down and crying at a seemingly random point in the conversation. When I asked my father why, he said that her husband had passed. When I asked him how recent it was that he passed, he said it was 5 years earlier. Can you imagine that level of love? Five years had gone by, and my aunt still cried at the thought or mention of her husband. Five years, and she still mourned his loss. As that event took place, within that hour, I understood what love is. That event brought me to shame, that I was a part of a gender that is so violent and aggressive, when instead I could have been a part of gender that is so loving. But those thoughts changed. You know what happened? you know what made me change my way of thinking? Women.

Let me put it this way, if you want to be loved, you should strive to deserve it, not act like you're entitled to it.

I grew up, got in a few relationships, had some females who are friends and the way I saw that women are was nothing like what I had thought they were. I saw women who intentionally manipulated men in their lives who they called "friend". I saw women who cared more about the size of the diamond, rather than symbol that the diamond represents. I saw women who would dump the good men they claimed to love and take their house, car, money...not because they needed to, but just because they could. For god's sake, I saw women deny their children't father their right to see and be a part of their own child's life. A man that strives to make other women jealous of his girlfriend means that he gives his life to her. That means that he trusts her enough with his love, respect, money and accomplishments. But women have shown time and time again that they will use that trust to hurt those same men. So why should a man trust a woman to that point? You have to realize that today's men keep women at arm's length because it isn't their first relationship. In fact, every man I know had his first girlfriend basically tear his heart out for no good reason. My favourite of all time was the magnificent "I need to time to get to know the part of myself that isn't 'us'". You should have seen how much my buddy loved this girl. He TRULY loved her. So you know what he did for his other relationships? he kept them at arm's length.

And then, of course, there is feminism. Throughout university all I heard was how women wanted to be treated like men in EVERY regard. Women made it clear that they don't want to be treated like women. They want to be treated like men. Men are very direct with other men. "wanna go for a beer?", "you were a complete asshole when you made this statement.", "Yeah, you are fat. Start going to the gym". Men are direct by nature, the act of seduction only exists because it is what women wanted. Chivalry only existed because it is what women wanted. Then women started telling men that they don't want that anymore. Women started to tell men that they didn't want men to fight for them anymore. They told men that they wanted men to think of women the way they thought of other men. When women drilled these concepts into the minds of a generation of men, what did they expect the result would be? It is women who destroyed a man's role in the dance of life, it is women who took away men's ability to be men. And this "rediscovery of men's roles in life" can now only be limited by what women want. If women truly are cheering for men to rediscover themselves, then this whole thing was done by women, either consciously or subconsciously, in order to manipulate men into become what women want them to become because it is women who destroyed the version of men that was created by men. In other words, you aren't cheering for men to rediscover their masculinity, you are cheering for men to DISCOVER the masculinity that you like. It's like when you torture someone, first you break them. Break the bonds that keep them going, break their faith, break their minds, THAN you try to rebuild them in a manner that you see fit using psychological techniques such as positive reinforcement, all the while trying to convince them that their old self was wrong, and that you made them better, but in reality, all you did was make them better for YOU.

It is feminism that created a world of man against woman and women against men. There was a time when men NEEDED women, and women NEEDED men. Where their skills and abilities complimented each other. Feminism has turned each individual human into an island, capable of sustaining themselves at the cost of efficiency. They stripped men of their assets, their aspiration, and even their fatherhood. They've turned women into manipulative, greedy, self-rightous and entitled creatures undeserving of the love and commitment that they crave

I'm not saying that these ideas are red pill, I don't even think of myself as red pill, I just happen to agree with the things that they say. In my view, women have rejected the core of what men are and that created two different kinds of men. Men who changed for women in hopes of pleasing women, and men who were too proud to change. Those men, the ones that refused to change, those ones found ways to get what they wanted the most out of women, without changing themselves. It isn't up to men to rediscover their masculinity, it is up to women to accept the versions of men that they (women) created. A lot of men are ok with feeling lonely as long as they get sex especially now that they are seeing that marriage and common law leads to one-sided alimony and child support, and the lack of a man's ability to see his own children. It is women who (at least as research shows) require and yearn for commitment and who now have control over long term relationships, therefore, it is women's responsibility to make an incentive for men actually want to love and commit to women, instead of just look for ways to get sex out of them.

HansProleman · 2015-12-28T22:52:15+00:00

People enjoy spending time with people who make them feel at ease and accepted. When you view romantic relationships as some sort of dominance/resource struggle, even though you don't vocalise it, that's going to bleed through.

hyperrreal · 2015-12-28T23:03:56+00:00

This guy, Zan Perrion, is missing the point in my opinion. You can only love others if you love yourself first. That sounds cliche, but it's a tremendously difficult practice.

The issue isn't how X or Y men relate to women. It's how those men relate to themselves. Men that are present and self-compassionate are going to relate well to others. Men that are neurotic and consumed by self-contempt are going to turn others off (unless the person has a complimentary neurosis).

I don't think there can be any argument that ideally men and women would love each authentically, similar to what your OP describes.

But where I think you're being unfair to /r/TheRedPill, is that their hypothesis is that women are essentially neurotic. And as a result men can't be vulnerable or authentic to/with them, because women will lash out and hurt them.

The reason I bring this up is not that I agree with /r/TheRedPill here, but to try and reposition the debate. Because the issue for me isn't which approach is better, but can you be open and loving without getting burned?

I would say yes, you can. And that being more open/authentic will attract people of a similar spirit. But it's a considerably more nuanced discussion.

Xemnas81 · 2015-12-28T22:02:44+00:00

http://therationalmale.com/2011/12/05/build-a-better-beta/

mashakos · 2015-12-28T23:31:54+00:00

you like sensual guys, it's cool. Not all women like that template.

demerera · 2015-12-28T23:37:32+00:00

You know those guys who just flirt with every woman - your mum, your sister, your friends, strangers- these guys are so fun and easy to be around. Flirting with them isn't some big deal, it's just lighthearted. I lived with a guy like this last year, and he got girls like crazy, and is average looking. Being too intense is definately a turnoff, being charming to everyone is a turn on. Women love men who appreciate women

ThorLives · 2015-12-29T00:18:42+00:00

I have to admit, there are times when I've thought: "women don't love men, they love what men can do for them and how men make them feel". Said that way, it makes it seem like women's love has some narcissism mixed into it. As far as your quotes, there's a very strong element of a man needing to pedestalize women and supplicate to women's desires (although it sounds negative if I state it that way) - like he's her unpaid bodyguard/therapist/cheerleader/etc. Personally, a lot of these quotes sound like a man needs to lose himself in servitude to her in order for him to be attractive. Hey, maybe that works for women, but it's unlikely to work for him. Who wants to be someone's personal slave? Read the quotes again, and read it with this thought "Women's love is based in self-centeredness" - the quotes: "these men love women with all their hearts... A man makes other women jealous of his girl... would happily share everything with her... Be excellent with us, woo us, seduce us, make us believe again!" It makes sense from an evo-psych perspective for love to be self-centered.

Let's break it down: "men who love women, are loved by women". First, men who are easily successful with women (because they are good looking, emotionally well-adjusted, have had it easy in life perhaps due to being born wealthy) will find it easier to love women. On the other hand, men who aren't good looking, who's romantic desires are not reciprocated, are not well educated, and grew up in the school of hard knocks will tend to be cynical about women - this stemming from the fact that their romantic desires aren't reciprocated because they lack the "value" to be desirable. In that sense, the cause and effect are the opposite of they way you think it flows - being rejected frequently leads to bitterness. I once heard a quote that "a misogynist is just a jaded romantic". Here's one example: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/327115-becoming-misogynist

I have a friend who's slept with quite a number of women. He really likes people and women. He has kind of a happy-go-lucky vibe about him. In many ways, he mirrors the quotes you listed. On the downside, he's short, small, and he's a stoner. He also tends to think that women are quite a lot more attractive than I would rate them. For example, he'd meet some girl who's not very attractive, and he'd think she's great. As a result, he's slept with a lot of women, but all of them are around average or below. One of my very attractive female friends said of him, "If he ever hit on me, I think I'd puke". He's never able to get really attractive women. I think he does better as himself than he'd do as a RedPiller, but he does have his limits on the girls he can get. In that sense, no matter how much he loves a particular woman, she's only going to reciprocate if his "value" is high enough, and for many women, it isn't.

Lonny_zone · 2015-12-29T01:41:00+00:00

These are all worthless if you fail at "being attractive," but exceed expectations at being "unattractive."

Chris Hemsworth does this? He is Thor.

Danny DeVito does this? He is the Penguin.

MrFuckupKing · 2015-12-29T16:10:22+00:00

IMO It is a mistake to give a woman the experience you are describing because they can never get enough of a man like this.

A man like this is forced to keep women at arms length to avoid women becoming addicted to him.

In general women are emotionally high strung which leads them to being jealous,envious, possessive, paranoid and controlling.

Sorry, but the women of the world are simply not ready for the type of man or love you are describing.

That motherfucker gets it but he does not get the danger of giving what he gets.

exit_sandman · 2015-12-29T06:40:03+00:00

When reading the bullet points, I had to think of this.

[deleted] · 2015-12-29T16:17:50+00:00

Good shit on a while ton of levels.

I have loved women all my life and after finally building up my body, career, and confidence, I can say that taking real joy in having women friends (and lovers) is next level shit. If you cannot do this the relationship game will always be antagonistic for you, no matter how hot you are.

SteelChicken · 2015-12-29T14:46:09+00:00

"A man who loves women has no need or desire to take anything from a woman, and yet would happily share everything with her. His respect for her is supreme, and yet if she spends any time in his presence at all, he will bend her over without hesitation.....men don't understand this, and women do."

Nope, the pedastal is not real, its imaginary.

"Women are waiting to be seduced again, to feel something, anything, for men to show up as men, for men to rediscover their role in the dance of life. Women are secretly cheering for men, wanting them to be excellent, wanting men to know that they are on their side. Be excellent with us, woo us, seduce us, make us believe again!"

Do all the work, make us feel special, feed our EGOS

RareBlur · 2015-12-29T04:17:17+00:00

A man who loves himself is loved by women.

Xemnas81 · 2015-12-29T16:14:33+00:00

/u/Xemnas81

This is the sort of thing I advocate, it's nothing like redpill, but it's not really SJW bluepill.

I think I jokingly called it the 'fuckboi pill' in the past

mwefkjnfkjnwe · 2015-12-29T16:52:35+00:00

Truth be told this works. All you gotta do is find what is missing in a woman's life and give it to her. Just don't go all pussy with this shit. It's a fine line, and you only stay on the right side of that line by remembering what you're in the game for.

youcantdenythat · 2015-12-29T17:05:54+00:00

Whereas RPers just seems so hard, uncomfortable, cynical, and vindictive in their interactions with women. I don't detect any joy or fun, just an undercurrent of insecurity and bitterness in all the field reports.

That's because you're reading discussions between men. Men communicate differently then women. They don't need to dress everything up in flowers and lace.

Have you actually talked to an RP man? There isn't any reason in the world that Zan Perrion or the guy he describes isn't red pill. Red pill is simply methods and advice on how to be the guy most women want to be with.

Bottom line. You are reading behind-the-scene commentary without looking at the actual show and then jumping to the wrong conclusions.

dallasdarling · 2015-12-29T18:45:00+00:00

"There is a subset of men who move among women with ease. Who are these men and why are they allowed to roam unhindered in the land of women?....We assume it is things like animal magnetism and confidence, the ability to light up a room with sheer force of presence....Why do these men seem to have this presence while others do not? The answer is simple: these men love women with all their hearts."

This is my bf. He's got terrible social anxiety, depression, is quite introverted. But he's great with women. He makes friends easily, and the vast majority of his friends are female. They love and trust him. And one reason is that he doesn't use that to try to sleep with them. Because, attracted though he might be, he doesn't actually think of them as a piece of ass. Because they are people.

[deleted] · 2015-12-29T21:09:06+00:00

Take away the flowery language and each of these points is consistent with TRP principles.

Point 1: women love to spend time around men they find attractive.
Point 2 describes the concept of pre-selection.
Point 3: "he will bend her over without hesitation." Self explanatory.
Point 4: women are attracted to strong, successful men.
Point 5: "they are massively generous to men who love women". Women will have sex with men who know how to seduce them.

[deleted] · 2015-12-30T08:24:59+00:00

RPers just seems so hard, uncomfortable, cynical, and vindictive in their interactions with women

The discussions had on TRP and elsewhere on Reddit are not "interactions with women".

[deleted] · 2015-12-31T18:54:00+00:00

Whereas RPers just seems so hard, uncomfortable, cynical, and vindictive in their interactions with women. I don't detect any joy or fun, just an undercurrent of insecurity and bitterness in all the field reports.

You're basing your view on the 1% of guys who read trp who take the time to write out field reports in locker room talk. Most of the men who understand trp and can apply it do exactly what you describe, they bask in femine energy.

The difference in what they do vs what you describe is they bask in feminine energy without becoming feminine themselves which allows the women they are with to bask in their masculine energy. Women are attracted to masculinity as much as men are attracted to femininity.

belletaco · 2015-12-28T22:11:04+00:00

All things considered, if I were single, I much rather sleep with an emotive Casanova rather than a hardened and cynical terper.

Easily

prodigy2throw · 2015-12-28T23:34:55+00:00

You must be high

Title	"men who love women, are loved by women"
Author	philomexa
Upvotes	16
Comments	120
Date	December 28, 2015 9:46 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3ykn8q/men_who_love_women_are_loved_by_women/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/men-who-love-women-are-loved-by-women.277460 https://theredarchive.com/post/277460

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