Blue and purple pill women: have you ever been attracted to a man who for all intents and purposes was low SMV, particularly because he was nice, kind, respectful, honest and non-misogynistic? Have you ever been unattracted to a man because of his misogyny and manipulation?

chasingstatues · 2015-12-08T01:50:59+00:00

Speaking for myself:

It's really easy for a hot guy's personality to make him unattractive to me. There have been lots of guys who turned me off the minute I got to know them better. Being an asshole, being obnoxious (big pet peeve for me), childish, too needy or too ambivalent, too self-important, narcissistic, generally acting like a meme-generating social media whore. Even having really bad taste in things, like if he went to see The Avengers in theater more than once. (I'm like a female Larry David.) I can still understand that someone might be "objectively" or widely regarded as attractive, but based on factors like this, they can render themselves completely unappealing.

On the other hand, while it's not that often that I feel sexually aroused by someone who's typically considered ugly, it has happened. I'd say it's infrequency is due to the fact that it generally takes time because you have to get to know the guy. Unless, of course, he's really charming or funny and cool upfront. Niceness won't do it by itself without those other traits, either. Not being nice is a turn off, but being nice isn't a turn on all on its own.

And all of this is speaking within reason, of course. I'd still think Michael Fassbender was hot if he turned out to be an asshole (just not to me) and I'd still think a smelly whale of a basement dweller was ugly if he was really nice.

prodigy2throw · 2015-12-08T01:07:03+00:00

I suppose my ex was "low SMV." He was overweight, had acne scars, very nerdy, shy, didn't dress well, came from a really low-class family (dad's in prison for making meth, mom ditched him when he was a kid so he was raised by his grandparents.) We dated in college and he worked at a call center, so he was pretty broke.

We met on OKC and I messaged him first. I did so because he seemed really passionate about his career path (we were both studying to be teachers) and we liked a lot of the same writers and music. When we met in person it was one of those things where you feel like you've known them forever. I was very attracted to him. He was and is one of the best people I've ever met; genuinely kind and selfless. (Full disclosure, he also had three of my big physical criteria going for him -- dark hair, nice teeth, and glasses.)

We dated for about eight months, had a great relationship and sex life. We broke up for reasons totally unrelated to attraction -- namely, distance and lack of shared interests. He initiated the breakup. We're still friends. He has a girlfriend now who seems very nice and is much prettier than I am. He's also a lot more attractive now; he's lost weight and started dressing better.

impossibleworlds · 2015-12-08T01:24:50+00:00

I have never been attracted to a truly low SMV, ugly loser that you describe regardless of him being a nice person or not.

However I am into novelty, so I frequently find myself attracted to guys who don't fit into the RP "Chad" archetype.

I have absolutely been turned off by men who were high on external SMV who turned out to be truly ugly/evil on the inside.

3dbattleship · 2015-12-08T02:10:19+00:00

Short, overweight, low-status jobs, poor, socially awkward for sure. Ugly is hard to say, because once I like someone, they BECOME good-looking in my eyes. I don't really factor my own attractiveness into it, I don't really feel like it's a competition. But, for what it's worth, I'm thin and next year I'll make more than everyone I've ever seriously dated will make combined. I've heard a lot of "you deserve better" whenever I'm in a relationship. But I don't feel like I "deserve" anything but someone who loves me for who I am and who I love without question, and so that's what I get and it makes me happy.

I don't really get that initial hit of "that man's attractive". All of my attraction comes from personality. I can't say I've really fallen for standard "nice guy" behavior, but what I usually fall for are very smart people who make me feel cared for emotionally. I tend to fall for my close friends once they've shown me real nurturing behavior, and they've all been very quick thinkers- puzzlers, gamers. But I know I'm unusual.

tinytiger4321 · 2015-12-08T01:22:13+00:00

yes and yes.

i fell for a guy in high school who was a little chubby, had some interesting fashion, and pretty nerdy, by most high school standards; into computer science, band, filming himself and friends in cosplay/reenactment videos of their favorite movies and shows... we were in high school, so i'm going to skip the job question because no one really has high status jobs in high school. he was always nice to me even though i was really shy and had a hard time socializing. he would often send his friends on their way to spend time with me if the situation arose, and for a long time, we would meet after/in between classes as often as possible. the few times i did ask for help with something he was happy to do so. he also did basic gestures of kindness, like opening doors, etc. etc. i liked that he was kind to me, and he was attractive to me regardless of what anyone else thought so i fell for him. there was another guy that stands out in my memory who was more conventionally attractive... but he was the first guy who ever checked in with me during sex/intimacy to make sure i was okay. that was a new experience, and i immediately felt so much safer and more comfortable with him.

years later, i met another guy, and he was handsome, clean cut, well-dressed, and appeared confident and interested in me so i responded in kind. he remains, to this day, one of the worst people i've had the misfortune of encountering. i initially chalked his behavior up to misunderstanding, my inexperience, or simply the usual differences that occur between people, but really, he was just a crap person. he seemed to believe i should be subservient to him, and frequently tried to dictate my clothing, hairstyles, makeup, and so on. he tried to guilt me into buying him (expensive) things often, really laying it on if i said no (because i was still working a part time retail job that wouldn't even allow me to live on my own). he either wouldn't take no for an answer if we were getting intimate, or got upset and angry if i fought back too hard. he screamed, and threw things, and punched walls. he borrowed money for new years one night after explaining that he needed it to bring drinks to a friend's party that i couldn't attend because i was working, and i found out later that he used it to take some other girl out... and that was it. i hated the way he behaved and treated me, so, i left.

demerera · 2015-12-08T01:29:25+00:00

I was casually sleeping with a guy for about 2 years - his SMV wasn't really low, but it was lower than mine, and lower than the guys I usually date. I thought he was quite attractive, but friends rated him a 4/10, he was shy and very socially awkward, and had a low status job. But the sex was good, and he was always very respectful, never talked about me behind my back, very forgiving, considerate and kind. I wouldn't say I fell for him ,and id never date him because conversation was awkward, but I slept with him dozens of times, which TRP seems to think is the most valid way of judging a relationship.

I don't know if this is the sort of example you're interred in, but its the closest I have in my own life

[deleted] · 2015-12-08T03:14:04+00:00

Have you ever been attracted to a man who for all intents and purposes was low SMV, particularly because he was nice, kind, respectful, honest and non-misogynistic?

No.

short, ugly, overweight, unemployed, low status jobs, poor, small/thin penis, few friends, shy, socially awkward, clumsily dressed, poor hygiene, etc.

I've been with guys who had some of those characteristics, but not all or most of them. A few of those things I don't really care about, some of them are deal breakers.

Have you ever been unattracted to a man because of his misogyny and manipulation?

Yes. I'd rather be single than with a bigot so those things are a huge dealbreaker for me. I also don't expect a guy to give women free passes just cuz they're a woman, or let me walk all over them. etc etc.

[deleted] · 2015-12-08T04:23:32+00:00

I think, because I've read up on trp, that the second they start playing their little games, I tune right in, and don't give in to it. Just shut it down. I don't tolerate rude, or controlling. The second a man shows these traits, I'm done. No matter how high his smv is.

heredpill · 2015-12-08T07:51:10+00:00

I have been madly in love with men who fit the following on your list:

ugly(ish), low status jobs, poor, small/thin penis, few friends, shy, socially awkward... Bonus points if he is less attractive than you-e.g. he is overweight, you are slim+toned.

This was the red pill guy I dated. He wasn't overweight but was skinny in an unattractive way. The thing was that his actions weren't at all misogynistic- IN THE BEGINNING. He was somewhat sweet, as was his nature, I think, which he was trying to "overcome" through red pill. And I didn't recognize that he was being manipulative for a long time.

Before him I only ever dated nice, kind, respectful, honest, non-misogynistic guys. Most guys I've dated were self-described feminists.

The guy I'm dating now bends over backwards to do nice things for me, he opens doors, pays for everything (I actually had to ask him to stop taking me on such expensive dates as it made me feel awkward- I don't like men spending a lot of money on me), is a feminist, is really sweet, would be considered (sorry baby) low smv, in that he's a bit socially awkward and not terribly good looking- but I guess he'd be somewhat high smv because he's rich?

Anyways I am fucking ragingingly turned on by this guy. Not in a looking at him across a crowded room and be like, wow, kind of way. Not in a "I'm so excited to introduce him to my friends because he'll be impressive" kind of way. More in a close up kind of way. His touch makes me insane. His smell makes me want to lick every inch of his body. His kisses are amazing. We regularly have simultaneous Os- something that NEVER has happened with any other guy. And I think about him nonstop.

And he's super respectful, nice, kind, gentle, etc. I wouldn't call him beta exactly- he can stand up for himself and tells me if he's unhappy. But he texts me all day every day, he doesn't play push pull games, and he's very consistent and pays a lot of attention to me. I love that he's nice and respectful and consistent. It kind of troubles me that he's not immediately impressive, but I like him so much that it doesn't matter.

Attraction is a bit of a mystery. Red pill would definitely say I shouldn't be attracted to this guy, but I am.

edit: I should also mention that I waited 6 months to have sex with him. I was very turned on by him and we made out a lot but I have trust problems (mostly because of hte red pill guy) and didn't feel good about sleeping with him right away. He was somewhat frustrated by this but still respectful and still recognized that it was my decision and wasn't pushy about it. His attitude was basically, yeah, I'd like to have sex but I'll wait til you're ready.

worldtraveler1234 · 2015-12-08T05:47:12+00:00

Being nice, friendly, respectful, and non-misogynistic only makes hot guys more attractive. If a guy is physically attractive and an asshole, I am turned off by his personality. But if a guy is already hot, being nice only makes him hotter.

The problem is that unattractive guys blame their luck with women on personality traits instead of on the fact that they probably need to lose weight, lift weights, and get some interests/style.

RedTentMaiden · 2015-12-08T04:03:43+00:00

I posted my answer in another thread, but I wanted to expand on this here. When I met my lover, who I've been with for nearly three years, I didn't find him particularly attractive. He was short, chubby, awkward, not the best dresser. Generally speaking, not my type. I basically was trying to figure out how to escape without gnawing my arm off at the elbow. That said, once we started talking, it was like we were old friends, like we've never not known each other. We laughed and riffed off of each other, talking about books and other nerdy interests we shared. I thought to myself, at least the date isn't a total loss... I've made a great friend! Someone who is kind, funny, gentle, who honestly cares about other people. And then he kissed me... And the fire of that first kiss has only grown over the years. This weak looking man can somehow fuck me standing while holding me in his strong arms, directing each thrust. He can pleasure and excite me for hours on end, to the point where I'm begging for more. I absolutely adore him, in every single way, and it starts with his amazing personality that just makes me glow effusively. I often wonder how much more amazing he would be without the gut, with better grooming and fashion sense, but in the end, my attraction to him is based first and foremost on his "beta" traits. I've also been with traditionally good looking, fit men who exhibited dark triad traits, and it was those very traits that I saw right through and was ultimately repulsed by. Some men seem to think that they're subtle in their manipulations, and perhaps a less savvy young woman is susceptible, but this is not my first rodeo. Eventually their conservative, misogynistic viewpoints would slip through, but aside from that - pretty boys grow up never having to try very hard. The world is given to them on a silver platter, so they never learned to work on communication, building relationships, keeping friendships, or mastering the giving as well as receiving of sexual pleasure. That lack of effort is very unattractive to me. Just in case it matters, I am told that I'm a fairly solid catch; objectively, let's give my current lover a 4-6/10 based on outward appearance, and myself a 7-9/10 based on outward appearance. From looks alone, which is how we are judged in public, there's a three point spread. Assuming that I am subject to hypergamy, how is it that he bests men that are my equal or even higher SMV? Well... He's better than they were TO ME. Kinder, sweeter, more attentive, more thoughtful, funnier, a better kisser, and a damn better lover. I wouldn't trade him for anything or anyone else. He's all I want or need, and to me, that's what being a true alpha is: quietly making others want to be led by you, rather than commanding that they follow or else.

LordFishFinger · 2015-12-08T08:21:18+00:00

What's wrong with having few friends? No friends I'd understand, but is it really considered unattractive to just have a bunch?

your_mom_on_drugs · 2015-12-08T08:30:15+00:00

I am looking for stories where the man that you fell for was, by conventional terms, unattractive and a loser. Ideally I would like examples of how he was a genuinely nice guy-friendly, respectful and not misogynistic.

Yes, but I wasn't attracted to him because of those things. I was just attracted because he seemed "weird", because I was a teenaged edgelord and I thought that anything weird was automatically good. Basically I was being a hipster, "you like attractive men who aren't cripplingly insecure? pffft, that's so mainstream! The guy I like has such severe social phobia he can't go outside without having a panic attack! Plus he hears voices and believes he was born on an alien space ship."

So yeah, he had schizophrenia, and it turns out that actual insanity isn't as fun to deal with as a teenager imagines it is. I am pretty sure his mother also had it or some milder manifestation. His brother was also schizophrenic. Strong genetic component in that family. I ran away before anything happened because honestly I didn't understand half the conversations in that house, nothing made any sense, and I felt guilty talking about myself (which I love to do) around people who had such clear and severe problems.

EDIT: as for the misogyny and manipulation question, honestly never met a guy like that IRL. Or none that were so much like that it was noticeable.

ozymandias271 · 2015-12-08T17:08:38+00:00

This is a bit of an odd question for me to answer, because I actually prefer overweight men, small penises, and shyness/social awkwardness. So, yes, of course I have dated and am dating men in those categories!

To be honest, "nice, kind, respectful, honest, and non-misogynistic" is sort of like saying "this car has wheels!" It's a basic expectation, not a selling point. I have refused to date men who didn't treat me well, though.

thecitttty · 2015-12-08T10:14:41+00:00

My ex of 3 years was seriously overweight and made around $35K when we met. He was also very progressive and genuinely respectful toward me and other women - nothing of the "nice guy" about him. I was in my early twenties and pretty damn hot.

We had known each other for a while before he took an interest. I'm not sure that I eventually reciprocated because of his good character qualities, although I would definitely have been put off by any hints of misogyny. I definitely reciprocated in spite of his weight.

He got to me by playfully flirting a bunch - mostly teasing and joking, with very little sexual innuendo. I got really excited by him after a few months and we started hooking up, which eventually led to a relationship.

At the other end of the spectrum, I've had a few attractive guys flirt with me while dropping obvious hints of misogyny. A roommate's very cute friend was once visiting and wanted to watch Cruel Intentions with me. Throughout the movie, he kept making disparaging comments about how slutty the female characters were due to hooking up with the main character right away. At the end of the movie, he turned to me and asked if I wanted to make out! Nope.

fish_launcher · 2015-12-10T19:40:38+00:00

Yes, and yes. I remember meeting this guy. He didn't get laid all that much, broke, lower-class drug dealer etc. But when I got to know him, he was really caring and sweet, and smart with a good sense of humour. At first, I was a little uncomfortable, because I felt that I could do better (not to brag, but I'm around 9.5), but then I realized I couldn't, because I'd never met such an empathetic, respectful, and honest person in my life.

At the time I was dating a typical alpha male. He was hot, driven, rich, and smart, but he was a manipulative bastard. Looking back, I feel disgusted with myself for dating such an ass.

So I left him or the first one, and after we started dating, he started working out because he wanted to make me happy. It touched my heart, and I told him he didn't have to. The dude's really LTR material.

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