I was banned from and censored on The Red Pill. The Red Pill has a cult-like influence, and is destructive toward the mental health of some posters.

Cyralea · 2015-07-30T15:30:44+00:00

Sounds like you were concern trolling bud. Are you surprised that you got banned? That's strictly against the sub's rules.

exit_sandman · 2015-07-30T15:53:34+00:00

TRP as well as other dark areas of the manosphere are not interested in seeing you succeed in life and succeed with women; they’re interested in selling you products,

Dammit, I could have kept those 0€ I spent on TRP!

max_peenor · 2015-07-30T15:35:54+00:00

I really don't understand you people that go to TRP and say shit like this and are confused when you get banned. TRP isn't a debate dub, I don't know how y'all came under the impression that it was.

wazzup987 · 2015-07-30T15:54:06+00:00

1.First i can't imagine why you got banned. /s

second pual elam and /u/girlwriteswhat are mras, pual elam is not RP, and GWW may have some RP leanings but she could speak to that better than i could. also pual elam youtube channel has like 13000 subs, that not ecactly the lime light.

But you point is correct, roosh, rollo, GLO, et al all want to sell you shit. you your wrong on the specific but right on the core premises

2 you can't make the claim with doing a longitudinal study of pre and post RP people and and controls, and even then it would be VERY SHAKEY.

3 nothing about that is RP.

Also i dont think RP ever claimed to be a free speech zone.

Purpuru · 2015-07-30T15:39:08+00:00

(so much for TRP being a calling grounds of "free speech")

Have they ever claimed this? A virtual "locker room" is not the same as calling for free speech.

PedroIsWatching · 2015-07-30T17:34:23+00:00

Did OP just nuke his account or was he banned?

max_peenor · 2015-07-30T18:41:43+00:00

submitted 3 hours ago * by [deleted]

Boom headshot. heh I'm calling it. It was a false-flag attempt. Too much wordy horseshit.

cloudstryfe · 2015-07-30T17:52:08+00:00

Isn't PPD supposed to be about topics encouraging debate? I don't see the point of this post.

Zorc_the_Pork · 2015-07-30T18:07:40+00:00

I know one data point does not counter (completely) your argument, but here is my data for your five points:

I had an absolutely fantastic relationship with my mother. I was her favorite child (of 4), having such a strong mother - she went back to school after the kids were in grade school and got a second degree in computer science, working in the industry when it was 90% male.
My Dad was a (mostly) positive male role model. He made boat-loads of money, probably over $3 million by the time he was 50. His only problem: he couldn't keep his dick in his pants. Which I found particularly funny, because he claimed to be a very devout religious man. He was a fantastic provider. If anything, I'd call him an AB - Alpha Bucks.
Mentally unbalanced? I'm a senior manager at work, I make big money in a metropolitan city. I have a healthy LTR. One thing I will concede - exercising is very helpful, maybe even critical for good mental health.
Lack of dating life? What? I went on my first date in fifth grade - when I was eleven. By the time I was 15 I was dating seniors - even cheerleaders. At college I played a Division 1 sport, it gave me immediate pre-selection from women, they saw me as "manly". If anything when dating, I have a touch of oneitis because I like LTR's because they are safer disease-wise.
Insecurity issues - nope, I have IDGAF attitude. Once, in my 20's I told a girl that I had a bad crush on, that "I'd do anything for you". Her pussy dried up so fast it made my head spin. She'd continue to come over to my house to have sex with me, because "she couldn't help herself, your body is too good", - but she never saw me as relationship material after me gushing all over her. I learned the hard way.

Purpuru · 2015-07-30T16:52:25+00:00

+/u/User_Simulator /u/crimson-hound

Xemnas81 · 2015-07-30T17:35:50+00:00

Wall of text that I don't have time to wade through, but I do agree with this part:

Lack of positive masculine identity.

I had fairly radfem girlfriend point this out to me in the early 90s. Back then a book called Iron John came out which many credit with starting the "men's movement." It was widely mocked, but she did agree that men need something to stand for that is uniquely masculine.

I feel the same way, but I think David Deida is a better spokesman than TRP.

mr_one_liner · 2015-07-30T18:05:55+00:00

Several points to address:

Some of us have become increasingly isolated from our friends and family.

Much like how fitness noobs try to break away from an enabling family, or like coming out of the closet as gay. "I came not to bring peace, but a sword." -Matthew 10:24. Even becoming a Christian in a family of something else is fraught with the people you once new, and how they will try to revert you.

So what's the difference between the righteous will of a man set free, and the freedom of an unfettered man out to hurt himself and others? Mental illness. No, TRP does not cause mental illness, but both TRP and TBP contains people who are ill. It's one of the main problems of our time: an ill person with agency (being rich, TRP, gun ownership, all examples of agency-giving situations) causes problems. How to solve this? Certainly not making people poor. Certainly not banning guns (debatable). Certainly not banning thought.

It seems to me that the red pill's cult influence stems from the following

1 & 2 can be true (it is for me) without denying TRP: it is part of what is wrong with life as a male in the western world. It does not mean that TRP is wrong, indeed, an explanation of what is ticking some men off so much would help to explain it, and why it is necessary.

This means that you simply understand their nature and why they are the way they are-accept it.

This is exactly what TRP says. Women (and men) are a certain way.

I strongly suggest that all red pillers who feel a deep seated resentment toward the female sex to seek out therapy.

Except that therapists are very much in the feminist sphere. Unless you get a TRP shrink, it won't solve your problem. There's almost nowhere to go for a TRP man to work this out except with other TRP friends, and since they aren't in a professional environment, it's like having a back-alley abortion - dangerous until they make it legal. (Or in TRP's case, "socially legal")

The red pill is a cult that is held together by the 5 possible points of issue

Re:cult... So there's a group that bands together due to some shared affliction. In that group, there are some who try to make money off of it. If you disagree with the group, they kick you out in order to affirm to those who are still aggrieved that their grievance has merit. This could be ANY group of sufficient aggrievance gathered in a place: TRP, feminism, rape survivors, PC Master Race, Occupy, Arab Spring, the Tea Party. Subreddits, forums, meetups, clubs, conventions. None are called "cults" until the subject matter is one that the observer thinks is toxic.

not interested in seeing you succeed in life interested in selling you products

Of course someone is trying to make money off of the movement. People were trying to sell 9/11 memorial t-shirts in Manhattan the day after. But the presence of those types of people does not point to them controlling the movement. Is body shaming controlled by the diet industry?

The red pill is generally harmful to your overall happiness.

Me not understanding women and being lonely was a sad thing. Me being happily married to my first mate is not. There is a point in TRP to be made for "the world sucks, so get used to it". This is generally said to eliminate the sense of entitlement all the new people still have. It's taking these people who are dependent on happiness from others, and making them into people who get their joy from inside. It's the exact same thing as a motivational poster, except the lesson is much better retained cause the new guy earned it. So just because these truths are hard to swallow, and people are generally mad or sad to see their worldview collapse, does not mean TRP makes you less happy.

These are not red pill beliefs at their core

Many views encourage self-improvement. That they share them with other views does not mean you can extricate them from the TRP view, especially when much of TRP's influence is spent drilling into men's head that you almost HAVE to self-improve. Indeed, some of these maxims are not shared by others at all; consider improving yourself vs acceptance, a man taking the initiative vs "if you love someone, set them free", and "walking away" vs "beta orbiter".

Thanks for posting. Have an upvote.

alreadyredschool · 2015-07-30T16:46:21+00:00

As we stayed, our resentment and bitterness toward women and relationships grew.

Wrong.

Some posters have clear family issues with their own sisters and mothers.

I have four sisters and a great connection to my mom.

...

life’s not fair and that’s just the way it is.

Sorry, I just can't keep reading this bullshit. Life is fair, accept that, then try to make a better thread.

Xemnas81 · 2015-07-30T15:28:27+00:00

ITT: Guy unplugs, becomes AF, becomes jaded by it, becomes AB, turns virtuous alpha, takes example of dread game=all RP, concludes AWALT means literally all women dread game for fun. Is then banned from TRP sub for trying to plug self back in.

Good points raised and sincerely sorry to hear of your struggle. However, I do think there is a pattern in terms of what the red pill can teach us re: intergender dynamics and sexual indeed ROMANTIC strategy in a postmodern post-feminist West.

Red_Placebo · 2015-07-30T16:55:14+00:00

Is this written by a woman pretending to be a man?

Archwinger · 2015-07-30T17:46:52+00:00

I read this entire thing and realized it's absolutely correct, and TRP has made my life so much worse. I've decided to change.

No, wait. I haven't because I'm the happiest I've ever been. As are my wife and daughter.

I owe it all to hating women and changing to become a more traditional, "toxic" masculine figure.

hippydipster · 2015-07-30T16:45:04+00:00

The essence of your argument is ad hominem, from your 5 things RP "stems from". By this reasoning I could just assign you to the "broken" category due to your own history, and then discount everything you say.

Now, that doesn't mean you're incorrect, but it does mean if you are correct, it's not for the right reasons.

Also, your definition of a cult needs work. By your definition, there are A LOT of cults here on reddit. Overblown vocabulary, like using the terms "toxic masculinity" and "misogyny". These have become meaningless terms.

So, probably they banned you because you're not providing an argument based on reason, facts, or evidence about their beliefs about women. Personally, I think banning and deleting is just incredibly childish. I've been banned from several subs for much less than what you've done here. I think it's a pretty destructive fad that has infected reddit in the last couple years. People are social justice warring in their own domains. Mostly simply because they can. You wrote nothing other than what you honestly think, and you should be commended for that, not banned. Course, doesn't make it a good argument, as I've pointed out, but still, it's infinitely better than so many who are just there to be yes men and provide echos.

hyperrreal · 2015-07-30T18:44:59+00:00

This title isn't even close to neutral.

Red_Placebo · 2015-07-30T16:43:52+00:00

I like your use of the word Toxic Masculinity, that's the phrase I've been looking for I think.

It is toxic, this self indulgent version of masculinity, this false competitiveness and unnecessary assholery in our lovely protected world. So much of it relies on what you point out here, and the need to protect their mirage from anyone who might swish their hand through it and destroy the illusion. Turning masculinity into a checklist of endeavors to optimize the mating scores, to find or craft a docile and unchallenging partner. Claiming all the while to see the natural state they have created another modern twisting of the human condition.

/r/marriedredpill is worse. Those men give out terrible advice to each other.

wtknight · 2015-07-30T17:11:15+00:00

1) I don't think that the Red Pill is in a sense a classic cult as there is no centralized organized charismatic leadership. Also many of the "leaders" of the movement are also denigrated by quite a few members of the community itself. It's an echobox circlejerk, yes, a cult, no.

2) I agree with your point somewhat about the happiness of Red Pillers. However, most Red Pillers see their happiness tied into achieving sexual intercourse, and if The Red Pill pragmatically helps get them sex, then they are happier and thus all aspects of The Red Pill become absolutely true to them. However, I would venture to say that any Blue Piller in a well-adjusted relationship is much, much, happier than your typical Red Piller. The Red Pill is the last refuge of the desperate, and is used by those who realize that they are never going to really like and respect women and be able to find sex that way and have to resort to radical self-improvement and misogynist philosophies to get any semblance of happiness in life. However, this happiness is inferior to the happiness that well-adjusted Blue Pillers get out of their relationships, and every Blue Piller knows it which is why many who identify as Blue Pill don't really hate Red Pillers as much as they pity them.

3) I agree with you here. Many like myself have used the self-improvement techniques that Red Pill likes to claim as their own, while at the same time not claiming that women are inferior and aren't in control of their own sexual choices.

[deleted] · 2015-07-30T17:17:28+00:00

I will agree with you on only one thing. I do believe TRP is destructive to the mental health of some posters.

barbadosslim · 2015-07-30T17:49:14+00:00

Duh, they're crazy as duck.

raouldukeesq · 2015-07-30T18:07:13+00:00

Redpillars are hilarious! There is not an actual “Alpha” on the planet that would ever participate in such a forum. Redpillars are quintessential “Betas” pretending to be “Alphas.”

RedPillars are, without question, sopolistic, hamstering beta’s who do nothing but cry and whine and do everything in their power to not take responsibility for their own predicaments and blame the rest of the world. They also are completely unable to listen to any opposing view. In response to contrary opinions and evidence they engage in censorship.

grendalor · 2015-07-30T17:26:54+00:00

Well, sheesh.

I've always viewed the manosphere as a clearing-house of ideas, techniques, approaches, life-hacks for guys. It's too diverse to be a cult, and too many branches of it disagree too much with each other -- e.g., PUAs vs. MGTOWs vs. MRAs vs. TRPs. These are all different groups, with different ideas -- they share some things in common, but they also have a lot of very obvious differences and disagreements.

Most guys drop by the manosphere, find some things that are useful, use them, and then move on to something else. Generally that's how it works. Some guys stick around as teachers to others of what has worked for them. And some guys stick around and stew in their own anger and resentment for too long, and become bitter. It's true that the latter exists, but it's hugely inaccurate to characterize this as the basis of the manosphere -- it isn't. And, in fact, if you look around, people who are stuck in that angry space are eventually told by other guys in the manosphere -- including at places like TRP -- that they need to move on from that, accept reality as it is rather than being angry about it, and focus on self-improvement. In fact, if you peruse TRP regularly, you'll see that message again and again and again. Trying to move guys beyond the anger phase is something you'll see there regularly.

Of course, there are always new guys coming into the manosphere, and these new guys will almost all go through an anger phase. That's a part of the process of accepting and processing loss per the Kubler-Ross model. The "loss", in this case, is the loss of the worldview they previously had, the "pretty lies" many of these guys were led to believe growing up, which are generally not true. There's a real loss there, and it's that loss that these guys are getting past. And they can also be angry that they were improperly raised and so on, didn't have an adequate father explaining stuff to him as it actually is, and so on. Sometimes this bleeds into a kind of misogyny, but, again, you will see this corrected at TRP as much as it may be upvoted. You will see comment after comment about it being silly to hate women for being who they are and so on. Some guys nevertheless do have trouble getting past this phase, but that's really something they have to work through themselves if they really want to improve their lives.

I have no doubt that there are some people on TRP and elsewhere in the manosphere who have some of the characteristics you talk about, but there are many who do not -- who came from good, intact homes with role models and no mental health problems, but who just got seriously shit on in the dating/mating/relationship aspect of their lives. They come to the manosphere looking for answers that their upbringing, as good as it was, didn[t have. My parents were of the pre-revlutionary generation, and had no clue at all of the market I was going into, and there are many guys out there who have that, even if they are from intact families. The market has changed a lot in the past 50 years and continues to change. Many guys even who have come of age in the last 10-15 years are similarly disadvantaged because their parents are clueless about the current market conditions. The manosphere serves that need, and it's a fairly significant need in our culture among men.

As for the money, I've been in the manosphere since, oh 2006 or so, and I've never purchased a book from anyone, or attended anyone's seminar or anything like that, and I've also never sold anyone anything. I suppose some people will sell the data of the pepole who are looking at their sites, but if I'm going to worry about that I may as well not read the internet at all, because there are many places outside the manosphere that do that. If you're looking to spend money, you can spend money and you may or may not get value, but over my long history of participation in this space, I have never spent a dime -- so it's hardly the "core" aspect of the manosphere.

So, if you don't find it useful, then good for you. It isn't a cult, however. A handful of guys (because that's what it is, a handful) venting on the internet about how they've failed in the dating/mating market and trying to learn how to do better is not a cult. It may be unsavory for you, it may be unsuitable for you, but it isn't a cult.

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