Your Experience with NiceGuys (TM)

ExpendableOne · 2015-07-17T19:49:31+00:00

Note, I'm not talking about real, actual nice men. I'm talking about the feminist construct of the so-called "NiceGuy"

Except that those are, in most cases, the same thing. Feminism will vilify actual nice men, and twist those men's every intent and actions to fit their own misandric narratives(either to justify bad behaviour in women or just to facilitate men-hating). This distinction that feminists like to make could pretty much boil down to "guys I like regardless of niceness" and "guys I don't like regardless of niceness"(basically, be attractive), and the rest is mostly just a sickening amount of hamstering and bigotry to facilitate or validate those choices. It is not actually rooted in logic, fairness or objectivity.

This is one of feminism biggest failures, in my opinion, and blatant example of why feminism isn't really about equality or against gender roles but, rather, about serving and protecting women's interests and entitlements. The fact is that the type of men who actually feel "entitled" to women, are the type who are in a position to take women for granted and feel offended when they are rejected. Those men are the type of men who could pretty much already get any girl they want, and certainly wouldn't call themselves nice.

And, the fact is, there is still a major issue with how women view men who aren't assertive and dominating(masculine), or who choose to be "nice" instead(which is viewed as placating, meek and weak by women, even when they do the same things, or when being fair and letting things slide requires strength of character). Women still expect men to be the instigators, to push boundaries and to take charge in most romantic situations, based on old gender role expectation and this unwillingness from women to take the lead(where as "nice guys" kind of expect some kind of give and take, or try to gage interest before moving forward instead of just doing it and creating the interest by being assertive). So those men who end up being incredibly frustrated and angry are, in this age of feminism, often entirely justified(especially when they are essentially doing what feminism says men should do while also being shit on by feminists, and the rest of women, for doing exactly that).

The other fallacy that a lot of women will make is then look at men who are frustrated and angry, because they feel belittled, unappreciated, disrespected and often taken advantage of as a result of being nice, and use that aspect of them to represent their entire character or to say things like "well, he was never really nice to begin with" like that was truly representative of who they were as people beforehand as well(or like his pain and anger wasn't justified because women can do no wrong). It's like having an amazing guy get fucked over by his wife, lose his house and his job, and then saying he was never that great of a guy in the first place because now he's, understandably, angry and frustrated(and, therefore, she was justified in leaving and taking everything from him).

CursedLemon · 2015-07-17T17:48:47+00:00

The friend zone was always about dating. The ladder theory was about sex. All the "nice guy" stuff I presumed was about the former.

cxj · 2015-07-17T18:49:06+00:00

I always used to see those "tribute to the nice guys" myspace copypasta bulletins, they annoyed the shit out of me and i was glad at first when the anti nice guy campaign began. As time went by, the continued ferocity of this campaign became distirbing. "Nice guys" are a mild annoyance, not a genuine social problem.

TheChemist158 · 2015-07-17T19:24:18+00:00

The best example I've had was a guy I meet online to play video games with. He was overweight, British, asian, and NEET. He was a brony, and had a hell of a defeatist attitude. Aside from being across the globe he has serious attitude issues. Still, he was fun to chat with and play games with. I tend to enjoy dirty and sexual jokes, and he seemed to as well. His jokes started to get more explicit less jokingly. At one point he'd as if "we can be one of those couples that has the woman submissive normally but dominate in bed". He talked about what our kids would be like. When he started saying this stuff I had a chat with him. I pretty much told him that I like joking about that stuff, and I'd be happy to continue, but he shouldn't read too far into it. I'm not interested, there's no chance of us getting together, we can tone down that kind of stuff if he wants, and I'd understand if he just wanted to stop talking.

He was saying that he understands what I was saying, and that he still wanted to be friend regardless. He still pushed on with the sexual stuff though. At one point he wanted me pick my favorite animal-themed dildo (he was a furry as well). He'd do me all kind of favors in game, giving me any good item he finds, offering to buy me games, things like that.

Eventually I met my boyfriend, and I told my Furry Friend about him. Despite never saying anything bad about the new guy, he got mad, complaining about women always going for the assholes. It was one of the last conversations I had with him.

We have experiences like that, and then we see posts online that tell very similar stories but from the guy's perspective. It's the posts online that contain all thoughts and feeling they have about being the nice guy, and how much he did for her and still didn't go for him. We just put the two halves together.

alreadyredschool · 2015-07-17T17:48:31+00:00

Actually many people are nice and some are extra nice to new people and then angry when their efforts are futile. That doesn't mean that the are normally a horrible person. These people just get more and more frustrated with every rejection. He can lash out when it reaches critical levels. But generally he is not consciously or maliciously manipulative.

The real nice guy tm exists, he is a narcissist. He wears a mask and the one he chooses to wear is he one of a very nice guy. He can also find trp and choose to wear that mask. He is consciously and maliciously manipulative.

It's a pity that the person who is either extra nice to someone new or just generally really kind and the narcissist are put on the same level by a bunch of women.

On the other hand I have been approached by a large number of women in the past month and they all lost interest when I mentioned my girlfriend, it was frustrating, I just wanted some new friends, I thought those were innocent invitations to drink. That's not a nice feeling and I can understand why women hate that and i can relate to their frustrations.

Raiil · 2015-07-17T19:22:06+00:00

My experience generally is finding out they want something I'm not interested in giving and doing my best to Gtfo.

I've gotten 'why aren't you interested in me/why don't you talk to me?!' whining most of the time. Usually I just avoid them; I think I've only lost my shit once and that's after they backed me into a corner.

This was all in my teens/early twenties. I still don't know what I did to get their attention other than being a vagina bearer in their general vicinity and talk to them; I've never been a flirt and am something of a cold fish most of the time, plus I'm pretty plain. It was probably desparation but meh. If I don't want it, you ain't getting it.

Cbus_anonymous · 2015-07-17T18:09:28+00:00

1) An Elliot Rogers-esque encounter: I was at a bar with a friend in a booth on the far wall away from the bar, and we split a bottle of wine and then each had one more drink. When I went to close out at the end of the night a guy at the bar actually got in my face and started screaming at me about how I was "going to go home with that asshole I was sitting with" in spite of the fact that "I'd been flirting with him (the screamer) all night!" He then went on a diatribe about how this is how society treats nice guys, blah blah blah. The bartenders were edgy and a number of people around froze, because everyone realized how dangerous the situation actually was, and no one knew what to do. I cut him off and pointed out that I'd spent the entire evening sitting just with my friend, and perhaps he was thinking of someone else "flirting" with him? I was trying to defuse the situation, and give him an out, but it just made him more psychotically enraged, and he started screaming about I'd been "looking at him all night" and not "to bother denying it". By this point, people were standing, and no one was saying anything. I think a lot of the guys were torn about whether to intervene or get the fuck away from this volatile psycho. Nothing more happened, but my friend walked me the whole way home that night. Never saw the guy again.

2) On a date, I happened to get to the door first, and held it open for my date, who physically (gently, but still) shoved me off the door and held it open himself, insisting I should enter. I froze for a second, and he started complimenting himself on how he "knew how to treat ladies", because he "was a gentleman who'd been raised right". I contested that pushing me off the door wasn't ok, and he screamed "I'M JUST TRYING TO BE NICE." and launched into some "nice guy" diatribe.

There are actually a lot of similar date encounters, and the "nice guys" almost inevitably end up screaming at some point about how "nice" they are, and usually, if not always, involve whining about how people don't appreciate them for their niceness in spite of women always saying they want nice guys.

3) Had a roommate who became clingy and needy, and would frequently whine about his lack of dating options. He began emulating things I said I liked, but would always manage to do these things in some half-assed, bizarre, or insincere way. For example, once he heard me comment on how cool someone's green hair was, and in less than 24 hours, he'd died his hair green. Problem was, he didn't know how to bleach out his natural color, so his hair looked scorched and exceptionally uneven (how difficult is it to read the instructions on the box?), and the dye took in a splotchy manner that made it look like he was growing patches of mold on his head. He was really proud of the look, and kept trying to physically impinge on my space after making this change. He regularly would tell the other roommates he was doing these things "for me", because he thought of these changes as being a favor to me, when in fact they made no sense. This sort of thing. After moving out, I distanced myself from him because of his creepiness, chatting with him about once every six months. After two years of this, I cut contact entirely when he flipped out on me in one of our chats for having a boyfriend.

About ten years after this, I started getting email notifications that he was searching me through Intellius and a couple of similar sites; I don't recall which ones told me he was looking, but there were at least two. He suddenly friended me on Facebook, and seemed benign enough that I was hoping he'd matured some, so we chatted for a bit. Then he started sending these aggressive messages and posts to friends of mine, and he was clearly laboring about his aggressive posts to my wall, apparently unaware that I'd get an email every time he posted something, even if it was an edit. He called me a cunt and posting some totally uncalled for comment about how he didn't find a friend's baby to be cute (this fb account was for professional reasons, btw) in one of the posts, which he deleted immediately, but I was done at that point and blocked him. He sent me emails for the next two years whining about how he didn't know what he did to deserve this treatment, etc, because he'd always been so nice to me.

There are a lot more, but that's sufficient for this.

ThorLives · 2015-07-17T18:58:26+00:00

I wish people would stop using the phrase "Nice Guy (TM)". A more accurate and honest phrase would be "Bad Guy In Nice Guy Clothing". Using the phrase "Nice Guy (TM)" suggests that everyone who considers himself a nice guy is actually just a "Bad Guy In Nice Guy Clothing".

Xemnas81 · 2015-07-17T23:42:31+00:00

Given women evidently contain great hostility towards beta males by the Nice Guy straw man, why should we be happy to be expected to have to maintain high SMV just for our opinion to matter?

cherryblue12 · 2015-07-18T14:59:07+00:00

Freshman year of college there was a guy who had a huge crush on me, who I just wasn't all that into. It wasn't that he was unattractive, or that there was anything wrong with him, I just didn't feel any romantic chemistry.

Anyway, after a few months of completely platonic acquaintanceship this guy asked me out on a date, and because I was too young to trust my gut on these things, I said yes. He did everything right - he showed up at my dorm room door with a flower, took me out to dinner, was a great guy the whole time. On our first date I mentioned how I missed dunkin donuts, so on our second date he showed up at my door with a bag of donuts. What a sweetheart!

The thing was, the chemistry just wasn't there. So after these two dates (during which nothing physical happened, not even a goodnight kiss) i told him that I just didn't think it was going to work. He was a great guy and I enjoyed his company, but the romantic connection just wasn't there for me.

After this, his whole attitude and demeanor towards me changed. Not only that, but the attitude and demeanors of ALL OF HIS FRIENDS changed too. I had one of them corner me in the hallway once and ask me why I thought I was too good for this guy, after he had treated me so great. There were whispers behind my back, and he and most of his friends acted like I didn't exist for the remaining 3 years of college. The message was clear - here was a nice guy, a guy who would treat me like a princess, and I was a total bitch because I didn't want him. Who did I think I was, anyway, that I would turn down such a nice guy? Didn't I know how lucky I was, to have such a nice guy interested in me?

At the time I felt completely shitty. But years later thinking back on it, I get pissed off on behalf of my younger self. They all acted like the fact that this guy showed up with a flower and brought me donuts meant that he was automatically entitled to have me as his girlfriend, and I was a bitch for turning him down. But that's bullshit. Bringing me a flower was a sweet gesture, but the whole flower + donuts = girlfriend equation is not a thing.

I chalk a lot of it up to youth. Now that I'm older and the guys I'm dating are older too, I find most of them are far more reasonable and understanding about rejection. I still encounter a few bad eggs now and then, but most guys my age understand that sometimes, the chemistry just isn't there.

Sleela17 · 2015-07-17T18:09:15+00:00

I have a friend (or I guess, more like an acquaintance who's friends with my friends) who is one. When he dates or pursues a girl, he's incredibly clingy, texts her all day, posts stupid lovey-dovey memes or things like, "Hi love, hope you're having a fantastic day! :)" on her Facebook wall, etc. Meanwhile, hanging out with his friends, he'll talk shit about the girl (and girls in general) for being stupid, being a slut, etc. In short: he's not actually nice at all, he's just faking to get in a girl's pants.

Then when the girl inevitably dumps him, he posts these long, woe-is-me Facebook statuses about how girls don't want nice guys, girls will lead you on and then break your heart, "Why can't I just find a girl who appreciates me?," blah blah.

A lot of my friends have cut ties with this person because he's completely insufferable to be around. He's not actually that nice at all. But he'll sure tell you he is. Constantly.

For what it's worth, I'd say this guy is pretty attractive. He's a black guy, tall, works out, and while he's not super wealthy or anything, has a decent job. So I don't think these women are just repulsed by his existence.

CisWhiteMaelstrom · 2015-07-17T19:01:27+00:00

I went to college in a city where you don't need a car so I'm taking drivers ed now with a bunch of teenagers. Yesterday I was walking out and I saw one of them up in front of me with a girl. He did a fist pump afterwards and looked real excited and when I asked him why, it's because he likes that girl and finally got a chance to talk to her. This kid was very nice and polite and seemed like he really wanted to be her boyfriend. He seemed like he had good intentions. I don't think he was outbtobuse her, be a secret asshole, or any of that. Luckily for him, I came along.

HappilySingleWoman · 2015-07-17T18:59:19+00:00

I'm talking about the feminist construct of the so-called "NiceGuy"

Why do you think they're constructed by feminism ? Doesn't traditionalism basically tell you to be a gentleman ?

Will_Im_Not · 2015-07-17T17:47:46+00:00

I used to be a Nice Guy. I never flipped out and called out women for not appreciating how nice I was or anything but looking back I was a bit entitled. I grew up Christian and in the Boy Scouts so I figured that being "nice" was the right thing to do and that it would pay off eventually. Once when I realized just being nice won't get you laid I ~~became a misogynist and started treating women like gold-digging whores~~ tried new things and figured out more effective strategies for dating.

So I guess I have sympathy for Nice Guys because I can see where they're coming from. But they need to either grow a spine or just be nice for the sake of it. I don't think I've ever talked to one IRL but I've seen some Facebook posts from friends of mine that could be from /r/niceguys.

mcconnelldemasi · 2015-07-17T20:08:52+00:00

The only time a man ever specifically stated that he should get sex is when I dated him for two weeks. As CursedLemon stated friend zone is more about dating.

wazzup987 · 2015-07-17T23:29:34+00:00

IME typically sycophants who aren't being honest with themselves or others. typically with not lot going for them though some times they do make it to college.

People who are like nice guys are liek that because they feel they dont not have a lot to offer or they just dont have a lot to offer.

under my definition of slut (a person with nothign to offer but sex) nice guys would also be sluts.

even if they have a career and college and what not typically they are not very emotional developed and have a very narrow and ridge set of things they are interested in and typical fetishize one type of one regardless of what that type of woman is. this goes beyond liking the same things but to a rigid requirement to be checked off. IE anime video games nerd culture. they never think that perhaps they could introduce a woman to those endeavors.... no they want their woman prepackaged.

DStoo · 2015-07-18T05:23:56+00:00

FWB friend of mine told me about a guy that she was friends with that was a NiceGuy all around. And then told her about his cancer and that he thinks he deserved sex for it.

CuntyMcFagNuts69 · 2015-07-17T18:07:19+00:00

I posted in TRP about this and one user gave a great answer

Jack Donovan says it the best "There is a difference between being a good man and being good at being a man"

Title	Your Experience with NiceGuys (TM)
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	4
Comments	102
Date	July 17, 2015 5:34 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3dna3f/your_experience_with_niceguys_tm/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/your-experience-with-niceguys-tm.280955 https://theredarchive.com/post/280955

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