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What are something(s) you will admit the other side is right about?

wazzup987
June 5, 2015
11 upvotes
/r/PurplePillDebate
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Post Information
Title What are something(s) you will admit the other side is right about?
Author

wazzup987
Upvotes 11
Comments 107
Date June 5, 2015 1:59 AM UTC
(11 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/38lxc3/what_are_somethings_you_will_admit_the_other_side/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-are-somethings-you-will-admit-the-other-side.281772
https://theredarchive.com/post/281772
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Comments

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth10 points11 points12 points 11 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

That far more women are running "1 guy AB strategies" than TRP will ever admit, focussing on "2 guys AF/BB strategies" (because thats where the tigers are).

That there are benefits to males of marriage that TRP is also loathe to admit, although I am still with TRP on the "Costs outweigh Benefits" argument they do seem to be unable to grasp there are some benefits.

That a significant subset of our tactics and strategies are "the tactics and strategies of assholes" (albeit, they seem unable to grasp that not every RP man follows every tactic).

That the distribution of sex among males is more widespread than the 80:20 rule indicates. That it's more like a 30:50:20 rule.

I'm sure there would be more if I carried on thinking them up...

EDIT: Just noticed. Not a single Blooper on the thread. 6 7 RP guys on thread, admitting points the other side made are correct(ish). Not one Blooper.

And we're meant to be the "religious dogma" ones.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Just noticed. Not a single Blooper on the thread. 6 7 RP guys on thread, admitting points the other side made are correct(ish). Not one Blooper.

Makes sense, though.

Redpillers are usually "converts" from a bluepill mindset, i.e. they know it more intimately. For bluepillers, redpill ideas are rather alien overall.

Those women who admitted that redpill may have a point here and there are coming from more RP-compatible and/or traditional backgrounds.

[–]CFRProflcopter( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

EDIT: Just noticed. Not a single Blooper on the thread. 6 7 RP guys on thread, admitting points the other side made are correct(ish). Not one Blooper.

How many blue pillers are actually active in PPD these days. Like 5, maybe? Red Pillers have driven nearly all of them away with endless circlejerking. Seriously, I thought the BP circlejerking was bad a year ago. You guys took it to a whole new level. Now there's no one (or barely anyone) left to even answer these types of questions.

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth9 points10 points11 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Yeah. It was the circle jerking that drive them away. Just like their circle jerking "last year" drove all us away... Oh, wait ! Here we are.

As far as I can see hats happened is this..

The bloopers who actually debated and talked to us all ended up taking purple and black flairs. I've converted a couple myself.

Those that wanted to circle jerk with their friends left, becUse they had too few left.

What's the mechanism for recruiting a new set of fresh bloops ? Ita no fun blasting away with so few fish left in the barrel.

We need a new set to convert. The last set are all purple now. Get us a new batch and the BP circle jerkers will return with them, only to leave again when we've created another purple batch.

This site needs a blooper feeding mechanism. Us RP posters are just too damn good at this game. It is a bit "feeding lambs to the wolves" but given how they treated me and my wife a while back I can't feel an awful lot of sympathy for them.

Bring on the fresh horses !

[–]CFRProflcopter( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Just like their circle jerking "last year" drove all us away... Oh, wait ! Here we are.

But it did drive you away. There was a point where there were no more than 5 or 6 RPers that commented here among a sea of BPers. We had to implement mod policies that diversified the user base. I know you like to think that you're a special snowflake, but it was our policies that changed the demographics of the sub.

The bloopers who actually debated and talked to us all ended up taking purple and black flairs. I've converted a couple myself.

Honestly, I've never seen anyone change their flair color in the year and a half that I've been here. There might have been 3 or 4, but nothing crazy.

This site needs a blooper feeding mechanism. Us RP posters are just too damn good at this game. It is a bit "feeding lambs to the wolves" but given how they treated me and my wife a while back I can't feel an awful lot of sympathy for them.

It's funny, the BPers were saying the same thing a year and a half ago. It's almost like you're both equally full of yourselves.

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

But it did drive you away. There was a point where there were no more than 5 or 6 RPers that commented here among a sea of BPers. We had to implement mod policies that diversified the user base. I know you like to think that you're a special snowflake, but it was our policies that changed the demographics of the sub.

Awesome. Can we have some o' them apples to bring some fresh bloopers in then ?

Honestly, I've never seen anyone change their flair color in the year and a half that I've been here. There might have been 3 or 4, but nothing crazy.

Shit. You want to follow more of my thread then. Got a blue to black and a blue to purple in the bag. Got a couple more to read Book of Pook. One of thems at least purple now, but don't post no more.

I have witnessed one red to purple de conversion though. One of our assholes got at a red flaired woman, she turned purple.

It's funny, the BPers were saying the same thing a year and a half ago. It's almost like you're both equally full of yourselves.

That'd be true enough. Only one sides got a real teason to feel that way though :)

So... What's the blooper feed mechanism ? How do you guys do it (or did it the other way last year) ?

Feed some more into the sausage machine. All we've got left are the ones that turned into sausage and the ones all made out of gristle.

Fresh new meat. That's what we need. If we get to blooper heavy I'll bring in some decent RP dudes to balance up, but were a long way from there.

[–]CFRProflcopter( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Can we have some o' them apples to bring some fresh bloopers in then ?

I don't know if it will be worth all of the complaining, to be honest.

That'd be true enough. Only one sides got a real teason to feel that way though :)

The fact that they would say the same exact thing leads me to believe that you're both wrong.

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The fact that they would say the same exact thing leads me to believe that you're both wrong.

Yeah. Like those pesky evolutionists and creationists. So sure they're both right. Who knows what to make of them ?

:)

On the other thing, you're the mods.

[–]CFRProflcopter( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Scientists and creationists claim that they are right for the same reason? I don't think so. They're also much less unjustifiably smug than some of the people who have been active on PPD.

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think the reasons are the same.

One thinks they've got the answer because they've figures it out, have trust in their system that it works, and see comfiimg evidence around them that their system predicts.

The other guys think they are wrong and try to be dicks about it and disrupt the first lot.

Was I describing science/creationists or RP/BP ?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

The thing is if you have an objective, logic debate devoid of things like subjective morality and personal attacks you invariably can only reach one conclusion. Thus their choice is either convert or become willfully ignorant lest the suffer from high degrees of cognitive dissonance.

[–]CFRProflcopter( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

subjective morality

All morality is subjective, but it's still derived from logic. Also, morality is a key component of any debate.

can only reach one conclusion

I disagree. TRP is not a science nor is it even marginally scientific, so we're debating beliefs. It's natural that there are going to be many different answers to the questions posed, none of the clearly right or wrong.

Thus their choice is either convert or become willfully ignorant lest the suffer from high degrees of cognitive dissonance.

They would say the same exact thing about you and be just as assured. How would you go about proving who is right and who is wrong?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

All morality is subjective,

Outside the scope of my comment but I tend to (virtually) agree. Either way it doesn't effect the statements I made.

but it's still derived from logic.

Not always. As you stated morality is subjective. Subjectiveness can only be quasi-logical but it is not objectively logical i.e. morality may follow some sort of internal logic that is subjectively credible but it is not universally logical insofar as other sets of (equally or more credible) logic can be used to discredit the subjective logic employed. (See e.g. abortion debate; minimum wage debate). But I digress.

Also, morality is a key component of any debate.

Really? Let's say we're debating whether evolution or creationism is the correct explanation for existence. Does morality play a role? The scientist would say no.

Let's say we're debating whether quantum physics can be reconciled with relativity. Do we need morality to be involved?

The same applies in a variety of other scientific and economic debates.

Certainly you can see that morality does not play a huge role in many debates.

They would say the same exact thing about you and be just as assured.

That's fine.

How would you go about proving who is right and who is wrong?

I wouldn't care to bother.

[–]CFRProflcopter( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Not always. As you stated morality is subjective. Subjectiveness can only be quasi-logical but it is not objectively logical i.e. morality may follow some sort of internal logic that is subjectively credible but it is not universally logical insofar as other sets of (equally or more credible) logic can be used to discredit the subjective logic employed. (See e.g. abortion debate; minimum wage debate). But I digress.

When we're talking about "morality," we're talking about ethics right? Ethics is mostly based on logic. It's a branch of philosophy. Logic is a key component of philosophy. There's even formal ethics, which is entirely based on logic.

Really? Let's say we're debating whether evolution or creationism is the correct explanation for existence. Does morality play a role? The scientist would say no.

It depends what the ethical consequences are. In this case, the ethical consequences of understanding evolution are not negative, so there's no reason to not research evolution.

Let's say we're debating whether quantum physics can be reconciled with relativity. Do we need morality to be involved?

Yes. Philosophers that specialize in ethics critically examine every field of science. It's an important part of any debate.

I wouldn't care to bother.

Then why are you here?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Ethics is mostly based on logic. It's a branch of philosophy. Logic is a key component of philosophy. There's even formal ethics, which is entirely based on logic.

The foundation of morality and ethics are subjective. Formal ethics seems like how to be logically consistent AFTER accepting subjective moral stances.

It depends what the ethical consequences are. In this case, the ethical consequences of understanding evolution are not negative, so there's no reason to not research evolution.

Interesting. What things should we not research due to them having negative ethical consequences?

[–]CFRProflcopter( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The foundation of morality and ethics are subjective. Formal ethics seems like how to be logically consistent AFTER accepting subjective moral stances.

I'm not quite sure what you are talking about. Ethics often uses "if" statements. If X is "good," then Y must also be good and Z must be bad. Alternatively, it might be based on assumptions. When those assumptions hold true, the ethical assertion also must hold true.

Interesting. What things should we not research due to them having negative ethical consequences?

A great example is the medical research performed by the Nazis.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't mean a case of the research itself being unethical or destructive, but where the resulting understanding is ethically negative. If I want to better understand a certain disease, there are of course various unethical ways to go about it, but trying to gain an understanding of the disease itself should not be considered negative.

the ethical consequences of understanding evolution are not negative

I guess what you mean is gaining an understanding of evolution does not require us to DO anything unethical.

I'm curious about your feelings toward IQ differences between the different races. Figuring this out does not require engaging in unethical behavior. But are the conclusions unethical?

[–]CFRProflcopter( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't mean a case of the research itself being unethical or destructive, but where the resulting understanding is ethically negative. If I want to better understand a certain disease, there are of course various unethical ways to go about it, but trying to gain an understanding of the disease itself should not be considered negative.

I'm not sure if that's ever happened.

I guess what you mean is gaining an understanding of evolution does not require us to DO anything unethical.

Yes.

I'm curious about your feelings toward IQ differences between the different races. Figuring this out does not require engaging in unethical behavior. But are the conclusions unethical?

As far as I know, "race" isn't a term commonly employed by science. Perhaps you mean ethnicity? As far as I know, there are no proven inherent differences between ethnicities. The topic is still being studied at many universities.

I don't see how it would matter. People in western society are judged based on individual accomplishments.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It depends what the ethical consequences are. In this case, the ethical consequences of understanding evolution are not negative, so there's no reason to not research evolution.

Now you're either moving the goal posts or being purposefully obtuse.

You wrote: "morality is a key component of any debate."

Clearly that is not the case and I have provided you multiple examples proving that. Care to concede that point?

Then why are you here?

To sharpen or destroy my beliefs by pitting them against nonbelievers.

[–]CFRProflcopter( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You wrote: "morality is a key component of any debate."

But it is a key component of every debate. With every argument you make you ask yourself, "is this ethical?" You just cited two examples where the answer to that question is yes. Sometimes the answer is no.

[–]DietCokeImOnMyKnees80% Red / 20% Beta Bucks20 points21 points22 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Blue Pill is right that women do suffer a lot of unwanted attention and outright harassment at the hands of men. Women are also adversely affected by outdated gender stereotypes, and do face ongoing sexism, although as TRP would point out it goes both ways.
Overall, life and in particular relationships with the opposite sex are generally not easy for anyone. Getting into a pissing contest about who has it hardest is a waste of time. I have no idea which gender overall has a harder time, and I don't think its possible to quantify, nor is it worthwhile attempting to try.

[–]RhuntaRed pill christian /r/TRPCORE5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Even if one gender has it worse than a other. The individual may not experience the stereotype.

[–]cra1pill the color of heartiste's shiv6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

When I read TRP or write responses here in the TRP voice I'm aware that TRP is roughly on the epistemic level between murky questionable biology research and fairly reliable sociology research. I don't see any competing theories of socio-sexuality worth a damn though.

Some TRP truths have small error bars, some TRP truths have pretty large error bars. Some TRP truths have exceptions that prove the rule. Some TRP truths have exceptions borne out of genuine self-understanding where people use their brains to transcend their lower instincts.

The problem with that last part is, it's far easier to delude yourself into thinking you have transcended your base biological instincts through self-knowledge than it is to actually durably do so, over a long period of time ie. your entire life.

And if you want to get really meta, I acknowledge that there's probably a selection effect where, to even be posting here cogently debating these issues makes you likely to be more self-aware and introspective than a huge amount of the people out there.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I think that gender roles and hierarchies increase stability and sometimes even happiness in relationships. If both people know what to expect from the other partner, and everyone has their own job, then I could see how this would help things go a lot smoother.

[–]theory_of_kinkunpilled outlier0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Until it doesn't.

This is the reactionary position. I think modern technology has undone the gender roles. Late industrialisation killed the homemaker.

If we automate childcare that would end tradition relationships for good.

[–]wazzup987Blue pill, you can beat me black & blue for it later[S,🍰] 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

If we automate childcare that would end tradition relationships for good.

naw people would still date and ltr but kids wouldn't be factor, and even the most progressive voices would no to huxely

[–]theory_of_kinkunpilled outlier-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Oh people are still clever monkeys but they'd be living further from nature. They still have desires and fears.

The rich have a centuries old tradition of leaving the messy labour of bringing up kids to others. Would people really skip the machine for that hassle? Think of it like junk food. People know its bad for them but still, the time saving, the cost, they just go with it.

Whats the difference between leaving it to the wet nurse and leaving to the wet android? If its cheap enough?

Oh sure you would have organic enthusiasts doing it the traditional way but hey who's got time to grow and bake your own bread?

[–]wazzup987Blue pill, you can beat me black & blue for it later[S,🍰] 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

poes law engaged

[–]theory_of_kinkunpilled outlier-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Hey I'm all for a bit of uninformed speculation.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Personally I am happy about this. Relationships are less stable, but we have more freedom.

[–]BakerofpieRed Pill Woman2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Divorce rape is highly overblown and the horror stories discussed are rare, becoming more rare by the day. Not all women who sleep around are going to remotely pine for former flames and going more than a point or two above your own attractiveness level as a woman is not as easy as many seem to believe, though there isn't really a way to show statistics for that.

[–]buarthaDelights in homosexuality5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Exercising and not being a boring fuck is a good plan to get laid or to keep interest in an LTR. Women are not angels who are immune to physical attraction, nor are they likely to want to have sex *regularly with someone who bores them.

Also, I've seen people on TRP advocate that you should keep a flirty atmosphere going all the time rather than just ramping things up when it's time for sex. This is very good advice, and something that's often overlooked; having someone only be affectionate towards you when it's time for sex can make some people feel like a handy object for sexual release rather than someone their partner actually wants.

[–]wubooAlpha Blue Pill4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Some guys are so inept that they literally need to be told to self improve.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Tbp is right that trps marriage advice of marrying a young virgin is not only unrealistic but carries the highest risk of divorce rape. Trps "dont get married" advice is good tho

[–]ppdthrowawaiRed Pill0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I agree with this. To add I don't thing that high partner count is the reason a girl with a high partner count is a bad deal. I believe it's a correlation, not causation. High partner count, to an extent, correlates with being a girl who makes bad decisions. However there are plenty of girls who have fucked a decent amount of guys and are pretty well put together people.

Note: I still believe that the higher this gets, the more likely it is she's a bad deal for a relationship I just feel there are many other variables to consider such as her age, how many ltrs she's had. It's not all black and white.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I believe it's a correlation, not causation.

When it comes to predicting behavior, everything is correlation. That's why you also look at "other variables to consider such as her age, how many ltrs she's had".

Ironically, one of the most lambasted posts on RoK, "24 signs she's a slut", is pretty much the only one I can subscribe to - because it's true, the things Roosh lists do correlate with promiscuity.

Now I won't kick a woman out of my flat when I see she has three tats or a few piercings, or when she likes drinking occasionally, or when she's a smoker, or when she admits that she has snorted cocaine in the past - but when she did/does all of these things, all the little red flags become a pretty big one.

[–]ppdthrowawaiRed Pill0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Good point. I'm not saying not to pay attention to these details. They certainly add up to a more complete story of who that person is.

[–]cherryblue12Purple Pill Woman2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

TRP is right that society tends to focus on violence (physical or emotional) perpetrated by men against women, but pretty much ignores violence (physical or emotional) perpetrated by women against men.

I also think TRP is right when they advise men to improve themselves as a way to attract women. I don't buy in to all that PUA nonsense but I think a guy will definitely see his success rate with women go up if he starts taking better care of himself, gets fit, builds some muscles (I also agree with TRP that most women like some muscle on a man, although I'm sure there are exceptions to that rule) dresses better and approaches more women.

[–]blametheboogiefresh dressed with the fly green socks4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I agree with bp that lots of women have difficulties in the dating world/smp. I also think that not as many women are promiscuous while young as lots of rp people claim.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I agree with bp that lots of women have difficulties in the dating world/smp.

Only insofar as they don't get 100% what they want. But they get something by merely existing, which surely beats having to work for everything.

I also think that not as many women are promiscuous while young as lots of rp people claim.

Agreed.

[–]blametheboogiefresh dressed with the fly green socks0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not mad at em, I'm learning rp because I want to do better in the smp not because I couldn't get anything, I'm not a 4 so I'm not happy with the 4s I've been getting attention from.

I'm cool with anybody wanting to do better as long as they're willing to do some work to get where they want to be.

[–]Darth-SinMGTOW1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What are non-MGTOWs right about ? Well they are right about the need to have someone to fix the issues, to provide for the next and to maintain civilization.

Sadly, most MGTOW don't give much of a damn about those things anymore so...

[–]SlayerS_ThorZaiNpuss1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm neither pills but side with more Red Pill principles, but I admit that lots of Blue Pillers are right about the huge number of neckbeards that are amongst Red Pillers/MGTOW/MRA.

[–]IramadanceRed Pill Man1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's because neckbeards realize that they've been doing something wrong this whole time. Whether they actually take the advice and apply it to their life is a different story though.

[–]wonderingwhether54Non-Red Pill4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

I think we can admit that improving yourself and getting more ripped (yum!) definitively will turn your wife/other women on.

Also, trying to be a better father and putting more energy into doing this without your wife nagging you will make her happier and fuck you more.

I think the rest is all crazy though.

[–]theory_of_kinkunpilled outlier-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

It helps but I don't think women respond to physical appearance as much as men. I couldn't give you a margin.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Considering the standards women have to consider a guy physically attractive (as opposed to the standards men have), I'd argue that it's even worse. However, they have an assload of other boxes to check and therefore may be forced to compromise on looks, which gives off the wrong impression that women care less about looks.

[–]theory_of_kinkunpilled outlier-2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Doesn't that amount to the same. Because it matter less a guy has to be a lot more handsome for it to be of value?

There's probably a technical economic term for that.

[–]gyffyn-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Depends on the woman, but a beer belly and 3 day beard are going to make a worse first impression than a trim belly and a groomed face.

[–]theory_of_kinkunpilled outlier0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's not that it doesn't help it's just that it matters more for women.

I'd point to the porn verses romance consumption. And it's not just women are prettier. Gay men like visual porn like straight men like their visual porn.

[–]wonderingwhether54Non-Red Pill-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think that's true too. However, in raw attraction, when a woman has no idea who you are or what you make ( like in a ONS) hotness is the best factor.

[–]wonderingwhether54Non-Red Pill-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah. definitively I agree. However, I think that in a ONS where the only feature a woman knows for sure about you is how you look like, improving you appearance is a good idea.

[–]Nazrath2112Blood Splatter Red3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

BP marriages work for people who are still plugged in. If they dont have any issues then I have no problem admitting that it worked for THEM. I just do not agree that it would work FOR ME.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, i think thats part of what makes these debates so tough. I know bp couples who are happy, just not that many. Imo they are happy people in general and can make anything work. Also, they usually pair off fairly early on and without any previous relationship catastrophes.

[–]Nazrath2112Blood Splatter Red3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I would love to see a sampling of BP couples who are happy and RP couples who are happy. How much of a difference is there between the data sets?

[–]OfSpock0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

What information would you want?

[–]Nazrath2112Blood Splatter Red0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

RP vs BP marriage success rate, divorce rate, happiness and length of marriage to start.

[–]ppdthrowawaiRed Pill-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

My brother is like this with his fiancee, blissfully happy in their narrow perspectives of the world. Little does he know the train wreck that's coming. he plans on loving away his problems.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago* (29 children) | Copy Link

That trp over estimates the divorce rape rate.

Divorce stats count people in their 3rd or even fourth divorce and only a small % of divorcees are tying up the courts with high conflict divorces.

I believe trp is wrong about civilization collapsing due to birth rates - soon there will be a 40% reduction of available jobs carried out by humans.

I believe that tbp is right that a substantial amount of slut shaming done on trp is down to insecurity and sexual scarcity.

TRP thought tends to be conservative leaning so simple solutions to problems like 40% of children being born into fatherless homes cannot be imagined - instead the solution is thought to lie in massive, archaic social engineering campaign to repress sexuality and turn the clock back.

[–]wazzup987Blue pill, you can beat me black & blue for it later[S,🍰] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago* (13 children) | Copy Link

TRP thought tends to be conservative leaning so simple solutions to problems like 40% of children being born into fatherless homes cannot be imagined - instead the solution is thought to lie in massive, archaic social engineering campaign to repress sexuality and turn the clock back.

that isn't going to happen

Edit: isn't

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

No, its not.

Reliable birth control for men will be rolled out free - men will jump at the chance of an easy 5 years of risk free sex at a time and the rate of children born in fatherless homes will drop back to previous levels.

Technology will lead to a 40% reduction in available jobs.

If there was a move back to traditionalism (which would be impossible to do and pol pot-esque ) there would be serious over population and unemployment problems.

[–]wazzup987Blue pill, you can beat me black & blue for it later[S,🍰] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

It what i try get terper to see. and honestly a lot terper fear monger over poly too conflating old style poly from cave man day with modern western poly

[–]steelpuppy1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

and honestly a lot terper fear monger over poly too conflating old style poly from cave man day with modern western poly

How exactly do they fear monger?

[–]wazzup987Blue pill, you can beat me black & blue for it later[S,🍰] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Oh like 5% of the men will have like 130% of the women. iam exgerated but you get my point. i would have to digg it up but greasy pole and nondplume and i got in to it about two weeks ago.

Long story short they look at moder polyamorus societies and say this is your future for poly.

they refuse to take into account culture, SEC status, geographys, and jsut say polygyny is bio troof. also they assume women will be loyall to the just one 'alpha'. not how it works

they also look back 20000 years and are look at how them en had multiple in tornament style system not realizing that technology flattened the curve on that. And they say look at back when we were still nomadic and polygynous that is you future.

not realizing that woman had very little economic power, so there wasn't parity in terms, and the nature of reality back then meant baby makers had ot be protect so women economic power was restricted.

[–]steelpuppy1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

i would have to digg it up but greasy pole and nondplume and i got in to it about two weeks ago.

nondplume talked about his poly experiences and it wasn't pretty. Very female-centric. AFAIK you accept that the world is gynocentric but have a problem with accepting that poly relationships are going to be the same.

[–]wazzup987Blue pill, you can beat me black & blue for it later[S,🍰] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Not in my experience, but what ever. beside nondplume isn't full poly, he just has an open relationship, there is a difference.

[–]steelpuppy0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

So what if he isn't fully poly? He was still part of the community and as such he made some observations. Considering that women are less horny than men is what really skews the market.

[–]wazzup987Blue pill, you can beat me black & blue for it later[S,🍰] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

there are some serious differnces between open relationship and poly

open relationships are pretty much limited to NSAs FWB tops

in poly while NSA and FWB are allowed most people who are poly are shootign for full secondary relationship or more

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

TRP people cannot seem to separate poly from being humiliated, disrespected and cheated on - which I think is down to insecurity.

[–]wazzup987Blue pill, you can beat me black & blue for it later[S,🍰] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

IT not like nonconcentual cuckolding which is the stand point they seem to come at it from.

I mean i am split on poly but i would never tollerate a half open relationship. and some of the RPW are down right insane. in the IRC last wingnut (who is a female to any lurkers) defended DV as method of "keeping women in check" fucking insanity. If you woman is needling break up with her she aint worth the hassle

[–]theory_of_kinkunpilled outlier0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

RPW can sound like undiagnosed Hybristophiliacs.

Remember the Rules. I always thought Red Pill was almost a counter action to that.

I imagine a closeted Rules woman in some kind of intense cold war marriage with closeted Red Pill guy. I guess it must happen.

EDIT that was pretty random of me A think bubble above both their heads "I rule."

Poly? Poly isn't for everyone. I think jealousy is pretty wired in. If jealousy was just culture cuckholdery wouldn't be kicks for folks.

[–]wazzup987Blue pill, you can beat me black & blue for it later[S,🍰] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If you agree to be poly what kicks are there? Also the vast majority of cheating comes from a) a lack if variety b) some thing lacking in the relationship/ssex life c) poor/weakened d) wrath e) cowardice.

Cheating in poly is very rare as most of the reasons for cheating are gone.

Jealously is a tough shIt situation, some people are very jealous some aren't I am not going to tell you poly is for every one. It's not but at the same time most people can manage

[–]theory_of_kinkunpilled outlier-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

TRP thought tends to be conservative leaning so simple solutions to problems like 40% of children being born into fatherless homes cannot be imagined - instead the solution is thought to lie in massive, archaic social engineering campaign to repress sexuality and turn the clock back.

Not going to happen.

Even if rich countries went through some post automation crash and pulled some "Handmaid's Tale" theocracy it would be as successful as the Iranian Revolution.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

Rich countries aren't going to go through a post automation crash so long as the birth and marriage rate keeps falling, and male birth control is rolled out free of charge.

It would crash spectacularly of there was some sudden revert to traditionalism - but thats impossible to do so there is no point in even discussing it.

[–]steelpuppy2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Rich countries aren't going to go through a post automation crash so long as the birth and marriage rate keeps falling, and male birth control is rolled out free of charge.

What about the 1-2 billion men in developing countries? Automation also means they lose jobs. You really think a bunch of uneducated <30 year olds with nothing to do will just decide to scrape by for the rest of their lives in peace? Idle hands are the devil's playground.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Developing countries will have their birth rate slowed down due to westernization by the time they get automation taking 40% of the work.

What trp sees as the threat to civilization is actually what civilization needs to do in order to survive.

[–]steelpuppy2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Developing countries will have their birth rate slowed down due to westernization by the time they get automation taking 40% of the work.

Sure they will but you are assuming they will be sufficiently economically developed before automation hits them. Once it does hit their economies will ground to a halt. Cheap developed world products at a fraction of the locally grown/made products.

We are already seeing this in agriculture were cheap food is destroying local farmers because they simply can't sell as low as developed countries can. Shit developed countries can sell at a loss simply to recover some costs of foods they couldn't sell in the west. Add in corruption and you have a shitstorm.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Sure they will but you are assuming they will be sufficiently economically developed before automation hits them.

It cannot hit them before they are significantly economically developed, think about it.

[–]steelpuppy1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Why not? I'm not talking about automation in their own country. By the time automation trickles to their countries the developed world will have been using it for decades.

Which means exports, which means extremely competitive products flooding the developing world which still doesn't have automation but has a birth rate that isn't falling fast enough and a job rate that is plummeting. Couple that with some good old fashioned Islam or whatever ideology takes it's place to placate the jobless masses and you have a shitstorm.

Not to mention that as they get more westernized their lifespan will increase.

You are making an assumption that all of this is going to be perfectly synchronized which I doubt.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

The work that is going to automation is stuff like waitress, nurse, trash collection - exports are already well automated.

You are making an assumption that all of this is going to be perfectly synchronized which I doubt.

No, its going to be a shit storm.

What would make it impossible is successfully clinging on to archaic systems like traditionalism.

[–]steelpuppy2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

No, its going to be a shit storm.

End of story. Glad we agree.

[–]wazzup987Blue pill, you can beat me black & blue for it later[S,🍰] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

i have made this point to TRP some many time and it like but the death of civilization

[–]theory_of_kinkunpilled outlier1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm in the UK. Our population is going up.

I find it hard to judge with certainty what the effect of automation will be. If creative destruction really has outpaced creation then a crash is inevitable.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The UK like most western countries has been relying on replacement migration as an interim solution.

It will not need replacement workers / population in the future.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I personally have no problem admitting that TRP strategy might work.

[–]cvcv19913 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

The red pill is right that most men are ugly.

[–]BakerofpieRed Pill Woman1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Are you a man, or a gay woman?

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points1 points 11 years ago | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Wow, that was uncalled for. Why so hateful?

[–]sumant283 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

BP is right that redpill attracts the absolute filthy gutter of the Internet to their sub (white supremacists, conspiracy theorists, homophobes etc)

[–]REE93 4 points4 points4 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I feel like this is just an attack on TRP. I'm not white, nor a racist nor a homophobe.

Also I give everyone the same respect that I would want given to me.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He's right, though. Albeit TRP has a fair share of guys of Indian/East-Asian origin (guess why...) and other guys of color, and also a surprising amount of left-wingers (not to mention AltTRP), it indeed attracts the gutter of right-wing extremists of all sorts who want to piggyback TRP to preach their ideology.

[–]IramadanceRed Pill Man2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Interesting. I'm black, grew up in a liberal ass fucking city in Massachusetts, and don't give a fuck about anything even closely related to any conspiracies.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

this doesn't mean that TRP doesn't attract the people he mentioned.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm none of those things. RP attracts men who have been burned when they (think they) did everything right.

[–]GaiusScaevolusMod TRP/AskTRP/BaM0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They are right that much of the Manosphere is 'angry' on some level. Also, given that 'sexism' is the belief that men and women are inherently different, the idea that TRP is 'sexist' is technically true.

[–]Lonny_zone0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

...

Street harassment should stop. It is bad.

As long as street harassment doesn't get redefined as "any moment an unattractive guy lifts his eyes up from the sidewalk."

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

That you can friendship your way into a relationship. She'll just be disgusting and used up.

[–]OfSpock0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Who says this?

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The bluepill notion that friends make the best partners.

[–]OfSpock0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Well, that's true. My husband and I are each others best friends but he asked me out the first time we met. Which is not how I took the comment I replied to.

Never mind. User is troll.

[–]VermiciousKnidzzBlue Pill Man-2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

uh, no one says anything about "friendshipping your way into relationships."

if you have a relationship with someone you can be great friends with otherwise, you're gonna be way happier. common sense. in no way is that equivalent to "become friends with women so you can sleep with them" as you imply

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Your wife/gf is not your friend, she is your companion. She is the one to potentially birth and nurture your children. Playing it 50/50 instead of 70/30~80/20 like a friend with her is a great way to be cheated on.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He implies that waiting for your crush can work if the girl hasn't gotten a guy when she starts to panic (because she's, well, disgusting and used up).

[–]wont_tell_i_refuseRed Orchestra0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Women enjoy poetry, grand gestures, and even occasional White Knightery when you're already fucking them.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think there's hope for a better future.

[–]nemma8830/F/UK INFP -t. Engaged-2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Someone building you up in the bedroom then going 'Oh wait promise of commitment first plz' (or some variant of) when it has been discussed that relationship type is off the table is god damn annoying.

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