She doesn't want your help. Stop offering.

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March 18, 2015
336 upvotes

Women, and to a lessor extent beta males, love to bitch and moan about their problems. How often have you heard a woman complain about something that seems insurmountable to her, but trivially easy to resolve for you? If you spend any measurable time around women, you'll see this frequently. My mind has been blown on countless occasions by crying women carrying on over complete non-issues that I can resolve with 5 minutes' effort. For the typical beta male nice guy (we've all been there), it is incredibly tempting to offer advice or even to simply resolve the problem for her.

Here's what I've learned: She doesn't want your help nor your advice and if it is given to her anyway, she won't appreciate it. Helping her will only result in your being used as an emotional tampon, beta orbiter and forever problem solver. Once she learns her problems magically resolve themselves (through your efforts) after little more than a few tears, she'll be crying on your shoulder as often as she can get away with. Your reward will be lies, manipulation and disdain. She will openly mock you in front of her friends and alpha fucks and you will quickly find yourself the laughing stock of her social circle.

Here are my rules of engagement for people, men and women alike, who come to me with their problems:

  1. Do not offer advice or help unless directly asked. Most of the time, people just want to unload. Your job is to listen and offer words of encouragement. "That's too bad." "I'm sorry you're going through this." "That must be difficult for you." This can be maddening, especially when the solution is obvious. Resist the temptation. Let her figure it out on her own. This will be the end of your involvement in most situations. Very few will actually ask, "What do you think?" or "What should I do?"

  2. If she does ask, this indicates she is open to your input. Only then should you offer advice and when you do, give it to her straight. Do not hold back. If she is the problem, tell her. If it isn't really a problem and she just needs to let it go, tell her. However, and this is important, do not offer to fix it for her. Simply tell her what she needs to do to resolve it on her own. "If I were in your shoes, this is what I would do." This is her problem, not yours. She's a big girl. If she wants your help implementing the solution, make her ask.

  3. If she does ask for help, you might actually be dealing with a reasonable person who truly wants a resolution to the issue at hand. This is rare, so congratulations on your choice of friends. When it comes to helping others, my philosophy is I will only help people who are willing to help themselves. If the problem isn't important enough for her to both ask for help and be willing to lift a finger to put forth minimal effort, why the fuck should it be important enough for me to take even a moment out of my life? It isn't and it shouldn't. Here's how you find out whether this is really a problem she wants to resolve or if she's just bored and wants to watch a monkey (you) jump through hoops: Devise a solution where the first step (or two or three) is all on her. Give her some small piece of the puzzle that she needs to complete in order to earn your participation. "Absolutely, I'd be happy to help you pack your things and move. I'm going to need you to buy some moving boxes, tape and packing materials. Let me know as soon as you've got the supplies." No, you won't buy them for her. No, you won't drive her to the store. Don't offer excuses, just say no. Make her do this all on her own to prove she is as invested in the solution as she would like you to be. If she asks why you won't do the simple part you just assigned, mock her. "You're kidding me, right? You're a big girl. I'm pretty sure you can handle buying a few boxes. Let me know when you've got them."

  4. Once she's done what you asked of her, only then do you step in and provide the promised help.

This technique works like a charm. I have avoided wasting my time on so many lazy, unappreciative sucker fish I've lost track of them all. In my experience, very few people make it to step 3. Virtually none make it to step 4. You'll get out of doing the work and come out of the situation smelling like a rose. She will be appreciative of your agreement to help and unable to deny she didn't do her part. Usually the problem goes unresolved, which indicates it was never really a problem to begin with. Sometimes she finds an orbiter willing to do it all for her. More power to them both, if he wants to be her bitch, let him and be glad it's not you.

Occasionally you will come across people who just want to bitch about the same problem over and over again. Quite frankly, I would not spend a lot of time listening to them and zero time attempting to help. They are not interested in resolving their problems, they just enjoy being victims. If the problem is fixed, their victim status disappears and they can't have that. Have you ever fixed a problem for someone only to have them sabotage the results and fall right back into despair? Some people just love to wallow in their misery. It's their identity. I slowly reduce contact with people like this until I have cut them from my life entirely. They're toxic. You don't need them.

TL;DR: Stop saving bitches from themselves. Make them ask for your help and advice. Never give it unsolicited and hold them accountable to do their part before doing yours.


Post Information
Title She doesn't want your help. Stop offering.
Author 1independentmale
Upvotes 336
Comments 91
Date 18 March 2015 11:20 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/30385
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2zixwi/she_doesnt_want_your_help_stop_offering/
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Comments

[–]Bulldog4487 points88 points  (15 children) | Copy

I learned this lesson young, working as a bouncer at a strip club. I was the doorman/bouncer that the girls all gave their money too after their set, which they all used as an opportunity to take an emotional and drama filled diarrhea dump all over me. After about a million pieces of sound, ignored advice, I realized that they didn't want to solve the problems, or if they did, they were too cowardly to take care of it themselves.

These days, my rule with the few girls close to me that I give a shit about is that I will listen to a problem one time, and if they don't want a solution, they don't get to tell me about it again, I'm getting too old to listen to whining.

[–]epixs10 points11 points  (14 children) | Copy

Really want to work as a bouncer part-time in my last year of undergrad before grad school. You enjoy the job? Currently a part-time personal trainer.

[–]Bulldog4488 points89 points  (12 children) | Copy

I worked at a shitty club with few customers, and I did not like it at all. Owners would disappear with the girls to smoke meth up on the roof, pay was for shit, hours sucked, and it doesn't take long before even boobs don't make up for it.

I recommend you do it though, it will teach you so much about women, invaluable first hand experience seeing just how fucked up, spiteful and plain nasty they are to each other. From full blown cat fights to leaving bloody tampons in each other's purses just for dancing to a song the other liked to dance to....this is experience you wont get so distilled anywhere else, except I suppose as a guard at a female prison.

You'll also get to observe the alpha bitch in her habitat, and see how she controls everyone around her, loved to her face and hated behind her back, really its like watching a documentary on hyenas.

And the saddest part is you'll get to see just how alarmingly fast that lifestyle can take a stunningly beautiful young girl and ugly her up fast. You can probably find enjoyment in it, plenty of meth head pussy to go around, but I can't imagine doing it long term.

You'll leave with stories to tell, that's for sure.

[–]1independentmale[S] 22 points23 points  (0 children) | Copy

really its like watching a documentary on hyenas.

Hahaha! I actually laughed out loud, that was fucking hilarious.

I like to sit back occasionally and try to view human behavior from the eyes of an outside observer. We really are just animals. We exhibit many of the instinctual behaviors of other mammals. A lot of the stupid shit people pull makes a lot more sense in that light.

Thanks for contributing. If you're ever bored enough to write a story or two about your bouncer days, I bet people would get a kick out of reading them. I know I would.

[–]epixs10 points11 points  (6 children) | Copy

Appreciate you typing that up, good insight for sure. Have a couple of bouncer friends who told me themselves they are disgusted with humanity after working there. I'll end up applying and just work a year before heading off, interesting experience to look forward to for sure.

[–]foldpak1116 points7 points  (5 children) | Copy

Wish I could experience it as well. Too bad we're not all 6'4" 260#

[–]1DRMMR766 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

This lol. I did Protective Services in the Army, even did PSD for the Secretary of Defense in Afghanistan during his visits, but because I'm only 5'7", I will never even be considered for something like bouncing. Doesn't matter I'm ripped, doesn't matter I've been to training schools specifically in how to deal with that sort of thing. I'm not tall so I'm automatically considered a weak pushover. I get in so many more fights as a road cop than my partner (who is 6'1") and I think it's because there is some short=easy circuit in the human brain when considering fight or flight. Of course I win every time, but it doesn't stop a lot of people from trying to fight me because they think the short guy is weak.

I know why clubs do it. They want someone who is intimidating, not necessarily someone that can actually fight. The idea is to stop the fight from starting in the first place. I understand it, but it still sucks. Just one of those little things in life that sucks, and most others don't get, when you're short. I'd be willing to be 9/10 of the guys who post all the "Dude, you're height doesn't matter at all" stuff on here are 5'10" or above. That's like a millionaire saying he doesn't care about money to a homeless guy.

[–]epixs3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

That's exactly the thing. I am intimidating, but have no idea how to fight. It's embarrassing to admit and hopefully once I get some downtime I can pick up MMA or boxing.

[–]Bulldog447 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm 6'0 and at the time was 220 or less, but I've been blessed with an intimidating demeanor, whether I'm trying to be or not, maybe in bigger cities it would be harder to get that job, but I did fine. I only had occasion to get rough a couple times, like I said, it was kind of boring and the club was very rarely busy.

[–]epixs-2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy

6'3, 241 right now. Hopefully by the end of my blast I should be around 250-255.

[–]foldpak1111 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

5'5" 145# who the fuck are u

[–]coffee_and_lumber2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

This reminds me of something I was considering the other day, that if you really want to see pure, wide-open examples of AWALT and so many other concepts we throw around here, go and find the young hot women at the bottom of the social spectrum and see how they react to both you and each other.

[–]1cover201 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thinking of women's behavior toward women gives a baseline from which to understand where they are at when interacting with you. For one thing you'll be grateful you have sexual attraction working for you -- at least you have a lever to use, and the opportunity to step away when it's not working. Another woman has none of this when dealing with a woman acting hateful, deceptive, etc.

YOU are her escape from that mess. So in return, if she has to please you, she very likely will do so. As long as she doesn't have to fight the negative feelings that she gets from a beta. It doesn't matter if you're tall or short, or ripped or fat, it's the beta interaction that causes that revulsion. ALL you have to do is avoid that, and she'll be back for more.

Just know 10% of what women know about each other, plus a few redpill lessons, and your interactions with women will be rewarding and you'll get a lot of what you want.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

You should post about your experiences here in detail. They seem to have potential to teach others needed lessons.

[–]Bascome1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

As a younger man I also worked the clubs Doorman at 17 and manager at 19. Everything this man says is true, and more.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Being a bouncer fucking sucks dude.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock27 points28 points  (3 children) | Copy

Good post.

I remember when I was still plugged in, if my girlfriend complained, I attempted to solve every problem. She would ignore my advise and even get irritated...I didn't understand. But one night, we were on a date, she was talking about family problems that really upsetted her. For the first time, I decided to leave her alone and just listen. There was silence for awhile. Five minutes later, she holds onto me, pulls me by the shirt and kisses me with more passion and enthusiasm than ever before and said, "Thank you".

Lesson:

Women need chaos and vent about it. Even if she asks for help, it's likely she just wants you to do everything, not explain it to her. You're supposed to be a rock that she can hold onto in her stormy seas of emotion. If you do it, she will be thankful even though she may not say it.

[–]asdfghjkltyu10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy

Women need chaos and vent about it. Even if she asks for help, it's likely she just wants you to do everything, not explain it to her. You're supposed to be a rock that she can hold onto in her stormy seas of emotion. If you do it, she will be thankful even though she may not say it.

Yeah exactly. They don't want you to explain it to them, they want you to make the bad feelings go away. Often "It'll be ok" is usually the best tool.

But even then, you're falling into the trap of giving women what they want.

[–]1independentmale[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm fond of, "There, there...". Stroke her head while you say it for extra effect. Makes my LTR feel like a silly little girl, which she is, and gets the point across that "I care about you even though you're being ridiculous right now."

[–]Zachar1a 35 points35 points [recovered] | Copy

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Amazing. And if we came across people with these obvious problems that they refused to acknowledge, we'd walk away. Yet, we see it all the time and put up with these people anyway.

[–]mustang_mike-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Haha, I love this so much. Was about to post it, good thing I did a ctrl+f first.

"Yeah... well... you do have a nail... in your head..."

[–]1cover2011 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

OP is a nicer guy than I am. I have compressed it into a simple rule that avoids the complication of his point 3.

Don't help girls.

[–]Iramohs11 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy

I literally experienced this today. I work at UPS part time and a co-worker asked me to help her tape up and move some boxes. I told her to go get the tape and the new boxes(for the packages), she did neither.

[–]1independentmale[S] 23 points24 points  (1 child) | Copy

What she meant and what most women mean when they say, "Will you help me?", is "Will you do it for me?"

My answer is always no. No, I will not just do it all for you. Yes, I will help, but we're doing it together. Here's the piece I'm willing to do. Here's the piece you're going to do. Get your piece started first. Usually they find someone else to help do it all for them or it doesn't get done at all. That's fine by me.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You see this a lot at tafe. Women are just leeches and want answers. I'll help you, but won't just freely give answers

[–][deleted] 30 points31 points  (5 children) | Copy

I have found that offering advice or help actually upsets women more. They usually don't want anything more than empathy

[–]Myrpl5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

I personally remember many times that even after they implored me for advice and gave some they outright dismissed it because "I'm obviously wrong".

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Right. She is so annoyed that you didn't get it ..You are so clueless you tried to help

[–]Endorsed ContributorNiftyDolphin5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

You can display "empathy" by mirroring a woman's typical reaction in the same situation.

Have you ever told your problem to a woman? I'll bet the first thing they did was hijack the conversation with a rambling, indignant story in which something remotely similar happened to them. They then go on to talk about how that problem affected them, ignoring your problem altogether.

So just do that, but make sure to preface it with, "OMG, I know exactly how you feel." Boom, you're displaying female empathy.

[–]1cover202 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

They want much more. But by offering advice you make them think you can be talked into just doing it too, and when you refuse at that point, you are likely to get shit from them.

Since that's the sort of creatures they are, it's most reasonable just to refuse your help. Of if she'll give you a blowjob or other truly valuable consideration, well consider it, but you must make damn sure she gives too.

[–]zippydrive0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I concur. As a man, my help was always to solve the problem. Until she said 'I don't want you to solve the problem, I only want you to listen'. Then I stopped trying to solve...

[–]Endorsed ContributorInvalidity20 points21 points  (0 children) | Copy

Guidelines for helping women:

  1. Is she a platonic friend who you have no feelings for or a family member?

If yes, help her at your own discretion (whether you want to or not).

  1. If no, is this person a stranger?

If yes, you do not need to help her (it's your choice, as she is a stranger).

  1. If no, are you attracted to this individual?

If the answer is no, you are bullshitting me because you would have either classified them as a friend or family member.

  1. If yes, are you in a relationship with this person?

If the answer is no, you shouldn't be helping person unless it is absolutely something that they cannot do themselves. You can if you want to, but that paints the image of a provider in the back of her mind. If you believe this is trivial stuff, you are missing the picture. Men who have their shit together, treat women as people. And in treating women as people, you recognize that they can handle menial tasks themselves. But the same men recognize that women have their limitations and will help them in extreme cases (moving something that she is clearly unable to move because she is weaker).

[–]asdfghjkltyu7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Very good post.

Even ignoring the 'she just wants attention, not your help' stuff, which mostly is true, consider the complete opposite point of view to what she wants; what you want.

The problem with helping people like this is that you make it your problem. Now the problem itself may be something thats relatively simple to solve. But you've now established yourself as the 'master of solving that area of issues'. For instance, if you help her move once, you'll probably be asked to help her move again. What if something happens to break when you're helping her move, is that your problem?

This happens on every single possible level. Now of course that doesn't mean you should never help other people with their issues. But it does mean you should really look deep and consider if the issue is going to have carry over effects.

I find usually when you help people anyway, they don't care. Be that listen and offer advice or actively do something. Its forgotten in a week.

I'm sure we've all been young and silly and keen to help everyone with everything, but the older I've gotten the more I've realized it doesn't make people look up at you, it just kind of makes them look down at you, like a servant. Next time someone's internet won't connect they can call the ISP...

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (5 children) | Copy

Funny story. Girl in my programming class in college asked for help on a project, so I arranged a meet up at her place to help her. She wanted me to just do the work for her, and i said no and offered to walk her through and explain how the procedures work, letting her solve it as I acted as a guide. She wasn't thrilled.

She also contacted me a few times on facebook after that. Only ever for borrowing homework assignments. I never gave them to her, she then blocked me. Since I wasn't of use to her, I then turned invisible.

[–]laere8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy

Lesson:

99.9% of the time a girl asks for help she wants you to do everything.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

This was years ago, and yep. She 100% was tryin to use me, and when it didnt work she dropped contact.

[–]laere0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is what a girl tried pulling on me, even in my bp days I would only tolerate so much shit from girls. I immediately ghosted her. Only time she ever contacted me again was to try and get something again from me.

[–]1cover201 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

You did too much, causing a lot of resentment. Next time I recommend simply being busy, or if you want to see her place, show up then have an emergency phone call and have to leave.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This was years ago. She no longer found me of value and dropped contact. It was amusing.

[–]real-boethius7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Devise a solution where the first step (or two or three) is all on her. Give her some small piece of the puzzle that she needs to complete in order to earn your participation.

One of those things I would like to have known years ago.

People like their problems. That's why they have them.

[–]motorcyclematt4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

A wise man once said, "She don't wanna be saved, don't save her."

[–]Endorsed ContributoriBrokeRSA1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGobXsmPx78

hip-hop was redpill as hell from 1987-2007

[–]skoobled0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Indeed. Or rather, you can't "save" her. There will always be future problems, these will invalidate anything you did to fix previous problem, ergo you are chasing your tail

See also "how do you make a woman happy?". Answer, you can't; don't even try

[–]1cover200 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Or "don't save her, she'll turn on you."

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Wish I had this advice years ago!

I've even had females turn on me because the help wasn't good enough (i.e. I made a genuine mistake). Also, learning to say no is quite empowering - just start small and work your way up.

Stay vigilant.

[–]omanisherin3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

So I was married for ten years. One of the issues I had with my Ex was that she kept coming to me with dumb easily solved problems, and I would get pissed off when she didn't take my advice and just fix the problem. Turns out that women have completely different communication systems then men and talk about problems without any real desire to fix them. But as a man I am hard wired to resolve issues.

I used to think that the women in my life were just whiny, but it turns out I had to learn how to communicate with women better (not just lovers, but all women in general).

The book I read that had the most impact on this for me was "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus". I highly recommend this read (audio book is better) if you are looking to improve your communication game with girls.

[–]kevkos4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Sorry that's a horrible book in my opinion. It puts us at odds with women. "That's just the way I am!" That's not a healthy way to act. Instead, check out Marshall Rosenberg's Non-Violent Communication. That can help you communicate effectively with people in general, and especially women.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

[–]Scottsdale482 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I needed this advice right now. Thank you!

[–]reddit_trp 3 points3 points [recovered] | Copy

This is actually really good. Sometimes I forget to do step 3 but it's definitely a must. You want to make sure that she's actually invested in it.

[–]1independentmale[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Step 3 is my favorite. Sometimes people jump right to it. I appreciate skipping the laborious first two steps and getting straight to the good part where I find out just how badly they want it and how willing they are to work for it. I often make little bets with myself, usually not in their favor. People rarely disappoint.

I'm also fond of tailoring what I ask of them depending on the person, the request, how willing I am to help and so on. I usually assign them the shit tasks I don't want to do. You want me to help paint your house? Great - prep the surface, mask everything off and hand me the spray gun. I'm doing the fun part.

[–]1cover200 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I like your last example, but I am not so good at thinking of it that way, so I generally just say no.

[–]buddboy2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I am lucky (or unlucky) enough to have had far more platonic female friends than the average male including many female room mates over the years.

The types of problems OP is referring to are emotion based and therefore necessitate an emotional solution, not a logical ones. If you want to hep the girl solve her problem, don't provide her logical advice because she won't see how that will help stop the feeling she is currently feeling which is making her upset. She is stuck in the moment and needs an immediate emotional answer to her problem. Pretend to agree with her or at least support her.

This is all she needs and wants. Ride out the storm and it will pass quicker the more you are on her side.

So if you are stuck in this situation, don't give advice. Find out what emotion is driving her and give emotional support accordingly, thats it

[–]1Goomich1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Here are my rules of engagement for people, men and women alike, who come to me with their problems:

  1. Don't be emotional tampon.

[–]marty2k1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Women are socialized into thinking the world solves their problems for them from a young age. If they are even somewhat attractive they have hundreds of beta guys willing to do whatever they need.

For us guys, no one gives a shit so either we learn to handle things ourselves or just have nothing get done in our lives (both are very common). Women have found complaining to other people (especially beta males) is much easier and faster to get what they want then to simply do it themselves. They don't want advice or life lessons, they either want you to do it for them or to just listen and nod.

[–]thedude1224871 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Do not offer advice or help unless directly asked. Most of the time, people just want to unload. Your job is to listen and offer words of encouragement. "That's too bad." "I'm sorry you're going through this." "That must be difficult for you." This can be maddening, especially when the solution is obvious. Resist the temptation. Let her figure it out on her own. This will be the end of your involvement in most situations. Very few will actually ask, "What do you think?" or "What should I do?"

This is not only good for you, but I think it's actually a little rude to offer unsolicited advice. I get annoyed when people do it to me because then I have to take the time and energy to explain that I already know what I'm doing. Just don't do it.

[–]unsure_RP_initiate1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

[–]1independentmale[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That was spot on. Thank you for sharing.

[–]LivingUnplugged1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

I have never seen anyone so eloquently lay it out. Thank you. Question:

What do you do with parents who say "I need you to do something for me". It's like some mafia shit with my mom sometimes. It's like there's this huge debt that I supposedly owe her for the fact that she gave birth to me and raised me. Even as I type that, I wonder if it's true. Do I owe my mom an un-payable debt?

APOLOGY: Sorry dudes for bringing in mom issues. But this is the one woman in my life who still is able to fuck with my head. I feel like once I get that relationship operating correctly, everything else will fall into place at a quicker pace.

[–]1independentmale[S] 4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

That depends. Do you still live with your mom, or is she paying your rent, helping with college or otherwise supporting you? If the answer is yes, the only acceptable response is some variation of, "Yes, absolutely. How can I help?"

I have kids, my oldest is 18 and there is nothing more frustrating to a parent than a kid who won't pitch in and help. Some seem to think they deserve things just because they breathe air. I've had to remind mine on more than one occasion that they don't "deserve" shit, they have it because I work hard and I love them. Those iPhones and computers and everything else I buy them, that shit is optional. Stop helping me around the house because you think you're too cool to do chores and it all goes away real fast.

So my response to people still dependent on their parents (regardless of how old you are) is to suck that shit up and help out with a smile on your face. If the requests are irrational or burdensome, it's ok have a conversation with her about your concerns, but be super respectful. If it's a real problem for you, get your shit together so you're paying for all of your own bills and living in your own place. Then you can do whatever the fuck you want.

Now, that being said: As we grow older, become an adult and start living on our own, our relationships with our parents change. I've been paying my own bills since I moved out at 18 and bought my first house a year later. Slowly, my parents took on a different role in my life. Today they're my closest friends, the only people I can trust completely with my life, my money and everything else. We're equals now. We have an adult relationship. We communicate differently, so my response to your question changes.

Do I owe my mom an un-payable debt?

No, you do not.

When my parents ask me for help, I do everything in my power to say yes. I was one of the lucky ones and got a decent Mom & Dad who love me and took good care of me. They're incredibly important to me. Note that I do still make them invest in it and do their part like I would for anyone else (step 3). I'm nobody's slave. I'll help, I won't just do it for you and it will be on my terms. I won't cancel my plans just because dad wants his computer fixed right now. He has to wait until I have time just like anyone else - though my parents' requests usually get a higher priority than others.

However, if my mom used the phrase "I need you to," we would have a conversation. I don't appreciate being demanded of. I make people ask me for help because the act of asking forces them to admit that they need me and I'm doing them a favor of my own free will. I don't care who you are, you will phrase your statement in the form of a question and in a manner that acknowledges my opportunity to say no and inherent kindness in saying yes. Basically, do not tell me what to do or we will exchange words.

I won't be a dick about it, though. Most people mean well and don't realize they're being disrespectful. "I need you to" would be met with teasing: "I need a yacht." Then go right back to what I was doing like I didn't hear the rest. If they continue, I'll deflect, ignore or tease some more. If they don't get the hint, though, I'll go direct: "Are you asking me or telling me?" When they respond, "Asking", I'll tell them to ask: "Then ask me." And I will look them in the eye and wait patiently for the appropriate words to come out when asking a favor of someone. "Will you, would you, could you" are all perfectly acceptable. I'll even take a "can you" from time to time, though I'll probably give you shit for it. It's important to be happy and carefree when you do this. You can't come off as upset or annoyed. Firm is ok. Irritated and pissed off is bad.

This may seem like a minor thing, but it really makes a difference in how people treat me. It's an issue of politeness and respect. A person who humbles himself to ask for my help is showing a sign of respect and will appreciate and remember the help I've provided instead of simply taking me for granted while feeling smug about passing some shit job off on to me. I think you know exactly what I mean - the demand inherent in a statement such as "I need you to" clearly bothers you just as it does me.

I hope this helps.

[–]LivingUnplugged0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is amazingly helpful. Thank you.

[–]LivingUnplugged0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

This was an incredibly helpful reply. Thank you so much.

Do I owe my mom an un-payable debt? No, you do not.

It means a lot to hear somebody else say that. Thank you. My mom, who I love dearly, has been emotionally in pain her entire life and has not infrequently blamed that on me (non-verbally, but very clearly). I'm in my thirties now and am only home for 6 months, before moving out of the state again. We've been mostly out of touch for 10 years. I only agreed to move back in after she had really made an effort to woo me back.

And now, she is reverting to old ways again. I have a question about how to apply your advice to this particular situation. You said that if people use the "I need you to help me", you will do the following:

If they don't get the hint, though, I'll go direct: "Are you asking me or telling me?" When they respond, "Asking", I'll tell them to ask: "Then ask me."

Recently, my mom has been saying "I need to check in with you before you leave", as I'm walking out the door. Today, I playfully said "You need to check in with me or what? You're going to explode?" She laughed, a little derisively, with some clear surprise at my 'pluck', and explained that she needed to know some things so she could make some decisions that evening. So I sat there and submitted myself to a 10-minute interview/interrogation about stuff that was clearly super important to her and which she felt she depended on me for.

What sort of phrasing could I require my mom use to be more respectful, with this whole "I need to check in with you" business? Like you, I love my mom and am grateful how caring and compassionate she is. I don't want to be a jerk and I do want to be helpful. But sometimes I feel I'm not being helpful by being so easily stopped in my tracks, literally, every time she says "I need to check in with you" with that urgent tone in her voice...

[–]1independentmale[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I apologize for the late reply.

I don't understand this "I need to check in with you" business. Who is checking in with who? Surely you have not asked her to check in with you? It sounds to me like she wants you to check in with her, like you're a child and she's still trying to parent you. Is that the case? If so, she is intentionally twisting her words to manipulate you. This is crazy people stuff. You need to understand that. Normal people don't do this.

My mom, who I love dearly, has been emotionally in pain her entire life and has not infrequently blamed that on me (non-verbally, but very clearly).

Your mother isn't healthy. I suspect she has been emotionally abusing and manipulating you and others around her for a very long time. I wonder, if this is true, whether you realize the extent of what she's done to you and whether you'll be able to break free of it. I don't know if a toxic person like this can ever be fixed.

If I'm right, the only way to salvage your relationship with your mother will be to live on a different level from her. What do I mean by that... She is broken. Not well. She is really, really good at manipulating others. She has made you feel her problems are your fault. This is crazy 101, I should know I was fucking married to it for 15 years. You have to disassociate. Get out of the woods she has put you in so you can see again. She is a broken little girl, you're a big strong man, you aren't on the same level. She is well below you. She's like a mouse and you're a goddamn falcon. Pity her if you like, but don't you fucking ever get down on her level again and let her whisper crazy talk in your ear. Don't you ever let her manipulate you or tell you what to do again.

Come down to her level only to visit with her, to love her for the parts of her that are lovable, but ignore the rest. Laugh her off and rise back up to the rarified air men like you and I breathe the moment she starts to pull you in. Treat her like a patient and loving father would a tiny child. Have you ever watched a 3 year old put her hands on her hips and try to talk shit about how it's going to be? My daughter once demanded I take her somewhere after I told her no. It was fucking hilarious, this tiny thing with a diaper still on her ass, barely able to even dress herself and she thought she was going to make me do some shit. It didn't upset me - I laughed my ass off and teased her a bit, then laughed some more when she tried to escalate.

Your mother is a goddamn infant. Entertain her if it suits you, but live your life with zero regard for her input. Do things for her, or not, as you see fit and appropriate. Never out of guilt. Never out of obligation. Do not get drawn in to the web she weaves with her words, her convoluted and twisted mannerisms. This is carefully calculated to keep you right where she wants you, but this is the only power she has over you: Her ability to control you.

It's the only power any woman has over a man. You can make this stop. You know when she's doing it. Trust your instincts. Smile, deflect, ignore, say no, walk away. Never get drawn into an argument or heated discussion with a toddler.

There are some books on a topic called "love and logic." I recommend you do some research on the concept. You can probably get a lot off the internet for free. It might help you learn to deal with your mother, teach you some words and phrases that are helpful when interacting with difficult people.

Today, I playfully said "You need to check in with me or what? You're going to explode?" She laughed, a little derisively,

This is a great start. You've got the core concept down. Keep asserting your ground playfully. Eventually, you might have to get serious, but you can do that with a smile on your face and a warm heart. I once took my 30 year old toddler wife's hands into mine in the midst of a tamper about my plans for the evening and said, "Sweetheart, I love you very much. You're going to be just fine until I get home. I'll see you at ten." And off I went without entertaining her a moment longer.

[–]Catalyst_54740 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Here is a comedic video that sums your point up nicely.

Edit: Well it looks like someone else beat me to it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The only women I help are the elderly if they need it and only if physical labor is needed. Helping a hot piece of ass is a waste of my energy and resources since they don't need it to begin with.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Welp this one hit hard for me. its crazy how a woman can go from crying on your shoulder to eeew get away from me you creep and then basically mock you. its no wonder so many dudes kill themselves after breakups. they come across as genuine then stab you right in the back .. craziness.

" Your reward will be lies, manipulation and disdain", check.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, I totally get that, and always have.

Here's the deal: I don't want to waste an hour of my day talking about her bullshit, and there's no genteel way of saying "I really don't want to have to hear about more of this". Hell, there isn't even a non-off-putting way to say "Get to the fucking point already!" Simply listening and being neutrally supportive, i.e. "that sucks" and "wow, what a complete tool that person was to you" usually invites even more bullshit to be thrown at you, in my experience. You'll be there for an hour listening to solipsistic emotional narcissism.

How do you break this pattern? You can't just get up and walk away, and you can't just say "OK, bored now", and trying to redirect to some other activity leads to "what's more important, me or <insert other thing>".

It seems to me if you don't start off relationships terminating these kinds of interactions by being somewhat of an asshole, you've doomed yourself being thought an even bigger one when you try later in the relationship. It's all about expectations: if she expects asshole behavior, and gets some emotional validation before ending the conversation, she can rationalize it as positive: "well, at least he's trying, and he did listen for 10 minutes." If she expects you, based on previous experience, to be just like a girlfriend, and suddenly you turn asshole after the 5th day in a row of over-half-hour bitch sessions, now it's a betrayal of her emotional trust: you weren't as engaged as you appeared to be (and just how long did she sit there making an emotional fool of herself to someone who wasn't really engaged?). Now you are twice the asshole: you're an asshole for cutting her off, and an asshole for letting her make a fool of herself for some indeterminate period of time. At least, that's how she'll feel. Unlike a man who gets a similar rebuke, she will never attempt to step outside her own frame of mind and say "wow... so that's his limit on how much of that he can take.... now I know I need to stop way before I think I should".

[–]jadaho 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

As my favorite song by J. Cole goes, "Don't save her. She don't want to be saved."

[–]1cover200 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Second part is unnecessary. If she wants to be saved surely she can get a girlfriend to save her. That way there's no romantic aspect to it.

Of course she can't get a girlfriend to help and would even feel very awkward asking. Girls don't help each other. They know the score, it's time we caught on.

[–]Mudane-2 points-1 points  (20 children) | Copy

That's so true I'm 14 but ive been in the game for some good time. So I know my stuff, you never ever give advice unless they ask. Prime example I was talking To this girl named Julia. She's a major drama queen, she would take pictures of her self crying. Yeah like cmon, me being a youngin in the seduction game came to her aid. Constantly giving advice and being for her. Guys that won't work if your trying to get her. At all

[–]1cover202 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Well said, and glad you're reading here. I'm an old married guy, and I think this stuff can only help you.

[–]Mudane0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Oh and another thing since I have read over that thing again. Don't even try to even come at me with response abilities or being responsible you hypocrite. Talking about your not responsible for anything you do. You killed off your response ability, when you could I've found a job or something to pay for your dam baby. I don't how old you are but you act like a kid from what you are giving me. A man or boy too chicken to man up and be a father. Regardless of the obstacles in his way.

[–]Dongbei 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Dude, you haven't been in shit for as long as fuck. Worry about your homework, making your parents proud, and staying out of trouble. Seriously, your parents should know you browse redpill and you need to discuss your online activities with them.

[–]real-boethius6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Red Pill is good information every 14 years old boy should have.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

I see people talking about how young men/boys need male mentors all to often in Red Pill circles. It's true.

Most boys do not have proper guidance as their parents aren't exactly great when it comes to teaching them to be a man and they don't get a chance to find male mentors IRL.

Frankly, the fact that he's found TRP at this young age will do something incredible for him - that most of us missed out on. He'll never have to experience being beta as fuck. He could be a real man from the start, so long as he internalizes the right stuff.

Frankly, that's great. I have no clue how you could possibly claim otherwise.

Sure, the content on TRP is pretty risque, but trust me, as somebody who is seventeen and was his age very recently, it's nothing he won't have already seen/heard. Hundreds of times. I'd kill to have found TRP a few years earlier.

[–]1independentmale[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You're 17, brother? You write better than most adults. With your communication skills, you should go far in this world.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Cheers bud, been something I've been passionate about for almost my entire life. First tried writing a novel at the age of six or so... Made it about fifty pages in before I decided to go out and kick a ball around.

Looking forward to being more than just a novice when it comes to red pill ideas and theories. Will give some more serious(ish) writing a crack.

[–]Echelon641 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

you haven't been in shit for as long as fuck.

and if he keeps reading he won't have to be. Good for him reading this sub I say.

[–]1DRMMR760 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Horse shit. I'm 31 and I wish I had a time machine so I could teach my 14yo self RP truths. 14 is pretty much the age where a boy gets started down the Alpha path or Beta path. Do you realize how many lonely desperate friendzoned White Knights out there could have benefited from someone pulling them aside when they were 14 and telling them "Stop doing favors for girls. It makes them hate you. Go join the track or wrestling team"?

[–]NonexistantNomNom0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

On the contrary, it's great OP found out about this at a young age. Learning is best at a (relatively) young age, whether it's languages at age 7 or TRP at age 14. I would have killed to have had the courage to open up my brain four years ago, before I got into highschool, and realized that my "nice guy" attitude wasn't going to cut it.

Now I'm here, social confidence damaged and social anxiety heightened. And down one damn good Kurt Warner replica jersey, among other things. Better to never fall than to climb out.

[–]Mudane0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I know I'm fourteen, what does a youngin know about getting girls. But trust I know my fair share and I've dealt with the dark side of seduction. Like exploting women's weakness and insecurities. To using conversational hypnosis pattern from from twisted people. To studying psychology , to learning how to break a women's mental aka pimping. I I've had my fair share, I'm not a virgin. So relax and let's talk like adults. We have a common goal so let not my age matter but let my experience and knowledge do.

[–]Dongbei 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Have you ever driven to the ER to get a dose of plan B because you ain't paying child support for the next 18 years? Did you kickaho out of your apartment because she had herpes? Your age matters. It matters because you are not responsible for a single fucking thing you do. Your parents are. Do you share the opinions you've written here with your teachers? No you don't. Shit, Redpill isn't even about women, it's about yourself. I have had gym membership longer than you've been alive. You're talking about exploiting women's weaknesses? What women? Don't try to tell me your little junior high friends are women. The only woman in your life is your mother. What would she do if she saw what you have written? She'd take your fucking computer away. Why would you even tell me if you're a virgin? Fuck you for even telling me you creep. Males can't even be virgins. You gonna give birth to Jesus or something?

Your age doesn't matter when you're 25 but it matters when you can't even have a fucking cigarette in England. ENGLAND! I wouldn't even say these things to your face because I would be busy asking your parents why you are unescorted in public. Worry about your school, and staying out of trouble that your not even old enough to be prosecuted for anyway. I fucking hate children, fuck /r/redpill for allowing kids access and say whatever you want next because I am not interacting with you again. Jesus you probably didn't even have dick hair during the London Olympics. Fuck off.

edit: I'd tell you to kiss my ass but that would put me on a list.

[–]Mudane0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Dongbei I understand that in some cases age does matter. And those situation were probably very troubling you. Especially the point about abortion. I'm saying I have a lot experience in girls. I don't truly know what red pills for and I'll admit. But in this article. The topic is women, advice. So excuse me if I know thing or two regardless of my age

[–]red_gerb-3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Fourteen!? Well, I guess if you shave, and have hair on your balls..welcome to The Club! You're going to be a shark by 16. But you being a minor, my lawyer recommends I cease communication immediately.



You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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