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Sitting in a girls living room while she is denying she is with anyone to her boyfriend

by on /r/TheRedPill
03 February 2018 07:15 PM UTC

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Disclaimer: if this post doesn't seem useful please feel free to delete it mods. I'm doing my best here.

I'm currently waiting this out so thought I would post how powerful the red pill is to us guys. I just slept with an ex who has a boyfriend, and he showed up banging on the door a few minutes ago because he suspected she was lying to him. She didn't answer the door so now I'm sitting in the living room listening to their conversation on the phone.

She is vehemently denying that she is cheating on him. The real lesson here doesn't have anything to do with the girl, but the head space that this other guy is in. According to what the girl told me in the last 24 hours, he has been suspecting foul play for the last two weeks.

If you're new to the red pill, and even if you're not, most of us can probably relate to this guy. He's dating a girl, she is kinda into him (but only out of convenience for her -- she just likes being with someone). She has lied to him several times in front of my face. Now they're talking on the phone and I'm sure she's gonna convince him to stay with her. This girl is hot, and according to her he is pretty head over heels for her while she isn't for him. The poor guy locked down (or so he thought) some hot pussy and is terrified to give it up. He's showing up at her place unannounced.

The most powerful thing I've learned here at the red pill is not to pursue women that aren't head over heels for you. I've tried to pursue girls that weren't excited about me because I thought they were 10's, and you end up like this guy. Don't be that guy, you can't negotiate honesty and fidelity.

Edit: put the power in your own hands.

Post Information
Title Sitting in a girls living room while she is denying she is with anyone to her boyfriend
Upvotes 666
Comments 177
Date 03 February 2018 07:15 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/48548
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/7v1dl4/sitting_in_a_girls_living_room_while_she_is/
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458 upvotesLavlamp2 years ago

From Mark Mason's blog

The Law of “Fuck Yes or No” states that when you want to get involved with someone new, in whatever capacity, they must inspire you to say “Fuck Yes” in order for you to proceed with them.

The Law of “Fuck Yes or No” also states that when you want to get involved with someone new, in whatever capacity, THEY must respond with a “Fuck Yes” in order for you to proceed with them.

-Adapting this mentality keeps you focused on your mission. Time is too valuable to waste on the undeserving.

124 upvotesDocbear642 years ago

Polarization is the greatest time saver in gauging how a person truly feels about / values you . It changed my world to understand that women who are into you are into you right now and the ones who are lukewarm / not that interested will be more than happy to let you work for their attention and time .

Once you meet women who are in that " Fuck Yes " group of interest you see how pointless it is to chase the " Fuck No " or " Meh" responders .

64 upvotesPreOrgasmGroanLness2 years ago

Once you meet women who are in that " Fuck Yes " group of interest you see how pointless it is to chase the " Fuck No " or " Meh" responders .

Most of this sub wastes way too much time chasing the "Meh" group. So much effort wasted, the "fuck yes" group shit tests you only every so often coz they can't afford for more. Why bother?

21 upvotesGallobrax2 years ago

A very interesting observation. I've actually taken step back from this sub as of late as (I felt I was becoming too cynical) and your comment articulates why very well. For many we are chasing what does not exist. Furthermore, we encourage an existence which is entirely self dependant. Sure you'll get laid but you miss put on what is really the point of all of this work - potential partnership. Incidently, once you start going after these fuck yes women you start to realize that this goal isn't some blue pill bullshit either: it's a situation you create. Same rules apply, and you have to be ready to walk from anything but again if your just looking for sex why bother? That's easy. This is why I think a lot of us keep having to get wiped off the floor. TRP is only a roadmap. Individually you have to do the rest. That means finding a woman who is willing to follow and learn, being open to being wrong yourself and most importantly never sacrificing yourself entirely for a woman - If you don't feel it Next her; Not now but right now.

6 upvotesTsdave812 years ago

This right here is you being sent to the friend zone but really you weren't ready for them in the first place. You want to relate but get stepped on In The same process. TRPTruth. FuckYes or FuckNo

7 upvotesgreenlittleman2 years ago

I don't think so. Most girls are changes after sex with you from "meh" to "fuck yes", so if you haven't fucked girl yet, you can proceed with her for some time you can afford to waste (usually 1-2 meetings is more than enough). Best thing to "pull" girls from "meh" to "fuck yes" isn't being nice and kind, but being "polarizing", in other words doing things you want to do, but which she can possibly dislike.

2 upvotesOtter_Limits2 years ago

Most of this sub wastes way too much time chasing the "Meh" group.

Why bother?

My guess it that a guy considers himself a "real alpha" when he is pulling the "impossible girl", the kind of woman that has a reputation for saying "No", regardless of the guy. If you can get with a woman willingly, even when she would ordinarily be against it, you must be hot sh*t. What guy doesn't want to go through life, knowing he got the girl no one else could?

The bigger the obstacle, the better the payoff.

41 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Yup I have read this also. For me, particularly, this has been one of the most important pieces of advice. Too many times I chased hot bitches and made myself a chump.

17 upvotesIn33dmon3yz2 years ago

Preach Brother i am Recovering From One of Those. She was Head over heals in the beginning tho but i fucked up somewhere

10 upvotesItsgeneticsbruh2 years ago

You showed her that you where Head over heals for her. At that point the game was over. Im going through something similar, and that's how I see it. Live and learn.

7 upvotesShaney962 years ago

She wants to chase you. Once she knows she's gotten you, and you almost succumb to her, then the excitement she gets from the partnership/relationship/whatever-the-fuck is gone.

1 upvotesgododgers172 years ago

I'm in the process of this happening also where the girl is losing interest after I took her back.. how do I flip this back around? Should I just ignore her, hook up with another girl that she knows I used to see to get her jealous again? Or use a dark triad technique

-5 upvotesSaberinbed2 years ago

I’ve been in the same exact position as you, but worse. The boyfriend knew she cheated on him. She was texting him that hes with me after i fucked her and went to dinner.She even asked him to take a break because i wanted to date her ( yes i was stupid, she was just hot af and i got blinded by the pussy ) and the guy said no, that he was afraid that he couldnt get her back from me. She told me i was the second guy she cheated on with, and she still wants to stay with her boyfriend.

She has strict parents and they expect a lot from her, and their parents have already met each other. I honestly felt bad for her and tried talking some sense into her, because she used to go to my highschool, and i just wanted to help her get her shit together.

So long story short, the guy is studying to become a doctor, and the girl uses the guys place to stay at because she goes to school there and wont have to commute. They are still together.

She even told me she wanted to marry him, a week after i fucked her.

10 upvotesEdaBagaDix2 years ago

You feel bad FOR HER?!


-6 upvotesSaberinbed2 years ago

Yeah i’m a cuck for fucking someones girlfriend.

I wouldnt care if i didint know from highschool. Her strict parents fucked up her up.

But yeah you are right, i was a BP moron back then. That shit woke me.

1 upvotesGallobrax2 years ago

I would feel bad for her too. Sounds like she has more hormones then brains.

-4 upvotesSaberinbed2 years ago

IE almost every woman haha.

Im going at this situation based off what i feel is right. I know it may seem like BP tendencies to feel bad and try to help a girl in this sitation, but you have all this talk about holding frame and doing what you want to do. I have broken frame with her after fucking her because i was shook she was still with her boyfriend. Like i said, this was before i swallowed TRP, and didint know any better and was feeding my beta insecurity of loosing the grade A pussy.

Now that my mind is clear, i can either leave her to ruin her life, or try and slowly help her out.

0 upvotesIncel98762 years ago

Her strict parents fucked up her up.

How do you figure that parents fucked her up? Isn't it more likely that she'd wouldn't have a marriage with a doctor lined up, and to be even more unfaithful to partners, if she hadn't had strict parents?

6 upvotesSaberinbed2 years ago

Shes in her rebillious phase. She probably found out that after dating her boyfriend that hes actually a beta loser, but is forced to because her parents already accepted him into the family knowing hes a future doctor. Its typical asian parents. They arr both asian btw, so go figure.

She even told me she never came before during sex either, so no wonder shes going to cheat on him. I couldnt make her cum either though.

26 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

This reminds me of that quote from Stefan molyneux "Be so fucking great that they can't say no"

2 upvotesdialecticwizard2 years ago

Be so fucking great, it does not bother you what anyone says as you know you're a winner..

1 upvotesLavlamp2 years ago

Great quote, hits the nail on the head

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Stefan molyneux is really good at putting things in perspective.

10 upvotesAndgelyo2 years ago

Time is too valuable to waste on the undeserving

Completely agree with you. Got an Egyptian girl’s number on tinder and we hit it off immediately. Flirted, texted sexually, and spoke on the phone for about 2 weeks. We had arrangements to even fuck later on this month(because I’ll have a open crib). I decided to meet up with her for some hot chocolate yesterday in NYC. Met her up and she turned out to be the biggest fucking cunt I’ve ever met. The whole time talking to me she was texting on her phone, forgetting details I had to mentioned to her like 5 times, and had a conversation with her gay friend in front of me. Not to mention she was about 30lbs heavier than she looked. Perhaps my SMV wasn’t high enough for her to be interested, or maybe she’s just naturally a cunt. But at that point,I decided I’m not going to tolerate a disrespectful bitch, let alone sleep with one. Ended the date early, she even said to me “Be honest, are you not enjoying the time spent with me” and I made up some excuse about leaving early to meet up my brother. I had to decency to walk her back to the bus. She texted me later saying “ had a lot a of fun with you, I’ll text you when I get home”. Never replied back to her. I’m not wasting my valuable time on disrespectful fat cunts.

2 upvotesGwoas2 years ago

“Be honest, are you not enjoying the time spent with me”

Oh God, what an arrogant thing to say. If she wasn't DTF at the end of the date, she played with you the whole time. Definately dodged a bullet.

5 upvotesAndgelyo2 years ago

She was/is DTF I’m pretty sure. She just texted me 5 min ago wearing her work outfit showing off her curves saying “Meeting ready 🤓”. Lmao as if all that shit will counter what she did. I’ve made up my mind already, I will not fuck her based on the disrespect she showed me. As a man, I won’t tolerate it, and I’m already in the works of talking to more women on Tinder. Our greatest power is the ability to walk away. Fuck that hoe!

4 upvotesGwoas2 years ago

Or you could also decide to fuck her without any kind of concern. "So, are we gonna fuck or what ? If not why are you still talking ?".
If she disrespected you, no reason not to treat her like a bitch and still get an easy lay out of it.

1 upvotesUnstoppable3162 years ago

Agreed. OP isn't fucking her bc she's fat, not because of disrespect.

1 upvoteslondolut2 years ago

what if no girl above 3/10 was openly into me? :/

17 upvotesmax_peenor2 years ago

In lieu of improving your SMV, you have a choice then, don't you? Turn down the lights and navigate a wet, warm hole that is going to be a whole like any other wet, warm hole. Or you can jerk off to barbie doll porn.

6 upvotesLavlamp2 years ago

Status, wealth, looks. Focus on your strengths but balance your weaknesses. Bring up that smv and stop giving a fuck what women think. They're just bitches. When you stop needing them they start needing you.

2 upvotesGettingShitTogether_2 years ago

Question: so how does one truly get to getting a girl to give you that fuck yes? I get the concept just not how to put it to practice.

13 upvotesLavlamp2 years ago

Be a man. Be the greatest fucking man you can be, fuck everything else. The rest will fall into place. I just got out of a LTR and hit monk mode in November. Lost ten pounds, got my abs back, invested in some new clothes and a good haircut, and said fuck dating. Two plates have literally fallen into my lap this month without even so much as a cold approach. Status, wealth, and physical looks are the three things they are after, play to your strengths but also bring up your weaknesses. When you stop believing you need women they start believing they need you.

2 upvotesShaney962 years ago

"When you stop believing you need women they start believing they need you."

Nicely said. I've recently gotten out of an LTR and am in the best shape of my life. My question: I still have trouble with sexual expression. I've only been with one girl so, although I want to continue working on myself, I find that I still feel my weakness is with girls. I live in a small town and work with only males, so it's not all the opportunistic.

Monk mode until back at Uni while only gaming at weekends..?

2 upvotesLavlamp2 years ago

How old are you? Are you comfortable spending long periods of time alone? Have hobbies you are passionate about? Do you have a general idea of what your mission is? Are there any big towns you could hit on the weekends? Playing the dumb out of towner is a great way to meet women. I use to drive over to our sister city every so often and crash at random girls places I met before hand online. Great reminder actually, I might look into starting doing it again.

Keep that positive self growth attitude, it will get you far in life. Study day game and keep active. Go to local meet ups, become active in your community, give back. Try meeting women while doing your hobbies, they will be much higher quality than bar sluts. The older I get, the less appealing LTRs are to me, and the more appealing spinning plates is.

I had to give up things like gaming completely, it dissasociates me from reality and I loose too much focus and mental clarity. Everyone is different though, this is just my personal weakness which I recognize and deal with.

2 upvotesShaney962 years ago

I'm 21 and am currently doing a year out of Uni working as a 'technical intern' (software developer basically) in a small town. The 'problem' is that I don't see myself doing this after I finish Uni, so I see some futility in my 9-5, which has caused me to feel like I've lost my sense of direction.

A passion would be clothing/fashion and guitar.

A couple of months ago I headed to my Uni town with just a rucksack and a sleeping bag, with the intention of sleeping on a bench if I didn't pull. Fortunately I met an old friend who let me stay on her couch. I didn't pull that night. I've been advised on TRP that doing that probably wasn't the smartest since, when I'm talking to girls, I'll probably sub-communicate neediness since it's like "I need to pull tonight or else I'm on a bench". This would be a more viable option if I was more comfortable with my sexuality and was more comfortable just going to clubs solo and hitting on girls, unfortunately even dancing with a random girl in a club intimidates me a lot.

The only actual thing on meetup.com is a meditation class once a week, which has like 4 or 5 middle-aged people who go per week, and that literally is it. I have however managed to cultivate something of a small group of friends/acquaintances by going out and slowly getting to know more and more of this friend group. I've also started BJJ which, although all male, I believe will produce a friend or two.

I haven't gamed in over a year. After work I head back to the gym to finish my workout, cycle home then cook, then either chill out for the evening (read TRP, YouTube, practice guitar) or will be playing 5-a-side or going to BJJ.

I am looking forward to getting back to Uni in September, but I would like to actually fuck a girl or just have opportunities with women beforehand. Being in a small town where everyone's out in groups, where there's not many students (all college or working in supermarkets etc.) makes things nice little challenge.

1 upvotesLavlamp2 years ago

Don't feel bad about exploring options, life's road isn't a paved highway, hell it isn't even a road most of the time. There are bumps and turns, the important thing is to correct yourself when you get too far off course. A year is nothing, I spent a decade doing all Sorts of jobs that have nothing to do with my career. They all helped shape me into who I am today. Good and bad, you learn lessons every day.

Are there any other towns or cities near by? Bjj is great, I met a lot of my closest friends and quite a few flings through a local muay thai/bjj gym. Great for the mind body and soul.

Opening groups can be easy if you open all the friends first. The girl I picked up Friday night was out with her class celebrating the end of their course. She was the only girl, so I got in with all her friends. By the end of the night one of them actually told me it was my job to go fuck her good, can't make this shit up.

1 upvotesBJJTallon2 years ago

I genuinely think BJJ can increase someone SMV quite a lot. You have a sense of brotherhood and bitches love men that can wrestlefuck someone 😂

2 upvotesyomo862 years ago

You will never get a straight 'fuck yes' until you fucked her.

Fucking is the only threshold girls have anymore these days. If the both of you haven't fucked each other she will be able to drop you in an instant. This is also why high n-counts are bad for women, they cannot measure their level of emotional investments anymore it's either fuck | no fuck. No first date, no first kiss, no holding hands. Just fuck | no fuck.

The 'fuck yes', beforehand, comes in disguise of unsolicited genuine contact or even small gifts. She is asking you about your day unsolicited? It's a fuck yes. She calls instead of texting, fuck yes. She makes moves so you can easily set up a date and plausible deniability for her? Fuck, yes. She says you don't get laid with her tonight? Fuck, yes.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

i think this is why i have not yet been promoted where i want to at work. i don't exude this enthusiasm. this ferocity

1 upvotesLavlamp2 years ago

It's all about the energy man! I've run a few social experiments for myself guaging how people treat me based on how I dress, act, and both. Whether you are dealing with men or women, dress your best and be happy to be doing whatever is in front of you. People will treat you different- you will get away with more and get further in life

1 upvotesbillsmashole2 years ago

I like this law and agree with it if by involved you mean ltr. Because sometimes I just want to have sex with a girl for a while and I'm not worried about how we feel about one another.

1 upvotesLavlamp2 years ago

These words come straight from the blog, so they are not my own. Take them as you will, there is no guaranteed right answer. If you are both benefiting from relationship and you are receiving equally or greater than her than sure. Just remember women won't let you keep an even playing field, someone is always benefitting more from a relationship be it LRT or FWB

2 upvotesbillsmashole2 years ago

I agree with that. I suppose the whole point is to not let women treat you like crap no matter what because there's a better one (or 3) out there.

1 upvotesLavlamp2 years ago

Hell ya. You are a man, the only creature on this planet of achieving greatness. A rock capable of withstanding even the greatest (emotional) ocean swells. You are the prize and you alone decide who gets to bask in the glory that is you.

1 upvotessuxxos2 years ago

The Law of “Fuck Yes or No” states that when you want to get involved with someone new, in whatever capacity, they must inspire you to say “Fuck Yes” in order for you to proceed with them.

Yeah, the problem is, it doesn't happen that often for the "Fuck Yes" to be mutual. I'd say this is one of the main problem with romantic relationships. And you may say "girls are hypergamous", but, to an extent, we all are. When you see a super hot girl, you're going to get hard, even if you are a 4/10 yourself. And of course you're going to be more attracted to her than to another 4/10. But it's unlikely for the super hot chick to be into you, no matter what you do. So unless you are really lucky and find someone both attractive and attracted to you, following this Law of Fuck Yes might make you an incel for life.

3 upvotesLavlamp2 years ago

There is no right or wrong answer here, but you are over thinking this. No matter how high your smv is, unless you are some famous movie star or billionaire the odds are always going to be stacked against you.

Just because someone isn't falling head over heals for you doesn't mean you can't have a good time with them, but I will never invest more into a relationship than the women. 35% tops. I will also never again begin a LTR with someone who isn't more into me than I am them. This is the key to the point, don't let some chick hold the power in your relationship. It will never last unless you are willing to walk away, she WILL get bored.

2 upvotesLavlamp2 years ago

Also, I can see how "in whatever capacity" can make this seem like an absolute, but really all it is saying is that if some chick is taking two hours to reply to your texts, isn't able to give diffinitive plans, hums and haws your questions, and isn't putting in ATLEAST as much as you are, then next that bitch.

0 upvotesitsjustsimon-2 years ago

That sounds great on paper but some guys SMV will never reach a point where they will get a “fuck yes” response from any girl or at least not from the one they would like to fuck.

Edit: spelling

4 upvotesLavlamp2 years ago

No one will ever get a fuck yes from everyone. Good thing there are billions of bitches on this planet though, right?

Edit: fuck this actually. If I can get a kid with fucking cerebral palsy laid and even married, there's no reason anyone does can't. Strive greatness, be a fucking man, stop caring what women think and quit putting them above or even on the same level as you. Bring up your smv by focusing on your looks, status and wealth. Play to your strengths but balance your weaknesses, we all have them. Do all this and not only will you get laid, but you won't care if you get laid, which will make you ironically get laid even more.

-1 upvotesjoikol2 years ago

What if no one ever says that to you?

3 upvotesMrCarepig2 years ago

Its a numbers game bro, chin up.

4 upvotesLavlamp2 years ago

^ Also, strive for greatness and bitches will come. Stick to the mission, that's what really matters.

Napoleon was 5'6 amd still slayed tail. He was also RP as fuck. From his memoirs:

'We treat women too well, and in this way have spoiled everything. We have done every wrong by raising them to our level. Truly the Oriental nations have more mind and sense than we in declaring the wife to be the actual property of the husband. In fact nature has made woman our slave. . . . Woman is given to man that she may bear children . . . consequently she is his property, just as a fruit tree is the property of the gardener. '

106 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

I have never actually had a guy banging on the door of a room I was in but I have been the guy in a girl’s bed as she declares to her boyfriend/ husband that she is “at her friend’s place”. I avoid girls in relationships, there are enough single girls out there yet some of these girls are total fucking liars. They tell you they are single then next thing you know they are on the phone to some dude lying their ass off. They lie to me, they lie to them. Utterly fucking shameless. They even roll their eyes while they are talking to the guy as if to say “I can’t believe he doesn’t trust me”. They live in a world of make believe.

28 upvotesGallobrax2 years ago

Just don't forget this key detail: They are of able to live in this make believe world because we have let them. Take back what is yours.

21 upvotesantariusz2 years ago

I’ve been on both sides of the cheating woman situation.

Because I’ve been the other dude so many times, it made me laugh when she tried to hide fucking another guy from me. And I didn’t need to get angry or go pound down some kind of door.

Similarly to telling guys not to even attempt a LtR until you’ve banged at least 10 girls. I would similarly recommend not LTR’ing anyone until you’ve got at LEAST 2-3 women in relationships to cheat WITH you.

They can ALL lie with a straight face.

1 upvotesTesrali2 years ago

And this is why your dick will probably not get aids. Well said friend.

89 upvotesRaikkonen7162 years ago

The most powerful thing I've learned here at the red pill is not to pursue women that aren't head over heels for you.

Definitely this.

It's been already some years i'm here on TRP, and I dated girls from much longer than that. However, i can't help but feel sad when i hear this kind of stories. Not that i don't know how women act. We all do, here we all know what they're attracted to, and how it's easy for them to forget about a guy. Fact is, i'm always surprised how many of these girls have absolutely no sense of honesty, or honor, or respect for their boyfriends. I don't pretend they change their nature, but I always wish they had at least the decency to tell their boyfriends "it's over", not to just deliberately lie.

I'm just venting now, it's no surprise that they behave this way. But i can't help feeling disappointed by them. I was teached that human decency comes before sexuality.

30 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Yea, I'm not even that angry. I was wondering if he was gonna come in swinging but really I just feel bad for the dude

16 upvotesSittingonabigbluebox2 years ago

You still hiding in the bathroom? Fucking gold.

61 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Nah he ended up making it inside, I was sitting on the couch. To be honest I wouldn't have been happy whether his blood or my blood ended up on the floor. I just deescalated the situation and said let's keep it cool. I kept it real with him and told him what happened and he thanked me for being honest and shook my hand. Really surprised he didn't come in guns blazing at me. Can't make this shit up boys.

I doubt any of us on this sub are the kind to just hide in the bathroom.

20 upvotessigma2722 years ago

he thanked me for being honest and shook my hand

I'm not even sure where to place this behavior on the alpha-beta spectrum

34 upvoteswheresMYsteakAt2 years ago

Boss move if he dumped her and ghosted afterwards.

7 upvotesnomorelulu2 years ago

I wouldn't call it a boss move solely because the girl probably didn't give a fuck and he still got played. But yeah that's probably his best option.

9 upvoteswashington_breadstix2 years ago

How he deals with the other guy shouldn't matter as much as how he dealt with the girl. If he "forgave" her and made her promise not to do it again, he's beta. In fact, if he even acknowledged her existence after that and insisted on having any kind of conversation with her at all, he's beta. There's no "spectrum."

0 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

they should have fucked on her couch.

15 upvotesSittingonabigbluebox2 years ago

Hell hath no fury like a bluepill scorned

1 upvotesGallobrax2 years ago

Yea I agree with you. I wouldn't be in the bathroom I'd be climbing out the window. You got real lucky there, God help any man I catch with any woman I'm dating. Sure she should have known better and perhaps it was an honest mistake but if I walk into my girls house and see you making yourself at home there's a good chance your getting thrown down a flight of stairs. To many emotions in one room, next time it happens get out and get our fast.

5 upvotesLavlamp2 years ago

Infedelity has been one of the leading causes of murder cases since the dawn of time. I'm always down for a good scrap anytime, but ya never know who has a gun or knife these days

6 upvotesiwasbornred2 years ago

Why would you be mad at the guy? He's just doing his thing. Blaming the other guy or attacking him is honestly immature. You should be like "good for you" and just next.

2 upvotesLuckylancer962 years ago

If the guy know there is a bf, he deserves bf's punch.

9 upvotesWestyWorld2 years ago

The greater the gap in the SMV between you and a woman, the more likely she is to behave herself, treat you well, and stay faithful.

11 upvotesLavlamp2 years ago

That's the rub. You want as hot as you can get, but the risk rises the higher you shoot. That's why you need the frame to be able to lock it down if LTRs are your thing. The irony is that the people best equipped to handle high smv women are the ones who are most likely to next them at the first red flag.

3 upvotesYour_Coke_Dealer2 years ago

The trick is to not give a shit if you lose her. It is just the way life goes; all glass will eventually break, all wood will rot or burn, and all hoes will not be loyal.

5 upvotesGozsayin2 years ago

Kinda still new to TRP, I have been slowly easing into frame and it's been a rollercoaster. I still remember a time when I thought women were God's gift to Earth and that women were naturally loyal and to a certain degree trustworthy. Lmao boy was I stupid and this story proves it.

2 upvotesLavlamp2 years ago

Those bitches hold onto their beta bucks for fear of losing a provider. Hypergamy in full effect. It is truly awful being the guy who's being strung along, all a friend can hope for is they wake the fuck up and learn from it. Turn the battle wound into lesson.

74 upvotesMrJanglesLovesBooty12 years ago

Thots gonna thot. Dick, attention and drama are like drugs to them.

-15 upvotesDmva1002 years ago

All women are full of cum. Some of its yours but most if it is not, unless you're Chad

1 upvotesyellowboy2122 years ago

You can’t let a girl know she has you

Even if you feel that way. Keep that shit to yourself

Fuck yes/no applies to everything not just women

Do I want this shirt? Fuck yes or I’m not buying it

11 upvotesItsgeneticsbruh2 years ago

Most of these lessons will get put to the back of the head until we all experience it. unfortunately we all think we are special snowflakes, until we learn the hard way.

1 upvotesyellowboy2122 years ago

Nigga i am a special snowflake

41 upvotesNinokun2 years ago

If u wanna date short or longterm always take Girls that are extremely into u, even if it means u have to go down on the beauty scale. U shouldnt introduce her to ur friends or Parents anyway.

The Reason being is simply because of Time Management, a Girl that loves u more than u are her is always gonna make room for u, always fucking u when u want. and is still available even when u didnt call her for 2 or 3 days.

2 upvotesbetween1-2min2 years ago

Damn that's a good way to put it. It's simply logical.

56 upvoteshodltaco2 years ago

Have been the guy she was cheating with literally 20 years ago which sent me on my Red Pill/MGTOW path. They’re all deceitful cunts. I’m in my 50’s guys and nothing has ever mother fucking changed.

Having said that...tip your waitress. She’s actually working for it.

37 upvotesSovereignSoul762 years ago

Other lesson: if you strongly suspect a girl is fooling around behind your back, just cut your losses and move on. Having a girl lie directly to your face, continuing to date her, and then later her telling you that you were right all along, is far worse.

29 upvotes360_no_scope_upvote2 years ago

You shouldn't pursue women to a point of detriment period. Everything is fluid, push and pull, undulating, other times sharp recesses. Oneitis is your enemy. Listen to your gut, your brain is telling you something is wrong for good reason, because it is.

18 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

The guy's mental space is all messed up. He should be happy to occasionally bang this slut while he goes about getting his career and money in line and meeting new other women who aren't such low quality. I mean he is winning here he's just thinking about it all wrong. It's like when a girl tells you all and the wonders of polyamory. Might as well high five her and tell her you'll let her know when to come Netflix and chill with you. Just make sure you wrap it up.

14 upvotesthrowlaca2 years ago

Those are my thoughts. The boyfriends is beta, yes. But he's banging a 10 anyway, she's way out of his league. I would downgrade her to plate and continue.

9 upvotesSkorchZang2 years ago

Good post man. I would go a little further and make it a universal rule: Never Chase After a Bitch.

Think of all the times she cried, threw up her hands and stormed off to the bathroom - full of expectation that you'll be running after her to apologize.

Or how women throw out an IOI here and there deliberately to make you focus in on her in a social setting, and then just as deliberately yank it away to enjoy your confused disorientation: "but I thought you liked me?"

Never chase a bitch, it's either a trap she laid deliberately or it just spooks them out when she realizes you're after her, that you want her. The female response to chasing is always running, even if she liked you to begin with.

1 upvotesHandsomeCub2 years ago

Never chase a bitch, it's either a trap she laid deliberately or it just spooks them out when she realizes you're after her, that you want her. The female response to chasing is always running, even if she liked you to begin with.

And if there is any hint of you having any sexual desire, they will run screaming "predator", with zero forgiveness.

31 upvotesSonic3242 years ago

Does it ever feel morally wrong to be the guy who's banging some thot in a relationship?

62 upvotesDocbear642 years ago

I feel sorry for the men and personally when a woman tells me up front she has a boyfriend or husband I have ( more recently) turned her down ... more because I don't want drama more than out of mutual respect for another man .

At the end of the day though I only feel sorry for the guys because they chose to commit to a slut . No matter what vows or oaths you've made to a woman she's not your property so if you choose one who likes to share her pussy (openly or secretly) than I hope he finds out and is able to place the blame where it needs to go ( on the woman he's picked) but most of these men can't even do that right.

If your girl likes to suck my dick then I don't get how many men rationalize either A, They pushed her / forced her to step out of the relationship or B That I am somehow some mega seducer who tainted the pure heart of their flawless vagina angel .

It's insane . the things men do and don't think about women Pre- TRP.

29 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

You wrote it more eloquently than I could have. If she's willing to cheat, the problem is their relationship not me.

8 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

You wrote it more eloquently than I could have. If she's willing to cheat, the problem is their relationship not me.

But all women are willing to cheat.

9 upvotesGallobrax2 years ago

Problem is not you at all, however I'd draw the line at the point you find out. You should never be attracted to an out and proud slut. Sure mistakes happen but if she's doing it consistently and openly she's a bad person. Get involved with a girl like that at your own peril.

1 upvotesSome_Random_Guy_11382 years ago

How do you know she didn't cheat on you when you were together?

5 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

We can't ever truly know can we!

12 upvotesCasaDeFranco2 years ago

I've slept with married women during business trips.

I used to have a rule against, I still kind of do but I break that rule occasionally. I don't feel great about it, it's usually a spontaneous decision but I have felt pangs of guilt when I see social media photos of the happily married couple.

I try to avoid investing in women which clearly demonstrate low loyalty (ie if I can fuck her whilst she's locked in, she'll do it again).

It's also unwise as some married men will vector their anger towards you, the man that ruined his perfect marriage; this is why I usually only break that rule whilst overseas.

12 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

99% of relationships are temporary. Who cares, the dude will get over it. Especially if they haven't been dating for that long. Plus you're doing the guy a favor by showing him what happens when you commit to some thot who's just gonna forget about you and fuck the next best thing that passes her.

9 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

If it’s not my cock it’ll be someone else’s. Maybe I’ll get gutstabbed someday. That day is not today.

5 upvotesMyUsrNameWasTaken2 years ago

If all men refused to bang a girl in a relationship then couldn't we curb their cheating behavior?

4 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Why do we want to stop it? Hypergamy is best for the species as a whole.

Naive on the individual level. How bout every other man except me stops banging attached gals. The demand won’t go away.

Do you see the problem here?

2 upvotessearcher6122 years ago

At this point in time, the way society is constructed, why do you think it is best for the species?

1 upvotesantariusz2 years ago

All attractive women are always attached. They always have beta orbiters, usually several that they might let get to second base even.

If she’s not attracted to the attached male, you won’t know about him. But if she isn’t attracted to you he’ll be labeled as her boyfriend.

5 upvotessoupladlelad2 years ago

He made no agreement to not cheat on this guy or not have sex with this girl. She has done a moral wrong but OP has not.

5 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Does it ever feel morally wrong to be the guy who's banging some thot in a relationship?

A little yes, but what are you going to do about it.

And from a moral perspective, your not in a relationship, so where's your moral imperative to honour someone's else's bargain? it's on her to say no not on you to not pursue.

If your a salesman selling phone contracts and someone says they already have a contract. Is it morally wrong to get them to switch?

21 upvotesthrowlaca2 years ago

Does it ever feel morally wrong to be the guy who's banging some thot in a relationship?

It's not morally wrong. But if you keep doing that, some day you will fuck with the wrong guy's girlfriend.

3 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Or you could do that the first time.

The problem is that you. The problem is

  • Cheating slut meets unstable idiot.

That's a recipe for disaster for even betas who may get mixed into it.

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

A little-discussed bit of female courage in such tight spots (when they have cheated male A, who they like more than B, with male B): they'll convince male A that they, really, really, didn't want to do it, and, somehow somehow, all the mischief was made by B, and B is to be held responsible for the screw she had with B.

Of course, male A usually likes to believe this true (we all like to believe true what makes us feel better), and then B is in danger, while the scheming, double-faced slut is absolved of any responsibility (and gets A back).

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Yes if I know the guy.

Look. I'm not asking every girl if she has a man. If she does it's on her to say.

If it ain't me it will be another guy. I'm not the one cheating.

1 upvotesYour_Coke_Dealer2 years ago

TRP is an amoral philosophy. You personally may keep your moral convictions if you want, but we as a subreddit don't treat cheating, being the side dude, etc. as 'wrong'.

TRP exists to put us as men on par with the innate sexual strategy practiced by women. They have naturally what we strive for here, although this does not make being female an objective advantage in life either. The female sexual strategy does not have morality bundled in with it; women cheat/lie/deceive unless the morality of a particular woman, by choice, overrides the innate sexual strategy. As such, you may choose to take morals over nature, or not. We don't judge.

2 upvotesmnemos_12 years ago


Give it a read.

18 upvotesGOODLORD1002 years ago

Poor guy :/. My ex gf cheated on me with 7 guys and I had no idea, but always a suspicion. And when I was suspicious about something, it turned out to be true. I’m making sure that never happens to me again. Whoever started this sub, thank you!

38 upvotesPhaedrusHunt2 years ago

I've been there. Most of us have. My ex was fucking her ex behind my back. Dumbass that I was, I stuck with her. But I long conned the shit out of her.

I managed to change things over to my frame through the course of the relationship.

I ended up fucking several women while still with her, gaslit the shit out of her, then allowed myself to get caught once I had what I wanted.

It broke her. But payback is a bitch. I told her, you cheated on BF B with BF A (she was dumb enough to tell me that shit), and on me with BF C. And you'll cheat on the next guy with me.

I can go fuck her literally any time I want, but I don't. Not that she's not a good piece of ass or hot, she's both. I just get more pleasure out of not fucking her and ignoring her than I would out of fucking her. Abundance. She's just another woman.

There are soooo many women out there. When they know you know that, and they know it's easier for you to get a hot piece of ass than for her to get good dick (especially in Soy Boy Central where I live), you have frame.

The amazing thing is, with the woman I'm with now, this is all unspoken and well understood.

20 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

There are soooo many women out there.

Yup and they're all the same. AWALT.

5 upvotesGallobrax2 years ago

You my friend understand the tremendous value of effective leverage. I wonder, when you say you broke her did she actually catch herself and reflect or is she now just a mess? Well played sir. Well played.

5 upvotesPhaedrusHunt2 years ago

I wonder, when you say you broke her did she actually catch herself and reflect or is she now just a mess?

She's a spoiled rich brat with a Beta Bucks dad that kisses the ass of her mom, her sister, and her. Until me she only dated men with lower SMV than she has.

Remember Nicholson's line in As Good as it Gets? He's a writer well known for his female characters being so realistic. When asked how he makes women so accurate, he says, "I think of a man, and I take away reason and accountability."

Self reflection is not in her DNA. She's just a mess now. In her mind this is 100% my fault. I'm fine with that.

4 upvotesthefisherman19612 years ago

Why would you knowingly stay in a relationship with a woman who is cheating? Do you want to get STDs? Are you a cuck?

2 upvotesPhaedrusHunt2 years ago

Nah, quite the opposite. Her ex was a total cuck. She wanted me to fuck her in front of him lmao and was going to peg him at some point. She was actually a dominatrix in a sense but very submissive with me.

In fairness to her it was really early on, and we weren't "exclusive" yet. BUT she had been lying saying she wasn't seeing anyone else. She shut that crap down and was not with anyone else the rest of our relationship. But I was playing a long game, and messed her up.

Granted, if that situation arose again I would ghost immediately and without giving her any idea that I knew what was going on.

So yeah, I played the fool a bit by listening to what she said instead if observing what she did. But I completely flipped the script and ended up as the one in control. Best course of action should have been to be, but I was in a weird situation, coming out of an 11 year marriage where I was dutiful all around, and was still getting my sea legs in this new dating environment. Hell man, I'd been in a monogamous relationship since I was 26. I needed some time to figure this shit out.

15 upvotesboo_radley_awesome2 years ago

My question is, what are you doing digging through the trash brah? An ex??

IMHO, anytime you go digging up the past (no matter how much you think you or someone else has changed) all you get is dirty.

But hey, do what you like. Thanks for the post

3 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

There are no hard rules to life, we're all just making it up as we go. I'm just living my life and focusing on keeping myself at the center of it since I've started reading TRP

1 upvotesSnowplow20172 years ago

Is it wrong to show up at a girls unannounced to screw her if you're seeing each other? Missed that bit.

4 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

If you're showing up unannounced because you think she's cheating on you, you have both insecurity issues and a relationship you shouldn't be in.

4 upvotesDiscipleOfTheRedWay2 years ago

The real lesson to be learned here is that for every degenerate woman there is an equally degenerate man willing to fuck her.

4 upvotesVictxrSenpai2 years ago

I think almost every guy fucking w/a female has been cheated on or had that feeling that something was up. But holy shit, to actually see a girl cheat on her bf with you, will totally make you realize that a good % of modern day females just cannot be trusted. It also made me realize that if you have some principals and morals, you'll feel like a terrible person for fucking w/ a relationship ESPECIALLY when the bf doesn't deserve it.

2 upvotesthefisherman19612 years ago

I did it before, wouldn’t do it again. I felt awful about it the whole time and kept thinking about what an awful person she is for doing this with me

But that was back in my blue pill days when I (laughably) believed that women were capable of loyalty

5 upvotesLow_Cost_Chimp_Meat2 years ago

Always get with women that pursue YOU...and keep dumping them if you want them to stick around for a while. THESE are the relationships where they do anal, threesomes and swallow for you.

1 upvotesmikeymop2 years ago

How do you eloquently dump them

2 upvotesLow_Cost_Chimp_Meat2 years ago

you can't...you have to be dramatic. Wait for a sign of potential cheating (texts, emails etc it will be there) and then blow up at her with the "I don't fucking share my women with other guys" speech. No contact...and then when she comes back crying.....dominate her with anal or facial etc to prove that she is "serious about commitment" to you.

2 upvotesmikeymop2 years ago

Oh okay, I thought you were talking about the good ones.

3 upvotesLow_Cost_Chimp_Meat2 years ago

the good ones? Be very careful when breaking up with them....they can become severely depressed, or worse, suicidal. It's best when they revert to AWALT and gradually find someone else, thus, leaving you.

8 upvotesTaco_Truck_Aficionad2 years ago

I'm sitting next to a girl in one of my classes who is continuously flirting and IOI-ing me. The kicker is she wears a huge wedding/engagement ring on her left ring finger. She is pretty hot for a mixed race girl, but that rock on her hand might as well be a neon yellow caution sign for me.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Pre marriage contract signing time is the time they give off the most IOIs to the most men, least for the very few cases they are seriously into the soon-to-be "hubbie".

10 upvotesCaesarsInferno2 years ago

Duly noted and I agree but unfortunately I don’t think I’ll ever get to experience a scenario in which both me and the girl are saying “fuck yes”. My standards are not even high, believe me. Which is why I refuse to lower them.

12 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

You are the master of your own life

8 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Women aren’t gonna hand you a business card that says “you sir are a stud and I want to be in your life”

You’re gonna say something to her off the cuff like hey just got free for drinks and she’ll say cool be there in a few. That’s fuck yes from her end by making you the priority.

-3 upvotesthrowlaca2 years ago

I've been in many situations, me saying "fuck yes" and she saying "fuck yes". Both at the same time? never. And I'm 40, it wont happen in my life, unfortunately.

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

I wonder why. Maybe you are not good at exhibiting a touch of sale-is-assumed cockiness and give them the bits of SIMPLE humour and witticism they want, all while convincing them that it's not your, but rather their chance not to miss.

It's way tougher to make their Fuck Yes extend in time than to fire it up at the startm flighty beings that they are.

3 upvotestastelikesunshine2 years ago

I couldn't dirty my dick in that bitch ... I'd have washed it off in the sink and walked out the front door and left him to hash that shit out with her ... She needed an event to back fire so bad she never did it again

3 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Why anyone would think they locked down a girl is beyond me. I was at church, yes church and the pastor said that if it ain't marriage God does that even see it. Best believe this girl I knew took that and ran with it.

And even in marriage, all you do is hand her power to do whatever since it's probably you who will lose of you split.

Any way you slice it. She's not yours. She never will be yours. Enjoy her while she's there, bit always be prepared for her to decide to fuck another. Tye only questions are

  • Will you find out

  • Will you accept it if you find out

  • Or will you try (and fail) to keep grasp on her

3 upvotesD_Hamm352 years ago

The real lesson here is that you’re gross for sleeping with someone who’s in a relationship.

1 upvotesMyBees2 years ago

Okay, that's not redpilled, you're knowingly a homewrecker. She's with someone and sleeping with you. You are apart of the problem just as much as she is.

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

There was no home -- we're early 20s. No kids. They were together for a few months. She never saw a future with him anyways. Better for him he found out now. I have no regrets.

4 upvotesRomerike2 years ago

That lesson took a long time for me to learn. No serious IOI, don't bother. Good post

5 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

you can't negotiate honesty and fidelity.

I red "you can't negotiate attraction" earlier last week which might be slightly more elegant. TRP is hard to swallow but it's helped me shift away from emotional and more into the logical headspace.

Good story.

2 upvotesdialecticwizard2 years ago

There is no such thing as honesty and fidelity. It is a crock of shite. The best you can do is negotiate a way through life that allows you to climb high. On your own. If you partner with anyone on the way, make sure they do not cause you to backslide and lose ground.

2 upvotesTheLoneProspector2 years ago

I've been on both ends of this. Well at least I thought I was on the bad end. Never trust a girl who does this to another guy. You are not special. She will do it to you. I could never trust her because of it. Shame, cause I had feelings for her (I guess that was a mistake as well).

6 upvotesTunedtoPerfection2 years ago

I would like to point out that it is quite obvious OP has not read Models as requested in the side bar. Now we could tell the newbie to "STFU, read the sidebar, and lift."

But I bring this point up to show that through the OP's own redpill lens he came to the exact same conclusion about women as a book we have been recommending since the inception of this sub.

If that doesn't show you the power and knowledge of the side bar, then we can't help you.

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

A lot of the content on this sub is anecdotal evidence that reinforces the concepts of the sidebar, not reinvents it. There are tags for a reason, if you don't want to read field reports and real stories and would rather read the philosophy, use the flair filters. No skin off my back.

3 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

I hope you wont complain if a bluepiller bashes your head in for stealing his one and only while you are screwing around with taken women. Blue pill rage is the worst.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Yup, I'm only messing with women that I can tell actually give a fuck about me. All the rest can blow in the wind.

1 upvotesRamazotti2 years ago

You can not negotiate passion. This should never be ignored.

1 upvotesboo_radley_awesome2 years ago

To some extent, yes. But hey, cheers to you mate. Not trying to tell you how to live your life. That would be very non-RP

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

you're lucky ya didn't get a shotgun to the dome, be careful where ya step man. no pussy is worth the price of life

1 upvotes-Tepes2 years ago

Two Things to take home, reasserting what I have said for years. If you are my kinda guy, Call me Old Testiment(No Bible Thumping Just a Reference) or have now found this sub that explains into my kinda thinking, which is called The Red Pill.

"Its Disrespectful TO ONESELF to enter any kind of relationship with most women specially knowing what you know, and knowing shes just a slut whos been fucked by some guys before you"

There is a reason shes your ex. That Guy banging on the door, could had been you my friend. Now look at it this way, you would want that guy banging on the door not to be that guy, find a way to eventually tell him, hey I fucked your chick or hey your chicks a whore whos been getting porked by me. Hey I'll tell you this, I have had friends whos LTR Ex's have shown up to get fucked by them while their current hubby cuck didn't know. I havent had any ex come back to me because I never enter anything with most women, but I have been with other mens girl friends, I remember a chick laying butt naked in my coupes back seat texting her bf. shit like this does happen, a month later she cheated on her new bf again. And wanted me to start anything with her... NOPE..not with some piece of shit..hehehe

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

I think this is only valid to an extent. Everyone is willing to cheat, it just depends on your value to her that dictates her willingness and the likelihood of it. That being said, different girls do have different propensities to engage in that behavior. The key takeaway is that it's up to you to have a high enough perceived smv to her that she wouldn't risk it.

1 upvotes-Tepes2 years ago

Well Yes and No, You cant always be the No1 guy on the planet, with the highest SMV, There will always be another guy with higher SMV than you, and even if you are the highest SMV to her currently that will change when the other guy if the other guy comes into the picture and if she has the background or ability to rationalize her branch swing, specially will show from her past if shes sluted it up, akin to this girl now. your ex. Then What can go wrong will likely go wrong. But any, thats just my take on it, I am not the type to advocate a Disney ending nor do I say there needs to be a compromise made as in you gotta justify that every ones willing to cheat so its alright, to me, keep it simple, shes a slut, dont invest, even if shes not, dont invest or invest carefully.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

The water will always be murky lol

1 upvotesetherealembryo2 years ago

Someone is touching the mirror. He fell in love with some bread.

1 upvotesGingerMinky2 years ago

I’m madly in love with my bf! What the OP says is totally true! Head over heels in love is what your woman should be for you, no other level!

1 upvotesthrowlaca2 years ago

not to pursue women that aren't head over heels for you.

This is also not good. It's saturday night. I'm just tired and want to be alone, playing videogames or whatever. And my GF is coming. I told her not to and she's coming anyway. She's heads over heels for me, and wont leave me alone.

Also, I'm not convinced that if a girl is heads over heals for you, she won't cheat. Maybe she wont cheat as easily.

14 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

That's your own fault for not having healthy boundaries...

1 upvotesLow_Cost_Chimp_Meat2 years ago

They always end up cheating, even these girls.....but these are the types that you can still fuck even after they a "boyfriend", IF you dump them for cheating.

0 upvotesairjones12 years ago

Isn't the problem thinking a girl is to good for you not necessarily there looks? If he had more confidence as a man he wouldn't be in this position. I don't think the solution is to after less attractive woman so you can feel like you deserve them. I

2 upvotesGallobrax2 years ago

I think this goes back to how you rank women. For me it's not just looks but their mental headspace as well. No looks, sex or anything makes up for bad hormones and mental instability. It's never worth it.

1 upvotesairjones12 years ago

Regardless of how you rank them you shouldn't be thinking anyone is better than you male or female. I don't care if it's Beyonce shes still just a person with flaws the same as anyone else. Bottomline is anyone who think they need to be with a less attractive woman so can feel in control or whatever ahs self esteem and insecurity issues. These characteristics show your not truly confident in yourself and other people pick up on that especially women. Its ok to think a woman is a ten but the problem is when you consider yourself a 6 or anything less than what she is. First thing I learned about game when I got started was that the whole shes to good for me thing was something I made up not something that was actually said. I Pulled so many girls I thought were out of my league when I first started gaming, because I came to realize once you learn to treat the most beautiful woman like your guy best friend and just stop caring about what they think. You showcase true confidence and a not giving a fuck demeanor because you really dont give a fuck.

1 upvotessx2eck2 years ago

Edit your faggy disclaimer out and proofread the post before you submit so it flows sectionally. Otherwise OK

10 upvotesPhaedrusHunt2 years ago

Wow, we got an English teacher here folks

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