Dad had "The talk" with me about marriage and kids.

Saintmyname · 2016-08-05T16:22:28+00:00

My father constantly told me to never get married. I listened.

HughWyatt · Fri Aug 5 12:17:56 2016 UTC

Well done OP. Only you should decide where you take your life. Others will try and influence you, you shouldn't let there attempts push or pull you toward anything you don't want.

HiGuysiamkewl · 2016-08-05T12:44:39+00:00

I told my mother the other day I would never even consider getting married in this day and age. When pressed for an explanation I gave her multiple reasons, the most prominent being the fact that the legal system loves to financially rape men. She then meets me with "Oh you'll change your mind when you fall in love" MFW I just had to stop trying to make her see logic, you would think your own mother would have your best interests at heart but, AWALT

jeezydasnowman · 2016-08-05T14:19:33+00:00

My father is/was a religious uber-beta. He believes in being christ-like to the point where he gives and gives and gives ... to us kids, to my mom, to the church, to beggars, etc. and never receives or stands up for himself. Always mowing the lawn, taking out the trash, doing the dishes, folding laundry, etc. yet never gets laid.

When I first started here I was angry like you. Why is my father so weak and snivelling? How does he not have any pride? Why is he such a pushover?

Then I think about how I and my siblings were raised and he and my mom's belief system. No questioning authority, give 10% minimum to the cause of christ, no sinful music/tv, no drinking or smoking or wearing immodest clothing, etc.

The matrix is a system, u/thebilboestbaggins, and most inside will DIE to protect it. Look around you at your dad and siblings and family and friends and don't be angry. Be indifferent. Stay on your path and let others stay on theirs. They would die before renouncing their beliefs.

It's why it's so important to not talk about Fight Club. Whenever someone comes to me for advice I just tell them to lift and learn to make friends. Leave the smp stuff and af/bb etc. here, it is not for them until they are ready and find it out ON THEIR OWN.

massivewang · 2016-08-05T12:31:19+00:00

The sad truth is that sometimes the people who should support us the most are often support and believe in us the least.

My mother is a narcissist and for a long time it broke my heart that she never believed in me, encouraged me, trusted me etc. Even though everything in my life showed that I was comptent/succesful/trustworthy she never had anything positive to say.

One of the most freeing moments in my life was realizing that she was a narcissist, and she would never change. She would always be the biggest source of hatred and negativity in my life. It would never get better or change. So I cut her out and didn't look back.

I'm not suggested you cut out your dad. But today is the day you realize that ONLY YOU have your best interest in mind, and ONLY YOU have the power to pursue things that are in your best interest.

You can figure out how to navigate the relationship with your pops, but at the end of the day you owe him nothing. You are not obligated to listen to him. You are a grown ass man and you can live life how you want. If your dad doesn't like it, too fucking bad. Embrace this as a man. Live your life for YOU.

It's a shitty life lesson, but you've learned it. Play the cards you've been dealt. Solidify your will to do what is best for you. It doesn't mean be an asshole, but again the only obligations you have are the ones you choose to have. You especially don't have an obligation to listen to people who are negative and want to drag you down. Fuck that shit.

Kalepsis · 2016-08-05T12:49:01+00:00

Good for you, dude. Now go to the gym.

RedBigMan · 2016-08-05T18:19:50+00:00

Anyone over 30 who's not married with no kids is a fucking loser in his eyes.

So you're 'a fucking loser' in his eyes. Good thing you don't see the world through his eyes and that your eyes are the only ones that matter.

You could always try explaining it to your dad in a logical way. "I'm not interested in marriage because i don't feel a need to risk half of everything I've earned on the 15% chance that my marriage won't end in divorce"

lilbro1984 · 2016-08-05T17:21:25+00:00

It's downright disgusting that most men consider success to be a fat, nagging wife, 2-3 obnoxious kids, a house that you can barely afford, a job you really don't care about but pays the bills, and a body that looks like the Pillsbury Doughboy.

Sir_Ganjas_VIII · 2016-08-05T21:44:46+00:00

I think there comes a point in all our lives when we realise that it's better for us if we just say ok and ignore it.

DontBeFredo · 2016-08-05T15:21:38+00:00

Perhaps one of my larger flaws is that I tend to empathize with parents more so than other figures in life, but I think this is still worth mentioning:

You're only given a very small group of people in life that are obligated to care about you...in most cases that is mom and dad. What most people don't realize, however, is that obligation of care, on their end, stems from self-interest rather than pure altruism. This is much more evident in moms than in it dads, but certainly not exclusive to females.

Humans are meant to self-preserve and achieve internal peace. Parents reach self-fulfillment by raising a child who is objectively doing well in the world, and meeting their standards. Meaning, most parents don't care about the independent fulfillment of a child, but rather the fulfillment they feel as a result of a successful child. And because children are so easily influenced at a young age, a majority of parental traits get passed on from father/mother to son/daughter. This reduces conflict. If a child's parents vote democrat, the child is likely to vote democrat. All of this messaging is reinforced on social media by those posts about how "mom was always right" or "my dad was always the best".

As we get older, we are supposed to side more and more on the side with our parents. Realizing, however, that your parents' unconditional care and love stems from more selfish reasons than what society tells us, results in some difficult conflict, such as your situation with your dad. You realize a better way of life that your dad simply can not fathom. He's thinking I care deeply about my son (even if for selfish reasons) and need to get him on the right path. In his mind, he is genuinely trying to do the right thing, making his behavior not malicious...rather, just misguided and inherently flawed.

It's very difficult to change the way of thinking in adults. Does this mean you should shut him out of that conversational part of your life? No, not immediately. To preserve the relationship with the man, simply because he is your father (which again, may be where my character flaw shows), I'd say "Dad, I understand you think getting married and having kids will fulfill me in life. Right now, I do not believe that to be true. Trust me, I am happy with this decision", and end it at that.

dandar4600 · 2016-08-05T14:18:50+00:00

You sure he doesn't think you're gay?

[deleted] · 2016-08-05T15:43:55+00:00

And then I realized "what would an alpha do in this situation?" The answer? "Go to the gym. And ignore him." Once i realized this, all the anger subsided.

I'm done with ultimatums. You speak to me like that, you're gone, I'm not going to get upset, i'm not going to disagree, i'm just going to say "okay" and ignore you.

This may not be a big deal to a lot of you but I'm in tears I'm so happy I realized this. Thanks to ya'll.

That's called frame, and it's a very powerful thing

RedPillJohnny · 2016-08-05T15:20:19+00:00

It's sad when you discover that your dad is just another crab in the barrel trying to keep you in there with him when you have 5 legs over the edge already. The good thing is that you realized it, did something about it, and have fortified yourself against the next "attack". This is also an extremely important lesson...I can't remember where I read it (here somewhere) but "act like your father is dead". Which is supposed to mean that you shouldn't act like you are trying to impress your father, who is (or should be) the moral compass and example of how to be a man. Men want to impress other men and your father is no different, in fact it is a more extreme example as you love him like family and as his son you want to earn his respect.

Continue to love him, swat away his girly-man shit tests and go forth and don't multiply until you want to...or never! But don't cut off contact...think of yourself as his secret red pill mentor because you just demonstrated that you are better than him regarding the topic of women and now you have to tolerate that bullshit and reflect it back to him through a red pill frame.

Jakei34 · 2016-08-05T16:36:43+00:00

My dad does the same thing. But more in a passive way. See, I can't go anywhere because I'm 14. But he always says something like "When you have a kid, you'll see." knowing damn well I don't plan on having any. Or talking about me finding the "right one."

I'm tired of telling him. 48 LOP taught me to win through actions. so instead of talking shit, Ima do it. And plan on moving away as well to do my own thing. You're not alone.

Rommel0502 · 2016-08-06T19:12:25+00:00

My father was alpha as shit, but was a commensurately shitty father. He's 83 now and trying to establish a relationship that never was. Im apprehensive but trying to make the best of it.

You choose to be red or blue, just as your dad did. Any combination of those choices shouldnt dictate your relationship with him though.

quansau1 · 2016-08-05T17:35:59+00:00

It's almost like some part of them is jelous of your youth and refusal to enter into a life of bondage, the only way they feel better about having to live their days in servitude is to drag others down with them. Half the time I've realized my father hasn't ever analyzed his opinions and is pre-set to "I am dad therefore advise" mode. Really just spewing forth cultural norms without cognition. Good job, be what you want.

Rodear · 2016-08-05T15:18:24+00:00

This is the red pill but the theme of a close member putting another member down is gender-less. A male relative about your age is in the process of transforming himself from a shy, plump young man, unconfident among women, to a good-looking young guy since hitting the gym. Now forget the red pill for a second, it's a classic story of how a person wants to improve and rightly so. His confidence is attracting women and he and his friends have come up with what appears to be a sound plan for a small business, you could see the confidence bubble inside him-he's worked out that he can actually win at this with hard work and application. What does his mother say at the end of this? 'Oh I don't think this will work.' A woman who knows NOTHING about the subject or business. I felt for him. I think anybody with a heart would. But families can be c**** to each other. Female to female, men to men. Anything that gets them away from their idea of you is threatening and I also think this is very important: if he endorses you, it would be like admitting his own path was the wrong one. Rise above it.

RiceballonRage · 2016-08-05T16:12:01+00:00

Thank you for this post. My dad left me when I was about 15 years old. Either way, over the years, the more I thought about it, the more I feel bad for my dad who loves me very much to stay in a shitty relationship with my mom for so many years just for me to grow old enough to leave. Thank to this post to remind me of my dad. It's time for me to go make up with my dad. If there is true love and true sacrifice, I believe relationship between father and son might comes to the closest one.

Stythe · 2016-08-05T18:55:57+00:00

Nice self-awareness of your improvement. I had a similar issue why my dad, who is similar to yours some time ago where I told him some truths and he got mad saying I was wrong and basically sitting on my opinion. He also gave me shit for not being thete for the family, which for a guy who I saw once every two weeks when I was a kid and barely ever after I turned 16 and who make do effort to reach out to me, I found that to be pretty ironic. We've since more or less made up but it's specifically because I decided to ignore the way he thinks and focus on myself. He's a good guy in his way, he means well but hes very set in his ways.

Blacklabellogics · 2016-08-05T22:43:53+00:00

The catch 22 of self-development is that everyone who knows you tend to like you just the way you are. If you suddenly start making positive changes in your life, then that messes with their sense of stability.

My dad is much like yours, life has no value without a wife and kids, and I accept that his position is congruent with what he wants from life. However, our fathers have a tendency to project the life that they want onto us, thinking that the life they chose is also the right life for us.

I suspect that many men in the red pill community never went through that "rebellion" phase as teenagers, when most people set clear boundaries between their parents and themselves.

[deleted] · 2016-08-06T00:00:17+00:00

It's your life, not his. Most baby boomer parents do not understand how feminism, single parenting, Sex and the City and the cock carousel have warped most women.

He holds marriage on a pedestal, many of our dads still do. They were lucky. Many women in their generation were submissive, beta and invested in their husbands.

Very few of those women exist anymore in our country. Tell him that if he cares about the well being of his potential future grand children, he should go out and find you a suitable wife who will do everything a woman should do for you, raise your children while you provide and never commit adultery. He likely won't find one because women aren't women anymore.

afkb39sdfb · 2016-08-06T00:25:06+00:00

People want others to validate their life decisions, by doing the same thing they did. People who do something different casts doubt on the "right" decision they believe they made, and they take it as a personal affront.

Semi-related addition:

If you are going to live a life that makes other people jealous, don't flaunt it, especially around blue pill types. They can be very passive-aggressively vindictive.

SkorchZang · 2016-08-06T03:33:35+00:00

Way I look at it, it's your dad's right to give you shit all the way. But it's up to you, if you want to take it or not. Once you're an adult, any shit your Father gives you is more or less an unconscious blessing. An adorable form of teasing, that makes you a better man even if you completely disagree with everything said, and forge your own way in the opposite direction.

Especially if it only comes at you over the phone and in small doses like that. Just gotta know how to take it with love, never get stressed out by it as though you have to perform or you'll be fired from the family.

Think of it that way, and his efforts take on a new light altogether, he's teaching you how to not sweat it and have that internal locus of control mastered to a T, so that you are your own man, even family expectations never ruffle you. This skill actually translates directly to holding frame, and hence being much better with women...

RED_PILL_TRUTH · 2016-08-06T06:03:11+00:00

The answer? "Go to the gym. And ignore him." Once i realized this, all the anger subsided. I'm done with ultimatums. You speak to me like that, you're gone, I'm not going to get upset, i'm not going to disagree, i'm just going to say "okay" and ignore you.

Lots of value in that for any situation that triggers an emotion. I was dealing with an issue on the opposite end of the spectrum last night. Instead of throwing a temper tantrum and banging around my fists and pounding on my chest- I just took the stoic route and went to the gym and wrecked chest. It was past midnight, and instead of rolling around in my bed miserable, I drove to the gym. Came back and slept like a baby. Takes a while to learn that, though.

Moolg86 · 2016-08-06T19:19:28+00:00

I'm not going to get upset, i'm not going to disagree, i'm just going to say "okay" and ignore you.

This. right fucking here. since I started reading TRP I've learned that anger/frustration and all other simililar emotions are a good source of fuel, why waste it on a tantrum, when I can blast my chest and tris tonight?

I feel like pre TRP i used to be a very angry, vindictive little passive agressive bitch ass spite fuck, when really the best thing to do is to keep adding value to yourself. don't get mad, get motivated.

Mjazz3 · 2016-08-08T02:17:16+00:00

What your going through is not unusual. Most people growing up have to break away from their parents authority at some point. Some do it and end up breaking off completely with their parents and other renegotiate the relationship in some way and end up retaining the connection. Your 25 years old now and under no obligation to do anything your father says you should. There really is no reason why anyone at this stage of your life should "drag you down".

RedPillSpookyGhost · 2016-08-05T15:22:28+00:00

wow now i'm a fucking personal girl diary

JackDallas · 2016-08-05T19:41:26+00:00

Red Pill Dad here:

A father should treat his son with respect and distance after the mid 20s.

More like a not too familiar friend.

tl;dr: Given em roots, and give em wings.

Fatboy214 · 2016-08-05T12:56:53+00:00

Bro i have to do that a lot when im dealing with women or just about anyone. I had to do it this morning. In the last 2 days i had to next 2 plates leaving me alone this weekend. Oh well. I'm not going to change my position because it would be easier or make other people happy with me.

SenorArchibald · 2016-08-05T13:52:39+00:00

Stimuli will come at you from every angle without your concent. It's your choice as to how you respond to stimuli.

deskgrunt88 · 2016-08-05T14:32:18+00:00

And then I realized "what would an alpha do in this situation?" The answer? "Go to the gym. And ignore

That's pretty applicable to a lot of things, I think.

[deleted] · 2016-08-05T17:30:51+00:00

At this point, it's just advice. Idk why it's something to get angry over. You don't have to take it, and if you treat his advice like what it is advice he'll get really angry but he can't do anything about it. actually, he's most likely jealous of you. you're single in your 20's and debt free with no obligations to a wife or kids.

Forcetobereckonedwit · 2016-08-05T19:39:45+00:00

You have to make yourself happy before anyone else. End of story.

[deleted] · 2016-08-05T20:25:10+00:00

I go on dates here and there but nothing that lasts. Yes sometimes it gets to me. But life goes on. I'm only 29 anyway. It's not like I'm old and will never meet anyone/get married/have kids. My dad didn't meet my mom until he was about my age. Brother in law and sister didn't meet until he was 31. Look at it this way. Being single allows you to do whatever you want ALL the time. It would probably help if I worked out more/lost my gut too.

Anyway, I figure if I'm 50 and single I can always move abroad somewhere, find a computer job or something and just go out and have fun all the time.

vagbutters · 2016-08-05T21:04:34+00:00

I know how it feels-- my parents are always pushing me for marriage even though that's not going to happen anytime soon (or ever). I'm happy with plating hb7-9's regularly every month or two-- I can't imagine settling for any woman in the States with the current environment. I didn't work hard my entire life just for some slut to ruin it when I have kids with her. Unless I find a unicorn whose past I've fully snooped out, I won't even consider the prospect of kids.

As usual, ignore and keep living your life well. Leave marriage to the losers who are willing to put a ring on a used up, post-wall slut.

Nymdox · 2016-08-05T22:57:37+00:00

It's his biological imperative at work. If you don't pass on your genes, then his gene die out too.

Not only that, but it retroactively makes all the resources he invested in raising you a waste.

From the POV of his DNA, he's right.

But that doesn't mean he's right for you. You are the ultimate judge of you.

polu85 · 2016-08-05T23:35:11+00:00

Chill out. He has his world view, it's not gonna change. Accept that that's who he is and you don't have to listen to him. Just smile and nod.

Remember not many people, probably nobody, will love you like your family. Cherish it. Even the annoying parts. Don't let them bring you down, but don't drive a wedge in a relationship when it's easier to just...smile and nod.

You did the right thing by moving away. He doesn't sound like a toxic person (addict, stealing from you, etc.) It's hard for people to accept they may have been wrong about life.

Don't argue. Don't get mad. Remember what he's done for you. Smile, say "thanks dad, but you raised me to be a man and I'll make my decisions and mistakes, I appreciate it". Let him feel helpful and wise if it makes him happy and costs you nothing but a couple minutes of your time. Then get back to doing you.

[deleted] · 2016-08-06T00:49:22+00:00

Is that message originating from your dad or your mom?

My Mom has never bothered me about marriage or grandkids but she has used my father, aunts, and family friends to "provide advice" over the years. Nothing malicious but I picked up on the talking points. She realized I started to selectively listen to her in my mid 20s and decided to utilize others who she feels may have more influence.

victor_knight · 2016-08-06T03:05:37+00:00

That's not your dad talking. It's his DNA talking. Oh, wait... were you under the impression that human beings are completely autonomous beings of pure unanchored consciousness in no way guided or influenced by biological imperatives or at least capable of "manually overriding" those biological imperatives through the sheer magical willpower of that unanchored consciousness?

[deleted] · 2016-08-06T03:32:46+00:00

I'm done with ultimatums. You speak to me like that, you're gone, I'm not going to get upset, i'm not going to disagree, i'm just going to say "okay" and ignore you.

That's the only thing you really can do. When you challenge your male superiors (especially your father) it's just going to result in conflict.

It's important to live life for yourself. These people might think they have your best interests at heart and that they're doing a good thing by giving you advice, but they don't live your life. You do.

My family does the same crap. I live 4 hours away and they're constantly asking me when I'm going to come home for a weekend to help them out with chores and whatnot. It's especially bad because I have no brothers and sisters, only relatives in my age who are still home are my cousins with drug problems who are always getting into trouble with police.

Like it's not my responsibility to take care of their property. Both my father and grandmother live in their own 2+ bedroom homes with decent size yards. They could easily just move into a fucking nice condo for cheaper and save themselves the headaches of yard work or just hire a damn landscaper.

I'm a full time student who works about 30 hours a week. I honestly do not have the time to go back and forth once every two weeks to take care of headaches 4 hours away from me. Got enough of my own and whenever I ask for help, I get the "you're on your own kid" talk.

SCROTAL-SACK · 2016-08-06T04:14:37+00:00

While I agree you should ignore bp advice and do your own thing, I do think its important to call out and ridicule people who try to shove this kind of advice down your throat. Make them feel stupid for saying anything. I've done it with family, friends, etc. Relationships/marriage is a fucking horrible decision, and they should be made to feel stupid for suggesting it. No point humoring them only for them to think "oh well, he didn't have what it takes". or something like that. Nothing will ever change and they'll continue believing they were right.

Ifuckinglovepron · 2016-08-06T04:38:11+00:00

Dude, normally I would say write him off, but its your dad and the guy genuinely seems to think he wants what is good for you. Just brush him off, but dont be a dick, he sounds like he does give a damn, he is simply misguided. The thing about family is you never realize how much they mean to you until they are gone. Just go kid gloves on him and be nice to your old man.

mercurymarinatedbeef · 2016-08-06T05:52:25+00:00

Honestly, I think your dad's going way over teh top on this becaue he secretly fears that you are a closet fag. After reading your OP, I gotta say, I can see where he's coming from.

CryptoManbeard · 2016-08-06T11:56:01+00:00

Sounds like insecurity on your part if someone's idea of your life makes you come off at the hinges. If you feel confident about your life goals you wouldn't really care what someone else thinks....amused mastery....

Great thing about TRP and stoicism: when I get angry now I know whatever happened is a source of insecurity for me and I need to figure out why I'm not confident enough to handle what was said without getting mad.

wanderer779 · 2016-08-06T17:06:04+00:00

Just tell him that the current view of physicists is that the whole universe will eventually be crushed into a single point. So it's all meaningless. Actually don't, even that is a waste of time. Just live your life however you want.

PantsonFire1234 · 2016-08-06T19:29:35+00:00

Beta's have a different view of the world. Recently I attended a birthday of an old friend. He's the biggest dopey beta you could think off. His low value girl has reverse cucked him, he's working 5 days a week paying for the apartment both of them live in. Constantly sending her lovey dovey hearts and 'i love yous' while she sits on her ass doing nothing. He's 5'5, Asian, Skinny and socially awkward at times.

He tried to hitch me up with a girl that night, claiming it 'was about time I'd get it on with a girl'. It was laughable, friends of mine erupted when they heard him say that. Our physical differences aside, this guy has no idea how I live my life. In his world a guy without a girlfriend is a failure at life, any other possible life style doesn't even register on his radar.

Skewed opinions should not trigger you at all. All I could do is laugh and enjoy my time at the party. And neither should you.

GreatWhiteCuck · 2016-08-07T07:28:53+00:00

You're lucky to be here and realise this

Betterthanuatlife · 2016-08-07T23:42:54+00:00

''You speak to me like that, you're gone, I'm not going to get upset, I'm not going to disagree, I'm just going to say ''okay'' and ignore you.'' Thanks I needed this. I just go massively fucked over by a ''friend'' and this entire day I've been boiling with hatred, shame, self loathing, digust, and pure rage. I'll simply move on. Get a new social circle, and never contact anyone of them again. Why I'm still hanging out with these losers is beyond me.

MovesTheGlassTable · 2016-08-05T22:17:06+00:00

TL;DR: Beta Dad gives beta guilt trip to validate his beta-ness. Alpha son holds frame and moves forward. Robs bank. Kills Giraffe. Starts cult. Eats sand. Hopes no one actually reads the article as I keep making shit up...

Rufferto_n_Groo · 2016-08-05T16:41:25+00:00

"And how its his fault I'm like this in the first place."

Some men teach their sons to be like them.

Some men teach their sons to learn their own path.

Some men simply exist to provide their sons an object lesson in what not to do.

Don't love him less, because he's helped make you the way you are.

Olenos · 2016-08-05T20:30:04+00:00

Oh boy the angst is strong in this one

[deleted] · 2016-08-05T22:05:41+00:00

I'm not going to get upset

You're already upset, as evidenced by your emotionally-charged rant. Beta.

Title	Dad had "The talk" with me about marriage and kids.
Author	Thebilboestbaggins
Upvotes	169
Comments	118
Date	August 5, 2016 12:08 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/4wa28s/dad_had_the_talk_with_me_about_marriage_and_kids/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/dad-had-the-talk-with-me-about-marriage-and-kids.61298 https://theredarchive.com/post/61298

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