Women are the most charitable creatures, and the most troublesome. He who shuns women passes up the trouble, but also the benefits. He who puts up with them gains the benefits, but also the trouble. As the saying goes, there's no honey without bees.

SmoothPrimal · 2020-04-15T11:33:34+00:00

im pretty sure MGTOW as a whole tries to answer this question, and by in large they have found that it is not (to them).

Wallstreet3 · 2020-04-15T11:36:36+00:00

[deleted]

Million-Suns · 2020-04-15T12:30:29+00:00

What do MGTOWS think about this? Is it not even worth the trouble?

It's easier to be charitable with money that is not yours. Women are the biggest spenders, while men are the main earners still. MGTOW obviously that the deal is off and analyze it to slavery, and the plantation image.

I think you can game both money and women. What do you think?

Mr. Landis: You can lose lots of money chasing women, but you will NEVER lose women chasing money.

CuriousIncel2 · 2020-04-15T11:46:00+00:00

It's not about not wanting to put up with women, it's the risk of losing everything I have worked for. I don't take 50/50 chance in a videogame much less real life.

akihonj · 2020-04-15T14:32:05+00:00

Well then I'm a mgtow so can give you my perspective.

Machiavelli was in part right, I can't hold myself when I got the floor, I don't have anybody who makes me feel like a god that I get up every day and work hard to provide for.

On the other hand knowing that is all I am to a woman now means that he was also wrong, I don't have those things but also don't need them to be of value to myself, I get up and go to work for me, I alone benefit from my work, I take the good days with the bad knowing that for every good day there will be a dab day, that's how things are.

I do things that I want and like to do, because I want to do them, I follow my dreams and my passions and things that I love and make me happy.

Because I know that for any woman I am a walking ATM, she will expect me to provide for her but she won't provide for me, she will say that being vulnerable is her wish but walk the moment she sees that I am or can be that thing, not male and certainly not human any longer.

That she can absolve herself of any tradition or responsibility but I have to stick with them because they are the expectations she can have for me, while I'm allowed to have no expectations of her. That I am wrong for expecting anything of her and wrong for rejecting any expectations she may have of me.

Because of these things and more, I can ignore Machiavelli because he lived in a time when gender roles were very much the norm, they aren't now. Now I don't have to care and provide for a woman, she is strong and independent remember, do she can care and provide for herself, is that selfish of me, maybe but it's also the society that women have created for themselves, we are all equal remember, being equal means that I'm no longer required to make myself a sacrifice to any woman, being equal had taught me that I'm wrong if I do, sexist, wrong if I don't, mysoginystic. So I won't because when I don't then it becomes irrelevant because it's about my happiness, my comfort and wealth.

So I sacrifice the benefits but also the drama, I live very well, choose my friends very carefully and can say I'm at peace and happy.

I have nobody to pick me up when I fall down, I have nobody to leave when I fall either, I have nobody to thank when I hit the top and owe nobody for getting there either.

My life is far more solid and far more settled than many of those men who are in a relationship trying to accept that they don't and will never come first to their so. I don't have that, I have standards and if I'm not first I'm last and I won't be last. I would put her first but know that won't be returned so why bother, why when all of my experience had taught me that's it's useless to expect it. Why bother with a repeated pattern when the outcome is the same regardless of the input, isn't that the very definition of insanity.

Why be that insane, I leave a clean house in the morning and come to a clean house, I eat what I want, my he looks how I want it to, my car is the one I want to drive. My clothes are expensive because I can afford it. I can go out to eat when I want or choose not to as I decide. I can see friends when I choose or stay home as I decide.

Of course nobody is waiting for me to get home, and body is there expecting an explanation either. Nobody is there to comfort me when it gets rough but nobody is there to say they can't because it's too much for them, or they can't because they are leaving.

Nobody is there to share in my life and wealth but nobody is there to take as much as they can from me either.

It is what it is, I'm as happy as I can be, of course I could be happier with somebody but then just as quickly I could loose it all in some frivolous court case because she saw an easy way to get a few million, I value myself over a woman any given day of the week so why want one in my life.

What can she provide for me then that I can't get from friends or rent or buy.

TomahawkSuppository · 2020-04-15T13:01:12+00:00

As a MGTOW, no relationships are never worth the loss of personal freedom or independence.

usa_foot_print · 2020-04-15T11:45:08+00:00

Women are the most charitable creatures

They really are not.

HighAfBullfrog · 2020-04-15T11:59:14+00:00

Back in Machiavelli's day, women weren't often fat and couldn't vote themselves quota hire and men's money, so I can see his point.

2020-04-15T11:41:16+00:00

Well the one woman would let me use her vagina once a week if I was good.

And I say use her vagina because she would just lay there. Complete starfish.

901735 · 2020-04-15T11:47:58+00:00

What do MGTOWS think about this? Is it not even worth the trouble?

Think about?

No marriage.
No cohabitation.
The rest is up to the individual.

Be so kind, love, and point out to me where you can read "no relationships", please. I'm likely retarded or blind (possibly both), because I cannot see it.

Ballface8020 · 2020-04-15T12:31:36+00:00

"Gaming" women brings up moral questions, even if you can be effective with it.

It is true that a non Chad with mediocre status can successfully bed decent looking women, provide he isn't too old, too short or too neuro-atypical. However, there are some problems:

It isn't right to manipulate women into casual sex
Why even bother? Literally sitting in your room and staring at the wall is a better use of your time then going out to "game" women to sleep with.
The same women you are acting like a dancing monkey to impress on the hope that they will sleep with you are throwing themselves at Chad*. Everything you get from you cringe mating dance, Chad gets 10x more by merely existing

*not all women are hypergamous for Chad but the ones who you are able to successfully game into casual sex mostly will be

DangZagnut · 2020-04-15T12:09:34+00:00

I'm all about the money. Take the money, leave he ~~cannoli~~ thot.

SartreK · 2020-04-15T14:37:12+00:00

I can't speak for MGTOWs as my views are very different from theirs but:

Trump once said “Money was never a big motivation for me, except as a way to keep score. The real excitement is playing the game.”

Funny to see Trump of all people as an example, because he's precisely the kind of guy who isn't a self-made millionaire but owes his wealth mostly to an enormous inherited head-start courtesy of his daddy (not just the obscenely big monetary inheritance but also the connections).

So if we translate that example to the dating market, it would exactly make the case of what many MGTOWs say, e.g. (and may they correct me if I misunderstand): if you inherited giga-chad genes, "playing the game" is easy.

Apart from that, personally, I think that "keeping score" and "playing the game" are a totally shitty motivation (both in business and in relationships/sex). And at least for business, it's the kind of decadent mentality that would typically be the luxury of a person who didn't really create the value they play with but rather inherited big to begin with.

Conversely, not playing games but building up something great is a motivation that I respect (both in business and in relationships).

2020-04-15T14:52:48+00:00

I love Machiavelli, the "real" deal, not the misunderstood one..

I have a little issue with quoting Machiavelli within this context: he's dead, and he's been dead for >500 years. The dynamics between the sexes have changed so much that whatever was true in the 1500's is no longer valid today.

Blue Pill indoctrination leads men to believe that life is happiness revolve around women/a_woman and relationships/marriage.

My philosophy is that a healthy life revolves around accomplishments and women/sex is an incidental secondary byproduct of living such a life.

Personally I enjoy business-related accomplishments the most, but also non-business like lifting heavy, being healthy, and playing guitar. I have sex on a regular basis, so that aspect of Maslow's hierarchy of needs is addressed as well.

https://i.imgur.com/SNjCGGl.jpg

I strongly suggest everyone to take a look at Maslow, study it and reflect on hot it dovetails our own philosophy, worldviews and life. Maslow's HON is "only" 77 years old.

DeuxPistolets · 2020-04-15T11:33:42+00:00

I think you can game both money and women. What do you think?

Game women how?

You mentioned a Donald Trump quote and applied it in the context of a PUA perspective.

If you’re asking if you can “play the game” by focusing on making money and women for non-committal relationships and sex, the answer would be yes. If that’s what you want. However, both are easier said than done. Donal Trump is an outlier in terms of wealth. As you get older, playing the field with women gets old too. There are also fewer women to seek out. I guess it all comes down to whatever you find to be the most fulfilling in life.

bonusfruit · 2020-04-15T17:16:30+00:00

The trouble to charity ratio has become such that it's no longer worth it

MuleFool42 · 2020-04-15T19:30:44+00:00

As a MGTOW I would say that the only hard and fast rules are to never marry or live with women. Never agree to adopt and/or take care of another man's kids.

But dating is fine. So you get most of the benefits with little of the trouble. Just don't get entangled, legally, with a woman.

But it's a misconception that MGTOW don't like and don't want to date women. Some don't, sure. But everyone needs a connection. MGTOW aren't robots, we just live life on our own terms and don't put ourselves in legal jeopardy.

2020-04-15T11:35:05+00:00

I'm not MGTOW or TRP for that matter, though I am red pilled. This game...What's the point? I really don't see it.

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Ordinate1 · 2020-04-15T14:32:30+00:00

My problem is that I only ever got the trouble.

wtknight · 2020-04-15T17:39:42+00:00

I think it is the same with women. “Women was never a big motivation for me, except as a way to keep score. The real excitement is playing the game.”

Men who consider women commodities and who treat them like that have emotional problems.

LeJacquelope · 2020-04-15T19:28:59+00:00

How many non-uniformed women ever put their lives on the line to rescue a male stranger from imminent death in a disaster situation? Very, very few.

Tell us again how charitable they are, LOL. Women are charitable toward men they know or love. The rest can go fuck themselves. Men aren't so restrictive with their charity. Non-uniformed randos will put their lives on the line for ugly old fat women that they never in a million years would want to fuck.

But this isn't entirely the fault of women. Joan of Arc went out and put her life on the line for her King and she was burned alive for it. Mulan is based on a Chinese story called the Ballad of Mulan, which is likely a real story. Recently Middle Eastern women flew in fighter planes to fight ISIS and a Fox News host called them "Boobs on the ground." There is also the old joke "your momma wears army boots." Female superhero movies never succeeded until recently, and even then look at all the pissing and moaning by manbabies about Captain Marvel and Fury Road.

Men have contributed to shaming women and even killed women for being heroic. Now we just insult them or bitch and moan and whine about their heroic portrayal in movies. This has a strong disencentive effect against women putting their ass on the line for strangers. Men who do this shit need to be called out by other men. Mobs of other men. Women aren't lesser cuts of meat, their degenerate behavior is shaped in part by male degenerate behavior. Stop rewarding cowardly women and start encouraging brave women and things will even out.

We can't go on about women not being charitable toward us and then give them shit when they are. Time to choose.

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