Does it get lonely at the top?

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June 1, 2020

Entrepreneurs in Cars on YT tattooed a thought into my brain that “Girls wait at the finish line and fuck the winners” and it got me thinking - For those of you who are older or are subjectively successful, would you say your life is relatively normal/isolated or has improve drastically? (Doesn’t solely have to be sex life either, but life in general)

At 24, I stay focused on my purpose by keeping my head down and blinders up. I lift and invest in myself by giving up consumerism for long term gain, spin plates when time permits and keep my circle pretty small. Moreover, I abstain from drugs and alcohol.

To those around me they see it as a pretty mundane life but I visualize the bigger picture. For those of you who have reached a level of self-actualization, do you feel a sense of enlightenment?

Post Information
Title Does it get lonely at the top?
Author gGrillz
Upvotes 152
Comments 122
Date 01 June 2020 02:04 PM UTC (10 months ago)
Subreddit askTRP
Original Link
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[–][deleted]  (17 children) | Copy


[–][deleted]  (4 children) | Copy


[–]AmIDyslexicStoner4197 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy

Can you please re write the original comment or whatever you remember. The user deleted it

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy


[–]420BJsGamble0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Send to me also

[–]notsosureabt0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Can i have a piece of said comment too pls?

[–]BriefcaseHead215 points16 points  (3 children) | Copy

Well said. The height of the fun that goes on round here is getting fucked up and fucking a drunk/drugged out girl. I've already done that for years. It's fun but its like the 'alpha version of watching netflix'. kinda entertaining but you know your life is going downhill everyday.

[–]OttoVonBismark710 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

it's not that fun though once it's easy

[–]Tongue370 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

By my 30s, the idea of one night stands with women I just met was becoming tedious. Many red pill guys advise men to just keep spinning plates forever it seems. I cannot fucking imagine still putting in the effort of spinning plates in my late 30s and 40s. I guess I may have a different to mindset but getting laid is not the end all, be all of human existence.

I'm curious how many plates guys like Rich Cooper and Corey Wayne are spinning.

[–]L0nerizm4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Isn’t there a happy medium? Where you aren’t just cutting off every other person who you come in contact wjth and able to have fun while also being successful and getting to the top? I feel as though it doesn’t have to be these two extremes, but to each their own I guess.

[–]gGrillz[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I completely agree with you. I think since being exposed to TRP, some really indulge themselves into the life following these set of rules when to me, its a toolset that should allow you to be aware. You recognize the world for what it is and its teaching you ways to make the world in your favour. At least thats what I’m getting out of it while trying to internalize TRP.

[–]gGrillz[S] 7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

Thanks for the reply. Your point on the highest quality of freedom is something I think a lot of guys my age should strive for but like you said, there are many distractions and the indoctrination of the “white picket fence” lifestyle and I’m certainly guilty of being tempted by it.

I suppose discerning my distractions and maintaining course is the best option to yield to best results.

[–]treehauz1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Bu baslikta turkleri gormek baya hosuma gidiyo. Bu konuda(TRP) turkce kaynak var mi arkadaslarimi bilgilendirebilecegim. Biliyor musun? Illa bizim mi yapmamiz lazim? :) Turkiyedeki sistem ve kultur tamamen beta. Cok yol katetmesi gerekicek diger konularda oldugu gibi....

[–]Tuno931 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Diğer Türkler?

[–]curvedbymykind0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy


[–]thesoloronin6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Dude's asking in Turkish. Here's a quick GT version of what he asked:

I like to see the Turks in this title. I can inform my friends if there is a Turkish resource in this regard (TRP). Do you know? Do we have to do it? :) Turkey in the system and culture is completely in beta. As with other subjects that will need to go a long way ...

[–]shouldergirdle107 points108 points  (53 children) | Copy

Mid 50s selfmade multimillionaire International business man. Lifting for over a decade, 16% BF.

Is Your Life Relatively normal: Yes. You don't become successful overnight. It takes decades and when it happens, you don't feel successful. During the time when you are working your ass off trying to make it, your life is normal. I take out the garbage, cook half of my own meals. Wife bitches at me, kids disrespect me. All normal day to day life stuff.

Do you feel isolated: I own and run a big company. I deal with big company problems, lots of risk, lots of high level financial stuff. There are not many people like me around that I can share with. I have joined a Mastermind group of company CEOs that meets 6 times a year. Otherwise I have no one to talk with about business problems. I like to enjoy a bit of the good life, luxury hotels, fine dinning, exotic vacations. My current friend group can't afford that lifestyle, so that's isolating. It's hard to find someone that can afford to hang with me. So when i want to do the luxury lifestyle stuff, I'm paying.

Has Life Improved Drastically: I would say life is the same for me and my wife as it is for our friends in the same stage of life. House paid off, financially secure, we worry about our kids, our aging parents and our health. We have more money but it doesn't really come into play day to day. For example, I could buy a mansion and a Ferrari, but I would rather downsize my house and I can't deal with the pain in the ass of maintaining another car. Becoming successful really means taking on a lot of responsibility and dealing with a lot of risk. It's a high price to pay but I think it is better than being poor.

Do you feel a Sense of Enlightenment: No. I grind it out every day just like anyone else. To be successful you have to grow everyday. You can't sit still and smell the roses. No sense of enlightenment from that. However, being an older guy I am able to look around and see how the world works. So I guess I have that kind of enlightenment.

[–]absolutelynp25 points26 points  (4 children) | Copy

I think or I hope the OP also meant successful in more personal terms. I have long forgotten the idea of chasing money. A friend of mine, makeing around 10k per month once looked at me completely serious and said dude nothing changed, car is faster, house is bigger but nothing changed. I felt that. Ok since a few years I am chasing money again but with the fixed purpose to "buy" my freedom from western society bullcrap that makes want to kill myself daily.

[–]gGrillz[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Consumerism is always tempting. I hope that the feeling will eventually fizzle out and that I will spend my money on experiences that improve myself

[–]btrpb4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

As an older guy, yes, you are in the right path with consumerism. I've been through it all before I realised that buying something just gives you a short term dopamine hit. The same hit you get going to the gym. Except one improves you and the other drains your resources.

[–]gGrillz[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is factual. For a guy like me to recognize this early on, its rare but also a blessing.

[–]Tongue370 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Chasing money is ultimately futile and empty. The more money you make, the more you spend ..most people that aim to make tons of money do it to impress others or get laid

[–]gGrillz[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy

Refreshing to see some contrast in terms of the age spectrum. You’ve clearly seen growth in all areas in life and even took part in what seems to be so controversial these days - marriage. TRP to me is more than just slaying women like a lot of posts I see but to reach the best version of yourself, and being unplugged from the matrix and seeing the world for what it really is provides me a different perspective on what success means to me. With all things considered like financial freedom, self improvement I think the end game varies depending on who you’re talking to. In your case, you’re obviously doing well for yourself and your family but more importantly, you’re not content/complacent because like you said you are grinding it out everyday. You’re always reaching for a level of excellence, competence and mastery and that really resonated with me. Thanks!

[–]WolfofAllStreetz5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Similar boat, younger less money but this is good advice. I have to grind everyday because my career in sales there is no damn off switch.

[–][deleted]  (15 children) | Copy


[–]shouldergirdle38 points39 points  (14 children) | Copy

Most Useful TRP Teaching: A man must be selfish and live for himself.

Tips for Your 20s: 1) Don't get married, 2) Don't get anyone pregnant, 3) Spend your 20s finding, learning and mastering your trade. This will set you up for success for the rest of your life. If you skip this stage and spend your 20s drifting, the rest of your life will be miserable.

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Rule #1 is applicable for just about everyone, public figures notwithstanding.

[–]for_unpopular_things2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Appreciate hearing from the guys who have been there and done that, so thanks.

[–]BriefcaseHead22 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

Please could you share more knowledge on tip 3? I feel like most guys in their 20s who actually want to be something better are experimenting, trying new things and developing skills. It feels quite difficult to get into the flow of this in a distracted world but I am very proud to say I have been following this tip with a great, consistent work effort for a couple of months. I feel like I am going in the right direction but also have so much to learn and think about.

Other than just doing the actual activity for a long and consistent amount of time, what would you say is 'mastering' your trade?

[–]shouldergirdle17 points18 points  (3 children) | Copy

1) It is normal that you try new things and it's difficult to get into the flow. As you try things you are adding to the toolkit. Keep trying, keep learning and failing. It's part of the process and you have to get the momentum going. It's not easy but you can't skip this stage in life. You have no responsibilities or commitments in your 20s so this is when you do it. It's harder to do in your 30s.

2) Mastering your trade first entails finding something, anything. Then set out to be the best in the world at it. You may not become the best and you may not even end up doing that thing. But the process of trying is what is important. When I was early in my career, I was first in the office and last to leave, for a decade. I volunteered for special projects, I went on every training course that was offered, I read everything in the library on the topic. I would read all the books in the bibliography. Scrape and hustle. There is a shortage of ambitious, capable people. Do this and you will get noticed. Once you are noticed, you make your move. Ask for a promotion, take a job at a competitor, start your own business.

[–]gGrillz[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Man its so great to hear you offering tips to guys like us. God bless.

[–]BriefcaseHead21 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you for your advice. For the first time in a very long time I actually feel like I am doing everything right. I found the thing to bust my ass on. Only two weeks in and I'm getting so many comments from people about my consistency and dedication. My happiness is the highest its been for 2 years because I'm finally spending all my time developing the major thing I actually want to work on. Theres no cognitive dissonance wishing I was doing anything else. I'm only seeing the smallest amount of success in it and that makes me so happy. I'm not even seeing money from it (yet) so when I eventually do get a paycheque, however small, I genuinely feel like that would be so fulfilling.

[–]EnemyAsmodeus0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That is so true.

As I mastered my own skills, I look around and often realize that others are not as capable of me, at first I got a little annoyed by it. But then I realized that a lot of people are just not capable and/or not 100% at all times and learned to kinda accept it a bit. Occasionally, I help them out and they "owe me" etc. though I try to avoid making that a habit. I don't do anything I don't want to unless it comes from the top bosses.

I did exactly #2, to a T. Got the promotion. But still thinking of making my own company because I always think to myself "these guys make loads of money but mainly because they are the boss, while I do a significant portion of the work." Of course, what they do is very important as well, so no disrespect to people in management. But there's been years that millions are brought into the company, shared by many executives as a fraction. But you know what, most of these executives don't spend 10 minutes talking to any of the worker bees.

Just trying to think through what moves "within the next decade" I guess.

I haven't yet joined a competitor or made my own because well, they gave me everything I asked so far and going on your own can be pretty risky.

[–]semicoolon0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks, man. Really needed that.

[–]CasaDeFranco0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Any tips for the 30s?

[–]tidder88880 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Thank you. Any tips for someone in their early 30s and single?

[–]shouldergirdle13 points14 points  (2 children) | Copy

All your friends are getting married and now you have fewer dudes to hang out with on the weekends. The girls your age are desperate for commitment. Don't do it, man. Don't fucking get married!

Secondly, rent don't buy. It keeps you mobile and increases your opportunities. Further to that point, don't get a dog. You are free to travel without pets.

[–]gGrillz[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Its quite the nomadic lifestyle but I can see its perks!

[–]Fuk_Boonyalls1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I like you. 100% correct on all points.

[–]Wants permission to daternsbrum8 points9 points  (25 children) | Copy

Sounds boring as fuck.

[–]shouldergirdle14 points15 points  (9 children) | Copy

Agreed. I would much preferred to spend my career playing in the NBA. But alas, too slow, can't jump, no handle, can't get my jump shot off against the big men.

[–]Wants permission to daternsbrum8 points9 points  (8 children) | Copy

Oh well, for me its sounds like a boring life... Go out, grind, go back to the family..repeat till death lol

[–]rockyp325 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy

Yeah but boring is strong the most successful people did the boring shit every day

[–]Wants permission to daternsbrum12 points13 points  (2 children) | Copy

Speak for yourself. Thats a limiting belief.

[–]rockyp321 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Not saying you can’t have fun. But those that strive for maximum pleasure become depressed because pleasure doesn’t equal happiness. Look at Dan bilzerian he’s depressed a lot even though he has billlions and can do whatever

[–]curvedbymykind0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Who said he’s depressed? He seems quite enlightened, have you seen any of his interviews? He always talks about how money doesn’t bring happiness

[–]Beegoop4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Ah yes, the trivialization of the activities of a multimillionaire who doesn't have to work another day of his life. Surely it's that simple; what a boring life.

Hot takes, gotta love em.

[–]Tongue37-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

How many multi millionaires never have to work another day in their life?! Most have such high spending standards that they will never be able to retire comfortably.

[–]turbospeedsc1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

keep same life, throw in a couple high end sugar baby's, a few getaway nigths a month.

With money you can do it, without it, well pornhub it is.

[–]inittowinit7770 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You sound immature as fuck

[–]CasaDeFranco5 points6 points  (13 children) | Copy

Running a company is actually pretty exciting. Especially if it's international, wake up, get briefed from the overseas team, action the priorities, delegate. Travel to new places, attend business dinners, meet other interesting folks who help shape the world.

Sure, a lot of it is grinding, working weekends, missing dinner with the family to wrap up a call, but if you work on balance, you can enjoy taking Monday to golf because you know you have a team working to cover you.

[–]throaway4000s1 point2 points  (12 children) | Copy

do you speak from personal; experience?

[–]CasaDeFranco2 points3 points  (11 children) | Copy

Yeah, I've posted about my work, my first startup exited, I was listed on Forbes 30 Under 30. I've connected with a few guys from here IRL on business trips to new cities where I know no one.

[–]izzyinjurious2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

Ahhh I remember that post. It was one of my favorites because of the tips you had in there and the motivation to keep pushing.

Can I message you and ask you some questions?

Glad you’re still around.

[–]CasaDeFranco2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

Thanks, this platform has been great to keep me connected to the ground and not distracted.

[–]izzyinjurious2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Do you have a post on what your day to day looked like when you were on the come up and what you noticed that really worked? The 30 by 30 post had good bits on where to focus. Just never a typical CasaDeFranco hustle day looked liked before the cash.

[–]CasaDeFranco4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Day to day, I could make a post on this entirely and may recycle this into a post now that it's quite long. Day to day, wake up at 7, do urgent US emails and meetings. Make breakfast / first calls at the same time. Morning team meeting in the local country, assign work. Then I work until noon. Meeting / eat lunch (reheat last night's food). Then get a team update status. Then provide feedback and assign more work. Afternoon work to 7, cook dinner, have calls with European office whilst I eat (sometimes it'll be a business or working dinner). Then go home to cycle/watch a film, or do light emails/credit whilst on a call with family or watching the news. Read for 30 minutes to help me get to sleep by midnight. I work mostly Monday to Saturday, sometimes I take off Monday given I'm not in US time. Sundays I go to church and catch up with family, dates or friends, or hike and combine social and exercise. Sundays I also journal and write casually, I'm authoring a book on my army experience and also a casual contributor on business and technology.

Firstly, Time blocking, I use toggl to record the time I spent in each week for a month. Then I hired folks specifically to unload work that took over a day each week. Say, for example, recruitment was a big focus when we were growing, hiring ahead of people helped offload talent acquisition and additionally opened us to social capital I didn't have in San Francisco. I also block out times of the day to do certain things, like emailing or working out, brushing my teeth after lunch, etc.

Secondly, I delegated more, I introduced slack and this helped with quick communication and allowed us to hire remote talent that was also difficult to find in the Bay Area and was much cheaper to hire a Ukrainian developer than one in San Jose. I shifted all emails to basically a tweet-length and cut out most meetings except for morning standup and lunch walk and talks with my C-level peers.

Thirdly, I used time boxing, and the Roosevelt method to cut down shit I didn't need to do and to focus on what was important. I delegate or remove tasks, often the best thing to do is to say no and not overextend, managing expectations is 90% reducing work.

Fourthly, I cut out time-wasting points, add a blocker for social media and anything nonwork like youtube, etc. I get 10 minutes of the hour to look at Facebook, youtube, twitter, and all those distractions. I also have messenger, tinder (6tin), Whatsapp on my pc so I can punch out comms quickly.

Fifth, I shifted quarterly OKR's to my professional life to include personal life and started ticking off personal development goals, like PB's in running, how many articles I would write a year, and how many conferences I would speak at a year. These were useful for personal networks and building my profile. I would actively set aside time to not work, and challenge myself so I was more well rounded. Sailing for example was a great way to get social networks in HNW's in the Bay area and meet higher status women.

Six, I hired a PA that is part-time. Just useful generally for sorting out life admin like buying gifts for nephew etc. You can get a virtual PA for very little from the Philippines. I also did the same professionally and have a winter and summer internship program with the local t1 university where I basically hire an MBA student as my shadow and offload Business Analysis work to them and they keep me up to speed on best practice in Big 4 / MBB consulting.

Seven, advisors. Both personal and professionals. I see advisors once a month for whiskey or a coffee/walk, chat about feedback to my economic model for our series A, or introduction to a specific investor, or advice on this new girl I'm dating - should I pull the trigger? I talk to my Priest and spiritual advisor and attend an Opus Dei circle monthly (this is probably the best single thing I've incorporated). If you hate religion, I guess an older chill uncle would be a good secular equivalent.

[–]izzyinjurious3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Dude, this helps immensley in the way to attack goals and look into the day to day stuff.

You should definitely make a post about this so other people can view it. I'm sure more people would need it in whatever situation they're in.

I appreciate the words of wisdom and sharing your personal insights.

[–]throaway4000s1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

are you rich?

[–]CasaDeFranco2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

On paper perhaps, most of my net worth is tied to investments however but I have enough to not work by my late 30's. I did liquidate a bunch in the last year to take advantage of the current climate, and drop some into nonprofits I sit on the board of.

The last girl I dated came from family money, she thought I was cheap, so it definitely makes dating tough. All people have to do is google you and it absolutely changes for better or worse how you are treated.

[–]throaway4000s1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

So what toys did you buy to reward yourself?

[–]CasaDeFranco5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

Honestly, to be frank, the process of building the company made me horribly depressed, all I would think about was work and had little hobbies or interests outside of it. It was only last year when a close friend died did I cash out a bunch and hire a CEO to replace me and start living.

I did spend some money but found it didn't really do anything, what worked was reducing to 50 hours, dating more, spending time with friends, and investing time inside projects/investments.

Some of the stuff I did spend coin on was the following which did make me happy:

I bought a vintage 1970's bike, modified it from the ground up as a cafe racer.

I bought part of a yacht with a friend, a 30 ft monohull, we compete during Winter twilight seasons and it's good for the summers for casual sails.

I sold my car, I'd like a nice old Mercedes but I travel too much to really need a car and hate driving myself unless it's for fun.

I draw, I write, I publish content on my industry for a few publications.

Dropped around $1.2mm in technology investments / advise startups.

[–]throaway4000s1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

On one hand I want a lot of money but on the other I want to be minimalistic. I need to redesign the company website and launch an AdWords campaign but I'm lacking the motivation to do so

[–]gGrillz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Success varies from one another. What would be success to me may be completely boring to you thats why I specifically said “subjectively successful” because you might just want to have a high notch count with nothing to show for it while the next guy wants to eventually have a submissive wife, obedient kids and a 6+ figure income. Really depends on how you look at it but I won’t point and sputter that your reply could be more tasteful. I’ll let the hens do that.

[–]Endorsed Contributoritiswr1tten1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy


[–]shouldergirdle1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Not Vistage. Same idea.

[–]Cerohero1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Beauty of labor

[–]skunkbear4440 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You can't sit still and smell the roses.

Well that really sucks.

[–]dtyler8617 points18 points  (1 child) | Copy

Incredibly isolating. Your friends now are likely your friends for trivial reasons, maybe you have some of the same vices, maybe you are both conveniently similar socially. These friends often don’t want to see you succeed because it is a stark mirror reflecting back at them that they are not successful. Only your other successful friends will congratulate you and encourage your mission. The women you reject will call you names, attack your masculinity, your friends that you no longer have as much time to see will call you arrogant, your focus on finances will be regarded as greedy and selfish and unnecessary. The biggest thing I never expected was that the more successful you become, it often is paralleled with consistent learning on the side. I never stop learning and in a fact, I now see the world in a very negative and very different way. Those same previously mentioned friends that are not a successful I now have less respect for. Not because I am “better than them“, but because I strive to be a better version of myself and a lot of them don’t. They have no plans for themselves, no ambition to achieve anything, and at the end of the day they want to try to lean on the old tropes about money not buying happiness, and often they lean very socially and politically left to make their super blue pill laziness more reasonable to themselves.

[–]gGrillz[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for the reply man. Who would have though that it can in fact be so isolating at the top. You make these sacrifices on the way and dropping off anchors that would’ve weighed you down. Would you say you’re happy with the results?

[–]Idris00717 points18 points  (0 children) | Copy

Good question and nicely worded. Just here for the answers

[–]mrrooftops9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

You surround yourself with quality, not quantity like you do when you're young. Choose who you spend your time with selectively because you'll never feel more lonely surrounded by the many more people you don't connect with. All things going well, you'll become a connoisseur of fine people, as much as you are one they select to associate with. You'll only get lonely if you can't find inspiring people to know, but don't fall into the trap of filling that void with too many sycophantic ass kissers, it rots the teeth of your character.

[–]0ggles8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy

Yes, as a programmer. I am constantly improving my systems and scaling. Creating multiple streams of income. I can work from anywhere remotely, but it does not make a difference. IRL, it is difficult to find people who are on the same level mentally and financially. Once you reach the top, you view people and society differently.

[–]izzyinjurious1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Uff, not OP but I am a web dev trying to get into SWE.

Any tips on the road to the top?

Have you worked remote and lived in Europe?

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy


[–]gGrillz[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Ah another way of looking at it. Its sort of like stoicism where you are in control of your life and you just accept whatever that is out of your control. Loneliness is in fact relative and its what you make out of it. I am completely fine in solitude when its time to buckle down but your close circle gives you a sense of comradery. Thanks for the comment man

[–]OneTrueQ0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

No problem bro

[–]Natural_Singer6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

No. It doesn't have to be if you're surrounded by men of similar status.

It gets very lonely for men who make the climb alone. Once they reach the top, it might be hard to find others in their position who weren't already established because they had their community already since birth.

[–]PreEntertain20 points21 points  (2 children) | Copy

I like your discipline but I worry you aren't enjoying your journey enough. Drop some acid and get blasted once in a while.

It's the climb, brother.

33, reached my goals and didnt make any more yet. I'm in a great place but definitely miss chompin at the bit, slayin' strays, and pushing people out of my way

[–]gGrillz[S] 8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

Thats a completely fair point. I do struggle sometimes to enjoy the process and maybe I should be little more spontaneous once in a while. Appreciate the comment brother!

[–]PreEntertain4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

All the luck in the world brother.

[–]skyrunner2212 points13 points  (2 children) | Copy

All I can say is it does get lonely but you need to meet likeminded people who you actually like being around. May be very difficult. Also dont make huge sacrifices if your goal is some big destination in far future. You might arrive there and it doesnt seem soo big and is not what you expected but you cant go back on major sacrifice.

Best way to combat that is balance, everything in moderation, which means you CAN have some fun when you are younger. Dont sacrifice youth/time and be stuck looking back. While your nose is to grindstone, look up every now and then and enjoy the roses around, you will not get that time back

[–]gGrillz[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Perspective! Thanks for the reply. I can for sure see the two sides to the coin and you are right. Time is most valuable to me and there should be to an extent some equilibrium to reach self enlightenment. Otherwise I’d live a life although hopefully with success, the experiences I would have missed out (ie. travelling, partying, seeking out the odd LTR here and there, making financial risks) would be on my mind forever

[–]izzyinjurious2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Not OP, but thank you for sharing your words of wisdom.

How did you end up meeting like minded people?

[–]Vloneturtle5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

This post motivated the sh*t out of me. Glad to see that there are more men out there going through the same journey as me. Keep going brothers

[–]gGrillz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Best of luck to you on your journey brother!

[–]3chazthundergut5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Heavy lies the crown

[–]axiscontra4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Alone but never lonely. My friends are whoever I decide to engage in at the time. It's my choice and thats what this about having the power of choice.

[–]itsamesss4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

I spent my 20s working hard as fuck in school, staying healthy with running and the gym and making good friends (both men and women). I dated here and there, I’d say I had a low n count but it was enough at the time. I’m decent looking (my face is great, body is good, just average height however).

Fast forward 15 years and I’m an interventional cardiologist and director of our hospitals’ cath lab. I’m fun and do adventurous stuff (heli-ski, travel to exotic places, backpack, run marathons, do triathlons, etc). I still go out but man it’s great to have much much much more money than before. I’ve fucked so many nurses and other staff even married ones (well, 3 so far).

Work hard and make good guy friends. You’ll go far.

[–]gGrillz[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Dude its actually so crazy you told me that because im back in school trying to pursue the MD dream as well. Also a nurse currently and its not fulfilling...this shit motivated me that much more. Thanks brother

[–]itsamesss1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

A nurse background is great. I had quite a few MD friends who were PAs and nurses and made great doctors.

My mom was an ICU nurse and taught me so much when I was in school.

Good luck - you will do great. Stay consistent.

[–]OlderRedBrother8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy

Great question

I have a few goals in my life but really my first mission is to obtain freedom and autonomy.

So naturally, I’m saving up as much cash money as I can, building my FUCK YOU Find a Cash so that at a certain point, I’ll only be working for fun and not because I have to :)

I don’t want to retire ever, I want to work the rest of my life… I just want to work on projects of my choosing that appeal to me

The other skill I’m looking at building is becoming a decent handyman and learning how to maintain a Homestead. that’s going to be a main endeavor of mine this summer.

i will day this ——

I haven’t achieved my angles yet but I am a 31 year old and I have noticed what you speak of. So many of my friends from earlier in my life have completely started to live different lives… Getting sucked into the 9-to-5 career bullshit… Consumerism… Expensive girlfriend or an expensive wife… Expensive home in the suburbs…

It’s like, bro you literally make 2-3x as much money as me LOL but your expenses are just high

My expenses are low as fuck, I am saving Mad cash though because my expenses are super small… Religiously lifting and working on my body… And at this point in my life style freedom is just so great that 50-75% of the year I literally do whatever the fuck I want that day.

it’s a pretty sweet feeling, being 31 years old and I am getting to the point where i know i can pretty much fuck any woman I want to, besides maybe super rich/famous women

because the ultimate masculine imperative is achieving your own freedom

(also, lift weights , build muscles, invest and a proper skin care routine, and stack cash… And your SMV will be high as fuck)

I am also lucky in the sense that I spent the last five years of my 20s being a free agent and working on my game. No serious girlfriends during that time. But I got good as fuck at socializing with people, not being memorable, charming, being interesting… And being able to almost always effortlessly approach any woman that I want to

Sorry for the humble brag, I definitely don’t have everything figured out and of course I still get schooled by life sometimes… But so far this year has been the best year of my life and I am really proud of the things I stand for

I hope this post about building your body… Saving as much money as you possibly can for your fuck you find… And placing achieving freedom at the top of your list of life missions as your priority… Bro you are going to be a pussy slayer

[–]gGrillz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Hey man thanks for the reply! Feel free to humble brag, its sort of nice to hear success stories from other guys on here who have put in the work to reaped the benefits. Theres absolutely nothing wrong with building the financial freedom and autonomy so that you can work on yourself in all areas in life. I’m really inspired and I hope I can get there one day. Until then, I’ll continue to lift, fuck, get on my purpose and stfu.

[–]curvedbymykind0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

How much is fuck you money to you, jw?

[–]turbospeedsc3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yes, being in charge is often lonely, you cant go with your coworkers and get shitfaced, because you're the boss. You start to mistrust people intentions all the time, and you have to realize, that most friends and girls will be gone once power is gone. This comes from a mid to high position i held for 6 years, think COO at state level 300ish people.

Is it worth it?? hell yeah!!! power is damn addictive, and one of the things a man has to experience, money is good, but power is AWESOME.

[–]gGrillz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

A lot of guys would have different things in mind when it comes to what they want from their future may it be power, money, women, self actualization or a feeling of being wholesome. Theres no wrong answer! Very cool to hear what everyone had to say on this thread. Thanks for the reply man!

[–]usedtimecapsule2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

It sure is lonely at the bottom too.

The world is a lonely place.

[–]Senior EndorsedVasiliyZaitzev3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy

For those of you who are older or are subjectively successful, would you say your life is relatively normal/isolated or has improve drastically?

My life feels "normal" to me but wouldn't to others. I'm happier now than when I had to turn up at an office every day. I still work but have a lot of discretion over the conditions under which I spend my time, etc. Having that kind of control over your life is a huge deal.

My days are generally predictable, so pre-quarantine, I'd get up, have coffee, check emails figure out what the day was going to look like, head off for a sauna, etc. Grill & Chill by my pool for lunch, handle whatever conference calls I had that day, and so on and so forth. If I want to have one of my girls over during the day, I do it. If I have one over in winter then it's wine by the fire.

At 24, I stay focused on my purpose by keeping my head down and blinders up. I lift and invest in myself by giving up consumerism for long term gain, spin plates when time permits and keep my circle pretty small. Moreover, I abstain from drugs and alcohol.

All good things. If you read the "After Hours" and "Advice for Young Men" sections of "CorporteLand" you will find some useful advice there, in terms of lifestyle.

For those of you who have reached a level of self-actualization, do you feel a sense of enlightenment?

So you still have to deal with the vagaries of day to day life, but in general your life can be as seamless as you want it to be. Getting back to what I said earlier, there is a lot of happiness that comes from having control over how and under what conditions you spend your time. It also helps that my Frame is basically made out of titanium steel. It won't be that way for guys just starting out, but when it happens for you, it's life-changing.

[–]izzyinjurious0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

On avg how long do you think frame of steel is achieved?

I’m about 2.5 yrs into TRP and I still have moments where it breaks and I catch it during or after the fact. Never before I act. Which is a little difficult but a great challenge.

[–]Senior EndorsedVasiliyZaitzev2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

Depends on the guy. If you are where you are at 2,5 years in, you are doing fine. Frame is not a permanent condition, like having a college degree. It's a matter of degree, and you can gain it and lose it.

[–]WalterHuey0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Except for the sidebar and TRM books etc, you got other advice on holding frame?

[–]Senior EndorsedVasiliyZaitzev2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Frame come from confidence.

Become the Prize

-Master your life. Become the Prize.

You Never Stop Competing

-Life is About the Struggle. Here's What You Need to Know to Win.

Uncle Vasya’s Guide to Outcome Independence or Welcome to Level 99 DGAF

-How to Rock Out With Your Cock Out.

[–]7reYZVmn0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you.

[–]ivanbxng3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I’m in no way successful yet but lately I’ve been focusing on working hard. Training 6 hours a day to become a pro boxer but I also found that giving yourself 1-2 hours to just be grateful does wonders.

Like I’m training non stop but I make time for my bros to just chill and enjoy the momento. After that we just go back to our grind and thats it.

I guess finding the perfect group of friends is key, like my 4 closest friends are red pill and always on their purpose so all of us motivate each other. And after one of us achieves his goal we celebrate and party like mad men 😂

[–]absolutelynp2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

do you feel a sense of enlightenment?

bro it can go either way...I was on a good path at 24 too, but it can change quick, you values can shift and what you want from life...there is even a chance that you regret that you spent your time investing in the future and not living in the present for example. but in general, good idea what your doing I guess.

[–]gGrillz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks brother. Theres always the other side of the same token and in this case, what if I do happen to regret living in the present? Its a good time for me to seek balance in my life.

[–]Noodlesoupe22 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Nah if you’re so hyper focused on someone else’s definition of success that you don’t enjoy life that’s not success. I have no problem with working hard to attain success but I also try to enjoy my life as much as possible

[–]Joe_Doblow2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

No. You don’t get to the top alone

[–]Shackrats1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

For those of you who are older or are subjectively successful, would you say your life is relatively normal/isolated or has improve drastically

I am a nationally-known veteran and para athlete and while women line up to fuck me, I am incredibly alone.

I have slept with over a hundred women, I am as far as ever from having a wife and kids. It agonizes me.

[–]gGrillz[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

This is an interesting thought. You’ve clearly accomplished so much and have women coming to you yet theres a feeling of isolation. Do you think its the lack of substance from those around you? I can understand if something as simple as conversations being very superficial and etc. Like another comment above, they said friendships become very trivial in nature. What are your experiences like?

[–]Shackrats0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I think that there is a camaraderie among veterans, but because all of us have been through the wringer, our friendships go up and down with moods. If somebody is a wreck, I will do my best to be a good friend to him, but realistically, we're not enjoyably going camping, for example. I also don't like to talk about the war all the time, but some guys are stuck there, and for all of us, we can only talk to each other about those experiences, so I do find those conversations draining.

Among athletes, at the higher levels there is of course always rivalry. Often your friendship is only as good as the numbers you are putting up. I have made good friends with teammates, but you can only stay at this level of competition for a short while, so many of them have dropped out of the roster.

Ironically, despite those limitations, military and athletic friendships are usually my stronger ones. Regular Joes don't understand getting up at 4am to train, or going weeks or months without alcohol. Athletic training is a lifestyle unto itself and there's a whole spectrum of social activity closed to me during that time. On the other hand, most people think the Army, especially fighting in a war, to be cool or exciting. I have a hard time when younger guys want to hear war stories because those aren't Call Of Duty fantasies for me, they're persistent nightmares.

As with all things, all men have been better than any woman about these things.

[–]gGrillz[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Thats insane, thanks for sharing man. I could not imagine going through what you’ve been through but it sounds like you’ve made leaps and bounds. I can however empathize about your friends continually talking about the experiences you’ve all shared together and it can be a repeated bout of frustration and is draining but like you said, they are also one of the closest friends and I don’t take the comradery for granted.

The path to personal success on all levels of life is no easy affair and its cool to hear what other people have to share about their journey. We can’t do this alone and this is a clear indication for me to have like minded individuals around me.

[–]Shackrats1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

We can’t do this alone and this is a clear indication for me to have like minded individuals around me.

That's the key.

[–]Altin_Beg1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Even before you reach it. On the road to the top you’ll have to sacrifice many things, including your social life. Many people can’t relate to that so they’ll think you’re lame or weird. Their loss

[–]Velebit1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

The biggest mistake of the trp narrative you often get is that it treats humanity as 2 monolitic blocks. 'Women are all like x and men are like y' which is utter nonsense and a lie. Learning about hbd or HUMAN BIO DIVERSITY is absolutely key.

Humans vary massively by traits. Traits are mostly influenced by genes and have only a small effect from nurture. For example while everyone can exercise, what drives people to work out and stick to it is highly genetic and highly heritable.

If you have traits that are:

*being high in impulse control (not giving in to temptation and ability to dely gratificatiin)

*high conscienceousness

*low neuroticism

*high industriousness

This means that you are K selected. This means your basic brain wiring is to lead (and be satisfied with) what is in biology called 'K selected' behavior or in sociology 'slow life history strategy'.

The way you are means you can't just be a sociopathic, hedonistic materialist. A lone wolf that is just set out to itch a scratch... usually by raw pleasures, thrills and status flexing on others.

You can be a lone wolf but that will come with costs, costs on what makes you feel fulfilled and satisfied and you can already feel that this egotistic (im enough for myself, im myowngod) thing does not fit you. People who it fits never even arrive to the point of questioning it. The very act of questioning it comes from deep withing, an instinctive sense of things not being right.

Your satisfaction lies in having a wife, kids and a community you care about, not merely being a workhorse now so you can enjoy things when you are already old enough that most things lost their spice and taste.

The worst thing you can do to yourself is allowing to be influenced by old materialist hedonists, type of men who at 40 are in night clubs. Basically a symbol of the civilizational ruin of our age.

[–]OlderRedBrother0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

can you talk more about this “K selected” thesis?

where can i read more about this? any links or sources or websites or books come to mind?

[–]Velebit0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yes. First of all you can find out about it by searching youtube terms like r vs K selection gene wars. Stefan Molyneux and Edward Dutton have videos that talk about it.

Basically r is like rabbits. They become sexual very early, they live fast and die young, they are focused on not delaying gratification and just being yolo. They don't invest a lot in offspring and if stressed bunny moms will eat their own kids. Overall they invest a couple of minutes a day taking care of them for only a few weeks. They don't really have a lot of collectivist relations. If attacked bunnies will just scatter and run away. They are very individualistic and don't invest or care a lot about community. R selected creatures are typically pray animals.

K selected are typically predators. Like wolves, orcas or elephants. They live slow and predictable lives. They delay gratification and save resources for later. They invest a lot in offspring, spending huge amounts of time and energy on them making sure they get the best possible of everything and sacrificing themselves both for kids and for the community they are a part of. They are pack animals, very collectivistic and share and build stuff together and have hierarchies and stick together.

With humans it is similar with fast and slow life history strategy. Abused and unstable environment experienced kids tend to be more towards fast life. Hedonistic, live for now type of promiscuous people are easy to find in this camp. Of course it is not black and white, but a scale and women tend more towards slow strategy as do populations that evolved in colder climates.

[–]RealJoeDee1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes and no. There's fewer winners at the top, so it's a smaller peer group and can be more difficult to make newer friends. This is where 48 Laws come to mind about protecting your reputation at all costs. Because it's a smaller group it's easier to burn bridges and get ostracized.

[–]erottawa1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'm a successful lawyer in my 40s. I have a gorgeous house in the countryside and am established enough in my career that I can work from home 3 or 4 days a week. I get my work done fast and so I have lots of time for hobbies, friends and family. Life is good. I worked hard when I was young and so I can relax more now.

But I don't feel a sense of "enlightenment", whatever that really is. I feel the exact same as I always did. Same person through and through. I grew up in a tough blue collar area and am still the same ruffian underneath the veneer of success. I don't consider myself "at the top", athough my family income is definitely top 1%. And no, I'm not lonely. I can connect with people of all income strata and backgrounds - that's a skill to hone since it is useful.

You need to stay focussed on the future, but not at the expense of the present. Don't forget to live for the here and now. You have 24 hours every day - spend roughly 8 hours working (focussing on the future), 8 hours sleeping and 8 hours playing. There's lots of time to do both work and play, as long as you don't waste too much time.

[–]gGrillz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for the comment man. I guess self-actualization for some is not the be all end all or the end game. For guys who wish to seek excellence, its about continual mastery and competence because if you become content with what you have (nothing wrong with that), you might slack off with the time allotted to you. Time being literally money to me, I think I need to continue on the grindstone but also spare the time to do other things. Time management and productivity. Great lessons.

[–]BlackFire68-3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy

If your path isn’t fairly lonely and difficult, it isn’t the path to success, that’s certain. I keep hearing people talk about a destination.. but a lot of guys don’t know how to pick a point to slow down and “retire”. Once you do that, things are as lonely (or not) as you choose.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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