Imperfection vs. Red Flags

Br0ther-Finger · 2021-03-14T17:18:55+00:00

I’m in a trash marriage with a scrote so maybe I’m not the best to give advice, but I have noticed the differences between the relationships of LVM’s and HVM’s.

The key is owning up and taking steps to improve bad behavior. The flaws in a young LVM will be red flags in hindsight because they get worse over time. A college guy who binge drinks and thinks it’s cute has a good chance of being a full blown alcoholic at 40. A college guy who binge drinks and considers his health and takes steps to find healthier ways to spend his time is a flawed human who is learning to be better.

Also, red flags are more mindset related where flaws are more ignorance. Like a young LVM will tell a racist or sexist joke. An ignorant young man might use a common word, like the “R” word and stop immediately when he learns how it’s hurtful and wrong to do so.

LV people are self serving and not interested in growth and HV people are always striving to be better to others and themselves.

Since you’re so young, the young men you will date will fuck up, so correct them immediately. If they show remorse and fix their scrote-ish ways immediately then I think it’s fine to chalk it up to ignorance. If he doubles down or tries to minimize - absolutely a red flag.

carlther · 2021-03-14T17:33:18+00:00

When a bad trait is identified, see if he makes excuses or blames others for his bad behavior. Or, if he tells you outright he will make no effort to fix it. This goes along with entitlement. Blaming others and not taking ownership over our shortcomings is a fatal flaw, it will not go away, and they should be discarded immediately. He is messy, and he says "My mom never made me clean up after myself." Red flag. He is sliding or getting in trouble at work, and he says "well my boss has it out for me." Red flag. If he EVER treats you unkindly or a basic lack of respect, and he says "my ex was (abusive), (cheated), etc. so I'm "sensitive". MAJOR red flag. If he ever blames you for his issues, dump immediately.

DifferentBar6 · 2021-03-14T17:20:46+00:00

It's not realistic to expect perfection from myself or a partner. Relationships are not perfect either.

That being said, I tolerate a lot less bullshit than I used to when I was younger because I (mistakenly) thought I wouldn't be able to find a better man and I might end up alone (!).

Now my approach is "so be it", I'd prefer to be single than to be with an LVM.

I guess you have to weigh up whether his bad features are dealbreakers for you. The FDS guide is a starting point. I read a lot of posts on FDS and relationships forums and think about what makes sense for me. Your dealbreakers may be slightly different.

Also, whilst people can change, many rarely do, so don't take someone on thinking you can change them. You can't. If you can't accept him as he is now, it's not going to get any better. However, a HVM is someone who does have the capacity to learn, change and improve.

Does having this man in your life, on balance enhance or detract from your quality of life? What about your mental health, anxiety etc? Nobody "needs" a partner and nobody needs a man to have a fulfilled life. Some of my dealbreakers (not exhaustive):

Misogynistic views/red pill thinking/homophobic/racist etc
Basic hygiene
Does he do household tasks/cooking/cleaning/childcare (if any children)?
Is he caring/kind/thoughtful?
Does he earn less than me?
Is he generous? Big wallet = no good if he never opens it
How does he treat anyone vulnerable? eg pets, children, elderly, the disabled. Does he have empathy? i.e. how would he treat you when you are sick?
Is he a porn user/have harmful sexual tendencies?
Is he honest/a cheater/manipulative?
being rich/high status/titles are useless if he's a shitty person. Many men in positions of power are highly manipulative and can be abusive, but in subtle ways. They are good at hiding it. Don't be fooled by job title/status/degrees/$$. None of these guarantee he's a good person.
Does he respect consent and my autonomy? Does he pressure me to take part in sexual acts that I don't like?
Does he care for my health/wellbeing/comfort/safety? Does he try to pressure me into taking the female contraceptive pill? Does he refuse to wear condoms?
Any traits of narcissism or psychopathy
Is he generally a decent person...etc

I can compromise on looks if he has a good personality. It's hardly asking for much tbh!

Concernedmama16 · 2021-03-14T17:28:02+00:00

This is a great question! And I might not be the best person to answer it but I'll share my thoughts.

Humans do have imperfections and people annoy each other sometimes. I think an FDS approach to dealing with that is twofold. Firstly, you don't want to date someone that you need to "change." If, for example, you are dating someone and discover that their car or apartment is really filthy, that person is not going to learn how to be neat. It will always be on you to pick up and you will drive yourself insane trying to cOmMuNiCaTe that you don't want to pick up his underwear/ towels/ dishes. That's a red flag. Now let's say you have someone over to your place and they leave their glass on your coffee table or whatever. That is maybe more a moment of forgetfulness. If you bring it up, a HVM will respond without getting angry and will avoid doing it again because a HVM will care about your wants.

Secondly, you want to beware of men who don't listen to your requests. If a guy gets mad that you have a problem with something, that is a huge red flag.

A list of some things that are red flags: being highly critical, sloppiness, entitlement, disrespectful of your time (being late or not communicating with you in a timely manner), trying to convince you to have sex, yelling.

It might be helpful to make a list of behaviors you don't like in a partner and then try to put them in either the "imperfection" or "red flag" category. You could even list them here and I'm sure some FDSers will help you sort them out.

iwant-to-stay-unknow · 2021-03-14T17:21:50+00:00

Throwing my 2 cents. I say it’s a red flag when it’s consistent.

For example when you’re vetting a BF who is a healthcare worker and doing crazy hours due to the pandemic and barely has time to sleep and bathe.

It’s the difference between: 1. Seeing his apartment is messy because he’s just so overloaded with work. But when he has time and or things calm down he actually does clean and does a proper job of it. Vs 2. His apartment was always messy. Was messy before the pandemic, during, and will be long after. This shows he can’t properly clean after himself and unless you want to live in squalor you’re gonna have to do all the clean up for him. Or leave him. I suggest the later obv.

In general keep an eye out for entitlement. It’s the root for a lot, if not all red flags IMHO. The: 1. I want sex and want it like this, I deserve it so I’m willing to lie and pressure you any way I need to get it. Or if you don’t give it up I’ll go to someone who will 2. I don’t want to pick up after myself, I want you to do it so I’ll stall until you can’t take it and do it for me. 3. Incompetence. In the same vain as 2 but displayed a bit different. Some may genuinely believe they’re that inept, some fake it. But at the core they have this false belief that you need to do it for them or hold their hand like a particularly dense toddler. 4. I want you to behave this certain way, my wants matter more than your autonomy, so I will break you down until you act how you should. 5. Lies/platitudes (especially the “I’m sorrys”) to get you to do what he wants but never fulfilling his end. He got what he wanted, he doesn’t care about changing. 6. I don’t want to do childcare. I bring home a paycheck, that’s more than enough. I need and deserve time to relax.

The list goes on, it’s depressing. Hope this helped.

gigi_chi · 2021-03-14T19:25:20+00:00

Any sort of disrespect is a red flag.

RecentSprinkles5997 · 2021-03-14T22:49:50+00:00

I second HOW they respond when they do make a mistake is key . Do they listen to what toy have to say or do they say your being sensitive, say your causing drama, act cold or escalate into yelling . Do they learn from their mistakes or do they make the same ones over and over . People that don’t ever admit they are in the wrong in my experience don’t learn from their mistakes and thus they repeat them . Young men who are worthy of your time will comfort you if they’ve hurt your feelings not punish you for speaking up

Carpedictum · 2021-03-14T18:40:59+00:00

No. Not everyone is “a little toxic.” That’s some serious gaslighting, kumbaya moral relativism and its horseshit.

There’s an extremely clear line between “human flaw” and toxic: who is it hurting? If you only do your dishes every other day, that’s a human flaw. If you leave them to pile up until someone else breaks down and does it-that’s toxic. If you have a trust fund and just work a fun part time job, that’s the human flaw of being lazy. If your family is starving because you won’t work, that’s toxic. If you’re 20 pounds overweight because you binge on sweets twice a week, that’s a human flaw. If you’ve eaten yourself into morbid obesity so that your children have to act as your parent- that’s toxic.

These other women have given great examples and resources for determining red flags, but you’ve pretty deftly honed in on the point of a red flag- it’s a tip off to toxic behavior. Toxic behavior is anything that hurts another person.

Papaverinum · 2021-03-14T22:50:13+00:00

Man who loves you and wants to be with you won't do anything that would put your relationship in danger. That's something to have in mind when you try to tell a flaw from a red flag.

all_or_nothing_bet · 2021-03-14T22:51:48+00:00

If it's potentially harmful than it's a red flag for me.

I won't tolerate any imperfection that would cause me wasting time, energy or money.

I won't tolerate someone who won't bother to learn their own language and communicate clearly. Who can't hold a stable job, who has anger issues or poor impulse control. Bad manners, poor hygiene, etc. - I don't have time for this.

Platipus6 · 2021-03-14T21:48:07+00:00

Arguing that we cant expect someone to be perfect and everyone is a little toxic. Is this narrative true?

I only ever hear that whiny bullshit from losers. Right after a woman states a reasonable boundary or normal adult behaviour like wiping your ass after you poo. "What! Wipe my ass?? You're asking too much! No-one's perfect!"

We can expect people to act like decent human beings. We can have the standards of zero toxicity.

As someone else stated, who are they hurting with their flaw, themselves or others. If he's late to work, that's on him, and he better shape up. If he's late to a date with you, that's a lack of respect for your time, and he's gone.

Decent people admit what they've done, acknowledge how it harmed you, apologize sincerely, and don't do it again.

Toxic people deny, get defensive, deflect, minimize and blame-shift. And repeat the behaviour.

I've never met a man who can apologize so have fun listening to whiny, defensive stuttering before you block a dude.

Firstdayinhell · 2021-03-14T19:54:37+00:00

I agree with the other comments about taking steps to fix it vs. blaming others and denying it. I would also add that intention really matters. Does he do the harmful behavior because he didn't know its harmful or did he know in advance but he did it anyway despite that? Any behavior that is intentionally manipulating you or making you feel worse can never be just a flaw, even if he is working on not doing it anymore

Forwardgash · 2021-03-14T17:18:13+00:00

Here’s a good place to start.

Vmwvi · 2021-03-15T07:15:28+00:00

Honestly, I wouldn't date anyone who you actively see as imperfect, especially hoping that they'll change. Flaws are red flags. Cut off whoever said that you can't expect someone to be perfect, they're deliberately trying to lower your standards because they benefit from your lowered standards. Not everyone is toxic. While it is a toxic mentality to sacrifice your mental and physical health for "perfection", asking for the bare minimum is not toxic. An example of an actual "imperfection" would be overworking themselves to get to their goals or being afraid of spiders. What differentiates it from a red flag is how they respond to it, e.g. do they want you to be a live-in maid because they won't pick up after themselves or do they make time to ensure that the house is clean in a busy schedule.

Title	Imperfection vs. Red Flags
Author	msbsolla
Upvotes	166
Comments	25
Date	March 14, 2021 3:45 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/FemaleDatingStrategy
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/m4xh7u/imperfection_vs_red_flags/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/imperfection-vs-red-flags.751396 https://theredarchive.com/post/751396

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