Drunk fan slaps a cop | PussyPassDenied

TJClayton · 2018-01-17T19:36:42+00:00

Drunk fan slaps a cop20,996 points•4,702 comments•submitted 3 years...

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[+]johnmal851 points 8 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Is punching the appropriate technique used to subdue? She was also so drunk she could barely stand up or slap with any force at all. I don't think a face punch is a justified response.

[–]Equilibriator 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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So at that size you're either obese or look like Arnold Schwarzenegger in his prime.

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[–]the-capitan-1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Common law fills the gaps left by statute. This is seriously first day of law school stuff.

except if you weren't a stupid law school student, you'd know that juries do not see or rule on common law. they determine facts. they base their decisions on jury instructions which are expressly provided by statute. they never see common law, and one cannot be convicted in criminal court by mere operation of common law. you seriously have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

MPC:

This requirement primarily focuses on the use of deadly force and when it is legally justified.

it says nothing about "proportionality". a slap not need be met by another proportional slap. a slap is non-deadly force, and any other non-deadly force intended to stop or terminate the attacker's actions is legally justified. even if the defender happens to kill the attacker, if what is traditionally non-deadly force was used (e.g. a punch or push), and the defender did not intend to kill the attacker, that is still valid self defense.

seriously, pull up any case on "proportionality" and look at the facts and the ruling. the entire case centers around deadly vs non-deadly force and when deadly force is justified. that's why the distinction goes straight to deadly vs non-deadly force in the MPC.

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um yeah, no. that's all out of context.

the proportionality under modern jurisprudence is only separated as a distinction of deadly vs non-deadly force. if you slap someone, there's nothing saying they can't hit you in the face with a haymaker, knock you out cold or even kill you, and that's legally self defense. you gave up your right to not receive violence when you started the violence. seriously, look up each one of those cases, and what the defendant claimed is self defense.

now if while you're knocked out on the ground, they ran up and started kicking you, that's what your first quote is talking about. vengeance killing is not permitted. that's why when claiming self defense, you never hit someone in the back of the head, and you never shoot someone in the back. they're no longer an aggressor... they're trying to escape.

go pass the bar and come back. this has a lot more nuance than you want to admit.

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[–]rascal_king5 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

what?! you literally just made that up. please cite the law that says that reasonably necessary self defense "always includes at a minimum, incapacitation of the attacker."

just to shut you up: "In a case where nondeadly force is used, a defendant is entitled to an instruction on self-defense if any view of the evidence would support a reasonable doubt as to whether the prerequisites of self-defense were present, to wit: (1) the defendant had a reasonable concern over his personal safety; (2) he used all reasonable means to avoid physical combat; and (3) the degree of force used was reasonable in the circumstances, with proportionality being the touchstone for assessing reasonableness." Commonwealth v. Franchino, 61 Mass. App. Ct. 367 (2004).

note that this lists proportionality as an element to be included on a jury instruction for non-deadly force.

[–]the-capitan-3 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

the attack happened at UM in miami, florida. so get fucked loser (here's the actual jury instruction from florida statutes):

It is a defense to the crime[s] of (name[s] of relevant crime[s]) if the actions of (defendant) constituted the justifiable use of non-deadly force. “Non-deadly” force means force not likely to cause death or great bodily harm.

In defense of person. § 776.012(1), Fla. Stat. Give if applicable. (Defendant) was justified in [using] [or] [threatening to use] non-deadly force against (victim) and had no duty to retreat if [he] [she] reasonably believed that such conduct was necessary to defend [himself] [herself] [another] against (victim’s) imminent use of unlawful force.

In defense of property. § 776.031(1), Fla. Stat. Give if applicable. (Defendant) was justified in [using] [or] [threatening to use] non-deadly force against (victim) and had no duty to retreat if:

(Victim) [was about to trespass] [or] [was trespassing] or [was about to wrongfully interfere] [or] [was wrongfully interfering] with land or personal property; and

The land or personal property was lawfully in (defendant’s) possession, or in the possession of a member of [his] [her] immediate family or household, or in the possession of some person whose property [he] [she] was under a legal duty to protect; and

(Defendant) reasonably believed that [his] [her] [use] [or] [threatened use] of force was necessary to prevent or terminate (victim’s) wrongful behavior.

there is no proportional response requirement. the only distinction is on deadly vs non-deadly force.

[–]rascal_king6 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]the-capitan-1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

get wrecked loser...

georgia:

GA 3.02.10 Justification; Use of Force in Defense of Self or Others

A person is justified in threatening or using force against another person when, and to the extent that, he/she reasonably believes that such threat or force is necessary to defend himselfYherself or a third person against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. A person is justified in using force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if that person reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily injury to himself/herself or a third person or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

north carolina...

If the State has satisfied you beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant assaulted the victim then you would consider whether the defendant’s actions are excused and the defendant is not guilty because the defendant acted in self-defense. The State has the burden of proving from the evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant’s action was not in self-defense.

Even if you find beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant assaulted the victim, the assault would be justified by self-defense under the following circumstances:

(1) If the circumstances, at the time the defendant acted, would cause a person of ordinary firmness to reasonably believe that such action was necessary or apparently necessary to protect that person from bodily injury or offensive physical contact, and

(2) The circumstances created such belief in the defendant’s mind. You determine the reasonableness of the defendant’s belief from the circumstances appearing to the defendant at the time.

and under the model penal code, the only sense of proportionality is solely on the deadly vs non-deadly distinction.

The defendant cannot claim self-defense unless the degree of force used is objectively reasonable under the circumstances. This requirement primarily focuses on the use of deadly force and when it is legally justified. In general, deadly force can by employed in self-defense when a reasonable person feels threatened with imminent death, serious bodily injury, and, in some jurisdictions, a serious felony (Or. Rev. Stat. 2010). Serious bodily injury and serious felony are technical terms that are defined in a statute or case, depending on the jurisdiction. The Model Penal Code states that deadly force is not justifiable “unless the actor believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death, serious bodily harm, kidnapping or sexual intercourse compelled by force or threat” (Model Penal Code § 3.04(2)(b)).

[–]rascal_king3 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]rascal_king6 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

you are a sad little man.

EDIT: again with the edits, eh? can't get your whole thought out the first time?

firstly, you've moved the goalposts from "there is NO proportionality requirement in American law" to "there is no proportionality required in the use of non-deadly force" (which is still wrong).

secondly, and again: the text you've bolded simply means that deadly vs non-deadly is what is usually litigated. and, even what you bolded indicates that you're wrong. here, i will give you a reading comprehension tip that will help with your terrible statutory construction. notice how the text you bolded says "primarily" deadly vs non-deadly? do you know what "primarily" means? does it mean "mostly concerning, but not limited to"?

thirdly, and again: every statute you've cited requires the defender to use only force reasonably necessary. that is proportionality.

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shooting someone is generally seen as deadly force. slapping is not. therefore you need one of the special circumstances that allow deadly force to defend against non-deadly force. some states (like florida) have these, but others do not. this is why zimmerman was acquitted of murdering treyvon martin even though it was uncontested that zimmerman shot trevyvon, even though treyvon was only using his fists. in other states, zimmerman could have been convicted, because florida provides more rights of self defense than some others.

in this case here, the officer clocked the girl after she slapped him in the face twice... a fronthand and a backhand in his eyes. punching her, even if it's really hard, is certainly well within his rights of self defense. additionally, officers have additional protections. if a suspect is physically attacking an officer (as is the case here), it's certainly within the officer's rights to escalate to incapacitate or even kill the attacker, so long as the goal is to incapacitate the attacker. here, the officer clocked her and once her lights were out, he stopped. that's absolutely within his rights.

seriously, you started out your comment about criminal law classes, but clearly know nothing about criminal law. so again, quityourbullshit.

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and you're a fat tumblrina that no dude wants.

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Actually he's a felon who served time in federal prison for distributing MDMA.

So about the same prospects for future employment.

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Stupid cunt. Slap a cop, really? That is like on the top 10 list of the dumbest shit you can do in life.

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Was funny how I had long discussions over this here on reddit since most „law experts“ here took her side. Was downvoted like hell for this and couldn‘t care less. must live in a parallel universe to denial that cops right to defend himself.

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Holy Shit I love this video. There is nothing more entitled in this country than an attractive young white female. That cop put her in her place. One of the few times I don't mind cops losing some control. I have no doubt that to this day, she doesn't understand what she did wrong. "If you are male, you bow to me. You do favors for me. You let me hit you. You allow me to say anything I want even it it hurts you. Etc Etc"

[–]magnue 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]Pacodetaco1212 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Nah doesn't matter, don't hit people unless you're planning on getting hit back, doesn't mean you slap me and I'm going to slap you back it's escalation of force I'll hit you in the jaw and maybe when you're dazed and confused that 1 punch will probably teach not to hit anyone . Don't give me the bull about how she's 5'4", 130 lbs and the cop is 6' 210 lbs because I've seen plenty of men and women with permanent scars on their face's with cuts and nail marks and one of them lost their eye completely and discharged from the military in a fight he wasn't even apart of. She was resisting arrest, drunk or not carried away and slaps an officer yeah she's going to get charged for that and the officers taught her a lesson next time she's drunk she probably won't swing on police unless she loves the taste of blood and swallowing her teeth. To sum up, don't be a bitch.

[–]NateNfam 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]deathtocontrollers-6 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[+]Valac_I whiteKnight for fatties -41 points-40 points-39 points 8 years ago* (23 children) | Copy Link

I'm not saying she didn't deserve it.

But that slap was totally unnecessary.

Like she very obviously barely connected that slap.

Annoying? Yes

Illegal? Yes

Stupid? Yes

But I mean just charge her with assault of an officer and move on. This has nothing to do with her being female I just think cops should be more restrained yes being slapped in the head is annoying but it's a part of their job and she's already being restrained.

Edit: this is why people think our sub is toxic. I disagree with the "pussypass denial" in any way and you guys go ballistic.
The dude is a cop. Cops need to be held to higher standards there's no reason for a cop to hit someone who's already being restrained it wasn't necessary.

This has nothing to do with a man hitting a woman. It's 100% about cops not hitting civilians unnecessarily not reacting with aggressive violence.
This is how we end up with cops just fucking shooting people for even considering resisting and that's wrong cops #need to act better than we do

[–]WankelFan 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[+]Valac_I whiteKnight for fatties -12 points-11 points-10 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]IamTHEwolfYEAH1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

I see your point, and I don't think you're wrong, but in a lot of places hitting a cop will get you killed. No matter how drunk you are, everyone knows the consequences of hitting a police officer. Next time she puts herself in this situation I bet she will act better. He could have been nicer, but he definitely didn't have to be. The responsibility is on her (or anybody) to not be in that situation.

[–]Valac_I whiteKnight for fatties 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]santacruzer7 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]Valac_I whiteKnight for fatties 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Valac_I whiteKnight for fatties -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]santacruzer7 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]Valac_I whiteKnight for fatties 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Valac_1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm not a cop it's not my job to deal with idiots like this.

You keep making comparisons that are meaningless.

My statements apply only to cops. Cops are not regular people they should be held to much higher standards. How can they be expected to up hold peace if they can't even not react violently to a drunken idiot they are already restraining.

That woman posed no immediate threat to his life 4 people are already attempting to restrain her. He did not need to strike her for any reason it wasn't necessary in order to restrain her it was purely to make him feel better.

This is his fucking job he swore an oath to uphold peace. People like you are the reason we get cops killing kids over nothing.

Like for fucks sake how hard is it to understand that cops should act better than your average McDonald's worker.

[–]santacruzer71 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Valac_1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]santacruzer72 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]santacruzer71 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Divest19871 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

always one complete vagina in the comments that'll white knight for her

[+]Valac_I whiteKnight for fatties -7 points-6 points-5 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]jonquence 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Valac_I whiteKnight for fatties 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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You might want to look up the "use of force continuum." Essentially a cop is allowed to use one step above whatever is used against them to subdue the threat. You resist, they can physically restrain; you use physical force like a punch, they can use greater physical force like a baton; you use deadly force like a knife, they can use deadly force like their sidearm. They have to subdue the threat as fast as possible to keep the situation from escalating. You as a civilian are only allowed to use the same level of force used against you by another civilian. If someone hits you with a fist, you can't just beat them with a bat. Of course the court can take into account exceptions for different situations.

And as an aside, if you commit assault against an authority figure like a cop, teacher, or store owner it becomes aggravated assault.

[–]Genetic_Heretic 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

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[–]FlexibleToast 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]___Morgan__ 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The department’s Internal Affairs office never opened an investigation into Ross’s actions because no one, including Freitas, filed a complaint. The Herald made several unsuccessful attempts to contact Freitas, including visiting her home in Broward County.

She was arrested the night of her confrontation with Ross and charged with battery on a law enforcement officer and disorderly conduct. Ross, who has been with the department since 1999, works in the warrants bureau. His evaluations over the years have ranged from good to excellent.

Baez’s decision was in conflict with the views of some outside use-of-force experts who said Freitas should have been restrained before the officers lifted her up. They also said an officer throwing a punch is almost always a bad idea that results in an injured suspect or the cop hurting his hand.

Source

I deduced it from the fact no one investigated him, she got charged, and the people who disagreed with him didn't mention anything. Usually when a suspect is hurt in these cases the officer is investigated (Sometimes just to make the department look good. "We are doing something, look at us"). Usually they won't even charge you because they want to keep it out of the news, and people who disagree with how you handled everything would DEFINITELY metion something.

[–]Lupusvorax 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]chambertlo 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	Drunk fan slaps a cop
Author	TJClayton
Upvotes	2012
Comments	307
Date	January 17, 2018 7:36 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PussyPassDenied
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/pussypassdenied/comments/7r3ljy/drunk_fan_slaps_a_cop/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PussyPassDenied/drunk-fan-slaps-a-cop.907633 https://theredarchive.com/post/907633

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