Question for r/mensrights

Sushimole · 2017-01-06T10:36:17+00:00

Has there ever been a report of a woman doing a school shooting

Here's an article of psychology today mentioning examples of female school shooters, so "only" males doing school shootings is false, although yes they're the vast majority. It btw mentions also some reasons of why it might not be as talked about than male school shooters.

thrway_1000 · 2017-01-06T10:56:42+00:00

Two teenage girls face trial in Colorado for 'planning mass school shooting' [Link]

In 1979, 16-year-old Brenda Spencer committed a sniper attack at Cleveland Elementary School in San Diego [Link]

Laurie Dann, age 30, shot young children in Hubbard Woods Elementary School in Winnetka, Illinois [Link]

1996 Penn State University, 19-year-old Jillian Spencer, who was trained in the Army Reserve as a sharpshooter, opened fire on random students [Link]

Latina Williams, a 23-year-old nursing student at Louisiana Technical Institute, killed two classmates in 2008 [Link]

Professor Amy Bishop shot six colleagues in the biology department at the University of Alabama [Link]

splodgenessabounds · 2017-01-06T12:10:00+00:00

A better starting point would be: what combination of circumstances and reasons gets anyone to take a gun to a school and start shooting? Investigating that question will get you any number of theories to play with and, after you've sorted the wheat from the chaff, then maybe you may have some insight.

Don't forget, by the way, that many of those who committed these shootings were boys, not men, and that should open up a whole new can of worms.

Above all, (almost) all the most well-known high school shootings have occurred in the US: if you're looking for correlation (if not cause) that ought to be the first stop in your investigation.

tl;dr - you're asking the wrong question.

piar · 2017-01-06T22:56:17+00:00

Since you seem to be here in good faith I'll answer in good faith. A lot of the responses here are skeptical because others before you have not asked this question in good faith, so please take their posts with that understanding in mind.

The short version of my answer is that there are three contributing factors in the US (Note that as always in these types of discussions, these statements are generalizations/average scenarios):

The education system is built predominantly to favor girls and has little consolation for boys.
Boys do not have emotional support structures anywhere near the level that girls do.
Troubled boys have a less clear path to a desirable future than troubled girls.

4.* Over- and under- medication and diagnosis of various mental health issues affecting youth. I believe this one is gender neutral, but combined with the above is a critical factor worth noting.

levelate · 2017-01-06T10:35:29+00:00

what about brenda ann spencer?

read the wiki entry for the song 'i don't like mondays'

AVAtistar · 2017-01-06T14:36:15+00:00

So. you came here look for some form of validation that "only men commit school shootings" (false) "therefore all men are evil" (also false).

Anyway. Since you ask.

behind all school shooting there is an angry, sad and desperate person.

Women has the wholes society care after them (in general). Male don't.

So the proportion of males reaching the snapping point is grater.

In other word men are more often pushed beyond their limits than women.

Also, male and female then to manage their emotions, reaction and intensity differently.

Women are more likely to harm themselves than harm others. For example, cutting is more common in females than males.

Also, take note that the shooter never is one of the "popular guys", it's always the lonely outsider in the back.

CaptSnap · 2017-01-06T16:28:18+00:00

I think there is a media bias about men and women. If a man does something wrong his gender is mentioned front and center as well as what he is alleged to have done. When a woman does it, its softened quite a bit.

Here is a perfect example in my state last month

This teacher raped a 13 yr old boy over the course of 9 months. Thats what its called. She is a pedophile and a rapist. But the article never once uses the word rape instead saying "impregnated by".

They spend the majority of the article talking about how in love they were and how the family's thought it was ok.

Can you imagine a male teacher raping a 13 yr old girl and instead of using the word rape any media in the world referring to it as "impregnated" and talking about how in love they were?

So the short answer to your question is...there may well be many more male perpetrators of school shootings, and yeah it definitely seems like there are.....but when women commit crimes the media is biased to call them lesser offences. This way, no matter what, it looks like men are violent rapists sociopaths and women are "impregnated by" victims. Clever huh?

Tedesche · 2017-01-07T01:18:42+00:00

Since you seem to be getting a fair amount of grief over the "school shootings are a predominantly male issue" bit, I'll chime in and thank you for reaching out and trying to have a dialogue in a genuine way. We need more of that on both sides of the aisle.

As for the aforementioned reactions, what do you think would happen if an MRA went on a feminist sub and asked, "what do you guys think about dumpster babies—why is it mainly women who throw their infants in the trash?"

You're pretty much begging for a defensive response either way, by putting up the "enemy" flag and asking a provocative question about a sensitive topic, no matter how well-meaning you are.

Also, you have to keep in mind, one of the main gripes by MRAs about feminist activism is the degree to which it casts men in general as dangerous. As a feminist, you may disagree that feminists do this, but just about everyone here feels they do. When you say "let's talk about why most school shootings are committed by men," you are pinching that already-quite-sore nerve.

So, while I applaud your willingness to open a dialogue, I think it's important for you to understand that you stepped on a rather obvious land mine with this topic. As such, I would encourage you to have some patience with the negative responses you're getting, as you pretty much asked for them (or at least should have known you'd get them).

As for the topic, I think guns are more closely associated with men in society, period, than women. As such, i I don't think the idea of buying a gun even occurs to women as easily as it does men, because guns are considered manly. Women are more likely to resort to lying and deception to attack others than direct violence—they do this even amongst each other, from what I've seen. Boys are more likely to resolve conflicts by fighting one-on-one, whereas girls will attempt to manipulate the social hierarchy in their favor and against their opponent. Deborah Tannen wrote a good book about this a while back, called "You Just Don't Understand," if you want to look it up. I think school shootings are often an extreme (and disordered) version of male-typical conflict resolution.

There's also the fact that school shooters are often intentionally committing suicide by doing the shooting. Men are much more likely to commit suicide by gun, as well as "by cop"—they don't want to pull the trigger themselves, so they provoke law enforcement into doing it for them. School shootings are often just a particularly violent form of suicide that incorporates revenge as well.

As one final note of warning—if you even mention "toxic masculinity" here in any manner that doesn't completely dismiss it as a concept, be prepared to get reamed in the responses. That concept is considered extremely misandrist by MRAs, and if you think there's even just a teensy bit of validity to it, I would strongly recommend you keep that to yourself in this thread.

Consurgent · 2017-01-06T12:17:48+00:00

Why are all school shootings in the US? 🤔

oneiorosgripwontstfu · 2017-01-07T06:31:58+00:00

Why is it that infanticide is predominantly committed by women, even when the mother isn't the infant's killer?

We can trade loaded questions, or we can consider the possibility that violence is a dysfunction which is present in both sexes, but may manifest differently depending on the individual's access to victims weaker than him or herself and therefore vulnerable enough to attack.

Of course, that wouldn't lend itself to demonizing men as "the" violent sex, would it?

Sushimole · 2017-01-06T14:19:25+00:00

I think its the same reason that most of the geniuses and great leaders are men. because men and women are biologically different

men are the best and worst of society. men have a flatter bell curve when it comes to most attributes. that's why men fill the prisons and why men fill most of the leadership roles. whereas women are more likely to be average.

I believe that is the case with many animals. the males have more variability because one male can impregnate many females. so male variability allows a species to adapt faster by offering a wider palate of genetic traits

derpylord143 · 2017-01-06T14:45:01+00:00

The way i see it (though i wont say this is fact, just my view), is that the system itself is at fault. the education system as it is, treats men as if they are dirt, as if they are "faulty" by virtue of being male. couple this with the fact that the majority of school shooters (atleast that i know of) are socially inept (lack friends etc.) more than likely view school as something they simply hate, not just the teachers that act as if he is broken by his nature, but the students who similarly treat him that way... when you deal with that for years, its not surprising that some go of the rails. if you are constantly told you are broken, valueless, and so on, lashing out is going to happen, when we lash out, be it at others or ourselves we are really god damn effective... look at suicides, we attempt it in 1/5 of the times, yet make up 4/5ths of the deaths...

p.s. these are only the ones ive heard of, i dont know the majority just ones that reach british news...

cymrich · 2017-01-06T18:29:17+00:00

thats easy... because men's health, particularly mental health, is mostly ignored. and instead of treatment they are told stuff like "man up".

also, lets not pretend that women are innocent of atrocities. Children are far more likely to be harmed or killed by a woman than a man.

Criket · 2017-01-06T11:40:42+00:00

When you in a endless suffrage. You seek help they only tell you about how privileged you are to be ressource less and grow ball.

Leinadro · 2017-01-06T17:02:42+00:00

Personally I think its because guys are often taught that violence is the answer to problems. The same reason the vast majority of suicides are also committed by men. In fact a lot of mass shootings end suicide.

cld8 · 2017-01-06T22:42:45+00:00

School shooting is ultimately a mental health issue. Men are more prone to mental illnesses than women. Part of that may be biological, and part may be due to stigmas that prevent men from seeking treatment.

User2294 · 2017-01-07T03:54:31+00:00

I'm of the opinion that men are naturally somewhat more aggressive so I do think that's a factor. I also think that boys' issues are more often ignored, they are less likely to have someone to talk to productively, they are less likely to receive sympathy for their issues, and there are fewer destructive options for acting out for boys besides outright violence. There are also other differences in male vs. female childhoods like a difference in societal pressures, more corporal punishment for boys, etc. This all factors into an attitude of resentment and hostility.

I was never violent or prone to violence, but I definitely know these feelings from my own childhood, and it's incredibly frustrating knowing that no matter where you turn you won't find the kind of emotional support that girls much more frequently will.

v573v · 2017-01-07T06:50:25+00:00

The way that males bond leaves them at a higher risk of becoming socially isolated and social isolation one of the key traits to school shooters.

onyonn · 2017-01-07T08:20:54+00:00

Men and women are certainly both equally capable of violence, but just as they have different occupational preferences, the ways that they carry out that violence are different.

When it comes to mass violence and violence towards strangers, men certainly seem to predominate. However, for violence towards dependents (not just children, but nurses caring for the elderly, etc), women seem to predominate.

Female mass murderers and serial killers do exist, and are not that uncommon, but tend to disappear into the ether as far as public consciousness goes.

If you visit http://murderpedia.org/ you can read through the female entries. A description from the researchers:

More than half had murdered children, and a quarter had targeted the elderly and infirm.

I think this definitely tells us something about the psychology that drives women towards this kind of violence. This also fits Munchausen syndrome by proxy well (which also predominates among women). I'm sure the prospect of sympathy has far more appeal to women than men.

I think that men predominating acts of public violence tells us something similar. Possibly that a public act of violence probably involves some kind of 'blaze of glory' image. An image which certainly has far greater appeal to men than women.

ImaPBSkid · 2017-01-07T17:01:21+00:00

Better question: why are men disproportionally the victims of violence of all kinds (they are more disproportionally victims than they are disproportionally perpetrators of violence, in fact).

My guess is that the answer to your question lies with this one.

AngerIssuez · 2017-01-06T22:50:51+00:00

Why not ask r/AskReddit? This has nothing to do with men's rights, unless you're suggesting limiting rights just for men.

equiposeur · 2017-01-07T22:46:12+00:00

Your question requires delicate handling because of the common trap of assuming that negative male behavior results from innate tendencies, while anything positive results from privilege. (It's "heads I win tails you lose.") For example, if you say "men commit more crimes, and it proves they are dangerous," you can't refuse to see a causal relationship in, for example, "men create lots of patents, thus proving that they are creative." (I prefer to look for environmental factors in both cases.)

"Precarious manhood" is an huge environmental factor that most people are not even aware of. Not all men are viewed as "real men," and the term "loser" is a male-gendered term. Men are under tremendous pressure to be alphas. They watch movies (or any story) and understand that they are supposed to somehow become the hero. This pressure leads to both motivation and resentment. Motivation leads to successes (e.g., all those inventions), while resentment leads to acting out (e.g., school shootings).

aksoullanka · 2017-01-09T17:50:08+00:00

LOL first ever school shooter was a woman. Her name is brenda spencer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Elementary_School_shooting_(San_Diego)

Title	Question for r/mensrights
Author	Sushimole
Upvotes	11
Comments	84
Date	January 6, 2017 10:23 AM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/5mcvet/question_for_rmensrights/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/question-for-rmensrights.934525 https://theredarchive.com/post/934525

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