The notion of "toxic masculinity" is just women femsplaining masculinity.

azazelcrowley · 2015-07-30T11:54:57+00:00

The real problem with the term toxic masculinity is their total inconsistency with terms like it.

When a woman holds sexist views that fuck her and other people over, it's internalized misogyny. (Something done to her. She is a victim of it.)

When a man holds sexist views that fuck him and other people over, it's toxic masculinity. (Something he does to other people. He is toxic, or his masculinity is.)

You will never see feminists discussing toxic femininity or internalized misandry. This is because of their gynocentric understanding of the situation.

The use of the terms "Toxic" and "Internalized" serves as part of a general miasma of misandry and hatred that the feminist movement oozes through its general existence, holding men and women to different standards of agency for their culpability in sexism, the use of gendered terms, one hostile and judgemental, such as toxic, one sympathetic and highlighting victimhood, such as internalized. Another example of this general miasma of hatred is the term Patriarchy. Essentially all feminist discourse and terminology is absolutely littered with these problems, and it warps their minds and outlooks into being awful people through steady indoctrination into the idea that women have problems, and men are a problem. It's also self-perpetuating in general, and people who have become infected with this type of worldview will start coining terms like it. "Manspreading." is another example.

It's why there's always immediate skepticism when someone says they are a different kind of feminist. Merely by using the discourse and terminology, you are a part of the problem. It is a rancid and cancerous doctrine. You get the sense like someone just came up to you and said they don't have the bad kind of leprosy. It's a matter of time, and perhaps you are just a typhoid mary. (Though, leprosy is not as contagious as people may think. I'm using this for analogy.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoid_Mary

(Notice how this kind of "Disease" terminology, rhetoric, and symbolism makes you feel contempt, disgust, and hatred for feminists. This is akin to how they talk about men constantly. This is their frame of reference. Conversely, try this one:)

Feminists use terminology, rhetoric, and symbolism when discussing men that results in their dehumanization, this poses problems for the adherents of feminism in maintaining a healthy outlook on men, and may undermine their ability to properly interact with reality. They internalize feminism through a variety of mechanisms, narratives, and conditioning. A notable example of indoctrination process is when feminists feel compelled to verbally abuse, ostracize, and alienate persons who reject their worldview, withholding social acceptance from them, until they join the group. Part of the reason they do this is that if they fail to do so, they are in danger of being ostracized themselves.

(Note now how you feel. See the difference? But I basically said the same thing twice, just changing the symbolism, perspective, and rhetoric while refocusing to show the effect of feminism on feminists instead of it's effect on others. (Toxic v Internalized). This is why feminism is dangerous.) And another reason patriarchy is disliked. Even the term feminism is a part of this general miasma of contempt for men that pollutes their movement. All feminists should be forced to take a class in rhetoric, then they might realize why their movement is so fucked frankly, and why the "But that's not what patriarchy meaaanss" is completely missing the point. Feminist discourse breeds misandry and hatred. This is why there are so many crazy feminists. You guys who think you are different? You're typhoid mary. Do you get it yet? I would argue that this is why "good feminists" will ALWAYS be a minority in "Their own movement." Because only a small amount of the population is going to be resistant to dehumanizing rhetoric. Attempts to convince more people to be like your kind of feminism are absolutely fucking doomed, you're just spreading the disease. For every typhoid mary, you'll get thousands of cases of typhoid.)

chokingonlego · 2015-07-30T15:22:22+00:00

And the entire notion of toxic masculinity is feminism attempting to criminalize and shame all male related behaviors and traditions. Whenever they say "toxic masculinity", that's them literally telling us You're a man and you must be fixed. Your very existence is against feminism. It ultimately comes down to them attempting to destroy the entire concept of the male identity, in the hopes of getting rid of any antifeminist men from society.

StarsDie · 2015-07-30T13:40:20+00:00

I'm not so sure that "women" use this term regularly. It appears in feminist discourse, and, occasionally, in journalism, from what I've seen. And I'm pretty sure it's been used by men as well (male feminists).

EvolvingRedneck · 2015-07-30T14:19:03+00:00

I scanned their posts about toxic masculinity. They say it's about being stoic and they want to get rid of it. Well, being stoic is controlling your emotions, not letting your emotions control you. In short - they want to control men because they hate men. And for any feminist reading this and saying THAT'S NOT TRUE; feminists blame men for "toxic" masculinity. Feminists hate "toxic" masculinity. Therefore, feminists hate men.

gsettle · 2015-07-30T15:13:21+00:00

Women trying to define masculinity is just simple BS.

Quintus_Pillus · 2015-07-30T11:17:38+00:00

A masculine man can't be controlled, shamed, brainwashed, etc. Of course feminists want to get rid of such men and the best way to do it is to make sure that young boys never become masculine men.

TankVet · 2015-07-30T16:41:26+00:00

Can we talk and write about this like adults? "Femsplaining" or "mansplaining" are ridiculous. There are plenty of words to talk about what's going on, we don't need to use the invented ones.

nachtliche · 2015-07-30T18:22:58+00:00

Women don't understand the need for masculinity, even their own inner need and desire for masculine males.

87685765687876 · 2015-07-30T14:31:29+00:00

Dude, you know why people on the red pill are so angry?

Because they realize they were lied to. People have been talking about this shit forever, LOOOOONG before that sub (google “ladder theory”). If I could act like a chick, I would have done that. I tried gender-bending jobs, I tried acting like “me,” at one point, I even debated becoming a woman because I was so jealous of the world they lived in and how men and women, both, treated them.

If I could act the way feminists lie and say I can, I would, but then I would never be successful. Do you know what my experience was, acting like they say you can (in an ultra-liberal city)? I got mocked and taken advantage of. Feminists will stand there and go “see, she isn’t a traditional woman, why are you so against change?” and then, in the same breath, without ever actually saying it, condemn a feminine man who attempts to still be sexual or successful in the workplace (if you are gay, you have a bit more success in this environment, as you are not seen as a ‘threat.’)

Toxic masculinity is anything that gets in a feminist’s way. It's men being assertive, confident, or anything she doesn't want him to be.

http://www.laddertheory.com/

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=intellectual%20whore

PierceHarlan · 2015-07-30T16:06:39+00:00

Absolutely correct.

DavidByron2 · 2015-07-31T14:23:42+00:00

Well it's hate speech.

MRSPArchiver · 2015-07-30T10:17:39+00:00

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YetAnotherCommenter · 2015-07-31T10:07:53+00:00

I agree with you to an extent - clearly the way the term is used now is about women trying to classify bits of traditional masculinity according to gynocentric categories (i.e. "good for women" masculinity is awesome but "bad for women" masculinity is 'toxic').

That said, there are plenty of bad aspects to traditional masculinity. The problem is not the idea that traditional masculinity needs to be critiqued and changed... rather, the problem is the idea that traditional masculinity should be changed for the sake of women.

mariox19 · 2015-07-30T13:44:41+00:00

I appreciate this discussion, but there are two things wrong with the term I worry you're hoping to coin.

Number one, "mansplaining," as used by those who un-ironically use this term, describes the alleged phenomenon where a man condescendingly explains something to a woman. As far as I can tell, that's not what's going on here with "toxic masculinity." I don't detect condescension. If there is some, I'd be happy to have you "brosplain" it to me.

Number two, "mansplaining" is an ugly and puerile neologism. It's no contribution to the language. I'm serious about this. So, if you're going to use the term "femsplaining," please put it in scare quotes. I would hate to see it catch on among men's rights advocates. There is no reason to ape this kind of silliness.

chocoboat · 2015-07-30T11:44:58+00:00

"Toxic masculinity" does not mean that all masculinity is toxic or that men are inherently flawed. It does not mean that typically male activities are harmful.

It refers to the specific circumstance of a man doing something harmful to others or to himself, in his efforts to score "cool points" by living up to male gender roles. Typical examples include the guy who treats his girlfriend like crap when his friends are around (to prove that he's in charge and not whipped), or the guy who needs medical attention but refuses it just because he wants to look tough in front of people.

The term is not an insult to men or to masculinity. It's the name for a specific shitty situation that's caused by adherence to stupid old fashioned gender roles. It has nothing to do with women telling men what they should be like.

lost_garden_gnome · 2015-07-30T10:54:15+00:00

You re right in that feminists femsplain mens experience , to say this exists you also have to say man mansplaing in its origional meaning exists too .

But do you know what toxic masculinity is according to feminists (it was a male feminist who coined the term )?

Go to /r/feminismformen or /r/askfeminists , find out what it means and then make arguments about it .

mjwaters · 2015-07-30T14:51:57+00:00

I've seen toxic masculinity, usually in weight lifting gyms. Brosciencelife is an excellent comedic exploration of this state of mind and it's massive insecurities.

Title	The notion of "toxic masculinity" is just women femsplaining masculinity.
Author	derpderpderpnig
Upvotes	183
Comments	100
Date	July 30, 2015 10:17 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3f57oh/the_notion_of_toxic_masculinity_is_just_women/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/the-notion-of-toxic-masculinity-is-just-women.974368 https://theredarchive.com/post/974368

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