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Woman arrested after she lied about rape... And the article had to get that "2% FBI statistic" in there.

gotalotofissues

July 25, 2015
580 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.19actionnews.com/story/29491685/woman-arrested-after-police-said-she-lied-about-rape
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Title Woman arrested after she lied about rape... And the article had to get that "2% FBI statistic" in there.
Author

gotalotofissues

Upvotes 580
Comments 47
Date July 25, 2015 11:29 AM UTC
(10 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3ejujo/woman_arrested_after_she_lied_about_rape_and_the/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/woman-arrested-after-she-lied-about-rape-and-the.974698
https://theredarchive.com/post/974698
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Comments

[–]cutcunt 116 points117 points118 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

An innocent man was arrested but the real tragedy was

Our detectives worked 14-16 hour days, and that takes time away from family as well,

[–]l2ka 75 points76 points77 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Believe me, I completely understand your 1/2 empty glass approach but want to add a few things...

  • Considering this man could have actually been convicted, this is a small victory.
  • Considering the news actually reported it (factually) correctly, even more so.
  • Considering they not only exonerated the man but did something to her, even MORE so.
  • Yes, he probably had a bad time and will continue to suffer the effects but here's the slippery slope: If small (relative) victories are downplayed, pretty soon one could, in theory, end up just like a certain group of people who have nothing left to complain about but things like CEO hiring policies and how wide someone spreads their legs on a bus yet continue to do so. Not saying it's to that point but be careful and celebrate steps in the right direction. It's not quite to the point that this man's livelihood is valued over the convenience of a few employees, but perhaps soon.

[–]SilencingNarrative 16 points17 points18 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I agree with your list of pros, but celebrating incremental steps is not how civil rights are won. The fact that the target group is considered inferior should be brought up at every opprotunity.

The symmetry argument is powerful.

[–]emperorhirohito -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Stop making reasonable points and insult each other! This is the Internet for fucks sake.

But seriously which of you is right I can't work it out.

[–]Neo_Techni 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They should be glad they saved an innocent man. But the cost should go on the accuser

[–]walkonthebeach 17 points18 points19 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I like this bit at the end of the article:

"If you're a victim of rape, help is just a phone call away. The Day League 24-hour rape crisis hotline number is 404-377-1428."

Should be:

"If you're a victim of a false rape accusation, help is just a phone call away. The Day League 24-hour false rape accusation crisis hotline number is 404-377-1428."

[–]Tmomp 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

And following the Australian site with the domestic violence number to call for men, it should also say:

"If you're a woman and concerned you will falsely accuse someone, call 404-377-xxxx for help stopping yourself from hurting others."

[–]runnerrun2 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

brilliant

[–]mochacola 47 points48 points49 points 11 years ago* (24 children) | Copy Link

OT: About stats. I'm really bothered by how stats are read in these debates. Feminist camp keep saying 97 out of 100 rapists will walk free:

https://rainn.org/news-room/97-of-every-100-rapists-receive-no-punishment

But that is assuming all reported and unreported cases are true. Using the same stats, I can say, only 5 out of every 100 men accused of rape are found guilty, and then state the fact: "more than half of all prisoners released by innocent projects were convicted rapists", to suggest courts tend to err on convicting the wrongly accused. Can we not?

It's all using the same stats. So why do we keep assuming all 95% of unknown, are actually rape? It is what it is, it's unknown.

Of every 46 reported, only 12 lead to an arrest? Why can't we say, for every 46 reported, 34 do not even have ground to warrant arrests? That seems like a pretty high rate of false reports. No? Okay, so we factor in stranger rapists at large who can't be found for arrests. But 70%+ of all rape are perpetrated by people whom victims know. That's still 70%x(34/46), or 52% that do not have ground to warrant arrests. Isn't that 52% of bogus reports?

Btw, the "70+% of all rape are committed by people who victims know", also bug me a lot. I don't know why feminists keep pointing that out as if it has any significance. All that says is 70+% of all rapists have no problem harming people they know. So? That is it. They are scumbags, they don't care. That's all it says. But feminist seem to think that means women have 70+% chance of being raped by normal healthy men who are their friends, family, or something.

[–]Korvar 8 points9 points10 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

About stats. I'm really bothered by how stats are read in these debates. Feminist camp keep saying 97 out of 100 rapists will walk free:

This assumes that each instance of rape is committed by a separate person.

In actual fact, rapists are generally serial offenders, committing several rapes apiece.

[–]Lord_of_the_Bunnies 16 points17 points18 points 11 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

Just so you know, not warranting an arrest doesn't equal a false or bogus report. It usually means there isn't enough evidence to meet the minimum standards for issuing an arrest warrant/proceeding to an indictment.

I definitely don't believe the false reporting percentage is 2% though. I seem to recall the FBI and most groups agreeing it was around 8% a number of years ago and some studies even saying it went as high as 40%. It's hard to truly know since police don't really report and track that information.

[–]mochacola 12 points13 points14 points 11 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

I agree. Like I said, 90+% is unknown, and is just that. But just as they can assume all unknown to be rape, using that fallacy to claim all unknown to be false accusation until proven otherwise, tells a different story.

Point was, stats can be read differently to tell different narrative by assuming what that unknown must be.

52% without enough evidence to meet the minimum standards for issuing an arrest warrant, still seem pretty odd.

[–]NoGardE 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Lies, damned lies, and statistics, as usual.

[–]Lord_of_the_Bunnies 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

52% without enough evidence to meet the minimum standards for issuing an arrest warrant, still seem pretty odd.

Actually if you think about it rape is generally something done in private and if the rapee knows the rapist, it can easily become just a he said she said event. He said she saids don't meet the burden of proof for a trial so while the crime may be filed by the police the DA won't prosecute.

[–]iehava 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

The percentage of false reports range range from 6%-41%, depending on the study.

[–]cuteman 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

The percentage of false reports range range from 6%-41%, depending on the study.

Location and diversity of individuals matters a great deal as well.

I'd expect fewer from a city than a homogeneous population like a college or a college town.

I'd assume ~8% (slightly higher than fraudulent complaints of other types) in the city and potentially much higher on college campuses. If there are 5-10 complaints of sexual assault on a campus in a year, if even a few are false, that's double digits. And that's the demographic where they would tend to be the highest in general.

That's an interesting element when you consider where the political legislation has been focused.

Dear Colleague and it's changes to standards of evidence. Look no further than the recent UCSD treatment of a student regarding extreme unfair and unequal treatment.

California and now New York's Affirmative consent laws for campuses. In NY that comes just after the conclusion of the situation with Emma the Matress girl and her continuing victim status.

These are fundamental changes to what it means to be a citizen of a student community. Your wellbeing and livelihood can be attacked, eroded or destroyed by nothing more than an accusation.

Skepticism or evidence would be too uncomfortable therefore we should punish people based on words and feelings and it's all legal and even federally mandated because you aren't in jeopardy of losing your freedom.

[–]iehava 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I'd assume ~8% (slightly higher than fraudulent complaints of other types) in the city and potentially much higher on college campuses. If there are 5-10 complaints of sexual assault on a campus in a year, if even a few are false, that's double digits. And that's the demographic where they would tend to be the highest in general.

  1. Don't assume statistics.
  2. No empirical statement of fact or statistical relevance can be obtained from a sample size of "5-10". All of the studies I am referring to have acceptable "n" values.
  3. If we accept your ~8% figure for incidences of false reports (while this falls inside the range of studies of note, there are studies that give us false reporting percentages much, much higher; additionally, we can know for certain that the false report number is higher than any confirmed number simply because it is a certainty that there are some false reports that do not get found), it is not "slightly higher than fraudulent complaints of other types"; it is fully four times higher than any other fraudulent complaint type (2%).

[–]cuteman 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Don't assume statistics.

It is apparently 9% via the FBI which isn't far off. I didn't automatically assume 2 or 40%.

No empirical statement of fact or statistical relevance can be obtained from a sample size of "5-10". All of the studies I am referring to have acceptable "n" values.

But most large college campuses have between 5-10 official sexual assault complaints per year.

But that's important compared to non college jurisdictions, one year or a few years, etc.

If we accept your ~8% figure for incidences of false reports (while this falls inside the range of studies of note, there are studies that give us false reporting percentages much, much higher; additionally, we can know for certain that the false report number is higher than any confirmed number simply because it is a certainty that there are some false reports that do not get found), it is not "slightly higher than fraudulent complaints of other types"; it is fully four times higher than any other fraudulent complaint type (2%).

I agree. Maybe I was wrong to cite any kind of numbers (they were all meant to be approximate).

My primary focus was on the differences in methodology, population, questions, etc. I think we agree.

[–]iehava 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The reason I say that there is a range of incidence of false reporting from ~6-40% is that different ways of determining what constitutes a false report are used, depending on the study.

I also don't believe that the average large college campus has 5-10 reports of sexual assault per year. Just using FBI statistics that say 6.1 per 1000 (.61%) women will be raped, and that college women are 20% less likely to be raped than non-college women. Let's say we have a college campus of 50,000 people, half of which are women.

25,000 * .0061 * .8 = 122

So on an average 50,000 student campus, there will be, on average 122 rapes per year. Keep in mind that this number is only a fraction of the overall accusations of rape - false or unfounded reports, or reports wherein an investigation does not reveal enough evidence to convict or exhonorate. Also keep in mind that sexual assault is a much broader category of sexual crime than just rape.

If I've messed up the math or you have an acceptable citation for your 5-10 number, please let me know.

[–]Lord_of_the_Bunnies 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Oddly enough, if I remember correctly the studies I read said small communities had higher rates of false allegations compared to large cities. They theorized part of it was due to everyone sorta knowing everyone else so maintaining your reputation was important enough to file a false rape claim to cover up "shame".

[–]runnerrun2 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Let's round that and Obama's next speech will say "half of all women lie about being raped" - I mean why not?

[–]SigmundFloyd76 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Didn't the chief of police in NY or LA get in trouble for asserting 50%+ of all rape claims are false?

[–]mochacola 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This?

http://www.mediaradar.org/research_on_false_rape_allegations.php

It's still stats. But maybe worth looking into. And maybe one district would be different from what happens in the whole nation.

[–]CBruce -3 points-2 points-1 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Part of the problem is that a lot of rape goes unreported. There's no instances of 'not rape' going unreported. So that's got to skew the number of false allegations vs legitimate rape towards the former.

[–]Azothlike 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No, it doesn't. Because a lot of false rape allegations are threatened or told to acquaintances and friends, but never reported to police.

[–]mochacola 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Em. 'Not rape' is more likely to go unreported. Friends ask her why she had sex with that guy. To not get disapproval from friends, she claims she didn't want to, and that is therefor rape. So obviously, upon being urged by friends to call cops and helpline, she would call counseling and avoid escalating the situation by calling cops.

[–]Neo_Techni 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

And false rape charged go under reported

[–]CBruce -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

How does a charge go unreported? An accuasation, perhaps...but actual charges (which is presumably what's being quantified here) require being reported in the first place.

[–]Neo_Techni 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The same way rapes would go under reported

[–]cuteman 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

In terms of false accusations stats, they say they're exceedingly rare, some go so far as to say they're rarer than other types of fraudulent complaints. The ambiguous arrogant ones then go on to say that convictions are notoriously difficult to achieve. That's true of course, but it's also why bludgeoning people with favorable statistics is not the answer.

Nevermind the fact that false accusations of this nature are an order of magnitude more difficult to investigate and prosecute than rape claims that themselves are a challenge.

Short of confessions and smoking gun type evidence convictions are the rarest of the rare. Few to no police, DAs or judges have the political will to prosecute these kinds of cases without overwhelming supporting evidence.

The opposite is true in rape cases with zealotry being an apt description in some.

[–]gooberfishie 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I read recently that if a women is drunk she cannot legally consent any more in many places. That means every time a couple gets drunk and has sex and they don't report it, it is an unreported rape. Statistics can get quite blurred when you take facts like this into account.

[–]TechnoSam_Belpois 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is a fantastic counter point. Saving this.

[–]Dakrys 16 points17 points18 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Less than 2% of rape reports are false accusations. OK. Quite possibly.

What percent of reports are a result of tumblr feminism become law? "We were both drunk and I initiated sex without the ability to consent, therefore I have been raped."

How many reports are gray area sexual contact (which happens to everyone and shouldn't be taken that seriously) and the accusation comes from spite or anger rather than actual fear or violation?

[–]mochacola 11 points12 points13 points 11 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Be careful. Don't think that came from Tumblr feminist bots without power. Establishing illegal courts in college, pushing regulations within their control to deny college boys for their rights, while demanding governments to pay up for them to do this, came from the very top of the feminist establishment with power. And now they are also lobbying to do the same in civil/criminal courts.

[–]Dakrys 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I was using tumblr as a category not an origin story. Just the ridiculous shit they believe.

[–]SigmundFloyd76 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Good point. Or haw many are simply due the the intense sense of regret that often accompany's casual sex?

GWW has a video where she explains the evolutionary psychology behind that intense sense of regret. Our cave-person brains are still hard wired to avoid sex with a partner who won't stick around to take care of the eventual offspring. In early days, it was extremely risky for a woman to have sex with a man who wasn't "all in", her life was actually at risk if she became pregnant without support.

Evolutionary psychology seems to never play a part in any of these issues. It's been "cherry picked" out of the conversation.

Great comment.

[–]PM_ME_A_FACT -3 points-2 points-1 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

LOL what a fucking joke of a topic and field of study

[–]ImyourHuckleberry01 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Keep in mind that this stat is probably the number of people charged with the actual crime of making a false complaint.

In reality, courts are not supporting charges against false accusers with the bullshit reasoning that they don't want to discourage actual victims from coming forward.

I investigate sexual assaults on a regular basis and the actual number of false rape complaints is much higher than 2%.

If they ran stats on the number of sexual assaults that are "unfounded" I imagine a truer stat would be found.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 11 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

but the FBI statistic is 8%....

[–]Azothlike 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Doesn't matter, they brilliantly used a rape counselor to parrot the statistic as hearsay, that way they don't have to provide actual sources for their "news".

[–]Blutarg 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

  1. Article about rape lie
  2. Include "rape lies are rare" bit
  3. Go back to 1.

[–]c0mputar 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The 2% figure is like saying only 4% of accused men were actually the rapist.

[–]ThePigmanAgain 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"According to the FBI, it's less than two percent of rape reports are actual false accusations," said Michielle Maggard, a rape crisis counselor with Day League."

That's a straight out, fucking lie -- the FBI statistic is 8%, not 2%. The 2% was made up by Susan Brownmiller back in the 70s and has long since been debunked. Scumbag feminists strike again.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

My girlfriend filed a false rape claim with the police when we broke up. They decided not to press charges due to zero evidence. Did anything happen to her? No. In fact when I went to the police they asked me "why do you think she made that complaint?" Fucking bullshit.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They never put that stat in articles where a woman was raped; why would they put that here?

Also, aside from being charged with making a false accusation, she should be charged with unlawful confinement/kidnapping, since she essentially used the police to kidnap this guy.

And the cops are going on about how many hours they wasted and the time it took away from their families, but don't say jack shit about this guy have to spend time in jail because of this. WTF?

[–]FrenchLama 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

How do you even formulate stats when : *A - only a minority of abuses are reported *B - Not all false accusations end up being found false

[–]xC4N4DI4NBE4VERx 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

10 years in jail

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