Can your negative attitude and mindset really seap off of you like body Oder?

mikey_weasel · 2023-11-12T17:49:22+00:00

I think its combinations of:

Word choice
- hanging our in these toxic spaces will get specific words into your vocab. Like the obvious "females"
Different meanings for words
- the meaning of words will change. for example the way you say and what you mean by "feminist" can indicate a lot about you.
References made:
- Things like "The Wall" or "80/20" or "spinning plates" aren't part of common vocab and using those indicate where you might have picked them up.
Stances taken
- It can be easy to take a stance that would be normal within toxic spaces which aren't the default when outside those spaces.
Out of place awkwardness:
- Guys who are getting our of a toxic headspace often end up disproportionally awkward in casual interactions with women.
- this in particular is going to be more of a problem when paired with some of the others above.

So the obvious "how to work on this" followup question - its going to take time where you are challenging those thoughts, not consuming toxic media or hanging out in those spaces, and spending time in places and with media that isn't

Edit: I'm probably missing some other signals that people give out. Like I'm already considering how to talk about eye contact and body language or if that's also just lumped into awkwardness

CommentsEdited · 2023-11-13T00:36:04+00:00

This question may be missing the forest for the trees.

And if so what are potential signs one can give off that gives them a bad vibe even if I fake a smile, say hi, and be nice?

You can find laundry lists of “non-verbal cues” people claim to recognize, and there’s truth to that. But if your plan is to “bury my fears, and watch the shape of my jawline extra carefully”… it ain’t gonna work, my friend. Partly because of something even red pillers have been saying all along: Women don't know what they want.

Unfortunately, neither do men. (I’ll get back to that in a second.)

Can a woman really sense your negative toxic attitudes even if I keep it all inside? I was under the impression that there is no way in hell can an other human have the ability.

“Pill" types ascribe an "otherness" to women, as if they are fae creatures, out to dine on your bone marrow, if they can lull you into a false sense of "beta insecurity" first, or reject you wholesale if they detect you lack the requisite testosterone for their bleak, arcane rituals. "Alphas" are males who cultivate resistance to female eldritch magic, and seize the agenda, wielding forbidden knowledge of ancient rites, suppressed and twisted by feminist Praetors of the Matriarchy. Thus reclaiming their right to the eulogized practice of "plate spinning", in which a harem of resource-wanton succubi surrender in gluttonous anguish to the superior frame of the red-pilled incubus.

Do you want to know, "Can women tell?" or do you really want to know:

"Can my attitude affect my ability to get what I want from people?"

Humans are unilaterally terrible at predicting what makes us happy, and what we really need. Among other cognitive biases, I give you "the End of History Illusion":

In the studies we describe here, we showed that people expect to change little in the future, despite knowing that they have changed a lot in the past, and that this tendency bedevils their decision-making. We call this tendency to underestimate the magnitude of future change the “end of history illusion.”

But seriously, can women "tell"?

Yeah kinda sorta. Along with everyone else. But to "fool" them, you’ve gotta learn to play your body language like an instrument — effortlessly. Not grip it like a monkey wrench, and hit women with the "correct" nut width setting.

Achieving that requires exactly what the analogy suggests: Practice. Plus a whole lot of tolerance and humor about your own failures, and respecting others' time and attention as you improve. For some reason, even people super into "meritocracy" and "self-improvement" and "It takes 10,000 hours to get good at making peanut butter sandwiches" refuse to believe soulmates are bullshit, and that you have to work to merit romantic partnerships.

"Self-compassion" is a very healthy, critical part of productive vulnerability. In fact, being forgiving of your own mistakes, and patiently open with your emotions, actually makes you braver, and better at doing the same for others.

Highly self-compassionate people have been shown to rely less on avoidance and escape as coping strategies in stressful circumstances than less self-compassionate individuals, presumably due to reduced threat and higher (perceived) controllability of the stressful events. In addition, self-compassion led people to experience less burnout or stress and shame after a stressful event emotions that are typically present in vulnerable situations.

Self-compassion will make you a much better strummer of the strings of your own, non-verbal cues.

Take crying, for example, and emotional vulnerability. A popular topic around discussions about "men showing weakness". (Which is already a revealing way of describing vulnerability and tears. You don't even need an "odor" to know how a man or woman who calls it "weakness" feels about vulnerability.)

Visible tears impact how others perceive the crier’s emotional state, personality, and behavioral intentions (see [1], for a review). More precisely, crying individuals tend to be seen as more warm and friendly, more sincere and honest, but also as likely to be more emotionally unstable, incompetent, and manipulative.

It was a red piller who shared that with me! I don’t know why they thought a study saying “Tears are just a versatile form of communication” would bolster their case. These studies helped me better understand why my own, anecdotal experiences are so different from many men fighting "pilled" thinking. Even if women were turned off by men comfortably navigating open displays of challenging emotion, the benefits of being that way are way too great to ignore. But they aren't turned off. I’m a 5’7”, skinny dude with an uncircumcised (American) penis. I’ve heard horror story after horror story about men getting socially brutalized over height, gym body, and “What the fuck is up with your weird dick?”

Being taller might help a bit, and the gym has benefits, but my secret weapon has always been the opposite of “Dread Game”. Empathy game. It’s less "gay" than you think. Not just for “getting what you want”. Although it makes you persuasive. (Admit it — even if you’re red-pilled, you’re respecting my verbal hustle here, right?) Man-O-Sphere types sleep on empathy because they never bother to consider what it is: Building an imaginary, emotional bridge to reach someone else, and operate as an entitled agent. See what a little sales spin does? Now you’re thinking about empathy in terms of manipulation, not compromise. Which it can be, frankly.

More constructively, Empathy Game makes you an emotional leader who “stands outside the present,” without biases and cheap fears of scarcity. ("Attitude of abundance" is a very rare thing red pill gets right.) Imagine being on a first date with someone you really like (i.e. wanna fuck) who keeps rambling about her ex. She even apologizes, and says “I guess I’m not really over him.” Frustrating right? It’s not what I waaaaant. And I’m HERE. Willing to weird dick you! Unlike ex-douche.

Chill, bro. Here’s a “beta” move that will make red pillers cringe:

“Fuck it. Let’s talk exes. Tell me everything about being with that guy you’re afraid you’ll never be able to feel again, and what you love and admire about him. I’ll do the same about the ex that haunts me the most. And we’ll ask awkward, probing questions, and turn this into the ultimate train wreck date we tell our grandkids about. I mean the ones we have with other people.”

What’s the angle? There isn’t one. That’s a terrible way to get laid. It’s liberating as fuck, though. Because you’re taking control of what's eating at you, turning a “bad” date into a unique episode in your life, and auditing one day of a semester of What Women Actually Think They Want. (Spoiler: Mostly the same shit we’re wrong about, too.) My own attendance to which equips me to phrase it:

Tell me everything about being with that guy you’re afraid you’ll never be able to feel again, and what you love and admire about him. I’ll do the same

Instead of:

Let’s get it out of the way then. Tell me everything that’s so great about that guy.

Women aren’t stupid. And Empathy Game makes you more effective with men, friends, and family too. The sooner you accept that, the better. If there’s such a thing as a “beta” move, and exuding an “odor of desperation”, it’s lack of empathy. The first proposal is a genuine attempt to make a forgettable date the basis for a friendship/who-knows-what-later, because it benefits both of you, even if you never see her again. You’re acknowledging her worry about wasting both your time, and proposing a fix. The second proposal makes you both feel cheap.

I've never felt punished in a relationship for showing raw emotion, or crying, as long as I'm comfortable with the fact that it's happening. That it will have an arc — beginning, middle, and end. And letting her know she’s as welcome as ever, and I won't shut down. No one’s ever gotten all weird about my “weird penis”, either. Probably because it never occurs to me to be anything except nothing about it. Which squares with research:

Showing vulnerability has been defined as an “authentic and intentional willingness to be open to uncertainty, risk, and emotional exposure in social situations in spite of fears”. Although showing vulnerability might be a difficult endeavor, its potential benefits include fulfilling close relationships, enhanced job performance and satisfaction, better health, or increased creativity and innovation. Yet, fears of rejection or negative evaluations (e.g., being perceived as weak or incompetent) often prohibit people from reaping the rewards associated with showing vulnerability. Therefore, it is crucial to verify whether such fears are justified.

It’s a bitter pill (lol), but lack of confidence in one's vulnerability is contagious. That's the angle exploited by "pill" mythologies: You aren't "broadcasting value".

Red pill feeds the lie that what you (think) you want is what you deserve, and the only problem is not enough women know how great I can be. I.e., "You don't have a product problem, bro. You have a marketing problem. You don't need to change. You need to be more you." But if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Of course it's appealing: That you just need to become stronger, richer, more demanding, more "masculine", and less compromising, because the only thing women don't like about you is that you don't have everything else you want yet, except them.

Consider that logic, and ask yourself why women would want to be involved in your agenda in any way at all.

PutsWomenOnPedestal · 2023-11-12T22:51:26+00:00

There’s a lot of involuntary facial expression and body language that others can pick up on. Humans evolved to be good at subconsciously reading facial expressions.

shesarevolution · 2023-11-13T07:08:29+00:00

Yes. We know.

We might not know right away, but we know. If we are uncomfortable around you, there’s a reason.

You might think you can hide your toxic thoughts about women because you don’t say them outright, but trust me when I tell you that your views will seep out in other ways, just with casual conversation.

It’s not hard to clock a misogynist.

spiraldinosaur · 2023-11-13T10:09:24+00:00

Not "women", people. It's not some innate women's super power that they can sense emotions and men can't. We all can. You can tell if someone seems a bit quiet, or a bit down, or if they seem like they're holding back some anger. It's a natural human ability to read emotions, it's been one of the most crucial elements of our evolution for the last few million years. Hell even dogs can sense your emotions.

I think the important thing is that you figure out where these negative toxic attitudes are coming from and actually work on them, instead of trying to keep them inside. What is going on in your head? Why are you having these negative toxic attitudes? What exactly are you thinking/feeling? And most importantly; what are you doing about them?

If you want to spit out the red pill, that's the most crucial element of the whole process. You can't "girlfriend" your way out of this, you have to change that underlying attitude problem if you're ever going to develop healthy social and romantic relationships.

xvszero · 2023-11-12T17:32:44+00:00

I don't know if people can absolutely know, but they can probably sense it. If you're faking, faking, faking you're not giving legit reactions, and people used to legit reactions may sense something is off.

PNW_Uncle_Iroh · 2023-11-12T20:22:19+00:00

I wouldn’t say it comes off like an odor, but it’s pretty easy to tell after only a minute or two of conversation.

Yupperdoodledoo · 2023-11-13T00:15:06+00:00

Yes absolutely. A positive mindset, and a person who is generally happy and relaxed is very attractive to me, and when a person’s mindset is negative, and when it’s negative towards a certain group (like women), it comes out in a myriad of ways. You can’t hide something like that.

Unhappy people will seem tense and on edge. They take things the wrong way/are defensive. like, if we’re out to eat, and the server says some thing and then walks away, they might make a comment, indicating bad intentions on the part of the server or criticizing her.

It’s hard to emulate joy and pleasure when you’re uptight or misanthropic.

featherblackjack · 2023-11-13T01:28:27+00:00

Fantastic answers you're getting here, OP. I'm just going to add, a fake smile is really obvious to me personally. If you marinate in hateful and toxic thoughts about the kind of person I am, you're going to show signs when you talk to me. You're going to be rude, even if you don't think you're rude. Make remarks you think I'll be grateful for but are actually really nasty. If you set yourself up in that mindset it will show.

But not everyone can tell. I can tell.

wonderberry77 · 2023-11-13T18:56:41+00:00

Absolutely. You may think you can hide it, but you cannot. Most people 90% or more possess empathy in some degree. If you do not have empathy, you are a sociopath, and may wonder how this is possible. The answer is if you have a negative attitude and mindset, it does seep out of your sometimes more than others and people will avoid you like the plague. It's a gut feeling that others will get.

Probably evolved from having to sense out the crazy people in order to avoid getting clubbed and dragged back to some cave. Which explains why women seem to have a much stronger sense of this. It's so they can avoid monsters.

Straight-Sock4353 · 2023-11-13T20:35:40+00:00

Most of the time yes. There are some people that are very good actors and able to successfully fake it, but that is unusual.

DangerStarfish · 2023-11-14T06:14:15+00:00

....it's cause it's fake bro.

I'm.a dude and I hate fake smilers.

Shit feels like someone's trying to sell me something.

Idk bruh... Stop being fake nice, stop fake smiling.

Just Be you bro. And the people who actually like you are gonna like you.

If you put in a "mask", you're gonna eventually hate yourself. Because you think the "mask" should be the real you.

.... So be real nice.... And fuck smiling. Unless you're actually in the zone or are feeling good.

..... Learn to psyche yourself out into feeling good.

STAY HARD!

~Danger

RealRussShackleford · 2023-11-14T06:46:41+00:00

Really the bottom line is that people (not just women) can kind of innately sense when you don’t like them.

Have you ever experienced a situation where you’re talking to someone (for diversity sake let’s say a man) and even though he’s in no way rude to you, you can sense he doesn’t like you?

That’s essentially what women feel when they talk to a red pill guy. Even if he’s smiling and not being an ass, They can just sense he doesn’t like them.

meisterkraus · 2023-11-12T17:59:16+00:00

No people can not tell a toxic mindset. This is what people tell men when they are having trouble dating and the speaker can't see anything wrong with the person or they have a disagreement. The speaker believes in the just world fallacy. Now people can pick up on you being uncomfortable by looking at your body language.

Abject-Interview4784 · 2023-11-15T17:28:37+00:00

Yes word choice. Body language. Facial expression. It's tricky. We used to live in a more interactive society and practiced these things more. Good luck!. Try not to be too hard on yourself. Growing up and finding your place can be hard. Figuring out dating and social interactions can be hard. Find some relaxing no pressure hobbies and try not to fixate. Do you like music.events? Go with platonic friends just to practice your social skills and relax and.you.might possibly meet someone that way

Title	Can your negative attitude and mindset really seap off of you like body Oder?
Author	Possible-Shift249
Upvotes	10
Comments	40
Date	November 12, 2023 5:07 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/17tol92/can_your_negative_attitude_and_mindset_really/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/can-your-negative-attitude-and-mindset-really-seap.1238212 https://theredarchive.com/post/1238212

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