I'm just now realizing how often the term "mutual abuse" was used during the Depp v Heard trial.

TheLWMA · 2022-06-12T02:34:33+00:00

Mutual abuse does exist. It's just the Amber Heard/Johnny Depp situation wasn't an example of it, as much as feminists want to believe it was.

Not that they believe Amber anyway. They just want to throw an innocent man under the bus.

TisIChenoir · 2022-06-12T07:41:01+00:00

Also, when we're talking about a male victim, often he is said to "have done something to deserve it".

And that's disgusting. But somehow, victim blaming men is ok.

Stephen_Morgan · 2022-06-12T05:32:13+00:00

I've heard that a lot. I've heard that they were "both terrible people". I've heard that the trial shouldn't have been televised. I suppose people don't want to come out and say that they just wanted Amber to win.

EndHlts · 2022-06-12T04:07:35+00:00

Feminists will create a word to avoid admitting that a woman was not the victim in a DV case.

boomboxspence · 2022-06-12T12:35:36+00:00

Most of the time a woman kills a husband people say it's because he abused her but it's usually also mutual abuse. Same when a man kills his wife they call him abusive and don't think about how maybe she abused him

Mirisme · 2022-06-12T11:55:49+00:00

There's no way to accurately or sensibly address how abuse works within the framework of justice. It has been demonstrated by each subsequent way that the justice system dealt with that issue. The crux of the issue is that you can reduce abuse to "competing narrative of the same facts that are forced upon an person by another". Whatever narrative is accepted allows for a set of acts that are socially accepted. Abuse is the way one can capture that social power.

There's two way out of abuse, reconciling the narratives or separating them. The separation is self explanatory. Reconciliation means that both persons build a common narrative that allow for consensual acts to be socially accepted. It can be absurdly hard as abused individuals are prone to have highly disrupted sense of self-narration. That's why separation is often a necessary first step to even dream of any form of reconciliation.

The justice system comes and enable this dynamic by picking and choosing the winner. A current example of that is the way family courts works. If the parents are able to produce a common narrative, then there's no real issue, if they are not, the justice system will often entrench a conflict and make it stable. This stability has of course uses, it's after all easier and a good idea to stabilise a situation into a bad compromise than letting an all out war going on.

So people that are invested into the justice system and its solution have by principle irreconcilable narratives and the narrative shifts to make a better argument before a court of law. This is what's happening with the rise of the "mutual abuse" talking point. Nothing good can come out of that, only something less bad than outright violence.

Sinnaatraa · 2022-06-13T06:05:40+00:00

When a woman is the main victim in a case they never say mutual abuse.

MazerTag · 2022-06-12T14:16:24+00:00

If I've learned anything from decades of dating, it's: When I'm wrong, I'm wrong. When she's wrong, we're wrong.

Man_of_culture_112 · 2022-06-12T15:21:41+00:00

Feminist gaslighting.

lolaaloha11 · 2022-06-13T23:26:23+00:00

Just in general I’ve never seen so many people say “I’m so tired of hearing about this”, “they’re both celebrities this is just rich people drama” where these same people were absolutely loving the will smith slap, the same people who constantly go on and on about Elon musk and Joe Rogan etc.

The point being, for some reason when a historic case where; a woman uses the metoo movement to her advantage to ruin a man’s life for 6 years and for him to fight back and prove his innocence suddenly people are tired of “celebrity drama”.

This is mainly Reddit btw too y’a know where the “incels and degenerates” are. This case is bigger than “celebrity” drama yet for some reason these people don’t want to entertain the idea that MAYBE feminism is not perfect (who woulda guessed)

UncreativePieceOf · 2022-06-12T13:03:08+00:00

I think at least some of these people missinterpretated ( purposefully or not) what the psychologist on Depp's team said about mutual abuse. She was referring to Heard and her ex-wife.

The mutual abuse bullshit is such a stupid claim. All Amber needed to win was to prove one instance of abuse and Johnny would loose..

SpicyMarshmellow · 2022-06-12T09:53:28+00:00

I'm in the camp that doesn't believe mutual abuse exists, because I see abuse as something more than just an unhealthy relationship or two people being shitty to each other. It is about power dynamics. But power in direct interpersonal relationships is usually a product of how two people's personalities interact, not who has the most wealth, fame, demographic privilege, etc. If someone can get someone else to do what they want by threatening suicide, that's power. If one side of a relationship isolates, controls, and psychologically dismantles the personhood the other, and the victim occasionally snaps and retaliates, that's not "mutual abuse". It's self-defense or a natural response to being put under extreme stress.

And the fucked up thing is that feminists generally don't believe in mutual abuse either. I've seen several threads over on r.AskFeminists where posters deny that mutual abuse exists. Yet suddenly every single comment I've seen from them that wasn't claiming Heard to be the victim is claiming their relationship was mutually abusive. Shows their integrity.

FruityForestFairy · 2022-06-17T04:57:22+00:00

I’m very very far left in ideology and even I contest the idea of mutual abuse. It’s a very debated and divisive conversation amongst therapists and social workers. In 99% of cases there was an initial instigator. That doesn’t mean 100% of the fault and responsibility falls on them, because many peoples reaction to abuse can be very volatile and toxic which escalates the initial abuser. When it comes to this case it’s easy to see he had some toxic and misogynistic conditioning like many of us do. But really the extreme judgement of that conditioning is a failure to understand conditioning as a whole. We all just need a little more compassion.

Title	I'm just now realizing how often the term "mutual abuse" was used during the Depp v Heard trial.
Author	ChimpPimp20
Upvotes	155
Comments	41
Date	June 12, 2022 1:53 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/vabre3/im_just_now_realizing_how_often_the_term_mutual/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/im-just-now-realizing-how-often-the-term-mutual.1116339 https://theredarchive.com/post/1116339

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