Just saw a post on the Predaddit sub about a guy who is bemoaning not being able to escape being a father when the mother refuses an abortion. It bothers me that men get shredded to pieces for that thought while women receive support since it's "her choice".

country2poplarbeef · 2023-10-13T03:34:58+00:00

It isn't fair, and such inequality is why deadbeat dads will continue to flourish. I don't have a kid of my own, so I'm not projecting my own shit, and as far as my parental situation goes, I would've maybe been better off if my mom took advantage of her parental rights more and forced more money out of my dad, who made a lot more after the divorce.

But the fact is my dad wanted nothing to do with me after the divorce and he didn't want my name on his legacy, being raised by a single mom. And while I think he's pretty much a piece of shit, I think that's his decision to make. And furthermore, I think if he didn't have the State acting high and mighty about how every child should be provided for while they fail my mom at every turn, I think my dad would have been a lot more receptive to coming back in my life without that spectre of guilt and debt hanging over his head.

If we're gonna say that drug decriminalization will result in less self-destructive behavior with drugs because people will be better educated and less saddled with guilt in order to fight their issues, can't we also say that absentee fathers being less guilted and better educated at just what capacities they can be there as a father would be naturally more willing to be fathers?

Any-Cup-6041 · 2023-10-13T04:50:19+00:00

That's why I support men having an opinion on abortion they always feel like there entitled to speak about male topic like circumcision

ProfessionalPut6507 · 2023-10-13T07:12:46+00:00

"You nutted, that’s YOUR lack of self control. You are now responsible for a human. I can’t imagine being in your shoes but I also wore condoms, and slept with partners only on birth control. Time to man up, and support your child if that’s the decision she makes."

This is exactly the same reason right-wing anti-abortionists say about why a woman who was not careful enough should be forced to keep the baby. As Darth Sidious would say: ironic.

sn95joe84 · 2023-10-13T03:25:47+00:00

Ok. Thank for for posting…

This is an opportunity for me to make a point that I think is critical for paternal rights.

We, as men’s rights advocates, need to vehemently support women’s right to choose. I believe that this is not only the right thing to do for a woman’s perspective, but also for a man’s perspective.

In the scenario you described, the father does not choose parenthood. The woman does choose parenthood. In this case, I believe that before six months of pregnancy - when a woman is entering her third trimester and in many states is no longer eligible to have an abortion - there should be joint paperwork done.

The father can decide if he would like to legally participate in fatherhood, either by an equitable situation in which they cohabitate / raise the child harmoniously, or one in which he is not directly involved and he would be needing to pay child support.

Alternately, if the woman has the right to choose to have the child, then the father should be have the right to choose not to be involved at all. In this instance, he would not be mandated to pay for child support.

This would both allow women the right to choose, as well as men the right to choose fatherhood, or opt out.

Tie goes to the runner - if a woman wants an abortion, man doesn’t, then it’s her body, her choice.

In your scenario, this solution saves the man a lifetime of grief.

Dashing2025 · 2023-10-13T11:49:50+00:00

I have yet to see a social media platform that holds as many idiots as Reddit does.

Moreover, reddit isn't full of left-wingers as is commonly perceived; it is full of centrist liberals who alternate between left and right-wing doctrines depending on what suits their whimsical mood.

CoffeeBoom · 2023-10-13T09:39:03+00:00

Only way to put this is that for men, consenting to intercourse is consenting to parenthood. Even if in some extreme cases the woman can be fined or jailed (stealthing, rape...), the man will still be liable for the child.

This is the current state of things.

hottake_toothache · 2023-10-13T15:21:50+00:00

People don't care about men.

denvercaniac · 2023-10-14T00:54:51+00:00

I've had women come at me when I make the same argument, all the while wondering when they'll realize that men deserve reproductive rights, too, not reproductive responsibilities. I'm so, so, so tired of being treated as the gender who's supposed to do and be whatever a woman wants at all times, even if it's contradictory to my own aspirations. Men do actually get to be what they want too.

Superseba666 · 2023-10-13T07:56:39+00:00

I think that in order to make both women and men happy, paper/financial abortion is not the preferrable course of action. Another possibility is that before the first sexual activity there should be an "augmented consent contract" agreement between all partners for what to do in case of unplanned pregnancy (other information regarding STI, contraception methods may be added).
If no contract was made (e.g. random hookup at the club) then it could just default to how the system works right now.
Example scenarios taking just cis-het relationships for simplicity (and since they are the most likely to lead to pregnancy):

Unplanned pregnancy, both partners agreed to have an abortion -> the woman is always free to change her mind after testing for pregnancy, so there are thre cases here:

Abortion, everyone is happy
No abortion because the woman (or both) changed their mind -> everyone is happy, the man has no fatherhood/child support responsibilities in case he doesn't want to stay in their life
No abortion because of medical reasons (no responsibilities of either partner) -> the man is responsible for child support and has right to fight for 50% custody or they just stay together as parents (the situation can't be made better than this imo)

Unplanned pregnancy, both partners agreed to become parents:

No abortion, noone changed their mind -> everyone is happy
Abortion, woman changed their mind -> man is unhappy but agrees that ultimately it's her body her choice, I am not sure if there should be other consequences
No abortion, man changed their mind -> he agreed to have responsibilites, I am not sure if there should be other consequences or choices to be made

In my opinion with this contract, these 6 scenarios pose the best outcome for all parties involved (including the child). Scenario N.2 makes the woman responsible for both being the breadwinner and parent, but since it was ultimately her choice then it is HER responsibility.

Other bad scenarios are still possible, mainly fake signature and coerced signature. With a proper mechanism for such agreements and the presence abuse shelters for both genders, these situations can be limited as much as they possibly could. It's impossible to make illegal activities disappear completely and to be honest these scenarios also possible in the current system.

triple_skyfall · 2023-10-13T09:56:38+00:00

This is sad. As long as we keep placing most of the blame on men and allowing women to escape accountability, deadbeat dads will only increase in number.

There needs to be a law passed that if the man can prove the woman lied about being on birth control, and she then becomes pregnant, she's not entitled to child support.

CaptSnap · 2023-10-13T16:01:20+00:00

I think its unethical to force someone into being a parent without their consent.

I think its really quite selfish (except of course in states that are trying to reimagine the HandMaidens Tale).

And I dont think its in the best interest of the child at all. (except of course...again)

Which in my opinion, should be two strikes against keeping custody (except again in bullshit states).

If you live in some religious shithole I have much less of an opinion. Get married is the religious answer.

DaddysPrincesss26 · 2023-10-13T17:04:35+00:00

Oh, Really? Well, WHO put the Onus on Women to make sure THEY buy the Condemns, when MEN are equally as Capable? Who put her in that position in the First Place? Who “didn’t want the condemn” because “It feels good without it” while continuing to put her at risk if she is NOT on Birth control? Now you’re complaining that it’s HER CHOICE? You made your choice(s) when you didn’t consider your Consequences of your actions.

Just saw a post on the Predaddit sub about a guy who is bemoaning not being able to escape being a father when the mother refuses an abortion. It bothers me that men get shredded to pieces for that thought while women receive support since it's "her choice".

Comments

1. Change reproductive rights to be entirely customizable via a national available Reproductive Contract (RC) template.

2. The child-bearer retains full autonomy over any choices relating to bearing the child, including terminating the pregnancy.