Going Dutch on Dinner

ErasmusMRA · 2012-10-09T11:43:22+00:00

I'm pretty sure that going Dutch is what everyone here prefers. Sometimes women will claim that "whoever invited should pay," 'cleverly' implying that the man should pay since he's the one asking the woman out. But it gets ridiculous when you then ask them if their friends pay for them when they invite them out.

JohnAdamZiolkowski · 2012-10-09T20:32:06+00:00

I'm a woman in Germany and I always pay for myself, period. I'm in a relationship and we still split everything. He has a car and I don't, so I even pay him back for the fuel costs if we drive anywhere together.

One of my good friends is currently dating a Brasilian girl and he's totally been suckered into paying for everything, including dinners, romatic getaways, etc. It makes me just sick to watch.

silverionmox · 2012-10-09T12:22:32+00:00

My parents still knew the time when it was the habit that men would pay for women on nights out. Why? Because they, typically, had no income since they were working in the household rather than for a wage. But when women started to have incomes too, they started to pay for their things too. So it was not tied to gender (the man should pay), but to income (the earner should pay).

mythin · 2012-10-09T15:37:01+00:00

Who the fuck is paying for their platonic female friends? Is that a problem you guys actually have?

daulm · 2012-10-09T12:40:43+00:00

Actually, in the US going dutch is very common, except for romantic dates. My experience has been that if it is a platonic relationship there is equal contribution toward dinner, if the encounter is romantic, there is expectation that the man contributes more.

Of course there will be women who expect to always be treated, and other women who never expect to be treated.

ceresbrew · 2012-10-09T13:26:09+00:00

TIL that "going dutch" is not the norm everywhere in the world...

2012-10-09T13:31:30+00:00

It’s standard around here in Germany.

Basically, if you pay for her, it’s assumed you want a relationship. So if she doesn’t want that, she will even prevent you from paying for her. (And beware, since paying for her will only result in you putting yourself in the provider role and her in the pet-of-the-family role.)

A couple of women are still old-fashioned though. Especially those from south/east Europe.
And there are leeches who just want to get free stuff, and tell you to go fuck yourself if you expect anything in return.

I never pay for her, unless I still have some debt in some way, or she’s an old friend in need, or maybe when I’m planning on marrying her. (I don’t like the old-fashioned women, so this is a good way to weed them out.)

truthjusticeca · 2012-10-09T19:51:06+00:00

Not really a rights based issue, but individual men need to stop the insanity of letting women have a free ride all too often.

ExpendableOne · 2012-10-09T16:07:52+00:00

In a perfectly egalitarian environment, that's the way it should be. No expectation of "men should pay", no "he's a loser/cheapskate because he didn't pay" and no "well, if he makes me pay for myself than he doesn't really like me" bullshit. It's about time that women see men as equals in a dating context too and to see them as human beings who are just as worthy of time/effort as they believe themselves to be entitled to. You wouldn't have those types of expectations outside a dating context, a man's sexual interest in a woman shouldn't just automatically make it a one way street. Male attention, affection and sexuality has value too.

This is really not just about who pays either, but about the entire gender dynamic in dating. Men are people too. Equality between men and women should apply to all aspects of dating, intimacy and romance. Not only should women pay for their own way but they should also be just as expected as men to make the first move, to try to make conversation, to make an effort to get to know men, to provide for their own transportation if need be; not just sit back and expect men to do all the work to impress them or please them. That is not the way the world should work anymore(This entitled and white-knighting attitude is something that's actually quite common in Canadian culture still, excluding Quebec maybe, and 'going dutch' is still pretty much a death sentence with most women). Women are able to work, provide for themselves and seek men out first; not just be insecure/lazy/entitled themselves and then put the entire onus on men.

appleseiter15 · 2012-10-09T22:36:11+00:00

My girlfriend actually gets mad at me if I treat too much. Perhaps you people are hanging out with users.

McFeely_Smackup · 2012-10-09T22:37:20+00:00

You "went out with a bunch of German women"...and they all paid for their own stuff.

Were you on a DATE with a bunch of women, or were you just out with them? Nobody...and I mean NOBODY expects "the only male present to pay for stuff", this is not a germanic attitude. Have you ever paid for meals for women who just happened to be along with your group because you're a man?

I'd actually love to be in a situation where a bunch of women decided I should pay for all of their meals because I have a penis and they do not. The conversation would be awesome.

VerySpecialSnowflake · 2012-10-09T13:54:49+00:00

I am a young woman living in the U.S.A. and I can assure you with 110% certainty, it is not strictly a Canadian or German phenomenon. The feminists I know (which are many in school) always pay for their own meals, drinks after class, etc. so IDK why you say it is a Germanic attitude or "predates feminism." It is a bit impractical for my manfriend and I to go dutch as servers see us as a couple and assume the checks are together, so we simply take turns paying.

rightsbot · 2012-10-09T10:42:18+00:00

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primaloath · 2012-10-09T15:18:25+00:00

I'm in the UK, a lot of us seem to go Dutch here (except for some very manipulative women).

Niall87 · 2012-10-09T12:31:57+00:00

That's way too complicated, you actually have to keep count of what you've had, how do you do that after a few pints? I prefer the Italian style, total bill/ number of people eating .

Manzboobz · 2012-10-09T16:41:58+00:00

This is not a "Germanic" attitude. You sound like an idiot.

Do you really live in a world where you go out with a group of women you're not involved with expect you to pay? Because that is most definitely not the world I live in.

2012-10-09T13:31:30+00:00

what i'd do to find out who is paying/wants to pay is before the outing I'd call the other person/people and arrange things beforehand so things are sorted out before we get there. if someone else really wanted to pay for my meal as well I'd be sure to make sure I don't order anything expensive.

C0CKPUNCHER · 2012-10-09T15:08:33+00:00

Who gives a fuck?

campushippo · 2012-10-09T13:33:00+00:00

I think it depends on the individuals in question. The guy I am dating pays more often than not. It isn't expected of him. In fact, I appreciate the gesture. I think it's very kind. He refuses to allow me to pay for an entire meal, but sometimes I can convince him to let me pay for myself. Because of this dynamic, I often offer (or sneak ahead and do it anyway) to pay admission prices for events we go to. I also make a point of giving him gifts every now and then to show him how much I appreciate what he does for me. I would never expect him to pay for something, nor would I throw a tantrum if he didn't. We're certainly a bit old fashioned regarding gender roles, but we acknowledge that, and I accept mine as happily as he accepts his. We don't live together. I pay my own bills and I support myself. If the relationship works out, eventually we will get married and have kids, and I will stay at home to raise them. Not because I have to, but because I want to. I like the idea of making "going dutch" the norm, especially when couples are first getting to know each other because it doesn't add any extra undue pressure based on someone's gender. But if the individuals get to know each other, and both are content with old school gender roles, I don't see why it is a "bad" thing. Just like I don't see the problem with a stay at home dad and a career mom (it simply isn't a dynamic that would make me happy, doesn't mean it can't work for someone else). Whatever makes people happy. :)

Title	Going Dutch on Dinner
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	39
Comments	214
Date	October 9, 2012 10:41 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/116umk/going_dutch_on_dinner/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/going-dutch-on-dinner.1011769 https://theredarchive.com/post/1011769

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