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Hmmmm.

friedmozzarellachix

December 13, 2016
1453 upvotes
/r/MensRights
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Post Information
Title Hmmmm.
Author

friedmozzarellachix

Upvotes 1453
Comments 85
Date December 13, 2016 8:49 PM UTC
(9 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/5i63ch/hmmmm/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/hmmmm.935893
https://theredarchive.com/post/935893
Top posts by friedmozzarellachix

Australian University to Hold 'Femenist Bake Sale: "Each baked good will only cost you the proportion of $1.00 - if you are a woman of colour in the legal profession, a baked good at the stall will only cost you 0.55 cents!"

36 upvotes
April 3, 2016
/r/MensRights

Australian 60 Minutes News Crew Arrested and Detained in Lebanon After Documenting Mothers Botched Child Recovery From Childrens Father in Beirut. Mother Arrested, Children Returned to Father.

18 upvotes
April 8, 2016
/r/MensRights

Comments

[–]Leinadro 251 points252 points253 points 9 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

Moral of the story. Its only bad when men do it.

Personally I dont have a problem with either one.

[–]problematic_coagulum 60 points61 points62 points 9 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

I wouldn't want to use a ride-sharing service if that is the kind of person running it, even if I was eligible.

[–]SaiHottari 88 points89 points90 points 9 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Which you're absolutely free to do, boycotting is exactly how you show businesses what you want. If enough people do it, then they lose money. If only a handful do and business is otherwise booming, then clearly there is a market for them. They're as free to specialize as you are to refuse patronage. Welcome to the free market.

[–]Senlathiel 10 points11 points12 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

It's my understanding that a person is free to discriminate, but it is illegal for a business? I think a mixed economy is better than a free market (technically, kids could buy illegal drugs in a free market). What are your thoughts?

[–]NoGardE 28 points29 points30 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

A business is people. The fact they're working together doesn't make them not people. Freedom of association means freedom not so associate as well. You'll find a bunch of Libertarian-minded folks who believe that specific part of the civil rights act is a government overreach.

Kids can buy illegal drugs right now. Laws don't prevent behaviors, they just make them more risky. In places where drugs are legal, or regulated but treated as a health problem instead of a criminal problem, minors do drugs at a lower rate. See Colorado and Portugal. Furthermore, when they're legal, it's easier to enforce standards of quality, through open competition.

[–]SaiHottari 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Thank you, hit the nail on the head.

A transaction is people exchanging goods and services. A business is a larger and more organized collection of transactions. In other words, it's still people exchanging goods and services. They are free to do that, or not do that, with whomever they choose.

[–]MonsterBlash 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Except when they are not, because of current regulations.
Personally, I want to see how well it would go without any IP laws. :-)

[–]SaiHottari 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Experts in sociology and economics seem optimistic. They tend to say it might be rough at times because of brief corporate cronyism, but by and large would do quite a bit better than western countries are doing now.

[–]Demonspawn 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I want to see how well it would go without any IP laws.

Horribly. Why spend money on R&D if someone can just take what you made?

On the other hand, the current IP laws are also horrible. They need to return to reasonable lengths (somewhere in the 10-25 year range) rather than the 100+ years they can last now.

[+][deleted] 9 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

For real, as another eligible member, I would only be interested in using its services if it saves me $$$. Otherwise I'm sticking with Uber. I do feel a little bad for Taxi drivers these days though...

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Fuck taxi drivers, most of them are assholes. If they didn't charge ridiculous fees and weren't assholes this would happen. And now in Chicago where I live they are even more of assholes

[–]1der33 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Wouldn't they miss out on a huge amount of profits for only allowing women to use it?

[–]dungone 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

It's a false equivalence, though. Barber shops offer personal hygiene services that are only relevant to men. It's like having a woman walk into the men's bathroom to take a shit. Taxi services do not offer a service which is gender-specific and they are doing so by sectioning off a public space that used to be gender-neutral (public roads) and claiming it for women only.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

i dunno man. some girls really do need to get their mustache shaved

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

No problem with it either, means safer drivers if you're male.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I see what you did there.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Moral of the story. We all have a duty to bring legal action against anything marketed as "woman only."

[–]cypherreddit 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Personally I dont have a problem with either one.

Cabracadabra Female Driver Rideshare Company demonstrated an issue with the first service

[–]Pz5 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Moral of the story - we live in a female chauvinist civilization.

[–]BookwormJane 70 points71 points72 points 9 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

This is so ridiculous. What would a woman do in a barber's shop anyway? Why are they complaining about this?

[–]jeff_the_nurse 40 points41 points42 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Because they have to let the barbers know how to fix their man's hair. Duh. We're too stupid to know how.

[–]BookwormJane 17 points18 points19 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Just like you guys don't know how to show your emotions, you know nothing about hairstyles either. /s

[–]jeff_the_nurse 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Or dress, bake, cook, et cetera.

[–]SaiHottari 9 points10 points11 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

But hey, at least I can kill spiders and fix my car. I might need that car running when I flee the scene where I burned my house down trying to make a sandwich.

[–]jeff_the_nurse 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Might as well man up, anyway.

[–]ITworksGuys 17 points18 points19 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Because someone told them no.

Women don't like that.

[–]IHazMagics 8 points9 points10 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Chances are they might like the atmosphere more than a salon and want a hair cut. Which sure, that's fine, I know plenty of barbers that will also provide womens hair cuts if they honestly prefer a barber to a salon.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

What's the difference between a hair-cutter at a salon vs a barber?

[–]IHazMagics 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

A barber is more likely to know the hair requirements for men including beard maintenance. A salon won't.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Makes sense. Thanks

[–]l3dg3r 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think that is an important point to consider. Ride sharing isn't really gender specific but when was the last time you saw a woman with a beard? A woman only nail salon is more of an apples to apples comparison. And even if some men would go to a nail salon you can't say it's the same as a ride sharing service.

[–]Firstprime 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I've known a few women with very short hair who were forced to go salons, which are quite a bit more expensive than a barber, because all the barbers in their area refused to cut women's hair. I was skeptical when I heard it first but I've seen if happen in person a few times, and it really didn't seem right. Those barbers would have had no problem cutting those hairstyles if they were on a man.

I'm a man and I've been to a salon before when my hair was quite long. I know I wouldn't have been happy if I'd been refused service based solely on my gender.

I'm not necessarily trying to argue against the men only barber shop here, I just think that "What would a woman do in a barber's shop anyway?" is a pretty weak argument. If we want to have serious discussions about issues like this we need to put some more thought into our arguments.

[–]derpylord143 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"What would a woman do in a barber's shop anyway?" is a pretty weak argument.

it is a weak argument, though i think a more fitting argument is that barbers (who are generally trained solely for servicing men) may not feel confident to work on women, even if said service was similar to mens. i base this on the whole "all the barbers in their area refused to cut women's hair." if it were a matter of being unreasonable, then it would more than likely have been restrained to one barbers shop, or at least one would have allowed their patronage. this suggests there is some other factor (i dont know what) that is causing the barbers to refuse to work on them. one such factor may be the hair itself, as opposed to the styles they are going for (womens hair often under goes a lot more damage due to the products they put in it, such as hair dye). i honestly dont know, but it does suggest something is causing this.

[–]Tmomp 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm not sure if anyone is complaining, but I'd wager if anyone is, it's because they are outraged or offended.

[–]BookwormJane 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If the barber shop has been slammed it is because someone is complaining about it.

[–]yingyangyoung 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I go to barber shops over salons about 95% of the time. I've seen women in them only when they were the barber or they were bringing their son to get a haircut. (And the lady who brought her son said his dad usually brings him in and didn't know what to get)

[–]royalhawk345 19 points20 points21 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Isn't the first one from bojack houseman?

[–]ToddpieceZulu 8 points9 points10 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Boy do I have a great idea for a car service that caters to men.

[–]ttfatfrokz 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, but it's actually happening in real life too now

[–]TommyK154 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

YES I knew it was from some TV show but I couldn't for the life of me remember which one. I literally can't believe its actually a real thing now lol

[+][deleted] 9 years ago* (15 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]lethrowaway4me 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Maybe I don't follow what you're saying, but you think it's okay for the male-only barbershop to exist only if there's a women-only hair salon as well?

[–]IHazMagics 33 points34 points35 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

As long as it's not up to the male only barber to have to provide that alternative.

Since this is 7 News in my country, there are already female only salons, gyms, etc. So for people to be annoyed that there might only be a male only barber is somewhat stupid but really goes back to;

"It's empowering when women do it, it's sexist when men do it"

[–]Cruxius 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Not necessarily a women only one, just one where women can go.

[–]janearcade 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Why now? My University has male and female gym times and it has worked well.

[–]-Fender- 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't mind the separation either, as long as it's done fairly. Too many places have only "Everyone time" and "Women-only times". But if it's equivalent, then fine.

[+]mnfarmboy -17 points-16 points-15 points 9 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

So basically Jim Crow laws for genders instead of race?

[–]TracyMorganFreeman 17 points18 points19 points 9 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Um no jim crow laws explicitly required discrimination.

Allowing for discrimination isn't the same thing.

[+]mnfarmboy -10 points-9 points-8 points 9 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Jim Crows allowed for "Separate but Equal" which is what he is proposing

[–]NOT_A_SENTIENT_DILDO 7 points8 points9 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

So we should just ban the service that caters only to women? Seeing as how the service for men only doesn't exist yet. Cause how it is now is seperate and unequal... which is closer to what Jim Crow is.

Ok seriously is there a legit argument that you have against gender selective taxi services that doesn't bring race into gender issues? Cause it becomes a clusterfuck when you mix them the way you just did.

Cause Jim Crow laws were to "protect the integrity of american life" and other bigoted, shitmouthed, nonsensical drivel. But this is talking about allowing women a safe carpooling service that caters exclusively to them. What is your argument against a different service that does the same for men?

"Cause then it's seperate but equal. And when I say it that way it sounds like jim crow. And sounding like jim crow is bad. And that's all that matters. So your idea is shit cause racism."

And honestly I don't doubt that you'll completely miss the point of what I'm trying to say. That your entire reply will consist of the same argument you spouted off the first two times (jim crow). And all this is assuming you're even willing to read anything that asks you; do you think.... maybe... if someone says "men should be able to have a gender selective ridesharing app/service as well" and all you take away from that is "if I phrase it this way though it's jim crow so rasicm...." maybe you're the one with the problem? Maybe?

So this isn't actually for you. It's for anyone else that's reading that isn't completely taken in by the need to find outrage even where it doesn't exist. It's to tell all those people that the times are a changin. And people don't give a shit if they offend you on accident anymore. When everything is offensive.... nothing is.

[–]mnfarmboy 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

What I don't understand is why people get upset so easily. I'm simply playing devils advocate to provide other view points. I agree with the original comment but everyone on this sub is so closed minded and bigoted a meaningful exchange of ideas is impossible.

[–]Anonymous924 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The reason Jim crows was removed was because separate but equal was separate but not equal.

[–]FeierInMeinHose 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Playing devils advocate requires actually putting forth a logical, intellectually honest argument, yours was terrible and not put forth in good faith and he ripped it to shreds anyway. It's also telling that before anyone can actually have a discussion you call the entirety of this sub bigoted and close-minded.

[–]Fermit 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

everyone on this sub is so closed minded and bigoted a meaningful exchange of ideas is impossible

Let's examine

second most upvoted comment in article is how catering to a specific gender in your business is fine as long as it's possible for both sides to have access to equal quality services

You weren't playing devil's advocate and saying that you were doesn't suddenly make you seem like your argument has merit. A devil's advocate introduces a seperate but equally valid viewpoint so that it too can be taken into consideration. You just made a false equivalency between the subject matter and a taboo subject. That's neither a valid viewpoint nor a relevant one. You weren't looking for a meaningful exchange of ideas, all you did was say "Jim Crow Laws" twice and didn't expand in any way how the two are equivalent. You were baiting. That's all.

What I don't understand is why people get upset so easily

Maybe we didn't get upset by your "other viewpoint", maybe we got upset by your completely irrelevant, sensationalist, and fallacious comparison. I can't speak for everyone else here but it also pissed me off how once you got ripped a new asshole your reaction wasn't to own up to your mistake, it was just to try to deflect by claiming devil's advocate.

[–]TracyMorganFreeman 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No, they enshrined into law "Separate but Equal", and were found to be constitutional initially provided they were equal. They were struck down when they ended up not being so.

[–]Leinadro 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thats not how Jim Crow worked.

Jim Crow worked by making it illegal to run a business to a mixed customer base.

For this to be Jim Crow it would have to be a ride service that tried to serve men and women but was required to serve only men or women by law.

[–]PotatoDonki 20 points21 points22 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The overall reaction to this is certainly hypocritical, and the double standard is there, but I don't necessarily see hypocrisy from the news station itself.

[–]ThtDAmbWhiteGuy 13 points14 points15 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I was about to say the same thing. Both stories appear to be covered, but there was no backlash against the female only ride service. Therefore, the same kind of news story can't be written for both.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Agreed. They just asked what people thought, didn't really spin it as necessarily negative. Just that there's some backlash over it. And that's actually the entire reason it's being reported on in the first place, the "controversy" around it is why it's now news.

[–]FrismFrasm 15 points16 points17 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I mean to be fair that FB page didn't pick a side, they just reported that the barbershop thing was being debated by people.

[–]darwinsaves 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's almost like one group of people feel more special than the other.

[–]p3ngwin 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

been tried many times before, and failed.

E.G.
"Your Taxi" for females only, run by females, closed shop before it even began, only finding 100 of the 500 drivers needed to be viable.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2756793/App-helps-women-NYC-taxis-driven-women.html

Women simply aren't interested in dirty, dangerous, and boring jobs, yet are quite happy to let men do them.

then women complain about "equality" in the top CEO positions, salary gaps, etc.

[–]MCMXCIV0 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Its like when you tell a child they cant have something and all of a sudden they throw a tantrum because they "need" it.

[–]jeff_the_nurse 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ah, patriarchy...right.

[–]ManicSancho 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What if I look like a man but identify as a woman?

[–]Locomoco1 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I went to that barber place was so sad once I found out the feminists won that battle

[–]Vanriel 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ah the joys of double standards.

[–]Mythandros 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Honestly.. I believe if you are going to gender segregate, it should be done fairly.

Ride sharing for women only? Fine, so long as there is also a male only version.

This is fair.

In other words, the media is full of sexism and hypocrisy.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think they should be allowed, not required. If you allow a female only gym, allow a male only gym. etc But you can't force a person to open two business for two sets of clientele just because they saw a niche they wanted to fill. And you can't just not let Person A open a female only business until you find another person to open a male only version.

Unless it's government funded or something.

[+][deleted] 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]double-happiness 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I reckon in the next 5-10 years you are going to see 'women only' or possibly 'women and children only' areas in public venues like clubs, bars, pubs, cafes, etc. Calling it now. It's already beginning [two links].

[–]fanglord 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Posting from /all - There's a barber shop in Manchester, UK that has a men only rule and no one cares. Contrary to what people believe there's very few places that are boys clubs left, it's nice just to have a beer while you're waiting and not have to worry about social etiquette.

[–]ExpendableOne 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

One relies on a sexist presumption that all women are at risk and all men are not(or that men's safety doesn't matter). One relies on the assumption that their customer base wants the type of hair cut they specialize in.

[–]Brandwein 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yea, but women don't have the privelege to get female-only hair saloons. But men have all the cars, so women need a personal taxi. I don't get why it isn't free though.

[–]Dieselpoweredsybian 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

http://www.sfwsalon.com/

http://www.curves.com/

http://news.nike.com/news/new-nike-experience-store-in-newport-beach-california-combines-best-of-women-s-products-with-fitness-studio

Just a few woman's only places I am familiar with off the top of my head. Too bad guys don't give a shit.

[–]Lumberingfeather 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Women can go fuck off out of the MRM let alone barber shops.

[–]ianiemasns 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Can't you understand that women just want equality, and that means that things can be offered to women and not men, but never in the reverse? That's how equality works because they say so!

[+]FuckedByCrap -14 points-13 points-12 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

The ride share app is for safety. Women are raped and killed by strange men all the time. If women coming into a barbershop and raping and killing men becomes a problem, then we can talk. Until then, you're just throwing a tantrum.

[–]zfighter18 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Men are killed by strange men all the time

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Saying "hmmm" in response to a picture, is throwing a tantrum? Fascinating.

And really? "All the time"? In the scope of things, it's not very common. It happening doesn't mean it's some epidemic that necessitates "protection" from. Particularly when men are victims of street violence more often than women are.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And really? "All the time"?

As you typed that 500 women were killed. /s

[+]unbuttoned -15 points-14 points-13 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

There is a legitimate argument to be made here that a gender-exclusive ridesharing service has some advantages in womens' safety while the male-only barbershop is a matter of comfort. It is a double standard, but one with some claim to reasonableness.

[–]PotatoDonki 11 points12 points13 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

But are men stronger than women or not? Feminist change their answer to this question as a matter of convenience.

[–]unbuttoned -4 points-3 points-2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Men are physically stronger than women, who have, on average, less total muscle mass, both in absolute terms and relative to total body mass. Not sure what point you're driving at here?

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