Is the MRM going to know when to quit?

allworkandlowpay · 2013-09-22T05:48:47+00:00

There's an important thing to remember regarding the differences between the MRM and the modern Feminist movement: Business.

The Feminist movement has grown into a very large business. It's philosophies are used by universities to gain new students to invest in B.S. majors, activists and public advocacy groups get sponsors, donations and payment for air time. There is a financial investment to find a way to get on tv and be heard. If you get paid by concocting controversy, you will find controversies to concoct.

The MRM does not have that -- at the moment. IF they ever gain a similar status, I would venture that these same issues would be present in the MRM.

reluctantreddituser · 2013-09-22T05:33:39+00:00

Perhaps the fact that these problems still exist is the only glue holding this movement together. Once the issues become solved, the men will leave the movement, and it will lose steam naturally.

I hope this happens.

Benthazaal · 2013-09-22T07:29:34+00:00

I believe it will stop before it gets too stupid, we aren't an -ism, we are a movement with a rigid name and set of goals, a men's rights activist is someone who believe the rights of men have been neglected and wishes to see that rectified, a feminist believes..... what ever that particular feminist wants to believe.

tectonic9 · 2013-09-22T21:27:13+00:00

I break MRA topics into 3 categories: legal objectives, social critique, and struggle against biological implications.

Most MRA legal objectives are moderate egalitarian ideas - equal treatment under the law and equal opportunity. Those are pretty straightforward and until you get into craziness like disparate impact law, they have an end-point. You also have issues that perhaps ought to be recast as men's rights issues, such as prison reform and workplace safety. Prison reform in particular will be a difficult, long-term task.
legal objectives: MRA goals are moderate and concrete with observable endpoints

There are cultural issues that MRAs raise that are about double-standards and social biases - for example, the near-universal media trope of the bumbling father, or the journalistic superlative "the wounded included women and children." While an MRA might feel inclined to play some role in cultural critique, I don't think I've seen any MRA advocate censorship of any kind. That differs from the principles that feminists take in attempting to silence and smear and dox and harass when they encounter something distasteful to their current views. I'm optimistic that we'll retain this reasonableness while still retaining the energy to criticize some of society's demeaning or inaccurate attitudes.
social critique: MRA methods of engagement are criticism and dialogue, not censorship and character assassination

Finally, there's biology. This is where you run into red-pill territory. Eggs are expensive, sperm are cheap. Females are the limiting factor in reproduction. Gestation is internal in female mammals. There are a whole lot lot of unfair things that flow from this, such as male disposability, sexual dimorphism, women as the "prize" that men must earn or compete for, gestation as something more under a woman's control than a man's, etc. These are not things to be enshrined in law, and there are individuals who reject these patterns in their own lives. But fighting the current of biology is not a goal that will have an ending point. I don't think that's the fight that MRAs are waging. It sounds more like the red-pill realm, and those guys aren't fighting the world, they're working on acceptance and tactical adjustment.
biological implications: MRAs may complain that biology's unfair, but fighting biology is not the MRA aim

blueoak9 · 2013-09-23T17:01:50+00:00

"Would the movement know when it's time to step down? Or will it go the way of Third-Wave Feminism?"

If it does not become anyone's day job the way Third Wave Feminism has, then no, it won't go the same way.

Institutions eat movements and take on a life of their own that has to be fed one way or another, ususally by inventing ever more new issues.

Pornography_saves_li · 2013-09-22T15:06:25+00:00

The MRM, being focused on Legal and Rights issues, for the most part, has a built-in obsolescence. Our goals actually line up with a Libertarian-type perspective, meaning we do not want to dictate to others how they should think or feel, nor do we attempt to muzzle 'hate speech'. Free society, rights end at the tip of my nose, that sort of thing.

The idea here is not to try and socially engineer society. Being aware of cultural misandry and being able to do a damned thing about it, are totally different things. We will never change the disposability of males, we CAN make it legally difficult to do so in a wanton manner, though. We can't make women like 'nice guys' any more than they can make us like loud, fat, short haired man haters, but we CAN cut off the financial support for Single Motherhood and make women feel the repurcussions of their actions (and no, 'society' does not have an obligation to the children of such women - although forced adoption might become necessary if there's too much poverty).

We cannot tell people what their morality should be, but we can demand equal rights and treatment (ie, morality applied consistently, if not felt consistently) - so, for example, whichever stance on abortion one might have, one cannot deny this right is extended to only one sex, based on sex. This should be illegal, whichever side of the abortion divide one lands upon.

If the MRM strays outside of these logical boundaries (ie. - society should be 'engineered' aka Political Correctness), that is the time to worry about it becoming another perpetual revolution.

intensely_human · 2013-09-22T15:25:59+00:00

The simple answer is "no". The MRM will not know when to quit. There has never existed, in the history of mankind, a single organization which disbanded itself when its task was complete.

That I know of, at least. If someone can link to an organization which dismantled itself voluntarily, at any point in time in any place, then I'll revise my view.

Until we see that, I think it's safe to assume the MRM will, like all other human endeavors, sour eventually.

Demonspawn · 2013-09-22T06:40:39+00:00

men are seen as non-disposable;

And the sky stops being blue....

Look, if that's what you think the MRM is or should be about then you can relax about "knowing when to quit" because you've chosen impossible goals.

eggilicious · 2013-09-22T10:26:43+00:00

No. Any social movement will have a certain percentage of extremists and careerists. As the movement achieves more the percentage of this people increase as less moderates are attracted to the movement as the need isnt as great. These sort of people can never be satisfied and will continue to see victimhood and oppression where none exists

texas_ironman93 · 2013-09-22T19:51:13+00:00

Maybe it's just me, but I see this as a "cross that bridge when we get there." situation. It's good to consciously remember to stay vigilant that we don't become a perpetual movement always looking for something to be mad about even after all the issues have been solved, but that's not the situation. Maybe that should be the goal of our movement. As in our ideal situation is one where we're not needed, where the goal of feminism was that everyone be a feminist.

guywithaccount · 2013-09-22T23:03:29+00:00

Would the movement know when it's time to step down?

I don't know, but surely we must find out the hard way.

giegerwasright · 2013-09-23T00:23:13+00:00

If they don't, they'll find that my blade has two edges. And quite a few more.

ChaseMB · 2013-09-23T03:40:28+00:00

It could go from complaining and venting to a really fun sub. Maybe post about the manly thing I did today. I don't know. Just food for thought.

iMADEthis2post · 2013-09-25T02:50:56+00:00

People are scum both male and female, I imagine gender discussion will continue for many thousands of years but as a rights movement I'm hoping we achieve legal equality within the next hundred or so, for both genders naturally. Externalised feminism needs to be abolished and a male equivalent should not be allowed to emerge either.

anonlymouse · 2013-09-22T06:00:32+00:00

I think so, since we're an actual rights movement, while feminism was a female supremacy movement from the start. It had rights advocates attach to it for a while, and once the goals were achieved, they left the movement.

Number357 · 2013-09-22T06:14:21+00:00

One big difference I notice between MRAs and feminists: MRAs tend to be much more STEM and econ minded. Not to offend the other majors, but... MRA's are more rational and logical. Feminism has largely been promoted by people who don't know how to think. That's not the case with MRAs. So I don't think we'll have the same problems, no.

Pecanpig · 2013-09-22T16:30:36+00:00

We shall have to see.

Honestly I'm just hoping that we don't go as overkill as Feminism has.

That being said this movement didn't start out as a "give me free shit" movement, it's been "She has the right to X? I should have that to." from the beginning so I think the odds of shit really hitting the fan are pretty low.

rightsbot · 2013-09-22T04:56:20+00:00

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2013-09-22T08:32:08+00:00

Let's worry about that when we get there. :)

geengaween · 2013-09-22T18:08:40+00:00

Great question. My opinion is that ideologies behave like living organisms with a survival mechanism. I think like all ideologies it will find ways to continue it's existence even when it's no longer needed.

2013-09-23T04:10:01+00:00

Man, aren't jumping the gun a bit with this question?

Title	Is the MRM going to know when to quit?
Author	JeremyKean
Upvotes	16
Comments	51
Date	September 22, 2013 4:55 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1mvoni/is_the_mrm_going_to_know_when_to_quit/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/is-the-mrm-going-to-know-when-to-quit.1163230 https://theredarchive.com/post/1163230

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