Think there's a reason there are more MtF transgenders than FtM

retraction_helix · 2021-08-15T04:41:19+00:00

I suspect you only hear about mtf more because no one cares about men including trans men

ThrowawayGhostGuy1 · 2021-08-14T16:21:46+00:00

Ask any FtM and they’ll tell you how much tougher it is.

0ofs · 2021-08-14T18:02:45+00:00

i see a lot more MtF being pushed and i always thought it was a means of emasculating men

MicrosCringe · 2021-08-14T17:10:15+00:00

[permanently deleted]

B_P_G · 2021-08-14T18:08:30+00:00

I think gender dysphoria has everything to do with brain chemistry and genetics and nothing to do with how men are treated in our society. As to why MtF outnumber FtM: I'm neither a neuroscientist nor a geneticist so I don't have an answer for you there.

MarsNirgal · 2021-08-14T18:28:02+00:00

ARe you sure there are more? Or simply more visible? FtM trans people barely get talked about or discussed, so it may be simply that you believe there's less of them because they don't get any mental space in society.

Dr__Unicorn · 2021-08-14T22:32:05+00:00

I really don't think any of this is societal. MtF outnumber FtM by between 2-5x depending on study and region of the world. The ratios would suggest genetic cause.

If you look at the role of testorone on the foetal brain, unsurprisingly it has far less involvement in women than men. Ergo there is far more scope for errors in men.

I've seen some interesting hypothesising that foetal testorone problems could be causative for trans identity and therefore it does explain why FtM is much rarer than MtF.

With that said, your observations that MtF allows men to transition to a far more privileged and protected class are not wrong either.

And for absolute clarity everything I said is conjecture. Nobody has a definitive answer to this question and I don't expect one in our lifetimes.

Ciaran_Half-Barrel · 2021-08-15T09:25:45+00:00

I think the reason as to why is because in the womb fetuses begin as "proto-females", thus more chances of MtF instead of FtM

wasta19 · 2021-08-15T02:35:02+00:00

People don’t transition for an easier life, they transition because they feel different.

prelude12342000 · 2021-08-14T19:02:30+00:00

One word…Benefits…

2021-08-14T19:59:15+00:00

Countdown by Dr Shana Swan has a fascinating chapter pointing to the possibility that the increase of toxic load in our ecosystems is contributing to a very real hormonal dysfunction.

pyrolover6666 · 2021-08-15T00:54:39+00:00

Source?

spidercummerw · 2021-08-15T17:12:04+00:00

No thats not how this works being trans was my problem of i was a cis guy i wouldnt have this many social problems so no, also being trans is even worse than being cis your logic is just kinda whack.

So yeah you wont get the trans cause of the society its just how life works and some people are just trans.

Svenskbtch · 2021-08-16T11:40:29+00:00

I had the same thought, though I remember being surprised that the phenomenon was not as pronounced as I thought (something like 30 70) when I checked a long time ago.

I think the driving reason is not as much the degree of discrimination as the limitations of the female versus the male gender role. Although things are changing fast, it is, I think, harder to be a sissy male than a butch woman. Both do not fit in; the sissy (tongue-in-cheek, not meant as pejorative) has a harder time growing up and faces more and different censure.

But then again, is it not much harder to create an artificial, functioning penis than a vagina? Are there not medical reasons involved? Sorry, this is a topic where my lack of knowledge is woefully embarrassing.

Sly_Snake_Master · 2021-08-17T15:07:16+00:00

I'd say there's the same amount of FTMs and MTFs. It's just that we get talked about less, and are more likely to pass early on in our transitions, and choose to be stealth. People don't notice us. Hell even I forget I'm trans sometimes. I just think of myself as a guy, y'know?

manicraccoon · 2021-08-14T17:51:13+00:00

Don't know. Maybe both trans men and women are almost equal in numbers. can't say for sure. It's definitely not the societal privileges. I'll be honest with you. Gender dysphoria is a bitch. Though won't deny that there are some "transtrenders". Though those are only few. In my country life is usually shit if you are trans.

DavidByron2 · 2021-08-14T16:42:09+00:00

or do you just believe than gender dysphoria is more common in males?

You know that's a bad way of putting it, right? If you woke up tomorrow with your body a different sex I assume you wouldn't think "my memories got changed to make me think I used to be a different sex!" People identify as the sex their brain/mind is not their body -- where there is a discrepancy. People intuit that the mind is the thing and the body is a "shell". Therefore what you're asking is,

or do you just believe than gender dysphoria is more common in male bodies / people identified as male at birth?

At any rate maybe? I think they're just now starting to figure it out.

The male and female brain have structural differences,” he says. Men and women tend to have different volumes in certain areas of the brain. “When we look at the transgender brain, we see that the brain resembles the gender that the person identifies as,” Dr. Altinay says. For example, a person who is born with a penis but ends up identifying as a female often actually has some of the structural characteristics of a “female” brain.

And the brain similarities aren’t only structural. “We’re also finding some functional similarities between the transgender brain and its identified gender,” Dr. Altinay says. In studies that use MRIs to take images of the brain as people perform tasks, the brain activity of transgender people tends to look like that of the gender they identify with.

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/research-on-the-transgender-brain-what-you-should-know/

There's a hugely complex biological process whereby a single cell become a baby. It's not just DNA involved. The distribution of a large list of chemicals (proteins) prompts or hinders the production of other proteins using the DNA as a factory. All stable cell types represent stable movements within the distributions of a sort of multi-dimensional graph of protein density. If you have too much of this or not enough of that chemical (protein) at various points in the process it can throw you off the usual pathway or change what sex the process "thinks" the baby is supposed to be. Most deviations from the regular pathways will be bad or terminal. Some very rare few would be benign. Others are just sort of neutral. Since the brain is mostly developed several weeks after the rest of the body gets it's basics down, there's plenty of time for some anomalous distribution of proteins to reverse course on the sex identification thing. I would guess that's what will turn out to be the case, but nobody seems to know yet.

So it might very well turn out that an embryo running down the standard "male chassis" pathway is easy to knock off course and end up with a female sexed brain, but the opposite way around is harder to happen. That could easily be true; there's no need to assume symmetry here.

Or yeah it could be there's just as many FTM out there but for social reasons they don't identify as trans so much as MTF.

pete7201 · 2021-08-14T22:23:39+00:00

It depends on why they are switching their gender.

Most of them I’ve encountered aren’t dysphoric at all, they are either just attention seekers, or what I call transcels. The ones that are genuine, I’m not sure. I’ve always thought it was a medical condition but it could be a problem with society being increasingly discriminatory towards men

CominSense20 · 2021-08-14T17:25:19+00:00

A mediocre male (sex)athlete can identify as female (gender) and suddenly become an elite female athlete as occurred at the girl’s New England regional meet a few years ago. The reverse isn’t true.

oreolaw99 · 2021-08-15T09:50:38+00:00

So I am a trans-Women so I have to talk to many trans-men and I can tell you what you’re saying there is not really the reason or even true. So there’s probably a equal amount of trans-women and Trans-men it’s just it’s very difficult for a trans-woman to keep her past a secret so it’s safe for us to be out and proud about being trans-women but trans-men on the other hand it is easier for them to keep their past a secret them to be out and proud about being transgender. Mainly because a trans-woman is normally seen as a pervert which is horrible but a trans-man is normally seen as Lost or delusional. So a lot of cis women have told me “why would a woman want to become a man man I dirty pervert’s so No good respecting women would want to be a man” so you see why A lot of trans-men are not active in the community and do not actively call themselves transgender.

reddut_gang · 2021-08-14T16:31:26+00:00

Ehhh no. The transgender people I know have told me it's just they feel like they are living in the wrong body. I seldom think it's about sexism. Furthermore I don't think it's reliable to say they have seen "both sides of the coin" and use their view as fact. The transgender people I know tell me they are a lot happier after transitioning, both mtf and ftm. I mean it makes sense. You spend your whole life trapped now you are finally free.

MicrosCringe · 2021-08-14T16:17:32+00:00

Sounds like terf rhetoric but reversed. Gender dysphoria has nothing to do with stereotypes, gender roles and privilege

Neko404 · 2021-08-14T22:32:44+00:00

There have been FtM transitions that have come out and given their story about how much it sucks now that they are identified as men.

Nateno2149 · 2021-08-14T23:13:47+00:00

Who the hell are your friends if you show emotion and they lose respect for you?

Potens_Loqui · 2021-08-14T17:16:38+00:00

Personally I think it's because of gender dysphoria and porn addiction altering your fetishes and orientations

FatherGascOwn · 2021-08-15T11:09:28+00:00

The cold, hard truth is that MtF makes life easier, FtM makes it harder. Just look at the MtF athlete at the Olympics, which is a travesty for women's sports.

Honestly, I think this world is fucked up, and we as men (especially straight, white males) are getting fucked harder than anyone else. The more I see what Biden is doing in the US and how some European countries (and for once I am happy that Italy be so conservative) are following the feminazi rhetoric as well, I'm feel a really dismal future be upon us.

Aqedah · 2021-08-14T21:47:55+00:00

No. This argument is the same as saying that people are lgbt+ because of some trauma in their life.

2021-08-14T17:14:11+00:00

Nah, there are probably equal numbers.

ohmygoshimdrowning · 2021-08-15T02:38:40+00:00

I'm of the belief that the feminization of men has led gay men, who would not necessarily be MtF, to transition in order to fit in with a social cultural model.

To add on, for some reason I meet a TON of gay men, a very minor amount of lesbians, and a large amount of "bisexual" women.

This world is fucked.

marigoldilox · 2021-08-14T23:48:35+00:00

Looks they're actually about equal now! Though I suppose one reason why there may have been more MtF trans people in the past is because of media representation. Even though it's horrid, paints them as evil, and are often mentioned in the actual media as not being actually trans, I can think of Psycho, Silence of the Lambs, and Rocky Horror that show what would more closely resemble MtF people today, but cannot recall as prominent FtM figures in media. Though it wasn't nice, it still meant that people could look at it and realise that being trans was an option, but reall only MtF people, if that makes sense!

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33644314/

Zeno1441 · 2021-08-15T20:41:12+00:00

Yes, as a woman I've been saying this for years. MtF/FtM rate difference is mostly because being a man is shit.

Their existence is attacked since childhood, their identities are destroyed meanwhile we put anything a random bitch does on a golden pedestal. I find it amazing how we saw "frat boy" culture as something to be destroyed, meanwhile nowadays we encourage women to act like "frat boys".

At this point I'm fairly sure in society's views, everything is better if a woman does it, so no wonder low self esteem men want to be women. My best friend said I had won the "gender lottery" when I was 16 and wanting to kill myself over stupid problems, and 5 years later I started seeing what he meant lol.

Filthy_italian · 2021-08-14T23:10:56+00:00

Ah yes,now people become another gender just because they're slightly discriminated.If that was the case there wouldn't be trans people at all.

art-hollywood · 2021-08-14T16:57:32+00:00

I like most of the things I see on this sub but this one is borderline incel...

AccomplishedTiger327 · 2021-08-14T22:47:24+00:00

Mtf transition because they didn't have a positive male role model involved in their life. Ftm transition because they believe men have it easier in life. Other reasons probably but that's what I can think of

Goodnt_name · 2021-08-14T22:10:38+00:00

FtM have it differently, because they know the life of a transman, and not a bio man.

Legacy60 · 2021-08-15T14:19:39+00:00

there an equal number on both subreddits so i’m pretty sure it’s 50/50 if anyone cared to do a poll. In reality there isn’t more mtf because nobody ever talks about ftm. Popular tv programs dating back to the 50’s have only ever depicted trans women, so you might confuse there being more instead of having more representation in media (albeit even in a negative light).

Jmh1881 · 2021-08-16T19:17:42+00:00

So here's the thing- testosterone is much more powerful than estrogen. Trans men who have medically transitioned blend into the crowd much more easily as regular run of the mill men. For trans women, not so much. Mostly because of their facial structure and voice which does not change on estrogen.

Additionally, trans women are seen as much more controversial than trans men. No one really gives a fuck if a trans man plays in mems sports or foes to the men's bathroom, but when it comes to trans women playing women's sports and going into the women's bathroom that's when people get upset because of "biological advantages", and because they assume males are predatory.

So there really aren't more trans women than men, they're just a lot easier to spot and discussed in media way more frequently

SgllsTaklnDux · 2021-08-18T06:27:26+00:00

That used to be true, but now FtM sharply outnumber MtF. It's a social craze.

Rosa_Rojacr · 2021-08-18T22:33:02+00:00

Think there's a reason there are more MtF transgenders than FtM

There's literally not. Stop lying just to drag us into your shitty MRA politics.

According to the 2015 US Transgender Survey:

https://transequality.org/sites/default/files/docs/usts/USTS-Full-Report-Dec17.pdf

According to page 44:

32% of respondents were trans women (MTF)

31% of respondents were trans men (FTM)

(the rest being non-binary)

There's pretty much equal number of trans men to trans women, with there being only a 1% difference according to the survey.

Criket · 2021-08-29T21:36:03+00:00

When a woman become a man, she lost all her freebies, support and privileges... then realized that she treated as a potential rapist and lost her freedom of speech, as we are all. Here is about the only place left for men to speak and we still get harassment from feminists and whites knights simp.

Weary-Addendum5832 · 2021-09-08T10:31:33+00:00

I think everyone's different , I hid for a very very long time , that's like asking why is the sky blue like you have masc men fem men lesbians butch lesbians, me I am a gay dad man who likes girls I've always felt that way seen myself as a man , I think theirs many others out their like me it's just not easy for them to shine 😜 ftm 😜🙂

Rupee_Roundhouse · 2021-11-03T16:55:43+00:00

What's your source that there are more MTF transgender people than FTM? In my experience, I see way more FTM—I'd guesstimate maybe 10-20 times more—and I live in hyper-liberal California.

eden-deez-nuts · 2021-08-14T19:29:13+00:00

the reason men are expected to not be emotional is because of the patriarchy.

Milo96S · 2021-08-14T23:38:59+00:00

Gender Dysphoria is often linked to autism which is more common in males. Mental health differentials between sexes are mostly biological and then only exasperated by social pressures.

I've seen equal amounts of MtF and Ftm saying it was easier after they transitioned, but it's probably easier finding positive MtF stories purely cause there's more MtF's overall.

Hot_Cheek_6151 · 2021-08-14T23:21:12+00:00

No.

To begin with, the actual numbers are pretty hard to get. A lot of trans people never come out, and as there's more acceptance there's actually been a lot more natal females who identify as trans. It could be the case that trans women have just been more likely to identify themselves.

Secondly, to gain whatever social advantage may exist for being a woman, for the most part you'd need to pass as a woman, which is pretty unfeasible for most people born male. There are things transition doesn't change: height, hand/foot size, bone structure. And there's a lot that will only change with a huge amount of work and/or money - e.g. voice. Nonpassing trans women get the worst of both worlds, they don't get the natural respect normally given to men because they look nothing like a paragon of masculinity, and they don't get the social sympathy afforded to women. Indeed if a man wants to escape the predator stereotype men have he'd been in for a rude awakening when he finds out that transphobes are every day tossing around the talking point than trans women are just 'men who want to invade women's spaces'.

Thirdly, if it's the mere *perception* that the opposite gender has it better, then well idk about you but I see many more women bemoaning how much better men have it than the reverse. So regardless of who does or doesn't actually have it better, I'd honestly expect this trend to go in the opposite direction of what you propose. I actually read a detrans story about a woman who transitioned so she wouldn't have to put up with mysogyny (but detransitioned because she isn't trans); I personally haven't encountered the reverse.

Lastly it's just not better to be a trans women than a cis man. It's a huge financial burden - on the order of 10's of thousands of dollars, it leads to social ostracization, renders you infertile, makes dating hell, and there's the constant threat of becoming a hate crime story. Any man looking for an easy out for his station in life would catch on to this pretty quick. You should try thinking what it would be like to make this decision. Consider that you actually wanted to transition to get out of being a man, draw up that plan and ask if the benefits would really outweigh the costs. Unless you have a lot of gender dysphoria i.e. you are trans, it's just not rational to make that decision.

I don't doubt this ever happens, but it's just not a common trans experience.

Title	Think there's a reason there are more MtF transgenders than FtM
Author	1007Con
Upvotes	220
Comments	164
Date	August 14, 2021 4:11 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/p4auyb/think_theres_a_reason_there_are_more_mtf/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/think-theres-a-reason-there-are-more-mtf.1058567 https://theredarchive.com/post/1058567

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