This subreddit is turning into a politically correct wuss-fest.

jmnzz · 2011-12-10T04:18:27+00:00

I disagree.

As the past year has shown us, the MRM can achieve successes when we present our arguments intelligently and reasonably, and when we avoid doing and saying things that will allow our critics to simply dismiss us as a bunch of embittered woman-haters.

Allowing the movement to become one big raving, misogynistic circlejerk will only ensure that the movement forever remains on the fringes of obscurity. There's a difference between being "politically correct" and keeping our discussions civil and rational. If /MR tolerates discussions and submissions of the "women are all a bunch of cunts" variety, then we only prove our detractors right, and we can be easily dismissed.

Feminism is our enemy, not women. Let's make sure that no outside observer is ever confused about that point.

bassgoonist · 2011-12-10T07:41:18+00:00

Yeah! The only way we can prove our worth is talking about our testicles! Calling in to question the quality of another man's reproductive organs is clearly the best way to show how much of a 'real man' you are.

2011-12-10T07:59:56+00:00

If there is such a thing as "woman logic", I certainly don't want to see men using it.

If you can stand up for your beliefs and be civil about it, you have my respect.

But if you're an asshole, no matter what your message is, you're still an asshole.

Il128 · 2011-12-10T12:49:05+00:00

Your people skills need some work, Prowomanantifeminist.

Legolas-the-elf · 2011-12-10T18:52:59+00:00

Stop questioning and criticizing every single fucking thing REAL activists at AVFM are doing.

Action is not in itself inherently laudable.

Let's scale it up: if an MRA thought that it would be a good idea to enslave women, would you demand that people not criticise him because at least he's doing something? Or would you think "hang on, this is wrong"?

Well when some MRAs post stupid and/or sexist things, it's not as bad as the above example, but it's still wrong, and it's still idiotic to bite our tongues for the same reason. Just because they are doing something, it doesn't make what they are doing right. Something doesn't become less bigoted just because you got your feelings hurt by some feminist. That's not being "PC feminist-appeaing", that's simply rejecting bad behaviour from a community.

If somebody says bigoted things, then they are fair game for criticism. If everything they say is bigoted, then they should GTFO.

Stop making excuses for bigots and misandrists.

Criticising bigotry is not "making excuses". Stop making excuses for bigots and misogynists.

One of the worst things about feminism is that they won't speak out against the sexists in their midst. And you want it to be the same for the MRM? All you are doing is justifying the prejudice against MRAs. You're making one of the things you are complaining about worse.

AryoBarzan · 2011-12-10T05:14:54+00:00

Alright, here's the deal.

I agree that we should NOT cater to feminist-inspired political correctness. We should not hinder others from calling out particular individuals out on what they are. However, there also needs to be a certain level of professionalism for the MRM to gain widespread popularity and acceptance into society. By professionalism, I mean logical, consistent arguments that aren't 100% riddled with curse words. With that being said, I believe the word 'cunt' should be used much more often in reference to women that are just that by men/women in general.

One thing I will point out since I've been an MRA is that it is absolutely stunning that we are nearly 28,000 people! And thats just on this subreddit on the internet. Think about how many more there are out there? We are not really a 'tiny' group of people fighting anymore (although, I'm certain 17 years ago you all were) for our egalitarian rights.

I also have to give you major props and pay homage to a founding father like yourself for fighting for mens rights at a time when feminism had the entire Western society in its grasp. Every year, I see more and more MRA's, men's issues being brought to light and a decrease in feminists and the popularity of feminism. Thank you for everything you've done to benefit this movement.

memymineown · 2011-12-10T05:14:38+00:00

You are being defeatist.

It seems that a large reason of why the Men's Rights Movement is not so popular is that people see it as a bunch of angry men. If we want to get anywhere(and to get anywhere we have to get more support) we need to recruit the people who obviously agree with us but haven't joined the movement.

How do we do this? By seeming less angry. Our anger is justified but it drives away people who would otherwise be our partners.

You need to ask yourself, what do you want out of the Men's Rights Movement?

Do you want it to be a self righteous circle jerk without accomplishing any real victories(as it is now)?

Or do you want to actually make this a better world for Men and boys?

aetheralloy · 2011-12-10T08:57:38+00:00

I tend to support radicalization because...

Everytime I've tried to engage other reddits/groups - they are quick to pretend to converse and then even quicker to find reasons to ban once they realize their own stereotypes of MRA's are falling apart. This has happened with /r/feminisms, /r/anarchism, /r/shitredditsays - I'm banned in all of them and not for trolling or offensive comments. It is simply for being an MRA.

That's the response we get when we try to meet them halfway. That's the result of being moderate - they ban.

So I tend to support radicalization, because it is the only way to get any inertia. If you play fair, if you try to actually converse logically, if you try to be respectful - they'll take advantage of that and force you out the moment they lose an argument. We don't get anywhere by trying to be respectful with them, because that respect isn't reciprocated. I understand now this is a pattern. Engage the MRA's, debate the at first, ban them shortly after, continue attacking the strawmen version of them. They are radicalized and intolerant against us first.

I'm opposed to violence, but at the same time we shouldn't be muzzling ourselves - they are all too ready to do that for us.

We aren't going to get anywhere by asking misandrists nicely for change.

carniemechanic · 2011-12-10T03:54:22+00:00

That's some fine reasoning and self expression, Mr. Pro.

TheyCalledMeMad · 2011-12-10T05:13:34+00:00

Yeah.

I've seen a few comments on r/MR along these same lines, and each time I've started trying to tell myself it wasn't the case, but it's getting more difficult to keep doing that. Being politically correct will help to attract people to the idea of MRA's being reasonable and on the right track when it comes to blatant and pervasive misandry - but it will take away from the point of it all.

Excuses are being made in an effort to avoid offending people. Explanations are made until it turns out that it's really just men's fault for the problems that exist.

Not All Women Are Like That - yeah, we get that. But many of them are, so many that we keep having these horror stories about the crimes they're getting away with and the scars they keep leaving on men. These stories keep happening. They're not all like that, but how many have to be before we stop making excuses for them?

I'm trying to articulate more on this - but I think I'd just end up echoing what you've already said and said well. We're turning in to White Knights here. This is frustrating.

neurorex · 2011-12-10T05:25:35+00:00

i'm fairly new here but i subscribed to this subreddit because i believe in EVERYONE being treated fairly and equally, so does my girlfriend. i know i don't speak for everyone, but to me it seems that being a men's activist and being an asshole can be mutually exclusive and still achieve the overall objective you/I/we strive for. name calling, vulgarity, 'angry" reactions seem to be counter productive for the "movement". i say the same thing to my friends when we debate religion or politics. if you can't have a logical, calm conversation on a topic then i just won't talk to you anymore.

Torquemada1970 · 2011-12-16T09:18:56+00:00

Because reducing it all down to 'us vs. them' always works out so well for anyone, anywhere

JeremiahMRA · 2011-12-10T03:56:39+00:00

Political correctness is a direct enemy to men's rights. They want us to either fall in line or shut up. Pay special attention to politically correct double standards that claim one group is always an oppressor and another group is always a victim, and that the "oppressor" group needs to shut the hell up and stop whining.

2011-12-10T04:02:16+00:00

I try to be careful about my terms because I don't want to unintentionally insult anyone. Plenty of people to intentionally insult though.

Syntrel · 2011-12-10T05:10:53+00:00

Lately in this subreddit I've noticed a few PC white knights harping on anyone that would talk shit about a bigoted feminist or just a woman that is a terrible excuse for a person in general. Frankly I'm fucking sick of having these "Good Men Project" pricks telling me to tone it down.

How's this for toned down? Go paint your butch girlfriend's toenails you fucking bitch.

Edit: Fuck it, and fuck this subreddit. For those of you that haven't sold your testicles to the feminists in exchange for mild acceptance, good luck. For those of you that sold your balls and took up the PC crusade, go fuck yourselves.

2011-12-10T06:57:31+00:00

The worst thing is it's a bunch of srs wankers with puppet accounts ruining this place. The high principled approach the mods are taking is not enough imo.

Scott2508 · 2011-12-10T11:03:20+00:00

I also disagree. I see the MRM as half of the Egalitarian movement. And that means we should be respectful to everyone, but we just focus on men's issues as the women's issues are adequately covered

truthjusticeca · 2011-12-10T06:00:40+00:00

Calm down everyone. We're going to have a nice rational discussion until we figure out what to actually do.

Meanwhile, activists are doing stuff. Discuss.

2011-12-10T06:45:16+00:00

I normally do not approve of the term mangina, but manginaville deserves recognition.

Wastin' away again in manginaville; lookin' for my lost shaker of salt. Some people say that there's a woman to blame, but I know it's my own damn fault.

NotADamsel · 2011-12-10T14:33:43+00:00

My friend, here is my take-

We cannot talk reason with a feminist. Such is lunacy! They will not listen to reason. There is no good reason to even acknowledge them when they come to argue, except for to show bystanders how we act. If we act with dignity and respect, we'll gain followers. We can still play hardball with those in power who are against us, I'm not saying we should ever stop, but if we want to grow in numbers we need to show the public the face of true, real, honest men who value their opponents as human beings if nothing else. We need to show that we are above petty emotion, above resentment and personal attacks, and that we focus solely on the issues before us. Currently politically-correct language is deplorable in how it treats men, but diplomatic language has always been utterly neutral.

2011-12-10T18:46:39+00:00

Its normal for new people to have those views. Its illogical to expect them to just arrive and already understand the whole thing.

carbonnanotube · 2011-12-11T22:36:34+00:00

Here is my view on the matter: We win by being better than those who oppose us. The Last thing we want to happen is a MRA-WRA "war" because that is not what we are trying to do, we don't need to put down others to fight for our rights unlike the feminists we "oppose".

themountaingoat · 2011-12-10T08:37:37+00:00

I think the only reason people become offended by what is said on this subreddit is that women are not used to taking any criticism at all of their sex (at least in a mainstream, serious way). When discussing feminism with feminists things more insulting than anything on this subreddit are commonly said.

Part of what I consider the goal of the mens rights movement is to challenge the presumption that men are more violent\less ethical etc than women, and part of this is drawing attention to the fact that women aren't perfect either.

olderguy · 2011-12-10T04:27:25+00:00

I salute you sir. I'm a long time fan of this sub/r/ and to be honest I'm fucking sick of having to be nice to the cunts that come over here. They need to bow to OUR demands, not vice versa

KMFCM · 2011-12-10T06:27:59+00:00

You'll never get the people in here to stop trying to befriend the enemy. I agree with you though.

Bobsutan · 2011-12-10T21:24:06+00:00

Eventually I realized that as a MAN, I will be called into question NO MATTER WHAT I SAY OR DO. And as an MRA, I will be hated no matter what I say or do. Therefore, I simply think there is no reason for us to be nice and accommodating to people who want us dead.

Stop making excuses for bigots and misandrists.

If anyone would like an example of what he's talking about, read the article's comments posted here: http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/n6s6h/i_feel_like_this_needs_to_reposted/ Some are pretty sensible, but many are batshit insane and/or chock full of misandry.

windyplace · 2011-12-10T03:49:15+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Ishmael999 · 2011-12-10T20:37:02+00:00

Oh no, it's the PC police! Everybody hide the bigotry!

2011-12-10T05:10:46+00:00

upvoted for truth. this "movement" does a pretty good job of discrediting itself. never stop posting, reddit user "prowomanantifeminist." especially gems like this:

Beyond that, it's far past time we stopped caring about the "feelings" of people who want us dead.

ahahahahahahahahahahaha. hilarious how obvious trolls so easily fly under the radar and are even celebrated within this joke of a "movement." godspeed

Title	This subreddit is turning into a politically correct wuss-fest.
Author	ProWomanAntiFeminist
Upvotes	1
Comments	119
Date	December 10, 2011 3:44 AM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/n72mm/this_subreddit_is_turning_into_a_politically/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/this-subreddit-is-turning-into-a-politically.1030745 https://theredarchive.com/post/1030745

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