Thoughts on circumcision:

Missingperson · 2012-10-16T16:56:00+00:00

If he's intact, he'll have a choice. If he's cut, he won't. To me, that seems like enough of a reason to wait until he can make his own decision.

CptSeaCow · 2012-10-16T16:44:46+00:00

I'm a woman, but I'm leaving the decision to my sons. I will discuss everything with them when they're old enough, tell them that they are normal, but that some people do prefer to have their penis circumcised. If he really wants the procedure (after doing research I hope) then I will support his decision, because he made it.

SilencingNarrative · 2012-10-16T20:29:04+00:00

Guy here. When my wife was pregnant with my son I decided I didn't to get him circumcised very early on and she fought me on it when I brought it up. She wouldn't listen to me when I tried to explain my research on the subject because I wasn't a doctor and she was going to do whatever her OBGYN recommended. So at the next pre-natal visit I asked him what he thought about circumcision, because I was against it and wanted to hear him out. He opened with,"I HATE that shit" and went on for some length as to why circumcision is a bad idea.

My wife had no idea this was a controversial topic in the medical community and that her OBGYN would take my side, so she was really boxed in with her "you're not a doctor, and we'll do whatever he says" line for a while. So she conceeded for a while.

Then her mom started working on her, playing up the freak angle ("he'll be embarassed in the locker room!"). Nothing was convincing me so she switched tactics and started discussing how circumcision reduced the liklihood of UTIs, and what a horrible thing UTI's are and how anything that might spare him that possibility was justified (completely reneging on the "you can't have an opinion on medical issues unless you have an MD" line). I stood my ground and my son was not circumcised, although it took everything I had with my wife and mother in law tag-teaming me.

To her credit, my wife eventually came to see circumcision as wrong and does a good job of defending the idea of leaving boys intact when it comes up.

Regarding my feelings on having been circumcised as an infant, a week doesn't go by that I don't wonder what natural sex would feel like, and briefly touch base with my fury at the american medical profession for aiding and abetting the circumcision of millions of helpless infants, as well as betraying me personally.

I try not to bring up the subject with my wife as she refuses to see it as a big deal. She will say things like,"You just need to get over it. Women have it much worse. Could you imagine having lawmakers always conspiring to take away control of your body from you by limiting abortion?"

I'm never going to receive sympathy in my personal life so I try not to think about my feelings on the issue. I feel great that I was able to prevent my son from being circumcised, despite determined opposition.

whatisthisIm12 · 2012-10-16T17:05:12+00:00

For what it is worth, talk with the doctors well in advance about this. When I was in the hospital with my son, it was made clear to me the decision was not mine, but the mothers. The nurses even acted all odd, not even letting me see the paper work (I didn't even know what it was for until I saw my wife signing). We'd already made the decision ahead of time, but unlike every other part of child birth, I was deliberately excluded from this. If we had decided not to circumcise and my wife had wanted, she could have ignored my wishes and had it done anyway.

Maybe that's illegal, I don't know. I tried checking into at the time, but I got tons of sites advocating one side of the debate or another, but didn't see any laws regarding my area. So just make sure you've talked to your doctor and partner so there is no confusion.

Bulbort · 2012-10-16T19:53:01+00:00

I'd never do it to my son. Regret that it was done to me. Have poor relationship with my family in part due to it.

burritosandbeer · 2012-10-16T16:48:44+00:00

If your son decides later on he wants it done, so be it. His body, his choice.

CptSeaCow · 2012-10-16T17:26:12+00:00

I'll give you my opinion. I was circumcised. I wish I had the ability to make my own choice. I could have died or had a terrible variety of disorders from a botched procedure, but I was lucky enough not to. I feel no hatred towards my parents as they were from a different period where less information was available, but at the same time I do have an intense hatred of the doctor. Doctors have full rights to refuse elective procedures (see men attempting to get vasectomies younger than X age or women trying to get their tubes tied) so I am kind of bitter that a doctor who understands every function of the body and all the positive affects of the foreskins, and the dangers of the procedure would violate his oath of "Do no Harm." I'm content with my life and I deal with the cards life dealt me, but I do wish I had been given an option.

lukeh15 · 2012-10-16T17:54:21+00:00

Why would anyone want their foreskin cut off? To prevent infections?

That's like ripping all of your toenails out in case they become ingrown.

Circumcision is archaic and dumb, and needs to stop.

BioGenx2b · 2012-10-16T19:25:34+00:00

When I was about 8 years old, I asked my dad about circumcision. His answer:

My mother asked what should be done and he told her, he wasn't circumcised and he wasn't going to force it on his sons; his penis works just fine and he doesn't believe in forcing [circumcision], religiously or otherwise, on someone else. If I chose later to have it done, that was my business and nobody else's.

I have to say that I agree very strongly with his position, and I'm eternally grateful that he allowed me to maintain autonomy. There's nothing wrong with an intact penis and there are no certifiable inherent risks that can't be mitigated with common sense. The idea that it "looks ugly" is a huge misperception that's almost completely absent in non-Black minority communities. It's also a practice that's largely uncommon outside the U.S., though I still don't understand why it's big here at all.

As a man and egalitarian who believes strongly in the sovereignty of the human body and a person's right to choose, I implore you not to circumcise your child against his will, but instead to allow him to decide on his own when he's old enough to understand. I'd also ask that you teach him about proper body image so that he can make better decisions in the future regarding his self-esteem and respect for himself and others.

myfirstthrowaway123 · 2012-10-16T19:30:56+00:00

i posted here a while ago about my own circumcision, and i would like to weigh in here.

The discussion here keeps referring to the decision to circumcise as the decision of the mother, or father, or both parents together. Although this might be consistent with the current law in most places, it is ABSOLUTELY WRONG morally.

People should be able to make choices regarding themselves by themselves, and no one should be able to impose their will on anyone else.

Why talk about the right of any parent to circumcise their child? Children are not pieces of property owned by parents. The parents need to take care of the child, as they chose to bring it into the world, but that does not make the child their property. What the parents do to/for the child should only be allowed if it's in the child's best interest (obvious stuff like, you know, feeding it and giving it a place to live) but parents should absolutely not be allowed to impose their lifestyle choices onto their child. And as there are absolutely no benefits for circumcision and it takes away the child's right to make decisions regarding his own body (which, i will reiterate, does not belong to you) you should absolutely not do this.

i'm very glad your position is one of no circumcision, but i'm disappointed to see that you're under the impression that it should be even remotely within the parents' power to do this to their child. Quite the opposite - being the person who made the decision to create this child, it is your duty to protect him/her (whichever it turns out to be) until they are old enough to protect themselves. If you do have a son, you should do everything in your power to prevent this from happening to him until he can make the decision on his own.

If you have a son and you circumcise him, maybe he'll be okay with it. But then again, maybe he won't, and in that case there's nothing he can do. If you have a son and you don't circumcise him, maybe he'll be okay with that. If not, he can chose to be circumcised. Speaking as someone who had no choice and is not okay with it, i feel like i was betrayed by my own parents. Please don't let that happen to someone else.

Snake973 · 2012-10-16T22:09:31+00:00

I'm not circumcised and I an incredibly happy about that. I don't think I would ever want to be anyways, but if I did, then at least I would have a choice in the matter.

Missingperson · 2012-10-16T23:05:36+00:00

I'm an intact male living in the U.S. and I just wantes to mention that if you're worried about morons treating your hypothetical son as a "freak" -Don't be, most teenage boys aren't at all interested in checking out each other's genitals as people would have you believe

I went through middle school and high school post-gym showers without anybody saying a word. Ever

nigglereddit · 2012-10-16T19:57:39+00:00

The main arguments for cutting are:

Lower chance of contracting HIV
Lower chance of contracting STDs
Easier to keep clean

If you're smart you'll see immediately that none of these apply to a newborn, and by the time he's old enough for it to be a possibility, he will be old enough to decide for himself.

By the way, if you're interested: I'm from the UK not the US and hardly anyone has their child cut here. Most parents I know would think anyone who seriously considered it would be totally insane. And I mean genuinely mentally ill.

Cutting off part of your son's cock? No fucking way. Uh uh. Nope. And doing it so it looks like yours? There's two ways: no way and no fucking way.

ullere · 2012-10-16T19:32:10+00:00

I thought being intact was more common in America?

Missingperson · 2012-10-16T18:32:55+00:00

I really wish i hadn't been circumcised, especially now that i have an understanding what i have lost because of it. Sadly though fate was kind of against me, even for my parents it wasn't an option to cut or not to cut. From my understanding when i was born there were a pair of abnormal growths at the end of my penis. When the doctor removed the growths the foreskin was taken as well.

BrSy · 2012-10-16T16:47:05+00:00

Circumcision removes the most sensitive parts of the penis, causes severe pain, exposes the glans which is supposed to be an internal organ, and in addition can cause some pretty severe complications like infections, mental illnesses or even death.

Why you would even consider inflicting such serious violence on your baby is beyond me. Here such a thing would probably go into police investigation as severe assault.

ATI_nerd · 2012-10-16T18:59:19+00:00

It sure is a tough spot to be in, I'm sorry.

Missingperson · 2012-10-16T23:40:17+00:00

Thank you to everyone who shared their stories, and offered insight and thought provoking ideas that I can share with my child's father.

MiniCooperUSB · 2012-10-17T01:04:51+00:00

I'm a teen so hopefully I can shed some light on to how this might affect your son as he grows up. How to use this information if for the family to decide. 1) Of the un-cut people I know, many of them were ridiculed for it mildly behind their backs, and some are very sensitive about there subject. I go to a very tolerant and generally well-educated school, so I can only imagine this effect might be amplified if they don't have the same opportunities as the un-cut people I know have had. 2) The un-cut teens I know are generally comfortable with their bodies and organs, but many of them are very uncomfortable with how people talk about them because of it. 3) When they realized they were in the minority, most of the un-cut teens I knew were comfortable with the fact and did not wish to be changed. 4) Of the un-cut teens I know all of them said they do not wish to circumcise their future children, and many circumcised teens I know agreed with this fact seeing it as cruel or a form of mutilation. This might give hint that the public view on circumcision is changing.

LittleRedHeadedLady · 2012-10-17T02:37:01+00:00

I have two boys, they are intact. People make this an issue all the damn time. It is annoying! Why is it an issue? Because I remind them that boys can be healthy without being cut. I remind them that as a mother we can say no to harming a child. When they ask why I didn't do it, I tell them the truth... because all my children have a right to what happens to their body. Some women get annoyed and asked what I would have done if their father wanted it done, I tell the truth, I tell them I would refuse to do that to any child I gave birth to. It is not about what a parent wants, it's about my child having a right to their own body... point blank, end of story.

I know a man circumcised as an adult. He needed it done. He had it done by a laser. He also recommends a gay urologist because they especially can appreciate a penis. lol (His words, not mine.) It is not the end of the world to have a circumcision as an adult, and the choice would be all theirs! **And who the hell wants to really take care of a torn apart penis shortly after birth??? Argh... absolutely horrifying to me that any mother would allow this done to her newborn baby.

BinaryMn · 2012-10-17T02:45:46+00:00

Circumcised at birth. Early 20s.

To be completely honest, it's something I never cared about or thought about until reading this thread. Even now I still don't care.

If I have kids, I'd likely lean towards leaving them intact and let them make their own choice later.

Lyonette · 2012-10-16T16:50:23+00:00

It seems like it should be a private decision amongst both parents, not just the father. Why does the father want it to be circumcisaed if he acknowledges it is wrong. That sounds like major cognitive dissonance. I think more and more children of "our" generation are intact - by the time they are sexually active, I doubt it will be as weird or freak-like as people anticipate.

yourfaceyourass · 2012-10-16T21:29:38+00:00

Show your husband a video of the procedure. I don't think anyone would really want to have it done on a newborn after seeing it.

AeneaLamia · 2012-10-17T02:01:29+00:00

If you were asking from a psychological standpoint on why your partner would want this being a circumcised male, I would imagine it would be because the whole topic of circumcision being wrong makes him feel damaged or broken.

This can be denied by refusing to accept it to an extent, and wanting his child to be like him and also possibly avoid having to discuss this issue with his child when he asks why he is different.

It can be a difficult thing for him to get over, but it is important he understands how wrong this is.

blueoak9 · 2012-10-16T20:53:37+00:00

"Everyone is asking about this, and I find it very rude - isn't this supposed to be a private decision between and the father?"

It's totally rude.

intensely_human · 2012-10-17T00:06:18+00:00

Just wanted to comment on one sentence from your post:

Everyone is asking about this, and I find it very rude - isn't this supposed to be a private decision between and the father?

Actually don't be so sure. Another way to look at it is that, perhaps, a conversation about what color to paint your living room might be a "private decision", or how to invest your retirement money. But when the decision at hand affects the life of a third person, and it is a person who cannot speak or defend himself or his interests, then it is the responsibility of other people to step in and inquire about the decision.

The assert that in the absence of consent from the baby, then the decision should be made by the parents is similar to saying the parents own the child. Actually no one "owns" a child. Or if anyone "owns" a child, the society as a whole "owns" him until he is old enough to "own" himself.

As such, and as I could probably articulate better if I spent some more time with it, I believe that parents are not the only "stakeholders", nor the only protectors, in the development of a child. Society is also a stakeholder and a protector.

Any newborn human, or more generally any newborn person, deserves the best that society as a whole has to offer them, and should not be subjected to the whim of whoever happened to manufacture their body.

iggybdawg · 2012-10-17T03:13:10+00:00

I am circumcised, my son is not. I feel like something precious was stolen from me.

Anyway, my son is old enough to ask questions. I handled it as if it were any other body part "a doctor cut it off when it was a baby. why? he thought it was bad. why? I dunno, he didn't know any better"

iongantas · 2012-10-17T07:27:56+00:00

It is quite irrelevant what has happened to other people's penises. His right to bodily integrity is his, and not somehow subordinate to other people's feelings.

rightsbot · 2012-10-16T16:36:18+00:00

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conrad612 · 2012-10-17T01:11:55+00:00

I'm circumcised and I'm perfectly fine with it. If it's something you've lived with your entire life, it all comes down to perspective and education IMO. As long as you raise your son from the get-go to understand that there is nothing wrong with him and that circumcision is a simple vanity procedure, I think he'll be fine. Just make sure he knows that he's the way he was born. If any women in his life (assuming he's straight) give him grief for not being circumcised, just tell him to tell them "neither are you."

HettGutt_MRMarxist · 2012-10-16T20:18:24+00:00

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2231533/ http://www.aafp.org/online/en/home/publications/news/news-now/health-of-the-public/20120828aap-circumcision.html http://www.cancer.org/cancer/penilecancer/detailedguide/penile-cancer-risk-factors http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20048246

Some might argue you ought to leave him intact and give him the choice when he grows up. That's a false choice, a pseudo-choice. Adult circumcision is: - more costly - more dangerous - a much harder decision to make for someone who becomes accustomed to the aesthetic of their body - doesn't provide benefits to the patient for 18 entire YEARS of his life

At the very least, if you expect him to become sexually active before giving him the decision later on, which is a reasonable expectation, I'd advise you lean toward circumcision.

monroeski · 2012-10-16T20:37:37+00:00

When a male child is growing up, his number one role model is his father. He will learn everything he needs to know at a young age about his body from his father. and most of this will be learned by watching. I f a young child is watching his number one role model and sees that he is different than him, he is not going to understand why. no, it doesn't matter whether he is or is not, but it is important for the child to feel included, or like his dad. it will make him feel better about himself and it will be easier for him to learn how to use the restroom.

Edit: Ok, I see what you guys are saying, all I simply mean is that my personal biggest role model in the world is and always has been my father, I have modeled everything in my life to be as awesome as I think he is, when i was born he had me circumcised because that is how he was and he wanted me to be like him. when I asked him why, he said it was so that I felt normal when compared to him. I really couldn't care either way, it just made sense to me what my father said so I thought I would share it. Dad's are a little boy's hero throughout their childhood, feeling the same as their dad could be extremely beneficial.

Title	Thoughts on circumcision:
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	22
Comments	118
Date	October 16, 2012 4:34 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/11krvh/thoughts_on_circumcision/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/thoughts-on-circumcision.1011228 https://theredarchive.com/post/1011228

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