Who oppresses men?

Eryemil · 2012-03-04T00:31:40+00:00

As I see it, men mostly oppress themselves as a means to gain the favor of women.

truthjusticeca · 2012-03-04T00:37:28+00:00

Is feminism doing a better job of helping men, is it helping men who are least powerful, or is it just asking for more sacrifices from them?

Feminism fails to recognize male disposability and the glass cellar.

aetheralloy · 2012-03-04T01:53:33+00:00

How it works is feminists act like the patriarchy is some kind of boy's club that helps men... then turn around and say the patriarchy hurts men too.

You can be pretty confident though that when a feminist says "the patriarchy" she's about to go on a ridiculous anti-male rant.

MockingDead · 2012-03-04T04:35:17+00:00

I was told by femenism that at age 18, I, as a white male, would get a sack of cash, a corner office with a sexy secretary, and 3.8 votes every election day.

truthjusticeca · 2012-03-04T00:32:41+00:00

As a family unit, the patriarchy provided for and protected the family unit, which was vital for survival of children. Gender roles were a necessary division of labor that discriminated against men and women.

As a form of leadership, the patriarchy provided for the necessary hierarchical organizations that enabled the creation of civilization. However, this hierarchy was not a benefit to all men, as most men were treated as disposable for the benefit of those at the top. Women benefited based on their social status which was determined by marriage.

fondueguy · 2012-03-04T02:00:52+00:00

white, straight, rich, able-bodied cis-men

How the fuck is that a class? That's basically a way of saying once a man is a victim, he is no longer a man. It's also a divide and conquer tactic.

That's of course meaningless since those victims (non rich, non-abled, gay) were born the same as the other men. And the different races still face a slew of the same exact gender issues.

truthjusticeca · 2012-03-04T00:35:14+00:00

Original Post:

Anyone else noticing that the standard line from feminists is to blame "The Patriarchy," for men's oppression, usually to detract from the idea that feminism can do precisely that?

A typical example:

patriarchy has historically given the most advantages to white, straight, rich, able-bodied cis-men. The fact that cis-men are also severely disadvantaged and limited by this system doesn't counteract that fact.

It wasn't until I came to this subreddit that I saw views and historical narratives that really challenged the ideas that women were not benefactors of patriarchy, that women were more oppressed than men in this system, and that patriarchy was unnatural. Today's narratives would have us believe that patriarchy sprang up for no functional reason but to oppress women. They also seem to take the leap that since patriarchy oppressed men, that means that women couldn't, and feminism doesn't. Is feminism doing a better job of helping men, is it helping men who are least powerful, or is it just asking for more sacrifices from them?

What do you guys make of this?

dakru · 2012-03-04T02:07:46+00:00

Does a culture of oppression have to be gendered?

Can't we just say that there are some biases against men within our culture, that need to be changed, and that that culture is a collective result of all the people in it?

IHaveALargePenis · 2012-03-04T02:08:42+00:00

Is feminism doing a better job of helping men, is it helping men who are least powerful, or is it just asking for more sacrifices from them?

Name one thing that feminism has intentionally done for men.

I will continue to ask that question until someone actually provides me with an answer (citation needed, etc). Feminism has been around for ages, and has become a massive force that's been around for the last 50 years. If this "equality" movement is what it says it is, there should be plenty of things people can list to answer my question.

And as for men oppressing men, plenty of women do the same thing to themselves.

funnyfaceking · 2012-03-04T03:02:00+00:00

what is a "cis-man"?

2012-03-04T04:03:59+00:00

The answer is both. Men are oppressed both by the residual constraints of patriarchy as well as recent feminist changes to society which are hostile to men and boys. But to see this, we need the historical context of patriarchy.

Patriarchy is primarily a social system oriented to increasing the wealth, power and influence of a society. It originated around the time of the invention of agriculture, and spread throughout the world because patriarchal societies out-competed all other types of societies.

The point of this is that patriarchy is not concerned primarily with empowering men over women, but empowering one society over its neighbors. It uses men and women as necessary to that end. Men are used as workers and soldiers, and women are used as breeders and domestic workers. Patriarchy works because it is highly effective in maximizing human resources: getting a lot of economic and military performance out of the men and a lot of reproduction out of the women.

So yes, patriarchy oppresses men as well as women. Men are constrained to certain narrow roles, and have to do the dirty, difficult and dangerous tasks of society. Women are oppressed because they are constrained to domestic production and are also under the authority of their husbands.

Today we are witnessing the slow disintegration of patriarchy. While women have largely freed themselves from mandatory domesticity and subservience to men, men have not achieved much liberation from their traditional roles. In addition, men and masculinity have been subjected to unrelenting attacks from feminists for 50 years, resulting in laws and institutional practices which are hostile to men and boys. Feminists have exploited old patriarchal biases to favor women. For example, 'women are fragile', so special Violence Against Women laws are needed. 'Men can't parent', therefore child custody should go to the mother except in special circumstances.

TL/DR: Patriarchy and feminism are both contribute to men's problems.

boywizard · 2012-03-04T04:42:23+00:00

I honestly don't know what "The Patriarchy" is. I think of regular patriarchy as a father being the head of his household.

fondueguy · 2012-03-04T02:10:16+00:00

How women oppress men?

why are men at the "top"... Women are attracted to men of high status which is by definition about male competition. Men don't usually oogle a woman because she dominates other women. (Interestingly men are attracted to women who smile but women are unattrqcted to men who smile)
more sexual selection stuff... women encourage homophobia and reduce men's sexual autonomy

While women were more likely to break off the relationship following both kinds of cheating, they really disliked a boyfriend's homosexual affair.
quite telling... The Women's Petition Against Coffee 1674. Basically, men aren't allowed to get together and talk (they might start to help each other put and gain a sense of each other). Better they only work, drink, fuck, and compete...
the heart of the matter... Mothers Are the Most Responsible in Transferring of Sexist Attitudes, Study Suggests. And obviously sexism leads to gender discrimination
which is very scary because... women's automatic in-group bias is remarkably stronger than men's

The gender norms are what dictates much of our lives and why the MRM exists. The gender norms didn't come from the top, they came from the base. Men were expected to go outside to work and naturally that will lead to a heirchy... But those at the stop still acted within the gender norms. (Obviously they wouldn't be able to tell women to be the provider or go to war while men stayed home; it wasn't there power.) The gender norms that men have were largely influenced by women. Women use things like sexual selection, the power of parenthood, and general communication/group decision (the essence of politics) to help create societies gender norms, ie discrimination. So women do create many of the problems we face.

There is also simple things like women choosing to not defend the city in war, literally their choice, which forced men to do the defending alone.

justsomeguyudontknow · 2012-03-04T02:16:35+00:00

Does /r/MensRights have an official book list that could challenge such claims?

I have been looking around for stuff, and here are some titles I've come across:

Warren Farrell's The Myth of Male Power

Chinweizu's Anatomy of female power: A masculinist dissection of matriarchy

Esther Vilar's The Manipulated Man

MuFoxxa · 2012-03-04T01:49:24+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Liverotto · 2012-03-04T12:20:56+00:00

In our Feminist society?

Who oppresses men?

Other men, in the hope of getting some pussy.

2012-03-04T09:01:43+00:00

Patriarchy just means that, because we have to start from the assumption that all people should be completely equal in all things (money made, grades, number of elected officials) that any deviation from complete equality must come from the oppression of women. If oppression were to completely disappear, then men would drop to 49% of elected officials tomorrow. White, straight men would actually only occupy about 7% (made up) of all elected officials as the vast majority of people are gay or trans or women or just not white.

NickRausch · 2012-03-04T05:17:40+00:00

The government oppresses people. I mean, feel free to talk about discrimination in jobs, or unhealthy cultural messages, or marxist class theory, but real oppression comes from the government. Sure the cudgel might be wielded by one group or another or used against one group or another, but the thing that remains the same is government force.

2012-03-04T16:12:03+00:00

Saying that "The Patriarchy hurts men too" is just a way to cling to their false premise and to further lay blame on men.

Title	Who oppresses men?
Author	justsomeguyudontknow
Upvotes	19
Comments	54
Date	March 4, 2012 12:21 AM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/qgj2z/who_oppresses_men/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/who-oppresses-men.1026694 https://theredarchive.com/post/1026694

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