Perplexed by some men's insistence that, societal conventions about treating romantic interests with respect caused their lack of romance/sex and subverting that by not caring about them is the way.

wtknight · 2023-05-10T12:32:41+00:00

Removed. No discussion posts with non-neutral titles.

Due-Lie-8710 · 2023-05-10T08:35:39+00:00

Majority of harm caused to women are by people they know and trust , which begs the question who are they dating, we keep telling men that the only reason a guy gets a girl is because he gives her attention and respect , even thou most of what we have seen is that , he either got it by luck , by money or by charisma and looks,

some guys can be funny but they are by no means common , we have also heard multiple women complian about settling for perfectly good men who have actually respected them, if being nice and respectful was the key , the nice guy troupe regardless of whether the person is genuine or not would work ; which begs the question why are women attracted to these men

MoldovaImComing · 2023-05-10T09:36:29+00:00

All of the arrogant, selfish, narcissistic assholes I know are swimming in women — and they are a lot more attractive than the “nice girls” who go after “nice guys”.

It’s pretty clear as a guy, if you want to date hotties:

You need to be tall and handsome
You need to treat women like absolute dirt

MUTUALDESTRUCTION69 · 2023-05-10T07:55:14+00:00

If I feel like Chad got something I wanted and didn’t get I’m gonna do what Chad does. Because the idea of a woman liking me in a “he pays for a dinner” type way instead of a “he’s soo hot” type way pisses me off and causes insecurity and psychological discomfort. And it may be “immature” but that’s reality, just like women liking tall guys.

And if I can’t talk you out of your Chad obsession don’t try to talk me out of acting like Chad. Actually though. It’s obvious women see and group men in different ways. Men are not obligated to sex or relationships and women are not obligated to the existence of a whole static subclass of men who will buy them dinners and simp for them while they dream about Chad. As I once told an ex: “I like buying dinner because I like you. I don’t like just buying dinner.”

If guys want to try and be Chad let them try and be Chad. The only way to find a balance between respectfully harmless and thrilling aggressive is to reach both extremes and work back towards the middle.

Edit: To clarify I’m not saying “just be an asshole.” I was just trying to give perspective on why dudes try and be assholes. My point is that if a guy wants to try and be Chad by being an asshole it might be an educational experience for him in many ways. In every Simpin Simon is an asshole Chad and in every Chad there is a Sir Chadwick.

MalePsychopath · 2023-05-10T10:42:30+00:00

Women are viscerally attracted to masculinity. They like confidence, strength, leadership, dominance and protectiveness.
A big misconception is that you have to be an asshole to be masculine. That’s not true. You can absolutely be masculine in a respectful way.

However, what is a libido killer is being respectful in a feminine way. Woman don’t like it when a man is shy, careful, agreeable, timid or submissive. It’s the feminine behavior that turns them off, not the "respectfulness".

But being an asshole is much easier than being masculine in a healthy way. Also loud assholes are more visible than quiet confident men.
So that’s what women end up with. They will rather choose a visible, toxically masculine man than a feminine man.

just_a_place · 2023-05-10T08:59:14+00:00

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. What exactly is the discussion here?

TheRedPillRipper · 2023-05-10T10:20:03+00:00

where the man is kind of a dick to woman.

This does exist, though I’d agree, that it’s not the norm. Most relationships I witness are fairly equal. The ‘dick move’ trope is certainly a minority.

Godspeed and good luck!

Doesthisevenmatter7 · 2023-05-10T09:05:07+00:00

I’m gonna be honest being a nice guy still doesn’t work. No matter the hundreds of posts by women saying it does it doesn’t and it kinda just is what it is. Women don’t understand the male experience. When any boy growing up literally goes to school and sees 99% of the fine girls hooking up with all the same guys. Who typically all act the same way. While he’s trying all the nice guy things he’s told by women work and getting nothing what do you think he’s gonna do? He’s gonna start acting like those guys and get some girls if he has any semblance of a brain like wtf this is so obvious. But I’ll still say acting like a chad or whatever is great for causal sex not so great for finding a relationship happy balance is always the best.

Reptheft · 2023-05-10T08:13:52+00:00

Because it's simply a fact. Feminist rhetoric and creepshaming worsen male approach anxiety. Yet men are still expected to approach, so the best move is to simply ignore it.

Treacle-Flimsy · 2023-05-10T08:32:42+00:00

I am one of those men because it kinda works for me. I wait for 10-15 minutes before replying to her first text, I started putting less effort in the complimenting and started doing more negging, I started to behave in a cold/warm behaviour type where one day I'd be very receptive and attentive and on the other I'd be much less so. It kinda perplexed me at first, because if I were to be genuine, I'd leave all the mind games aside, but it makes me unattractive. Pushing boundaries, having a sight of being able to have options or at least maintaining a frame, despite how untrue it might be is a way to go, fortunately or not.

I think it's due to kindness being low priced. There's too many respectful guys out there whose kindness will go unnoticed because it's not rare, it doesn't garner attention, being more dishonest/inconsistent however will make you stand out, therefore it's better to be this way

haramicock · 2023-05-10T11:41:56+00:00

This is merely my anecdotal experience. I hit puberty pretty late, like the last two years of school. Before that, I was maybe a 2/10, but puberty hit me hard, and I also became muscular after regular strength training, so I am considered to be 8/10 now. The changes I faced during puberty, changed how people perceived and treated me, and in turn, how I started treating others. Before, I used to get NO attention, and I was the stereotypical beta-male nice guy simp who would do anything a woman asked. I got completely trod on and disrespected. After puberty however, women started approaching me, flirting with me, hitting on me etc. This was such a huge change for me, that I also started taking all this attention and validation, and in turn women, for granted. I didn't really mistreat women, but I was definitely careless and toxic. I got into a really long term relationship. Initially, I was really toxic, not caring one way or another about this girl, who was ridiculously into me. She would do anything I asked. But at some point in the relationship, I started developing very strong feelings for her, which made me simp after her. This changed the dynamic of the relationship completely. She started taking me for granted, and was no longer subservient, which was perfectly fine by me. However, it didn't take more than 2 months after that point that she lost interest in me and dumped me. This exact thing happened once more in the next major relationship I had. Infact, this pattern held true for ALL of the relationships that my friends were in where initially they were toxic and the girl was really into them, and only when they fell in love and ceased being toxic that the girl dumped them. You see, none of us are Nice Guys (atleast at the current point in our lives), but we have the capability to be one, and every time we are nice, we are consistently fucked with. This is just inductive reasoning at this point, where even nice guys have to act toxic to keep a relationship. This is the most paradoxical part about human gender dynamics. The only reason I can even think of for this happening is because women might perceive a guy who treats them well to be at the same level as them or lower than them, and so this might be some deep seated innate biology that tells them to pursue someone who treats them like garbage because that behaviour might correlate to being with someone who can get away with treating you like garbage, that is, someone who is of a higher perceived level than yours. Ultimately, it is just hypergamy at play. You can blame women for being hypergamous, but we are sentient beings, capable of reasoning and going against our primary instincts. If men are supposed to not rape, women can surely not be hypergamous and stop discriminating against nice guys.

Radiant_Specific6542 · 2023-05-10T11:44:50+00:00

I had a period in life that I was a dick to women. Well not just women, but everyone, and I was drowning in tail. So there Merritt to their stance.

NotARussianBot1984 · 2023-05-10T11:55:59+00:00

", having sex outside of committed relationship has been normalized for...decades now"

For some select men yes. For an increasing amount of men, no. For myself, I never actually had casual sex with a almost slightly attractive girl who puts in effort. It always felt less like sex, and more like they used me to help them get off, since it was never mutual.

It is what it is, I accept that. But I also have adapted to dating sugar babies, so now that I make money, I can pay to have casual sex, but that is NOT normalized, prostitiution is still illegal in many ways.

Chemical_Major_1403 · 2023-05-10T12:13:56+00:00

I still can't understand all this concern about women , like women being abusers or less respectful is so avoided as a topic but being " a dick to women" is the talk of the time like why do people care sooo much about how women are treated but not men

Lovers691 · 2023-05-10T08:02:00+00:00

I do mean some men. In male spaces, whether you’re getting it, how you’re getting is a much talked about topic than it is in female spaces.

Why did you not just say sex?

Most men don’t talk about what they changed to be desirable that way.

They do getting fit, style, money/status and game are the things most men talk about if you ask for dating advice either from friends, male family or male dating spaces. The problem is that aside from getting fit and money/status, most of those methods are low ROI past a baseline point and even in the case of fitness and money, you need an insane amount of money for it to affect dating significantly and most of what makes you attractive from fitness is just leanness.

Then there are some guys who insists that societal conventions about being respectful is the "libido killer" and the way to get women's attention is talking down to them, pushing their buttons/boundaries, being inconsistent, not caring about their feelings etc., which amounts to generally being kind of a dick....

It seems like a extraordinary claim to me that most women and men that are getting laid are doing that mostly through interactions where the man is kind of a dick to woman.It makes me wonder where these men who are insisting this lives where the situation is so.

The whole point of that stuff is an overcorrection for simping, the reason why it might work is that you aren't acting simpy, obviously good looks trump all of this but there are tiktoks and street interview of GenZ chicks complaining about guys being too nice to them. Also from what I have hear from guys who were formerly into PUA negging and being mean to women does actually sort of work.

This is 2023. Unless you’re from a religious community that shuns sex outside of marriage, having sex outside of committed relationship has been normalized for...decades now. Normal people treating each other normally and respectfully get down to do the dirty every day.

And most people especially average to below average men are not having casual sex regularly.

punktfan · 2023-05-10T08:38:37+00:00

Men who insist on treating women disrespectfully are clearly coming from a place of frustration and resentment for not getting what they want from women. They're thinking about how they feel, not about the most effective way to be intimate with women. I've gotten sooo far with women simply by learning how to treat them respectfully. Not in a "nice guy" way, but in a fellow human being way. I feel very sad for men who think disrespect is the way, and even sadder for the women who have to put up with their bullshit.

Innanaspeaks · 2023-05-10T09:00:35+00:00

I wrote about this previously.

Some guys try to date by stealth using covert contracts rather than social skills. They offer gifts and acts of service in the hope of eliciting feelings. The see the acceptance of these as acceptance of courtship. They see this as an audition for boyfriend status which they think they are entitled to since the object of affection accepted their gifts or acts.

Its a doomed strategy. Gifts and favours do not elicit romantic/ sexual feelings in most women.

As much as some guys don't like the fact- attraction is not logical , its based on feelings. Learning how to create feelings in another person is a skill.

Some guys dont see flirting and teasing and escalating as 'respectful 'and prefer their covert contracts instead. This nearly always backfires.

I should also add that for me- being clingy and needy and putting me on a pedestal is a total turn off.

AutoModerator · 2023-05-10T07:24:48+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

Kobe_curry24 · 2023-05-10T11:19:28+00:00

At the end of the day Ceo would say it’s about the product , at the end of the day it’s about the women , most women do have a wild side and are attracted to some sick Shit but it’s all In phases , so most guys early on don’t know this Shit and get hit with a women who just got out of horrible phase and she’s not ready for a rebound she’s looking for revenge for dating that idiot , and then their are also women who are fed up and do want something different and are bored in their dating life , best women Ngl are off the fkcing market and most likely will need to be taken lmaooo your really looking for women in a transitional phase or she’s in a relationship with one of those dick heads you mention

esanchma · 2023-05-10T11:52:07+00:00

Ok, I know this article is long, but maybe read up to this. It's just the part II. It's the famous Scott Alexander post. It rang a bell with a lot of people for a reason.

If you are a man who has spent enough time in high school, or in clubs, or in any social setting, this is common wisdom for you: wife beaters exist because they get tail. The respectful nerd good guy doesn't. This is an observable fact, not an opinion, agenda, ideology or strategy. The dark triad exists. And they are never alone. You can come up with any self-serving rationalizations about it.

Comments