[Q4BP] Do you deny that push/pull, teasing, DGAF mentality and kino escalation works?

lefactorybebe · 2018-05-05T13:49:45+00:00

Yeah sure, some of their tactics work, but a lot of it is just because they're normal human interactions. Like 'agree and amplify' is just joking. Literally, that's all it is. Most people already do that, because that's a common form of joking, but TRP makes it out to be some insightful thing they've figured out. I guess it's helpful for people who don't have the best social skills and need things explained to them, but it's just a common way that people joke around.

The more manipulative behaviors probably work as well, but they're only working on specific types of girls. I think girls who are less secure with themselves will fall for those tactics. Girls who have more confidence and are more sure of themselves will just write the dude off and leave.

azngirl7689 · 2018-05-05T14:29:38+00:00

If TRP took this to normal limits, yes it works. But they take it to emotional abuse levels. No normal woman likes to be dreaded all the time. Boundary pushing the way TRP does it is borderline sexual assault. DGAF attitude is just unattractive assholery when they do it.

Lyanina · 2018-05-05T13:54:23+00:00

push/pull

Playing hard to get can work very well for a woman. I'm sure it can work similarly on women, though possibly less reliably because more women need to feel wanted to be turned on. It's not something I'd recommend, but I wouldn't say it can't work.

teasing

I absolutely don't deny that teasing is an effective way to establish and maintain rapport with someone. I think it's part of normal human interaction. It is something I do with significant others but also friends, classmates, family members, and other people I have zero romantic interest with. It is fun. It is especially fun when you find someone who "matches" you -- not pushing further than your comfort limits but giving as good as they get.

It's definitely a big plus when trying to flirt.

DGAF mentality

Not sure if it "works" but if it makes you feel better, sure. I think there's a middle ground between "too invested too fast" and "DGAF" that works just fine though.

kino escalation

If this is TRP vocabulary for flirtatious touching, yeah it works.

TRP did not invent flirting. And none of these will work all the time because sometimes she just won't be into you. You also have to be able to read her reactions and know when or if to escalate. However in general they don't seem like bad advice, for either gender.

Edit: the vocabulary and insistence on dissecting this kind of stuff usually makes it seem stilted and hard to believe the people who read or write it can pull it off in a natural-looking way.

waxedmintfloss · 2018-05-05T13:00:32+00:00

Yes they work. They work on men too lol. But the negging and gaslighting tactics are not necessary and if they work it's only because the person already has enough sex appeal to get away with it.

rainisthelife · 2018-05-05T14:48:43+00:00

Does manipulating men, withholding sex, keeping them friendzoned, making them feel worthless and using them for free money and benefits work? Of course it does.

No one says that RP tactics don’t work on women, but RP also loves to bitch about women that manipulate men. If you want to be shitty, then be shitty and own it and realize that there are consequences to your behavior and women are not exempt from being shitty and manipulative right back.

The main question is that since RPers have their little group endorsing and encouraging every shitty little behavior that they engage in, should we be endorsing and encouraging women for doing the same to men? Tbh, I’m starting to run out of reasons why we shouldn’t.

GridReXX · 2018-05-05T16:27:54+00:00

Yes all of those things work and are what normies call flirting.

When non-normies attempt it it doesn’t come off as natural because it isn’t. They’re not going with the flow of natural interaction. They’re “employing tactics” they’re thinking about obsessively in real time and it comes off as such.

It’s the difference between two dancers where one is fluidly lilting along to the choreography and the other person is awkwardly counting steps.

Electra_Cute · 2018-05-05T13:05:28+00:00

If you claim they don't work, what would you say to a person who has learned to implement them correctly and as a result is enjoying sexual success to a degree he has never achieved before? That they are lying?

Like most things with The Red Pill(and pick up artistry in general) it only "works" when it "works". I do not know what "push/pull", "teasing", "DGAF mentality" and "kino escalation" is in this context, because all of these terms have different meanings to those people that have a finite set of possibilities, but they still have a wide range of possibilities. So in terms of it "working" who knows.

I notice that The Red Pill/pick-up artistry often advocates it being a "numbers game", I think the function of saying it is a numbers game is too give the illusion that these "tactics" work because if you try it on enough people, it is bound to "work" eventually and it may not even had anything to do with them. What pick-up artistry and things similar to it like The Red Pill often forget is that attractive men often do these things because they can get away with it and people enjoy it from them, because it is coming from them or those traits build onto other parts of their personality in the first place.

VermiciousKnidzz · 2018-05-05T15:53:41+00:00

it works in the same way a car held together with duct tape works. gets the job done, is sort lasting, not fundamentally sound, and perpetuates harmful gender roles

Young_Oryx · 2018-05-05T18:31:49+00:00

I think these things probably do work, since it mimics what many men naturally do while flirting. I don't even necessarily have a problem with most or all of these things, depending on the definition we're using. (For instance, I have no issue with negging if it means teasing, as people do in conversation. If it's specifically done with the intent to create insecurity in a person, then I begin to have an issue with it.)

But then, I'm not blue pill because I think this stuff doesn't work. I object on moral grounds.

wtknight · 2018-05-05T14:16:04+00:00

Those tactics can work with some women, but they do not work in some kind of AWALT sense.

Crashlands · 2018-05-05T20:08:56+00:00

Let me preface this by giving you some of my history. In 2008, I read The Game. That was my freshman year of college. I lost my virginity 4 months later. I held very Red Pill beliefs for 4-5 years. But I noticed a trend - I could never keep a girl around. I could attract women, but they’d all eventually bail.

The problem with the red pill “tactics” is that you view them as tactics to be used, and you view all women as the same. There are definitely evolutionary triggers that subconsciously influence attraction, but everybody is different. I am now a moderate feminist with a pretty cool girlfriend, and I feel like I have a very healthy view on women. Let’s breakdown the “tactics” you’re referring to.

PUSH/PULL - it can be an effective means of flirting, sure. But you can’t view it as some kind of tactic. Push pull is simply a way of communicating non-neediness. If you just work on becoming non-needy, you’ll naturally communicate it through your body language, demeanor, and vibes. And you’ll actually keep girls around because you won’t be stuck in logic mode all of the time thinking “I need more push pull here”. It’ll just be your natural personality.

Teasing - yes. Calibrated trading where you’re both having fun is a very effective way to flirt. But it has to be calibrated.

DGAF mentality - yeah, but not for why you think. It’s not that you shouldn’t give a fuck about anything. It’s that you understand that life is short, and you don’t have time to GAF about things that don’t matter. It’s non-neediness and internal validation. You are going to be yourself because you don’t need her to like you. You show interest because she’s attractive, but you know that you still have a great life if she’s not interested back.

Kino - yes. 100% yes. It needs to be calibrated - to the environment and to the comfort of the person you’re with. It’s not that kino itself is necessary, but showing intent is necessary. Kino is a confident way to show intent. But you need to be able to read people. Don’t touch somebody that doesn’t want to be touched. If you put your arm on her back and she tenses up or pulls away, accept it and don’t push it.

Red Pill can be kinda right about what can work, where they get it wrong is WHY it works. Confidence makes women feel safe and secure. Alpha is overused - comfortable in your own skin and secure in who you are is what matters. Women aren’t generally gold diggers. Making money shows that you are more likely to be non-needy and live an adventurous lifestyle where you go for what you want. Those are attractive traits. You can have them without making money.

I strongly recommend the book “Open Her” by Karen Brody.

Greedyfriend · 2018-05-05T21:17:35+00:00

Look, many of these things work because they are normal behavior, and they are normal behavior because they make the majority of people feel comfortable when getting to know us.

Compliment a bracelet/hat/shirt whatever. This is an appropriate icebreaker for all sexes, all ages. It maintains space and proprietary while beginning a conversation that virtually everyone would welcome. The first clue that my friend’s father was developing Alzheimer’s was he would breach this unspoken social construct. When it got to the point where he was telling strange women they had beautiful breasts is about when they stopped taking him out in public. This is not some amazing red pill insight. Complimenting an inanimate object is always safe with any stranger, complimenting the secondary sexual characteristics of random strangers gets you locked in a room. Everything in between takes reading social cues.

No one likes people who invade their space too quickly, so what you see as push/pull red pill strategy is again, just normal behavior. Try meeting a male friend and immediately latching on to him like the best friend you’ve ever had. If he is neuronormative, it won’t go well. Watch how even animals interact. They typically circle, sniff and signal before deciding it’s safe to play. What you see as some push/pull strategy is simply getting to know someone.

People like flirting. People like small touching, an arm or elbow, before additional touching. This is the appropriate time when we can signal we are comfortable and welcome more, or graciously bow out by cutting the interaction short. Again, hardly some “red pill secret “. Again, you can’t even reach out and grab a dog out of the blue without risking getting bit. You present an open hand and pet them gently on the head before grabbing them by the scruff to play.

Since this obviously isn’t intuitive behavior to you, and you see this behavior as a “strategy “ it’s hard to separate out manipulation from acceptable behaviors that everyone employs to facilitate human interaction. I get that you might see saying “your bracelet is nice” when your true impulse is to say “your body is banging” is strategy, when you really don’t understand the importance of diplomacy and respect for personal space.

If you can’t sort out what behaviors are normal and welcome, and what behaviors border on sociopathy,....and if you have any interest in not being seen as a sociopath, I suggest you do what will probably be a huge challenge. Try to determine how the consequences of your behavior, even if it strikes you as false or just strategy, feels from the other persons viewpoint. Yes, I am suggesting empathy. If you really don’t think other people have feelings or their feelings don’t matter, carry on. I’m not going convince you that normal behavior is fine and actually welcomed while manipulation is not.

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killallthenarcs · 2018-05-06T02:44:05+00:00

If done correctly...

Pointless argument, you'll just say the countless examples of it not working and actually getting a guy a kind of a reputation as a sleaze bag you just don't invite to parties are examples of it not being done correctly.

TRPAndNofapGotMeLaid · 2018-05-05T13:14:34+00:00

Does this work online?

[Q4BP] Do you deny that push/pull, teasing, DGAF mentality and kino escalation works?

Comments

DOES THIS WORK ONLINE?

Title	[Q4BP] Do you deny that push/pull, teasing, DGAF mentality and kino escalation works?
Author	TRPAndNofapGotMeLaid
Upvotes	10
Comments	171
Date	May 5, 2018 12:52 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/8h7c52/q4bp_do_you_deny_that_pushpull_teasing_dgaf/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/q4bp-do-you-deny-that-pushpull-teasing-dgaf.262608 https://theredarchive.com/post/262608