(Rant) I think I've just swallowed both pills simultaneously and I'm freaking out

SpaceWhiskey · 2014-03-07T15:04:30+00:00

Have any women stood up to the deception, coddling and lack of integrity in traditional femininity?

Yes, actually, there are women out there who are over what I'd call "toxic femininity" and I'm one of them. I have, many times, given advice to women in my life that advocates them to be direct about their feelings and not to fall into tired, expected, gendered behavior.

There is, slowly, becoming a rising trend within feminism to call out women who enforce unfair double standards. No, it's not the norm, but it's trending in that direction. My social network pages are full of women who think the way I do, but they're still in the minority, and modern feminism is very much in a state of flux at the moment.

What I don't understand about TRP is their love/hate relationship with traditional gender roles. On the one hand, they want to remove all the negative "feminine" traits they deem obnoxious, like when women expect their male partners to be stoic/emotionless and problem solvers 100% of the time and shame male weakness, but they also want all the "positive" traits that are the flipside of the same exact coin. They want submissive, demure women who are soft-spoken and never challenge male dominance. They turn their noses up at the thought of forward, opinionated women, but also mock the women they're attracted to for being weak-willed.

Maybe this is me slowly coming around to rejecting gender roles entirely. Maybe both masculinity and femininity are so fundamentally beyond reproach and we should just abandon it all and just be plain human beings. I don't even know anymore.

I think this is healthy. Trying to shove yourself into a traditional gender role that doesn't make you happy is a miserable experience. My boyfriend hates football and loves the Food Network (I get him cook books for holidays and his birthday) and I'm never happier than when I'm playing video games and watching South Park. People should just do what makes them happy.

pillburt · 2014-03-07T14:15:38+00:00

Maybe both masculinity and femininity are so fundamentally beyond reproach and we should just abandon it all and just be plain human beings. I don't even know anymore.

And maybe music should just be monotone.

roe_ · 2014-03-07T15:47:47+00:00

I've plugged this video before - here it is again

Gender roles shouldn't be rejected IMO - there is much that is noble about traditional masculinity (protective instinct, the building of civilization) and traditional femininity (nurturing instinct, the care of civilization).

But - we need to close the respect & accountability gap (for women) and the empathy gap (for men).

[deleted] · Sat Mar 8 4:18:05 2014 UTC

[permanently deleted]

rulenumber303 · 2014-03-07T15:16:19+00:00

Have any women stood up to the deception, coddling and lack of integrity in traditional femininity?

You think mothers actually like seeing kind-hearted and ethical daughters ripped to shreds by the mean girls at school, even to the point of them becoming suicidal, and don't ever attempt to force schools to do something serious about that behavior before it becomes ingrained?

You would not have asked that question if you had stopped and thought for even a moment about the realities of growing up female.

lokidemon731 · 2014-03-07T18:19:37+00:00

A common trope illustrates this. "What's wrong?" asks a concerned man. "Nothing!" replies an obviously upset woman

If I had $10 for every time I said "are you angry?" and my boyfriend snapped out "no, I'm not!" I wouldn't have to donate plasma. It's honestly funny most of the time. People in general aren't honest with the way they feel, it's part of the human experience. I suppose it's more feminine, but white lies know no gender. Think of all the times that someone has asked you how you're doing or how your day is going: did you answer honestly every single time? When someone asks your opinion to them are you 100% honest no matter how bad? If your boss is an asshole, do you tell him that or are you polite to him anyway?

I don't think we ought to be honest with each other all the time. Have you watched that episode of House where the guy was incapable of telling a lie? It didn't go very well for him(if you haven't watched the episode, you should, I think you'd relate to House's position: Season 5, Episode 17). Voicing every horrible thought you have...not the best idea. And you may consider it lying, but many people consider it decent.

IIHotelYorba · 2014-03-07T18:59:10+00:00

I think the discussion about masculinity is so dishonest, so full of borked statistics stemming from misanthropic feminists and a general societal women are wonderful effect that it has to manually be pieced back together (to understand what it even is in your average man) with an incredibly high standard of evidence before we can talk about what is or isn't wrong with it.

pdx_rp · 2014-03-07T15:45:33+00:00

It's a woman's nature to try and shame men into a position where women get the most benefits without any hard work. It's called benevolent sexism. Women don't want to abandon the privilege of being applauded just for being a woman.

jacks1000 · 2014-03-08T20:38:38+00:00

Maybe this is me slowly coming around to rejecting gender roles entirely.

Good luck with that. Many of us, men and women, are perfectly happy in our socially reinforced gender roles. If you don't like it, fine, but don't expect us to follow you in your quest to "abandon it all" and "just be plain [genderless, sexless] human beings."

This is the most annoying thing about leftists in general, of all stripes. They have this presumption of morality based on nothing but the sound of their own voice.

I don't share your morality, and you've said nothing to convince me that I should. You want to "change society" to end gender roles - I don't want any part of it, and most people don't seem to either.

Just accept that you are the outlier and wear a dress, or whatever. Society isn't perfect, but it's far better than what you would turn it into.

theboiledpeanuts · 2014-03-09T19:17:56+00:00

A common trope illustrates this. "What's wrong?" asks a concerned man. "Nothing!" replies an obviously upset woman. This is considered completely acceptable and the more I think about the more it baffles me. It is effectively lying to people they care about.

This bugs me. 1. There is no reason the genders can't or haven't been switched. Unless you are telling me there is no instance ever when a man has been asked that question and lies. 2. This woman is "obviously" upset, so she's technically not lying. Using this premise, men lie more than women, since they're taught to mask their emotions. You can lie with words, or with body language, and you can even give conflicting answers from both.

I've recognised that the violence, wastefulness, greediness and lechery of traditional masculinity has to stop. Have any women stood up to the deception, coddling and lack of integrity in traditional femininity?

Have any men stood up to the violence, wastefulness, etc.? Yes, and some women stand up to the negative stereotypes of femininity. I hope you do reject gender roles, as they are arbitrary and culturally specific.

SpearOfTheDragon · 2014-03-07T14:52:09+00:00

"Nothing" in that context doesn't mean "nothing". It means "I don't want to talk about it". You say "nothing" instead of "I don't want to talk about it" because you know it's the only thing that will make the other person back off. The reason you don't hide your emotions as well is because you're not a manipulative asshole.

Telling their fat friends they look attractive

This might come as a shock to you but many of us are capable of seeing attractive qualities in people even if they are fat.

encouraging them to continue down the path of poor health

That's not how obesity works for most people. You don't think "Oh, I'm attractive because I'm fat. I need to get fatter!". I'd say a more common thought that would follow is "Oh maybe I'm not completely useless after all. I should do something good today". Most people who are fat are fat because they are incapable of motivating themselves to do something about it. Reasons for this lack of motivation can be that they have too much stress, are depressed or a million other things. Everyones psychology is unique to some extent but there is lots of research that will show you that negative reinforcement does more harm than it does good.

Faking orgasms

This is pretty much equal to saying food someone cooked for you tastes good even though it doesn't. It's not something you should be doing in a serious relationship of course but I fail to see any damage if you're never going to see the person again. It's not your job to teach everyone how to cook. It's not your job to teach everyone how to have sex. Besides, everyone has different preferences. The next girl might have a real orgasm.

encouraging men to continue down a path of substandard technique and dishonest sexual experiences

What does this mean?

Acting friendly to other women they despise, encouraging them to continue down a path of expecting treachery and betrayal from their own gender.

What does this mean?

Have any women stood up to the deception, coddling and lack of integrity in traditional femininity?

Yeah, we've been doing that for 200 years. Maybe you should read Mary Wollstonecrafts "A vindication of the rights of woman" from 1792.

Maybe both masculinity and femininity are so fundamentally beyond reproach and we should just abandon it all and just be plain human beings.

We should be aware of them and as a general principle we should use that knowledge to scrutinize ourselves instead of judging others.

fiat_lux_ · 2014-03-07T15:57:36+00:00

For many people, manipulation is ok when it's unintentional.

GridReXX · 2014-03-08T19:05:16+00:00

I want to believe. But if a women detailed what was bothering her so much that she'd rather not mention it because it'll probably not be cheery... I imagine TRP would call her nagging.

I hope not. But I wouldn't be surprised.

CrackheadHamster · 2014-03-09T03:02:25+00:00

A common trope illustrates this. "What's wrong?" asks a concerned man. "Nothing!" replies an obviously upset woman. This is considered completely acceptable and the more I think about the more it baffles me.

Here is something that is interesting to me. My husband does not stand for this which would be considered - Alpha - at the same time he is taking me off the pedastal and expecting me to be a mature adult -Male Feminist- When he is immature I also point it out he acts kind of pissy and then comes around just like I do - such beta- I consider myself totally bluepill, my husband is very masculine, and had a terrible mother, but he views everyone on a person by person basis regardless of gender, race, or sexual orientation. What I'm trying to say basically is that my husband has the "Alpha mixed with Beta" qualities that the Red Pill advocates for an LTR but, the fact that he doesn't subscribe to a subreddit that regards women as inferior is a huge huge plus. You guys should think about that.

moizer · 2014-03-10T14:30:49+00:00

I take a couple uppers

I down a couple downers

But nothing compares

To these blue and yellow purple pills

I been to mushroom mountain

Once or twice but who's counting

But nothing compares

To these blue and yellow purple pills

robesta · 2014-03-07T16:04:01+00:00

You're looking at this through a male lens. For the most part, women do not see that as lying. Women are emotional creatures. That's not femininity, that's biology. Women fundamentally see the world for a interpersonal relationship lens. Men see the world through a material acquisition lens.

Title	(Rant) I think I've just swallowed both pills simultaneously and I'm freaking out
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	12
Comments	94
Date	March 7, 2014 2:04 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1zt4be/rant_i_think_ive_just_swallowed_both_pills/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/rant-i-think-ive-just-swallowed-both-pills.286107 https://theredarchive.com/post/286107

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