Red Pill: How Basic Is This Knowledge?

flamingoinghome · 2018-11-08T11:35:14+00:00

I think a lot of these guys are just socially awkward but REALLY REALLY REALLY don't want to admit that, so they CAN'T just look into basic self-help/social skills stuff, they need a Grand Narrative about how They and They Alone know the Secret Truths. Unfortunately, like most Grand Narratives, this is laden down with bullshit. This is also why so much TRP stuff seems to come from an alternate universe where nobody has friends, and suggestions that you should make some friends are met with hostility.

Oddly, I know a few otherwise socially competent guys who have experimented with TRP/manosphere stuff. Guess how it's affected their love lives?

Willow-girl · 2018-11-08T12:41:45+00:00

Given that most children are growing up in front of screens, we may actually need Social Interactions classes -- and soon! :-o

AlanHalworth · 2018-11-08T13:20:35+00:00

I think different people have different propensities to be rule-followers. If you are a rule-follower, your easiest option is to be nice to people all the time, because "be mean to people all the time" is a dumb rule that doesn't work. When these people find that "be nice all the time" fails, though, they start to look for other rules. Your idea about "flexible" thinking is correct, but some people are not naturally flexible thinkers. I am a bit like that. I try to treat one relationship like another, looking for rules that I can always follow. Myers-Briggs, attachment theory, etc. 100 years ago, these people were attracted to religion, which provided rules for living. Today they look for rules from media, from their parents' "wisdom," or from RP. When they find a lot of rules about seduction on the internet, they are sucked in. The more people trust each other and need each other, the more rules and norms work. But today, relationships have a lower level of trust, more divorce, etc. It's relatively easy to get a job as a rule follower (just do STEM or computer science), but hard to get a relationship (because women value social skills.)

lefactorybebe · 2018-11-08T14:10:48+00:00

I really don't know, because I just haven't been around these types of people in real life. Sure, there were the weird kids in school, but they formed their own weird kid groups and dated within those groups.

The thing is, school itself is our social education. That's where we learn how to interact with others and with our peers. One of the weirdest people I've known was a girl who came to our high school in 9th grade. She had been homeschooled for her entire life, and she just hadn't learned how to interact with her peers. I don't think a social interaction class would ever really happen because most kids just figure it out on their own.

I think a lot of these "I've been lied to" guys just don't want to believe that they are the problem. It's easier on the ego to think that they were simply more virtuous, more moral, and because of that they fell for the lies society taught them, while others who were not as moral as them figured it out.

I've spoken about my friend Brian before, he was socially stunted and latched onto our friend group in high school. He eventually became a normal person, but he didn't have the attitude that these guys have. In his mind, he was the problem, he needed to change, it wasn't the world around him that was wrong, it was him. He was open to believing that he had messed up along the way, and he didn't blame anyone else for that. He didn't become this bitter guy ranting about the nature of women, or the lies of society, he was open to our advice and help.

So generally, idk where these guys got lost, but I think it's easier to blame women, society, the media, etc, for your shortcomings than to look inward and admit that you messed up and need to reevaluate yourself. And then once they get into that whole alpha thing, then they just have to double down on that belief.

HostileErectile · 2018-11-08T13:23:52+00:00

You're totally right, but there are so many socially retarded people out there. And there are so many especially men that doesn't understand nuances.

But in fairness I understand why it's hard. They are being told to be everything today.

You need to be in touch with your emotions, but also to be tough and strong, you need to be polite and affectionate but also rough and masculine.

It's understandably difficult to get good at. And when people ask me how to get good, I honestly don't really know, for me it just came naturally.

sawouthkay · 2018-11-08T17:22:06+00:00

You're overthinking it.

The TRP community is mostly bad because it attracts either miserable, broken men in search for guidance or toxic misogynists, with an overlap. But the main point of TRP is to elucidate human mating behavior and the conclusions of TRP are closer to the truth than those of the mainstream or feminists (which is the same) mantra.

To summarize it to basic self-help for socially inept assholes, while not totally unfounded, is way too reductionist. Pop culture and society in general effectively brainwash a lot of men into thinking women will be attracted to their moral character, their seriousness and ability to provide and when they eventually start to emit doubt, no one but TRP is there to show them how things actually are. Humans are amoral when it comes to their sexual behavior and its good that men understand it and take advantage of it.

[deleted] · 2018-11-08T13:56:13+00:00

The sheer number of people that seem to think "alpha" means "cold-hearted jerk" baffles me

And what do you think "alpha spectrum behavior" is? cuddly puppies and late night pillow talks?

At most, TRP is designed to build high beta traits. Unfortunately most men have to put on an asshole costume and pretend they're supposed to be alpha.

BirdManBrrrr · 2018-11-08T14:58:11+00:00

How long after childhood should a person be expected to blindly ignore all evidence they see around them that the world is darker than a Disney cartoon before they could be considered stunted?

It's easier to believe in the hope that things can exist in some happy ideal than to accept the world is a cold, dark place. This day in age if humanity didn't have that glimmer of hope NOBODY would have children.

I've never seen anything much about RP that was particularly new or innovative.

Correct. What RP has become is all that "not new" information consolidated and systematized into a counter-narrative against the prevailing thought around how men and women interact. Specifically for the older guys here, think about what we've heard our entire lives: Find your princess, Women are Wonderful, Happy Wife Happy Life, always respect women, make her happy, become a good husband, be emotionally open, the key is open communication, sacrifice yourself for your family, "wow, you're a great guy!" etc etc etc...that's the lie that a lot of men are told is their duty as men and when it comes to real life that framework leads to misery as men do all that and things still degrade. Try Harder!

At it's core is an assignment of blame: "Just be yourself" = it's not you, it's her = you have no impetus for change for the better to optimize your sexual and relationship success = "she's just a shitty person"

Rather than: RP = The problem is you, you're not attractive, and women lie about what they really want so don't listen to them.

Every time I or someone else here asked BP for a counter-narrative to RP in pop culture that struggling men could turn to it's 1. crickets followed by 2. Models by Mark Manson and sometimes 3. some obscure relationship book.

If this knowledge was so basic and so obvious, why are there so many disaffected, struggling men? Clearly if there was a compelling counter-narrative that led to men being successful in the SMV and fulfilled in life, surely its popularity would grow, right?

jax006 · 2018-11-08T15:09:42+00:00

I dont really get the OP. What are you asking. Seems to be a jab at RPers for not intuitively having the kinds of personalities that you seem to then talk about being developed by having parents who push you into things like whitewater rafting when you're in 2nd grade and highly socialize you by having you work customer service...

Like, I'm not going to go into detail but your childhood sounds so vastly different from mine it's pretty fucking obvious why someone like you "got it" while I didnt..

blackedoutfast · 2018-11-08T20:52:07+00:00

I don't relate to any of this.

that's pretty much the key sentence of your post. not even getting into the fact that you're transgender, you clearly had a very unusual childhood.

I'm genuinely surprised to find this doesn't seem to be as intuitive as I thought it was.

no, most of the RP stuff is extremely intuitive and natural. that's not the problem. and it's not Disney movies either.

it was all the parents and teachers and coaches and pretty much every other adult authority figure trying to suppress and discourage the very natural and intuitive ways of thinking and acting that RP teaches. they all actively encouraged the BP way of seeing the world. betaish NiceGuy stuff was encouraged while the more aggressive alpha type behavior was strongly discouraged.

and yes, the masculine ideas and ways of thinking and acting underlying RP did seem very intuitive, but just because something is intuitive doesn't mean its correct. it might be just as intuitive and natural to simply piss in the corner or to grab a girl's tits but that kind of behavior IS bad and inappropriate. and what happens for a lot of guys is that a lot of "good" intuitive RP stuff gets lumped in with the "bad" intuitive stuff.

the fact that you are a transgender and not a real male explains why you wouldn't have experienced this. you didn't grow up as a boy, so no one would have bothered to try to repress what they saw as "bad" boy behaviors.

in the modern world that we live in, when a little girl acts strong and tough and fearless, it's seen as a good thing to be encouraged. when a boy acts strong and tough and fearless, it's often seen as a negative sign of trouble. people start worrying that the boy is going to do something dumb and get hurt or get in trouble or end up going down a bad path in life.

Aaren_Augustine · 2018-11-08T10:57:01+00:00

("negging", "amused mastery", and "agree and amplify" could just as easily be called "bantering" and "flirting" by normies

Once you've learned the ideas, it's really fucking annoying to hear the terminology. You have to understand TRP's audience; they don't get it. The new guys have no clue what any of this is. That's how they first learn these concepts you take for granted.

The sheer number of people that seem to think "alpha" means "cold-hearted jerk" baffles me

I'd love to agree with you. I really would. This is filed under blue pill dreams too. But the type of women this works for...it REALLY works.

That sort of mentality would get people killed from a rafting guide's perspective.

Well there's a flood, but no one's drowning. Though, I'd love a social construct the reflected a rafting guides perspective; where both men and women work together for the greater safety and betterment of everyone involved...

do they still feel lied to about Santa Claus and the Toothfairy?

What's beta dad going to tell his son? You think he'll know about mommy's fuck days back in college? You think she or he will tell them about all the clubs and beer pong and random fingerings or bjs with people they didn't even know? Most parents don't.

You think a wife is going to allow her husband to tell her sons just how she acted? You think the wife is going to tell them all the ONS she had? Weekend side pieces? Weed and alcohol induced fuckery?

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Ezaar · 2018-11-08T11:59:48+00:00

The explicit nature of what could be seems most apparent. A lot of what I’ve considered seems to be psychological based and gender specific tactics to hold power, if you’re the “dominant male”.

However, what I get out out of it is a schematic for what could be if you’ve never taken the time to consider it experience these interactions before.

It did provide some clarity in how the world works/has worked, but it has to be coupled with experience and used with how you want to run your life.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2018-11-08T13:28:00+00:00

You dont relate to it because you are a woman and werent raised and socialized as a man

Million-Suns · 2018-11-08T19:16:24+00:00

Do people really treat Disney cartoons as models for how their lives "should" look? I mean... do they still feel lied to about Santa Claus and the Toothfairy?

You got it wrong OP.

If men were only misled by fictional stories they would not be in such predicaments. Even idiots can tell the difference between fiction and reality.

The problem is that men are misled by their mothers, their sisters and other women in general, who told them they need to be X (aka nice, caring, etc) to attract women, whereas in reality they need to be Y.

So when men take the red pill and they realize their own close relatives, the ones that should not have an agenda, and should help them, lied to them, they understandably reach the anger phase.

As long as women will mislead men, that anger phase is there to stay. TRP was also created as a counter reaction to those lies.

OhhDatDogOMine · 2018-11-08T20:55:57+00:00

I've never seen anything much about RP that was particularly new or innovative.

TRP is not meant to be new or innovative, it's about undoing all the brainwashing one goes through. TRP is, fundamentally, knowledge about human nature. Of course it isn't anything new.

The sheer number of people that seem to think "alpha" means "cold-hearted jerk" baffles me

I hear this all the time yet never hear anyone say alpha means "cold-hearted jerk". Where are all these people on TRP that claim asshole=alpha? Are you actually reading TRP or did you just want to rant?

[deleted] · 2018-11-08T23:21:18+00:00

Sounds like you had a good father figure. Most RPers, myself included, didn't. So you have the mom comforting you at all times without any of the tough love and advice from a masculine figure. since you dont have that full scope of life you turn to places that provide it - such as movies and television.

People come to the red pill as broken boys and leave it as developed men.

decoy88 · 2018-11-09T16:48:09+00:00

From what I've observed is that many of these guys have grown up in highly dysfunctional homes with abusive parents or at least one abusive spouse presenting them with a fucked up idea of how relationships are.

The "lies" are from their own individually fucked up upbringing not Disney.

And it makes sense. I have no idea how I would have turned out if I was constantly criticised as toxic and berated just for getting a boner.

Title	Red Pill: How Basic Is This Knowledge?
Author	Gravel_Roads
Upvotes	5
Comments	126
Date	November 8, 2018 10:43 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/9v8z0p/red_pill_how_basic_is_this_knowledge/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/red-pill-how-basic-is-this-knowledge.259155 https://theredarchive.com/post/259155

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