Resistance and switching roles

Valuable-Marzipan761 · 2024-10-19T19:32:55+00:00

Either can be harder, depending on the situation. If you have several children, all of which add to the chores, being home full time will be hard.

Althoigh there are examples of the SAHP not wanting to switch and go back to work, there are also plenty of parents who do choose to go back to work.

EugeneCezanne · 2024-10-19T19:19:34+00:00

I don't particularly like working for a living. But I would choose it any day over raising children.

Different people have different values, affinities and skills. We also have different job and ifferent kids. It's not always apparent who is working harder in either way. I'd say such generalizations are meaningless. On a case-by-case basis, either partner could be correct, or it could be too subjective to tell.

AngeCruelle · 2024-10-19T19:30:01+00:00

It's understood between my BF and I that I'm more suited for the provider role and my BF is more suited to be a SAH parent.

I think "fine, then why don't you take my place?" is a pointless gotcha. We know my abilities. We know his. I can't do everything he can, and he can't do everything I can. That doesn't make either of us inherently more valuable than the other.

His mother was SAH for his entire life essentially, my dad did it for a few years in my adolescence. We both know that the provider and the SAH parent fulfill complementary and highly valuable roles. I definitely think it would be a stretch to claim the SAH parent is more important, but placing them on the same level isn't an issue imo.

stats135 · 2024-10-19T19:27:04+00:00

where stay at home spouses with and without children complain that their “job” is just as hard, demanding, stressful as the other spouse who is out working 50-60 hours a week

With and without children are two VERY different situations.

I have never seen, I can't even fathom of, a scenario where a stay at home spouse without kids to work just as hard as 50-60 hrs a week of work. It takes like 10 hrs/wk max for a person to take care of themselves when single. Even without accounting for productivity gains from scale, it'd only take an extra 10 hours for an extra person. Like, girl, how many bf/husbands do you have? Unless you've got like 5 of em, you aren't working the equivalent of a 50-60 hours per week job.

blushingoleander · 2024-10-19T19:52:06+00:00

I've never seen a stay at home spouse (child free) complain that staying home is hard. Usually it's the stay at home parents who get sore at being told that going to work is harder.

I have a part time wfh job and two littles. We are home schooling. I spend a chunk of my day walking around picking up the same thing I picked up earlier in the day. The kitchen gets messed and cleaned several times a day. We drive to kid things and do kid things several times a week as part of the routine. And of course when someone is up early or in the middle of the night I'm the one to go without sleep.

I wouldn't trade with my husband because I like being able to be home with my kids but that doesn't mean that it isn't as draining as a regular 9-5 desk job. I've had a 9-5 desk job for 15 years before kids. I like what I do for work (something that requires licenses, math and moderate brainwork). For me, work is so much less stressful than being "mom".

The sensory overload of being a stay at home parents along with the baseline isolation is what puts working as an easier option in my book. I'm also on my feet a lot of the day and not plopped in a chair in front of a computer. And there are days that are really pleasant and easy but work was like that too.

I think people fight this battle because it's demoralizing to be constantly busy and on the go and then being told that your job isn't all that difficult. No one really defines why paid work is more difficult except that it is more hours. It's invalidating when you are basically on duty unless you are sleeping and sometimes even then.

TheRedPillRipper · 2024-10-19T19:29:51+00:00

just as hard, demanding, stressful

I’m watching a great episode on Modern Wisdom, with Alex Homosi about this. How one frames ‘work’ is self determined. The example Homosi uses, is that he is at his most fulfilled, when he is working. Grinding. Leaving nothing in the tank. I’m the exact same. Love it. Absolutely derive the most satisfaction, fulfilment, and enjoyment from working. It could be spring cleaning the whole garage out. Proofreading or drafting contracts. To folding laundry, or teaching myself to replace an iPhone screen. For me time flies, primarily because I am immersed. The issue isn’t the actual work. It’s how one frame’s the work. That determines how subjectively ‘hard’, one perceives that work to be.

Godspeed and good luck!

apresonly · 2024-10-19T19:21:02+00:00

I would rather work 100% than take care of kids.

Kids are exhausting. I was babysitting my sisters kids and couldn’t even find 5 min to order them a pizza. After 8 hours I gave up and asked her to come pick them up early.

No way I could do that every day.

Meanwhile I love working my job and don’t mind it at all. It’s fun to use my brain and be in charge of projects. It sucks to be at the beck and call of children and their never ending needs.

Sharp_Potential3660 · 2024-10-19T19:13:10+00:00

If being a stay at home spouse is so much more difficult why would they not want to trade responsibilities?

Usually it’s the lower-paid spouse who stays home, so reversing roles means the entire family has less resources in the near-term and short-term (retirement, etc).

Also has anyone had experiance in both rolls and can shed light on which one is truely more difficult?

I’ve never been a stay-at-home partner and am even childfree… because I know that it would have a huge negative impact on my mental health. Some people are better suited to being at home, some people are not cut out for it.

alwaysright12 · 2024-10-19T19:15:56+00:00

Being a sahs/p is absolutely not as hard as working and it's ludicrous to suggest it is

TJshimensoka · 2024-10-19T20:15:17+00:00

I don't think anyone should be full time stay at home spouse if there isn't any children in picture. The lack of structure makes life just worse.

In my opinion unless there is a significant income difference between parties both should be working full time. If there is a notable income difference, I'd advice lesser earner to go part time if possible and do majority of housework. This happens to be the arrangement I would like to have in the future.

CatchPhraze · 2024-10-19T20:33:28+00:00

I've personally found the people who are stay at home parents who find it easier, tend to be taking care of themselves and the kid, and the working parent fends for themselves and helps a lot while at home.

So it ends up being like a 35/65 split. Where the working partner pulls more weight. (This is most common with sahd, studies show) But when it's actually the stay at home parent who does almost all childcare and cooks/cleans for both adults too, they have like no free time. So it ends up being like 65/35 that way.

Kids don't power down at 6pm when the working spouse gets to do it. They also don't only need things Monday-friday during office hours.

The only couples I've seen that do a sahp that seem 50/50 is where the working parent gets the weekday evenings to do rnr and the stay at home parent gets the entire weekends to relax.

The stay at home roll, at least until the kids are in school tends to pull way more hours.

badgersonice · 2024-10-20T00:46:27+00:00

If being a stay at home spouse is so much more difficult why would they not want to trade responsibilities?

So, your premise is just the most famous “I Love Lucy” episode of all time. You know, the one where the boys and the girls switch roles for a day, so Fred and Ricky did the house chores and like exploded the oven with bread, and Lucy and Ethel famously worked at a chocolate factory and totally could not keep up with the factory line … and in the end they learned to appreciate each other more?

The purpose of switching roles was supposed to be for you to appreciate each other, because this snobbish, condescending view you have of stay at home wives is pretty unbecoming. What most are asking for is for their husbands to actually appreciate and respect the work they put in towards raising the kids and keeping the home they way these trad men say they want women to… and your message to them is that their work is… well what exactly?

What are you really trying to tell women? Becauase what it sounds like is that you are very eager to tell women that housecare and childcare work is easy and unworthy of respect and appreciation. It’s just so easy and fulfilling like a vacation! How dare mothers think they deserve respect! The very nerve!

serpensmercurialis · 2024-10-19T20:30:51+00:00

I think it’s the same reason that people who own a small business or work for themselves often work harder than people who work in an office. If you are not lazy or entitled and you are family-oriented, then your internal standard for how you take care of your own children is almost definitely higher than any external standard at your workplace.

Rather than having someone externally give you feedback, you are constantly in a state of self-monitoring. Your boss isn’t aware of every little inefficiency or mistake you make. They can’t be - they aren’t mind readers. But you have complete view of your own thoughts and actions, and when combined with high internal standards and constant self-monitoring, it can be extremely stressful. Basically, imagine if your boss was unforgiving and micromanaging, and could read your mind and see every single thing you do all day. Constant criticism without the benefit of a higher authority to help solve whatever problem it is or lead you. You can’t just externalize and say your boss is being an unreasonable dick and brush it off either, because the criticism is coming primarily from your internal self.

I think this type of thinking pattern is, on some level, normalized in most women for things considered traditionally feminine. Homemaking, physical appearance, caretaking, emotional matters. When women say men wouldn’t stay at home and do things “to their standards” what they are talking about is the internal standards women set for themselves. Men look at what women do and think “I could do that” without realizing the part they are lacking in women’s minds is the internal value system behind it.

The problem lies in the fact that even if a woman is outside the home, her internal value system for her family doesn’t go away. As much as women don’t want to admit it, there is something ugly about seeing someone take over such an important role (taking care of children) and half ass it or only seek to meet the standard. And for him to still look to her as the external manager instead of making his own internal one.

And you can say this mindset is toxic all you want. Men have this type of value system for all kinds of shit, including stuff that is comparatively unimportant. Nobody is going to give one single fuck about your Valorant stats 10 years from now, but they are going to care about the human you raised. If there is one single facet of life where it is worthwhile to care too much instead of too little, it is in raising children.

lle-ell · 2024-10-19T22:24:26+00:00

Why on earth would either spouse not work if they don’t have any kids? Makes no sense to me. On the other hand, I’d rather work outside the home for 40 hours a week or more than take care of one or more kids full time.

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ICallFromEveryShadow · 2024-11-19T18:40:43+00:00

I will never be a SAHM. I saw the work my mom put in 24/7, 365 days a week. Being responsible for little lives and how they turn out. Being a parent with no breaks or days off. I've done welding and warehouse work my whole life since 19 and I'm a 5'6" F, 130lbs. I will choose work any day. I actually really enjoy working. Breaking a sweat and having a skill set that I can rely on to earn me a living. Give me rough conditions, heavy lifting and machinery, paperwork, benefits, PTO and a paycheck. That's my personal decision.

Usually the reason they don't want to switch is because they don't know if they can get back into the workforce easily and make as much as the working partner currently is, especially a woman getting back into the workforce after a long time, as opposed to a man who has been in it continuously or recently. Similarly, they might not fully trust that the other parent who hasn't been a stay at home parent, either ever or for a longer period of time, will be able to suddenly jump into it and handle it well. Not even because you don't trust them, but because it's a lot of juggling to throw at someone (school and activity schedules, meals, watching and teaching kids through day-to-day ordeals and handling tantrums, emotions and fights, cleaning, shopping, appointments etc.). Even if you work at a job that absolutely drains you, you might stay for the money because it's safe and you're settled into it. It's like that feeling, except it's your kids on the line.

Now, do I think one is more valuable than the other or provides more? I mean, that's subjective and perhaps dependent on the day. If someone is providing money for a standard of living, but doing absolutely nothing for their partner and kids because they think that's the main requirement, then that seems like an issue. If a stay at home parent is doing the bare minimum of parenting and doing nothing else for the standard of living or their kids and partner, that's a problem. Sometimes, the person working is going to go to work and do practically nothing for a nice salary and then come home. If they do jack after, I wouldn't say they're putting as much in, but the income is still vital. Sometimes a parent is going to put in a lot of effort into parenting or keeping house and earn no income. In a society that requires income, I'm going to say that wouldn't be enough on its own. Some people work themselves to the bone at work, and still put in effort for their family at home. Some people put in effort to be a stay at home parent and take care of their family and also help bring in income.

It really shouldn't be a competition from the start. If you can't agree on what responsibilities each partner has and what qualities they bring to the table, and you can't also be appreciative of those things, do you really have any business being a couple?

63daddy · 2024-10-19T19:21:18+00:00

A big reason society is hypergamous is because overall, women prefer to be provided for rather than be providers. This of course also relates to studies of the gender earnings gap which clearly show the gap is caused, at least primarily by different work choices. Men are much more willing to work more hours, have longer careers, accept dangerous or unpleasant work in return for higher pay.

Most people I know would prefer to work less, so of course most women won’t opt to work more if they don’t need to, it’s more that it’s easier for women to work less and be provided for than it is for men.

Ylduts · 2024-10-20T05:22:30+00:00

Any job you can do in your pajamas isn’t hard. It may be important/vital but it isn’t hard. You want to do this….

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Or do you want to watch Bob the Builder? Be honest with yourself.

Title	Resistance and switching roles
Author	RoblesTyler1988
Upvotes	3
Comments	131
Date	October 19, 2024 7:01 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1g7g1j4/resistance_and_switching_roles/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/resistance-and-switching-roles.1533077 https://theredarchive.com/post/1533077

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