TRP & "shit tests" then false accusations

quicklogaccount · 2017-02-07T11:28:36+00:00

Do the men of TRP actually believe that a woman saying no/stop is just a "shit test"?

While laughing and teasing, yes.
But "forcing" isn't a proposed solution to get past it. The answer for it would be push/pull.

And that claims of rape stemming from this would just be yet another "false" rape accusation?

Rapes occur through abuse of force. Why is this an issue?
Was there violence? Rape.
The girl "gave in" to his persistence and annoyance? Not a rape. He used his strength or locked the door to prevent her from leaving so she'd "give in"? Rape.
Venting moment. English speakers seem far to lenient with drunkwards. I wonder if the people that understand that one is unable to consent under influence of alcohol is also non imputable if it happens to hurt or kill someone while driving under influence.

Furthermore, what do the women of TRP believe re: these two things? Do they want to have sex with every single guy that's hitting on them?

It would be more interesting if you added "every handsome, interesting and confident looking guy". Waiting to hear from them.

But wouldn't that make them a "slut" by TRP standards?

Wanting? Nope.

Lastly, why is being a "slut" cause concern for VD but men sleeping around doesn't?

VD stands for Venereal Diseases?
Lots of guys look into rationalizing their problems with high n-count women for various reasons and come up with this sort of crappy excuses. They need a bit more of time in TRP.
High n-count women, as well as high n-count men, are more likely to be poor partners for monogamous relationships. We usually understand that this is worst on the male side because the male will forfeit his optimal sexual strategy in the moment he enters the relationship. As soon as agrees to monogamy there is social pressure for him to be loyal, infidelity hurts his image. But restraints for the female's optimal sexual strategy aren't absolute, she can always swing.

IIHotelYorba · 2017-02-07T14:35:41+00:00

Ok, there's just SO much to disentangle but I think it is worth it since to my mind this is the core of complaints about TRP (and even PUA to a lesser degree.)

There's several issues going on:

Feminists often pretend token resistance doesn't exist- token resistance is when a woman says no in an attempt to impress a man by making him think she isn't "that easy." This is not refusal as the entire concept is that she wants him to push past her "no."
Feminists often straight up don't understand what is legally considered consent- Let me make this abundantly clear. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE VERBAL CONSENT. I don't remember what the term is called but as long as you cooperate with someone in most cases the law will consider that you giving consent, as long as there was no threat/implied threat given to FORCE your cooperation.

What feminists do is a combination of two things. They have always hated and raged against what the actual legal standard is, and they have begun to believe their own press when it comes to the relatively recent activist idea of "enthusiastic verbal consent," and repeat this (or a version of it) as if it were the law. It isn't. Ask a cop, ask a fucking lawyer.

Shit tests are a similar concept as token resistance but not the same- by definition a shit test is when a woman seems to like you but then without provocation suddenly insults you, turns against you, or simply asks you an odd probing question, specifically in the context of finding out who you "really are." This is a TEST comprised of giving men SHIT, done to men she LIKES, to see if their personality changes when she stops validating them.
TRP's standard for what a slut is adapted from ideas that come from Roosh "why educate women?" V- This is not the PUA standard. Roosh actually believes in the idea of good virtuous girls who basically never sexually experiment. I think women have been the same way for 150,000 years. Yes there are some who are sex addicts, or validation addicts. But in general most women have an enormous amount of prospects, and their partner count reflects this, and they have a lot of men who they "don't count."

Put another way, most women sleep around a lot and would probably be considered a slut not just by TRP but by most blue pill men if they knew the truth, which is why most women lie or are not forthcoming about their sexual histories. I consider this odd because if this is how most women have always been then that's kind of how they're "supposed" to be. You simply will not find hardly any virginal women, and virginal 10s who haven't lived their entire lives on a farm in Iceland or something basically don't exist.

Entropy-7 · 2017-02-07T14:16:44+00:00

1) There is a distinction between the "soft no" and the "hard no". There is actually a third type of no but it is so dangerous these days that it is rolled in with the soft no which basically means "stop and try again shortly". The hard no is "not gonna happen for a long time, if ever". The soft no is standard ASD and a test to see if the guy is willing to remain in pursuit.

2) If a woman gives a soft no several times then has sex, any rape accusation from that would be false. With a hard no that the guy ignores, and then he jumps all over her, then that would be a real rape.

Lastly, it's a concern both ways. The TRP concern is more psychosexual. If you are a guy who is sleeping with lots of women, you should be more concerned about VD than the women because it is your dick.

Edit: The above is theory and certainly not legal advice. In Canada there is an infamous case where a guy responded to a series of soft nos until she didn't say no. He was charged with sexual assault and the girl (surprise surprise) said she was too scared to keep saying no or to leave or to take any physical action. The guy was acquitted at trial and then convicted on appeal at the Supreme Court. A man needs an extra step to get around this, and in particular the YMY crowd.

Alth12 · 2017-02-07T14:03:20+00:00

Women are conditioned socially to not want men they like to view them as easy or slutty. A lot of times when she says no and you wait a bit and try again she'll go for it. In fact if the guy takes that no as definitive and doesn't try again shell lose interest. Really the no is a plea to slow down, and not really controversial as its widely acknowledged that female arousal isn't as binary as mens.

But that's LMR not shit tests. Shit tests happen , maybe not to the level of absurdity as some TRP folks would have you believe. Example : In a lot of early interactions the girl will poke fun at you. That's a test to see if the confidence you're showing is a false front or whether you're as comfortable in your skin as you make out.

I don't think women are going around consciously testing men, it's more a non conscious (animal brain) way to help find a desirable partner and to weed out the poor choices and the fakers.

daveofmars · 2017-02-07T14:46:55+00:00

It's contextual. Everyone, not just TRP, knows that a someone saying "No" doesn't always mean No if they're being playful or coy.

Sometimes No mean No, sometimes it means maybe, or keep working. "Stop", however, always means Stop. There is no ambiguity there unless you're doing role play.

Lastly, why is being a "slut" cause concern for VD but men sleeping around doesn't?

Women are more likely to catch venereal diseases because of their indoor plumbing. They're also less likely they know they have them and are thus more likely to unknowingly spread them.

LewisCross · 2017-02-07T14:36:36+00:00

Do the men of TRP actually believe that a woman saying no/stop is just a "shit test"?

Not really, it's LMR. If she's being playful and teasing, then yeah it's a shit test. If she's being serious, it's not a shit test. It's LMR. I personally never did push pull or anything else when I had a woman saying "no/stop/don't do that"; I just disengaged.

And that claims of rape stemming from this would just be yet another "false" rape accusation?

That's a gray area. If a woman eventually consents after putting up LMR; saying "no" then saying or implying "yes", then a claim of rape after that is a false rape accusation. Anything less than a clear, firm "no" followed by action consistent with that "no" is too ambiguous. If you say "no", then mean it, and that means you leave, you tell the guy to leave, you get up and leave the area where he is, you refuse to engage him further.

I really don't understand why this is a problem. When I was in school in the mid to late 80s and then early 90s, young women had no problem at all doing this, even when pretty drunk. What changed? Were you not taught the meaning of the word "no" and then how to get up and move away? Are you not learning how to tell a guy "NO" and then just leave or tell him, very firmly, to leave? WTF is wrong with doing this?

But wouldn't that make them a "slut" by TRP standards?

If a woman has sex with every, or most, guys that hit on them, then yeah, she's a slut. Wanting to have sex with a lot of guys does not make a woman a slut; it makes her normal. What makes her a slut is her choices and her conduct.

Lastly, why is being a "slut" cause concern for VD but men sleeping around doesn't?

VD is "venereal disease" or sexually transmitted disease, I assume.

It's a lot easier for a woman to pick up an STD than it is for a man. Certain STDs are easier to transmit from women to men. But STDs are really beside the point for most TRPers. The advice is to assume all women are sluts, all women are sleeping around. The advice to TRPers is to wrap it every time, not only to avoid STDs but also to avoid unplanned pregnancy and being tethered to a child support order for 18 years.

Promiscuity affects men and women differently. Men seem to get burned out with having lots of sex with lots of different women. Seems to make them jaded and bored.

For women, promiscuous sex with a lot of men exacerbates preexisting mental/emotional issues and personality disorders. Just about every promiscuous woman I've ever met or heard of had some sort of mental/emotional issue, either preexisting and causing her promiscuity, or caused by her promiscuity, or made worse by her promiscuity.

From observation, women who have a lot of promiscuous sex get accustomed to using men and being used by men. It's all a game, it's all about what she can extract from him. It ceases to become fun and enjoyment, and starts becoming about gamesmanship, getting what she can when she can get it, and then discarding him when she's done with him. She does not deal with men from a place of fun, excitement, enjoyment, or wonderment or discovery. She deals with men from a place of fear, anxiety, dysfunction, control, demands, expectation, entitlement, and ultimately disillusionment and moving on to the next one.

Or with the high value men she can manage to get for a night or three, it's all about repeated disappointment when she can't get him for commitment (and she almost never can). To her, all men become just like the next one. It doesn't matter if it doesn't work out with this one, because another man will always be just around the corner. She is very well aware that men are interested in her, interested in fucking her. She uses that knowledge to extract what she can from men: Gifts, meals, entertainment, validation, affirmation, bragging rights with her frenemies, and maybe commitment for a while.

It also ups her taste for alpha such that she becomes unable to be attracted to men who actually WILL offer her commitment. She eventually can't be sexually attracted to the mid to high betas who might actually offer commitment to her; because she's become accustomed to alpha treatment. She doesn't want the mix of alpha and beta; she wants hardcore foot stomping bull alpha dick, and won't settle for anything less.

That's the problem with sluts.

disposable_pants · 2017-02-07T16:03:46+00:00

Do the men of TRP actually believe that a woman saying no/stop is just a "shit test"?

And that claims of rape stemming from this would just be yet another "false" rape accusation?

As others have pointed out, you're talking about the concept of Last-Minute Resistance (LMR). No rational person can use TRP's advice on "pushing past" LMR and ignore a sincere "no."

File this one under "blue pillers don't read the material they criticize."

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2017-02-07T16:19:14+00:00

TRP doesn't claim this. "No" is no. LMR is like "we shouldn't do this" or "I don't have sex on the first date" while making out.

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exit_sandman · 2017-02-07T14:50:16+00:00

Do the men of TRP actually believe that a woman saying no/stop is just a "shit test"?

Partially.

It can be a stone-cold rejection. ("don't touch me, you creep")

It can be totally serious. ("don't touch me, I don't like this so early on")

It can be negotiable. ("don't touch me, I am not yet comfortable enough")

And it can be a shit-test ("why didn't you touch me? ...who care that I said that you shouldn't do it?")

phantasic79 · 2017-02-07T16:35:49+00:00

I wanted to comment on the shit test. In real life men run into this very often. Let me put this into context we are talking about going out to a crowded area where there are lots of beautiful women who tend to get hit on in this venue. One example would be a club in Vegas. I have been in situations where I approach a woman and literally just say hello. I'm greeted by a f*** off followed by an insult. I power through this first insult by saying something completely unrelated. And all the sudden we're all friends and I'm making progress gaming the girl. Sometimes it ends well and other times it doesn't go anywhere. Point is shit tests are real and it seems like women don't even realize they're doing it. They seem to do it as a quick screening method to shoot down all the unconfident Larrys.

Now if you were at a funeral and try to hit on a woman and she told you that she really doesn't like to talk right now I would not consider that a shit test.

prodigy2throw · 2017-02-07T23:14:34+00:00

I think if a woman really doesn't want to fuck she will say STOP. Which I think is universally accepted in TRP.

The whole shit test/ LMR theory arises when you're in bed with a girl, had naked, finger banging and she pulls out the playful "Noooooooo not toniiiighhhttt". That's when it's more likely a test. Even then, the advice isn't to just bend her over and force yourself on her. The advice is to fall back a bit, cool down and then go back in.

GroovyEFS · 2017-02-07T11:17:31+00:00

Do the men of TRP actually believe that a woman saying no/stop is just a "shit test"?

No that's not even what a shit test is, you're thinking of "LMR." But all this means is that while in a more casual social setting, a no can be turned into a yes. No one sane believes if a girl is screaming no you should just bang her anyway.

And that claims of rape stemming from this would just be yet another "false" rape accusation?

No because see above. The advice given is not to simply fuck a girl while she's telling you "no get off me."

I'm not even a terp and I know this shit, you seem to be operating on the caricature from TBP. You don't need to make up crap like this to criticise TRP, there's plenty more legit things to make fun of.

Title	TRP & "shit tests" then false accusations
Author	msminnamouse
Upvotes	3
Comments	169
Date	February 7, 2017 11:06 AM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/5sksq1/trp_shit_tests_then_false_accusations/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/trp-shit-tests-then-false-accusations.270215 https://theredarchive.com/post/270215

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