What toxic femininity is

bonerdude420 · 2017-04-30T02:46:57+00:00

I don't agree with most of these. Seems like a list of things you personally don't like.

Toxic femininity would be things like; double-speak, hostility by proxy, gossiping, shaming, isolating people close to her from their support networks.

WhiskersNT · 2017-04-30T01:44:59+00:00

"deciding what people other than yourself should be like is toxic"

"Most of the values of other women are wrong"

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2017-04-30T13:20:18+00:00

I think NOWs hero, Emma Sulkowicz aka mattress girl is a great example of toxic femininity enabled by female privilege.

Princeso_Bubblegum · 2017-04-30T03:43:40+00:00

Feminists call it 'female socialization.'

soccerstar77 · 2017-04-30T01:41:28+00:00

You are inserting your own subjective ideas about toxicity here. You seem to be believe a woman not wanting to be a leader is somehow toxic? Something is only toxic if it is damaging or dysfunctional to that particular persons's life.

lets everyone walk over her (teaches others that treating her badly is ok and doesn't get what she wants. Will stay with a violent or cheating man (note: there are other reasons women will stay with a violent man, such as fear of him killing her etc))

Ok, agreed is toxic.

is too soft and yielding (cannot discipline her kids, never asks for what she wants in the bedroom)

Not toxic. Not all people believe in disciplining children. Parenting is highly subjective in method.

What if a woman likes the man to lead the way in the bedroom? What is toxic about this?

gives people too many chances and is too nice (cannot express her anger or frustration)

This is only toxic if she gives chances to the wrong people. This is a philosophy of life for some people, men or women.

is too clingy (demands too much emotional feedback from people)

This is only toxic if she lacks the ability to be independently sustained. Some people are more emotional and expressive than others.

believes all women should submit to men, be domestic and very 'feminine' (deciding what people other than yourself should be like is toxic if they're happy as they are. It's also toxic because many women of the past were unhappy being domestic, submissive housewives and she wants to drag everyone back into that past.)

This is not toxic. This is your own subjective political opinion. Many women can enjoy being trophy wives or house wives. Guess you never been to Asia or South America much.

cries to get attention and is very emotional often (drains people)

How is this toxic? What if someone's personality is naturally very emotional?

jealous of other women

Ok agreed toxic

jealous of other people's houses & possessions

Toxic but not tied to femininity

large spending on cosmetics, plastic surgery and clothing that she can't afford (Because she's desperate to be pretty)

Not toxic. Beauty is highly subjective, lots of women are happier after plastic surgery.

GavinSkulldrinker · 2017-04-30T21:59:05+00:00

No, these aren't toxic femininity.

Toxic femininity would be

classical female backstabbing passive-aggressive friendships where women spread rumors, or try to have sex with their friend's past or current boyfriends just to prove superiority

Slut-shaming. Like, baseless slut-shaming. I think that women and society should be "allowed" to tell a woman who's actually engaging in self-destructive behavior that what she's doing is dumb. Casual sex with random dudes is really easy for a woman to get, and it feels like love and fullfillment, but it doesn't lead anywhere.

Compulsive people-pleasing. Saying whatever you think someone will like, regardless of what you actually think, and completely changing your opinion once the person isn't present.

Entitlement; expecting men and society in general to do shit for them. Related to this is agressive helplessness; dealing with problems by very obviously giving up and trusting someone else will swoop in to save you.

Behaviors associated with Borderline and Histrionic Personality disorders.

Regarding men as dumb beasts of burden that owe you everything and you owe nothing, also viewing men as dangerous animals that need to be taken out Harambe-style if they show the slightest sign of disobedience.

Using your weakness as an excuse to to justify treating everything as a threat.

I know it's a human universal, but I associate women with being particularly willing to engage in petty cruelty when society gives them the all-around to do so (in the case of discipline, or public shaming), or being really good at keeping their heads down and being obedient little drones in an abusive system. Anyone can do this, but it just seems like women do it more often/better.

IamTheWalkingMenu · 2017-04-30T15:25:10+00:00

Many of those things have little to do with femininity and a lot more to do with character.

HateIsTheOnlyTruth · 2017-04-30T02:42:37+00:00

This sounds like a swell person to me. I would love to have a willing domestic slave who never questions my will, is obedient and relies on me for everything. Why is this considered toxic? Feminism makes no sense whatsoever. Something went horribly wrong in history if the female gender's only redeeming characteristics are now considered toxic.

TheBlackQuill · 2017-04-30T01:19:02+00:00

gives people too many chances and is too nice

What is wrong with the above? Being nice is not a bad trait to have. If anything, too many entitled and rude bitches these days.

internalised misogyny (belief that women can never be "as good" as men and that strict gender roles should be adhered to.)

What is wrong with this? It is not like women can never be as strong as men physically anyway.

prodigy2throw · 2017-04-30T01:48:40+00:00

If you want to see toxic behaviour you'll find it in anything.

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PieceBringer · 2017-04-30T07:40:04+00:00

Toxic femininity is manipulation, shaming and deflecting blame. This was basically women brainwashed by "patriarchy".

Just a way to imply it exists but still blaming men.

ShitArchonXPR · 2017-04-30T12:22:23+00:00

If this definition were logically consistent, we would observe an IRL correlation between traits just like with traits on Altemeyer's Authoritarianism Scale.

Let's test one example of several traits and see if they have a positive correlation:

believes all women should submit to men, be domestic
internalised misogyny (belief that women can never be "as good" as men and that strict gender roles should be adhered to.)

Now, we know that women who grow up as religious fundamentalists are certainly inculcuated with these. Let's see if those correlate with:

is too soft and yielding (cannot discipline her kids, never asks for what she wants in the bedroom)

"Are women who believe in male supremacy, 'women shouldn't ask for things,' etc. more likely to not discipline their kids?"

cannot discipline her kids

Why then do most fundie women who believe the "women should submit to men" stuff tend to beat their kids and be psycho disciplinarians? Good luck finding a Pakistani woman who isn't a psycho disciplinarian. Does this mean Muslim women lack Toxic Femininity despite the extreme ~~misogyny~~ sexism in Islam ("sexism" sounds better verbally than "misogyny"; also, modern feminists will use "misogyny" instead of "sexism"--the latter might imply that bias against men is wrong and that you should seek equality instead of supremacy-for-your-tribe)?

Sure, BitingBeaver is a harsh, abusive mother as you'd expect for a radfem, but who is more likely to oppose spanking children: hippie women or conservative women?

But let's accept for the sake of argument that they correlate or what-have-you and the naysayers are wrong about that part. Let's take the following traits:

hates everything about her face and body (Because she's desperate to be pretty and spends way too much time thinking and worrying about it)
eternal innocence (she can do no wrong because she's a feeble woman and not a terrible, nasty man. Cries to get the sympathy of others and is always the victim) [TRP translation: hypoagency and hamstering]

In the case of these traits, how do we know they are purely societal conditioning and not neurology and the side effects of estrogly? Prenatal hormones affect neural circuitry and current hormones affect thoughts and behavior. Just ask anyone who has transitioned.

alreadyredschool · 2017-04-30T12:49:42+00:00

Wait what?

Toxic masculinity is expecting men to be virtuous, righteous, courageous

Toxic femininity is women being bitches with a shitty personality?

SetConsumes · 2017-04-30T16:01:55+00:00

This list is bad for reasons others have pointed out.

However, you're also not touching on another form of toxic masculinity, how the feminine values placed on men hurt men and weaken them.

Most Nice Guys are over socialized with feminine values, toxic femininity is what made them.

breakfasttopiates · 2017-04-30T18:04:24+00:00

None of these are toxic femininity imo except for the double speak and reliance on prescription meds parts.

Otherwise this is just another SAHM and trad women suck you go girl! type spiels

despisedlove2 · 2017-04-30T03:07:14+00:00

Good job deflecting this into another "misogyny" story, when toxic femininity primarily targets and destroys men.

Toxic femininity is the individual form of feminism.

PurpleBanner · 2017-04-30T03:47:37+00:00

I knew one day this thread wold come. I knew it.

One day feminism and its bigotry will be stopped.

Title	What toxic femininity is
Author	IckyStickyPoo
Upvotes	10
Comments	92
Date	April 30, 2017 12:59 AM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/68cuex/what_toxic_femininity_is/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-toxic-femininity-is.268525 https://theredarchive.com/post/268525

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