Your self worth.

onacasserole · 2016-12-04T18:21:35+00:00

If I could speak to my younger more insecure self I'd tell her not to worry so much about aging. I'm addressing the looks thing since that seems to be what's bothering you the most.

I was terribly afraid of getting older and "losing my looks". The truth is, it isn't some sudden drop off unless you really don't take care of yourself. I'm sure if you placed a high-def photo of me at 18 next to one of me now you would see some differences in skin quality, I'm not saying there aren't any changes. However, I have not noticed any drop off in male attention from age 18 to 31. Honestly! I definitely don't look 18, but I'm an attractive woman. I have a great figure, a pretty face, and I don't have any fine lines yet. I wear the same clothing size I wore 10 years ago.

The other thing to keep in mind about aging is that while part of it is inevitable, we'll all get wrinkles eventually, the way most American women age is completely avoidable. Sex appeal and allure is different that pure youthful good looks. European women maintain their sex appeal well into their 40s and beyond. Cultivating that internal femininity, dressing beautifully, and generally trying to look as good as you personally can will put you lightyears ahead of the rest. Check out photos of women who are 35+ in Italy, Spain, and France, you'll see what I mean!

When people see you they aren't seeing you next to a younger version of yourself, all they see is what's in front of them. Your voice, your mannerisms, your charm, all of that adds to your appeal. When you carry yourself with internal confidence and a sense of your inherent beauty as a woman that translates to other people.

I know this may go against TRP concept of the wall, but IMO when you see a really steep drop off in a woman's attractiveness it's typically because she has zero girl game, has given up, or had very little to work with. If you are reasonably attractive, stay physically fit, have a great skincare routine, keep your hair and makeup styled, and dress well, you will be better looking than most American women. I'd say I'm more attractive now relative to other women my age than I was when I was younger. Me at 18 compared to other 18 year olds...I was probably a solid 7. At 31 compared to other 31 year olds, I'm closer to a 9. This isn't because I've gotten hotter, of course I haven't, but other women in my age group have seriously let themselves go. Nearly all women in their 30s are overweight, and many are so discouraged by the fact that they're getting older that they throw in the towel completely. They dress like frumps, get fat, cut their hair short, wear crazy loud makeup and jewelry instead of stuff that's flattering, and carry themselves without any elegance. I'd say I noticed it starting at around age 26-27, slowly but surely everyone started packing on the pounds and abandoning fashion.

While some sense of approval will always be external I think it's necessary to internally accept and love yourself. Some of it comes with age, I love myself more now than I did at 20. I was much more insecure back then, actually. I found that practicing gratitude every single day, and not thinking about my self so much helped me cultivate internal satisfaction. When you get in that mindset of worrying to much about yourself, do something for someone in need. Volunteer at a soup kitchen, help a friend, etc. That will make any issue you have seem laughable.

Kara_El · 2016-12-04T15:13:58+00:00

I get my self worth from my friends and family and my career. I know my value because I'm surrounded by people who love me and because I make a difference in the world every day.

jtnno · 2016-12-04T17:07:14+00:00

Thinking that society will see us based on SMV is very hard to live up to, I agree that it is not a good idea or should be an option to consider to live up to. To answer your 4 questions Are there other ways to derive self worth as women? Where do you ladies get your sense of worth? Is it extrinsic or intrinsic? Yes there are few, as women we are constantly surrounded by envy, and a lot of judgment more often from us (women) than from men. Surprisingly we follow that pattern and fall into it. In my teenage years I was surrounded by family and friends. Family will try to love and genuinely love you, how you are, however in a lot of cases comparisons are made and that starts creating some sort of "competition" with who they compare us to or we often fall into creating this competition with ourselves in a negative way. My views were completely extrinsic, and it took me 11 (12-23 years old) years to find out that all I had to do was love my self and find the values within me and those are the ones I had and have to live up to. The common values we are taught are Love, Respect and Resposability. Love I asked myself the following questions to truly find out how I could up to them. How can I love my partner or friend if I don't love myself? If I am constantly judging my appearance based on others and not how I wanted? Respect How can I help the needed if I cant help myself? When I look in the mirror, and judge those things we call "flaws or imperfections" am I truly respecting my body the way I should? If my eating disorder is affecting my life, it is obviously harming my body, How is that Respect? Responsability This one was a struggle for me to understand and day by day I realize how much I still have to learn. This helped me: Ask yourself where you are in your life, are you living for the present and present only? How can I be responsable if Im not looking out for my future? What are my dreams? Am I accomplishing them by taking action in the present? To answer your last question If you met your younger insecure self, what would you tell her? Life is a Journey to Live. Live free and live according to the values that you find on the way and decide to keep. Don't lose your essence because it will bloom day by day. Life wont give up you, so don't give up on "her".

MiddleClasshole777 · 2016-12-07T04:55:57+00:00

Guy here. Looks are paramount of course but some things that affect value beyond appearance are how crazy you are (ie don't be), submissiveness (don't act like a strong independent feminist and break our balls), your friends, music taste somewhat (maybe more for me personally, and from a relationship perspective, I like it when she likes similar music), artistic talents are really cool and unique too so if you can draw or something that's cool, allowing men to hang out with their friends without giving them a hard time, etc. Lots of guys like a girl who can give them masculine fashion advice, since most guys struggle with fashion. In fact, whatever feminine talents you have that can help our weaknesses like that. SMV isn't all about looks or what you give your man, there are tons of basic bitches but if you can do unique things other girls can't or don't and have cool talents, that definitely gives you an edge.

MsSadieDunham · 2016-12-04T21:00:32+00:00

Looks are fleeting, that's where your skills and how you treat your relationship and SO come into play, if we are looking at this question from a romantic relationship perspective. A man isn't going to just up and leave his wife even though she's getting older if she is still investing herself in the relationship.

I am a nurturer so I love caring for people. When my family is well cared for it makes me feel good.

TheLaughingRhino · 2016-12-07T05:03:26+00:00

Is there other ways to derive self worth as a women?

In general, there is "who you are"

And there is "what you are"

What you are - Your career or job, what you look like, your age, the kind of house you have, the kind of car you drive. Things that can be taken from you

Who you are - Your character, what you do when things go bad, how you react to not getting what you want or getting everything you want, how you react to having power in some arena in life, your sense of humor, etc, etc.

Internal validation is embracing who you are, and you do positive things for you, to boost what you are, as a natural consequence. I would see this as emotionally healthy. As you age, as aspects of what you are fade, but who you are, no one can take from you, you simply make the best of you in each given circumstance.

External validation is embracing what you are, what most people and most women tend to do sadly. You do positive things to keep that cycle of feeding from others from said external validation, their compliments and approval. Who you are tends to not matter to these people, not deep down, as they are too concerned with shifting to best get those compliments and forms of social approval at all costs. As you age, you can't fight Father Time, and without the external validation, the person falls apart.

Love yourself, be your biggest fan, see yourself as the prize, do good things for you, for your sake. Any external benefits are icing on the cake.

Embrace who you are. Embrace the few people in the world who will do the same, who value you for you and your best internal qualities. These are the people that won't leave you if you lose your career, your looks, your status, etc.

People with healthy self esteem associate most with others with healthy self esteem. Choose people who see you for more than what you can do to make them feel good about themselves. They will help you in your darker moments, to remember to always strive to be the very best version of yourself.

My 2 cents. Good luck and Merry Xmas.

munchinggobbles · 2016-12-05T06:29:30+00:00

I never related the looks and self worth too much. I am short, curly haired & with freckles and in my teens my parents didn't take care of me much (so I couldn't buy clothes or go to a hairdresser or anything that would have helped me, it sadly also made it much harder to obtain "taste" - apparently this is not inborn to women, duh) so people at school made more than clear that I had hit the wall before I even got my breasts :) I pretty much only use the looks now because I need to look like a lady otherwise I wouldn't get business/lease/paperwork etc.

My self worth comes from what formed me, most of which were painful events that I keep at heart and don't talk about normally.

PinkTulipz · 2016-12-04T17:18:14+00:00

My extrinsic value I'd say is only from the absolute closest people to me - my mother, my SO, and 2 of my friends. They are all honest people who have been there with me through thick and thin, and have deep trust in. As long as I have healthy relationships with them, I feel I am on the right path and have meaning in their lives as much as they do in mine.

The same goes for my personal goals in my education and career.

Although, I'd like to add, looks are still a factor in how I value myself. I don't expect to be in my 20s forever - I'm aware aging is inevitable. I don't consider looking my best to be limited to my 20s.

Eating as healthy as I can (while still, you know, enjoying my life and eating delicious things here and there), exercising, taking care of my skin, and dressing well is important.

Giving your body care and respect enhances your own self worth, and while it will not keep you from getting older, it's a reward on its own.

i_have_a_semicolon · 2016-12-05T01:26:30+00:00

Wow this is a loaded question. Yes you should hold yourself up to standards in all facets of life. Not just looks.

rainyweathergirl · 2016-12-04T17:57:55+00:00

Over the past year my appearance and how I compare to other women have began to matter less and less to me. I still groom and make an effort to be neat, clean and tidy but I really don't care anymore about how I compare to women in the street. I have always been very plain looking and it used to bother me. I thought men were only with me because they were 'settling'. Then I learnt more about the red pill and realized that this isn't necessarily a bad thing. We all settle to some degree in life. Also, more attractive women get stopped and pestered everywhere they go. I personally have a lot of social anxiety and I dont think I could handle being the center of attention all the time. There have been quite a few times when men have stopped or followed me in the street, despite my plain looks. It always made me feel really awkward and really nervous. I imagine to myself if it happened all the time, and just how self conscious I would feel. I have always enjoyed blending in and have never been one to like standing out. I didn't think of this much at all before. Also, my kids changed the way I felt about life, as did nearing 30.

yakuzaou · 2016-12-04T21:44:37+00:00

I'm still very young, so I do derive some of my self-worth from my looks, but there are other aspects. Fertility is also a big part of what I perceive my value to be, oddly enough. Intrinsically speaking, women have a lot to offer. Women are kind and nurturing by nature, and those are wonderful qualities; I'm sure society agrees. Women are also have an inherent social intelligence that men lack unless they actively train their minds for it. These are mostly stereotypes, of course, but I personally value those aspects of myself. I might not be young and fertile forever, but I will always strive to be loving and nurturing. If I met my awkward high school self, I would tell her to stop seeking validation from others, and rather focus on finding that validation within.

Willow-girl · 2016-12-04T23:55:27+00:00

I'm a hard worker and employers have rewarded my ambition with promotions, etc., so I guess I've always derived satisfaction from competence, the ability to do stuff and (hopefully) do it well. That extends into home life as well ... I like my house to be tidy and I'm a bit obsessed with gardening, lol.

To be honest, I'm an average-looking woman, so I have never placed much emphasis on appearance beyond being clean and presentable. I don't spend huge amounts of time on my hair, nails, makeup, etc. ... there are just other more interesting things I'd rather be doing with that time. I honestly don't think "looks" has ever been the basis of my RMV (such as it is, lol).

ModernClassicLady · 2016-12-05T07:04:02+00:00

For most of my life, I definitely based a lot of my worth on looks... and it worked. Men said I was pretty, compared me to famous people, and I felt validated. A few months ago, I noticed my first fine line - husband didn't notice, doesn't show up in pics, I'm sure no one else notices yet - but it caused a minor identity crisis for me. I felt ugly and old and YOLO all at the same time, acutely aware of my lessening value and my own mortality. It was hard to deal with, all over a tiny wrinkle.

Over these past few months, I've been looking at older women with admiration for continuing to give it a go despite noticeable wrinkles and other signs of aging. I've been thinking about how childbirth will probably further screw up my body since it does that to most women. I've been trying to find value somewhere else.

My husband is quick to compliment me on my kindness and a myriad of other things, but it doesn't give me the special feeling I acheive when being complimented on my looks.

I'm not a vapid, shallow person who only cares about looks by any means. In fact, I truly didn't even realize they were important to me until I noticed the wrinkle. So, it's been an interesting time...

Mentathiel · 2016-12-05T17:23:13+00:00

You're judged by your looks as a potential sexual partner or a sexual rival. In any other context, all other hierarchies/traits that are desirable in humans apply to you as well. It's just that this context is often present and dominates in a lot of situations, so you can't quite separate it from other things. But even the scale a romantic partner is judged by is, while correlated, separate from sexual partner scale, so even when it comes to sexuality these things get more nuanced, let alone when it comes to friendship, familial bonds, respect, professional life, strangers etc.

I'm not actually sure where I get my confidence from. I used to be pretty awkward in elementary school and I was somewhat insecure (not too bad and not too appearance-focused, tho), but something just changed and now I might even be a bit on the arrogant side. I suppose one of the big things was learning to understand and empathize with people who bullied me and people who disliked me in general. Viewing things from their perspective made it pretty obvious that they're focusing on factors they consider important or are self-conscious about and that, even if I could use some work on those factors, they aren't truly grasping the entirety of me and rejecting me, they're just dismissing me based on a detail. That made their input even useful, as I could see what others focus on, what they notice about me and I could see what other people appreciate and like, what attracts them. So it might have been that.

But regardless of what made me grow past my then insecurities, I'm not sure what fuels my confidence now. It probably has to do with social/emotional life a lot, but once you kind of go over that hurdle of being insecure you no longer seek validation in every moment and go insecure as soon as someone ignores or dismisses you, it now takes someone going far from normal social interactions to phase me. I suppose I just tuned out, I never even consider what other people think about me anymore unless it strikes me as interesting.

Oh, perhaps it could be said like this. Once you've established your identity and negotiated it with society and it has accepted to see you as you see yourself, that conflict disappears and you no longer feel the need to put any emphasis on that unless you change or your environment suddenly responds differently. Thus slight discrepancies can be interpreted as exceptions and dismissed, while you would've obsessed over them if you weren't sure of what your identity is.

Spazzy19 · 2016-12-07T21:08:34+00:00

I'm working on getting myself back to my extremely confident later teenage self (now almost 33) because while I keep myself fit and stylish, I don't place my worth in my appearance. A long time ago (like age 14) I realized I didn't need or want a boob job (still small chested) because it helped me vet out guys who just wanted to be with me for superficial reasons. However, through various traumatic events, I later made the mistake of placing my self worth in the hands of the men with whom I dated.

Outside of that, my self worth comes from my life accomplishments, learning experiences and the ability to share them -good or bad, and priding myself on being a person of integrity and compassion.

Artemisa_of_Persia · 2016-12-09T05:14:38+00:00

My dialogue to my younger (14 year old) self: "You are a reasonable person. No one else in the world has pondered over your flaws and advantages as much as you have. No one else is as invested in your success. If there is something that truely bothers you about yourself, you have the ability and will to improve. That said, where are these insecurities coming from? The celebrities and fashion magazines that want to parasite off of your parents' money? The snide looks from girls at school, who regularly call each other "sluts" behind each others' backs? Don't expect to get self-esteem from the outside, especially in a predatory world. You know that true self-esteem comes from the security of having a well-cultivated skill. Something that nobody can take away from you and you don't loose with age. So you can always say to yourself, 'I have something that I love to do and I don't need anyone's approval to do it.' "

Title	Your self worth.
Author	munchinggobbles
Upvotes	22
Comments	46
Date	December 4, 2016 2:56 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RedPillWomen
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/5gfqwq/your_self_worth/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/your-self-worth.86699 https://theredarchive.com/post/86699

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