Doing it for yourself, the pervasive hamster

HitlersCow · 2014-04-21T15:40:41+00:00

Great post combatting the bullshit I've been seeing here lately about just being happy with yourself.

Something I've realized regarding the difficult dichotomy of not caring what people think but also working incredibly hard to make people respect you and validate you externally is as follows:

We always hear don't give a shit what girls think. Truthfully, you should not care what any individual woman or person thinks of you. Some chick doesn't like you? Forget that shit. She's one girl. But you should absolutely care about your overall success with women and people in general. If one individual thinks you suck, well, you can't please everyone. But you absolutely need to find people who think you're the shit.

Being willing to have certain people dislike you is not only a good quality but an absolute necessity if you are ever going to find people who love your qualities - you have to differentiate yourself, and be willing to piss people off. Haters to the left. Like my grandfather used to say, you're not doing anything right until somebody wants you dead. But if nobody finds you valuable, you're doing it wrong. You need to build yourself into the kind of person that can attract similar-minded individuals.

Edit: Thanks for the gold

IllimitableMan · 2014-04-21T17:54:09+00:00

Edit: This post is now a blog post: http://illimitablemen.com/2014/04/22/the-power-game/

robesta · 2014-04-21T16:24:57+00:00

My personal experience is: once I got on TRT at 200mg test EW, I stopped giving a fuck about how other people perceived me. I'd worked on building that frame for a while before that, but the test made the frame my natural disposition.

Another thing to consider. IMHO, the more people think you give a fuck what you think, the more they will challenge you. For people who naturally give a fuck, this is a negative feedback loop. Meanwhile, if people think you don't give a fuck what they think, the opposite will happen and you'll get a positive feedback loop.

Validation is effeminate by nature. Men thrive on the real output, women thrive on social interactions. Women, even when they succeed at their goal need validation. Men, completing the mission is validation in itself. There are people in between these two extremes, but I think it's pretty accurate overall.

[deleted] · 2014-04-22T08:00:04+00:00

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

The whole point in preaching a disconnect from external validation is not that "what other people think of you doesn't matter because you're a beautiful snowflake".

The point in preaching a disconnect from external validation is to get men to stop thinking in terms of serving the needs of everybody else, and to get them to start thinking in terms of serving their own needs, which is the number one problem with men today.

It's this HYPER-AWARENESS and over-reaching desire to earn external validation that produces the 'nice-guy' and results in anxiety and depression.

If you're working out and making a shit-ton of money just so you can earn the validation of women, you may look alpha, you may smell alpha, you may act alpha, but inside, you're beta because your entire existence revolves around you servicing the needs of women.

vandaalen · 2014-04-21T15:44:30+00:00

Well I'd say that both are tied together.

You cannot be successful without being confident. To be confident you will have to become the best possible version of yourself. To become this version will require a lot of hard work.

The thing is that everybody knows his flaws pretty good deep inside but lives in denial of them, because it's easier to blame god and the world for his failure. Fat people know they are too fat and should change. Ungroomed men know that they stink and look like Pig Pen. But they are also too lazy to take change.

So basically telling somebody to do it for himself isn't that wrong. Everybody ultimatly depends on the validation by others. But "I want people to know me as the nicest person" and "I want to be admired by people for being the most successful person" are different kinds of validation.

I completely disagree about the morals though. There is of course a good and and a bad way. The light side and the darks side. You can either choose to always act selfish and create win-loose situations or you can create win-win situations.

i.e if you manipulate your partner in a relationship using the RP-knowledge you gained will not only make you a happier man but also your partner a happier woman.

This isn't considered as being good if you apply today's western ethics but is morally, and moral is universal, completely good.

Edit: In the contrary fucking around with people just to satisfy your sadistic traits and your hunger to feel power is not good.

steadymotion · 2014-04-21T15:43:51+00:00

there is no good, there is no bad, there's no right way or wrong way, there are only those who succeed, and those who fail.

Yep, you got it. I've been telling people this for ages. Drop your fucking ego and sense of moral righteousness and admit you're a sad sack of shit and you need to put in some work to make yourself more attractive so people will like you. That's real happiness. You can only be happy with yourself when you're happy with how you're treated by people around you.

Freiling · 2014-04-22T03:30:04+00:00

This is the side of TRP that I like c:

Rollo-Tomassi · 2014-04-21T18:25:36+00:00

This is just Crisis of Motive: http://therationalmale.com/2013/07/18/crisis-of-motive/

redrick_schuhart · 2014-04-21T21:36:07+00:00

Jack Donovan's The Way of Men points out that a man's real validation comes from other men. His explanation of the meritocracy based on the masculine virtues - strength, courage, mastery and honor - that quickly forms in any group of men is very compelling.

Do the work. Drive yourself until you succeed. But make sure your external validation comes from other men: men better, stronger or more courageous than yourself.

Infinitezen · 2014-04-21T18:49:45+00:00

"People who score high on a Machiavellian test need no reminding. There is no shame, there is no good, there is no bad, there's no right way or wrong way, there are only those who succeed, and those who fail."

It's this attitude that has our whole society and environment going down the shit hole. I agree that we all need validation, but morality is definitely tied to happiness and social cohesion. You might "succeed" but you are implying that success is worth any cost, and it's not. What I define as alpha is able to build and create value, and then attract mates, without slash and burn tactics which are both personally self destructive and destructive to society.

I'm not asking this as an insult by the way, but have you ever considered that you might be a sociopath? Again, I'm not trying to call you out or anything, your statements just lead me to believe that might be the case.

TheD_ · 2014-04-22T04:47:48+00:00

majority of success with women for me right now won't be found in getting 25 lbs on my bench, getting better at passing guard or making 10k more a year, but by taking action with women now.

[deleted] · 2014-04-21T16:29:44+00:00

[permanently deleted]

GayLubeOil · 2014-04-21T22:57:00+00:00

You know that high estrogen makes you feel realy good right. If you have High estrogen, you will be bloated however you will also have a heightened sence of well being. Don't believe me take dbol. Still don't belive me? Bring your estrogen down to zero with letrozol.

endocrinologyfacts

gargintua · 2014-04-22T04:11:03+00:00

self improvement is not about being lazy, its about IMPROVING. and theres a difference between bending backwards for every single person you meet and not giving a fuck what the haters say (i hate that term).

ShitlordInExile · 2014-04-22T05:54:16+00:00

Wait, this can't be right. All the new redpill posters have been assuring me that all you need is confidence.

Just kidding. Excellent post.

[deleted] · 2014-04-22T06:35:59+00:00

People who score high on a Machiavellian test need no reminding. There is no shame, there is no good, there is no bad, there's no right way or wrong way, there are only those who succeed, and those who fail. What you tell yourself in between will either motivate you, or rationalize your failure. Recognize what you are, set your goals, and stop fucking rationalizing.

:'-)

That was fuckin beautiful

ChauvOtoo · 2014-04-22T07:04:15+00:00

I agree with 99% of what you're saying.

I think that the advice of "Stop listening to what someone tells you to be and do what you want; go fucking achieve something" has become "just be yourself".

The fact is, that when someone is telling you to be something else; there is a fucking agenda. If it's a chick, she wants your dick or your cash (most of the time cash because she wants dick that tells her what to do, not the other way around).

I agree with the idea of "Don't care what people think of you", but it's not in the sense that some take it. It's not about "being yourself", it's about taking charge.

I would change it to this:

"You should care about how you are viewed by almost everyone, family, plates, co-workers, wife, etc. However, they won't view you in the way that you want them to; until you stop giving a fuck how they view you."

long-lostfriend · 2014-04-22T07:52:47+00:00

A lot of truth here.

People get hung up on the false dichotomy of "living my life for me" vs. "being in constant pursuit of the poon." While a monomaniacal fixation on getting laid is a pretty juvenile approach to life, being desired by desirable women (as well as having the respect of respectable men) is a very worthy goal. It is a mark of distinction and serves to validate the general self-improvement that one is making in life.

mr_throwz · 2014-04-22T16:53:51+00:00

Is the "external validation" for others or for...

...yourself?

vengefully_yours · 2014-04-22T19:52:49+00:00

Do guys do that? Give up and hamster away that they cant get laid by saying the don't want to? What kind of butthurt loser does that? I can see being disgusted by how women are shallow, vapid, and uninteresting outside a series of moist holes, but to not want to fuck?

let_terror_reign · 2014-05-23T18:27:38+00:00

Saving

FemtoG · 2014-05-28T15:59:17+00:00

The mindgame I play is to have such high expectations of myself that if I fulfill my own expectations, then external validation comes freely and easily.

RedSunBlue · 2014-04-22T00:44:48+00:00

You cannot write off women just because you suck at them.

Welp, looks like you just sunk the MGTOW movement.

tigolbittiez · 2014-04-21T15:31:50+00:00

I was always under the impression that the self-improvement movement (heh) that TRP pushes was just for making yourself a better man in general, such that more people will be attracted to you/look to you as a leader, a real man.

I mean, I guess this is to say that I figured the implication that you are making yourself better such that it raises your perceived social status was always there. There's a reason things like SMV are used here. We openly acknowledge that raising your social status is the desired goal for most of what is preached here, from lifting weights to acting more confident and not taking bullshit.

Am I missing the point of this? Are there a lot of people here who read the sub and "participate" but have the mindset that they are okay with being a virgin and they aren't worried about what other people think? I can only assume that's the major source for most of what you wrote here, considering the tone you took. You believe most people here haven't actually swallowed TRP.

I can't prove otherwise, but I have to say, I don't agree with where this post is coming from. I realize you mean well, but I don't know where you're getting the idea that TRP is preaching self-help to tame our inner hamsters. According to phrases like raising your SMV, we are practicing the exact opposite.

Though, I can see how this would help newer members or those that haven't quite yet ingested TRP. For anyone else who felt the same as I did, take what I just said into account, this is more helpful of a read to newer members, or those that may have lost their way.

barneygumbled · 2014-04-21T15:58:38+00:00

External validation is obviously important, but in my humble opinion this validation is more in the nature of feeling appreciated, rather than gathering a herd of male sycophants and female sluts. I don't care if the image of myself is appreciated, I want 'what I do' to be appreciated. But ultimately the basis of all this for me has to be enjoyment of the process, enjoyment of the improvement and the work for the sake of it.

I have no interest in what Machiavelli has to say. He's not an objective arbiter of success.

In the end, the question I'm going to ask myself on my deathbed that will be the ultimate test, the ultimate judgment, is "do I live with regret?" I can guarantee that the number of sluts I bedded and currency I accumulated will bear close to zero impact on the answer to this question.

jadedspade · 2014-04-21T18:31:01+00:00

Fuck I needed to hear this so BAD! Thank you so fucking much for this post I just felt a fire light inside of me. I have been especially more jaded than usual these past couple days because of some rejections and I was debating going MGTOW and fapping my life away.

This is a nice slap in the face to break that train of thought and start a new one. Lets fucking go bitches.

[deleted] · 2014-04-21T19:55:32+00:00

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opgrop · 2014-04-21T20:37:22+00:00

There's nothing wrong with a healthy dose of narcissism, which is essentially another permutation of just "doing it for yourself."

You don't need external sources to tell you that health is attractive or that money and drive are nice to have. As long as "do it for yourself" doesn't turn into a way to rationalize inaction, there's nothing really wrong with it. There's a difference between self-validation and no validation at all.

Aspire to be a person that YOU respect and admire. Only answer to yourself and hold yourself to some standards. Do that and the external validation takes care of itself because everyone already has similar views on what's valuable.

The problem isn't "doing things for yourself." The problem is deluding yourself about the type of person you truly want to be in order to avoid the work and discomfort to get there.

bassivemalls · 2014-04-21T21:41:59+00:00

First of all, let me preface this by saying Red Pill theory is just that--theory. It's knowledge that you can choose to do with what you want, so there really is no right or wrong way to do anything, but since you are arguing there is, I'll argue your point.

I often see people on the forum, much like redpillschool here in this post, become filled with hatred for some reason when they see other people saying people should live their lives making themselves happy. They seem to take this viewpoint personally for some reason.

I don't get the hatred these men have for people who self improve because it makes them happy. Allow me pose a question to the non-nihlists here on this subreddit: What is the point of life? I personally think it is to maximize your happiness while you're still alive. How you feel in life is literally all that matters. Let me repeat that statement: How you feel in life is literally all that matters. That's it.

Some people feel happy to have other people admire their gains at the gym or when their boss tells them they are such a hard worker, or when another guy tells him "Damn, you really can pee farther than me. You should be really proud of yourself, especially since I told you you should be."

Then there are other people--people like me who work hard and get shit done, not because I give a shit about what my boss thinks about me, but because I set goals for myself and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside to reach those goals on my own. I think, "Damn, I'm good." Sounds fucking weird doesn't it--a man deriving pleasure all by himself. Now, don't get me wrong of course I derive pleasure from external validation, but for some guys, it's just not the main thing.

I mean you even say in your post:

External validation technically is for you.

Why can't I just cut out the middle man?

So, concluding here, I'll say you really have no grounds to say how anyone else should be happy and that people should just do whatever makes them feel the best.

chill_geddy · 2014-04-22T04:03:17+00:00

If I buy a 120 dollar fitted t shirt niggas and niggets a like better recognize the fabric if not I have know problem telling them

swallowpls · 2014-06-25T20:41:54+00:00

lmao i wonder how many frames crashed and shattered after reading this

[deleted] · 2014-04-21T17:35:58+00:00

I sometimes give out the advice to limit external sources of validation/self-esteem/happiness, but not for the reasons you cited. It definitely isn't to help them rationalize their misery and doom them to wallow deeper in mediocrity.

It is because most people who view themselves as failures despite focusing all their energy on pleasing others and seeking their approval are completely misreading people. They're too deferential to their acquaintances (not friends), SOs, family and professional superiors. They have a very weak internal sense of self-esteem. They've bought into a skewed perspective where everyone else's opinion matters more than their own. They start becoming risk averse to avoid dealing with the outcomes of failure, which can be devastating to someone this addicted to validation. Getting these kind of people to buy into the notion that they're allowed to form their own opinions and pursue there own interests is difficult.

Encouraging them to cut the cord and start focusing on themselves helps them take a step back and really analyze their life and stop the cycle of approval seeking behavior. Once their attention is diverted back to prioritizing their own needs first, they'll be much less likely to settle for being mediocre.

iluminatiNYC · 2014-04-21T18:06:55+00:00

I think the best to look at it is that a opinion doesn't matter, but individual opinions do matter. One observation isn't something to pay attention to, because that's subjective. If the same people notice the same things about you, it's worth your while to pay attention. Just don't lock on to any one concept.

laere · 2014-04-21T18:15:42+00:00

This post sort of does make sense. I mean although you're technically working on succeeding in life, you're really just getting external validation as a byproduct in that way. I guess this would be different then constantly going out and seeking it?

cooltrip · 2014-04-21T19:58:37+00:00

I c&p myself ...

"Anatomical Alphaness brings you women --->> women bring those women's appreciation and admiration for you and your own Alpha qualification --->> This external appreciation for you, from other people, brings you your own internal appreciation for yourself, that is, your self-esteem --->> But this "self-esteem" is not that "self-" since its very first origin relies on external people's appreciation/admiration for yourself; you esteem yourself because others esteem you too, and this happens because you esteem those other people too, and this happens because you need those other people, and this happens because you are weak; so, other people based self-esteem is a weak self-esteem, a dependent self-esteem, not that "self-".

You need non-dependent self-esteem: your self-esteem should not be conditioned by others esteeming you, but it should rely on your own objective and material capabilities and achievements.

Yes, it falls within independence/individuality, but you don't want a faked independence/individuality, but an independence/individuality founded on objective and material capabilities and achievements of yours."

The "for yourself" from "do it for yourself" means that you don't want a self-improvement merely consisting in getting to have sex with girls no matter how ugly and non-Alpha you are, but you want a self-improvement genuinely and authentically consisting in yourself having genuine, authentical, actual Alpha traits, so this achieved self-improvement or Alphaness will attract, by itself, women wanting to have sex with you. So you don't work on women so you get to have sex with them, but without actually improving yourself; but, instead, you work on yourself, so you give yourself authentic and genuine improvement and Alphaness, so this Alphaness will attract women.

I can get even further: even if you know how to have sex with women by beta methods, you don't want to have sex with women as a beta, but as an Alpha. This means that, if you have to choose, it is better to apply yourself to become an actual, genuine, authentic Alpha that won't have sex with any woman; than to apply yourself to get to have sex with women as a beta man or a non-Alpha man.

So YES, DO IT FOR YOURSELF.

paradox_life · 2014-04-21T20:29:38+00:00

Not caring what other people think give you 2 critical things if you want to be successful in ANY area of life. Those are confidence and freedom.

Let's say you're fat. Does this affect your success with women negatively? ABSOLUTELY! Should you work hard on getting cutting that fat? ABSOLUTELY! Does the belief that women get turned off because you're fat help you? ABSOLUTELY NOT! And let's face it - you always will have an aspect of your life that you're not good enough or not at the level you should be judged from an external view. Either finances, appearance, sense of humor etc. You should definitely always improve yourself as best you can. But beyond that the right mindset IMO is "Fuck what everyone thinks, I'm awesome enough and I'm getting even better". And that my friend is true confidence. Is it necessarily true that you're enough at all aspects of life? Nope. But you have to believe it.

When it comes to freedom, there is nothing better than not giving a fuck what people think. When you give a fuck about other people's validation too much you fall into the social conditioning shit where you cannot act or think outside the box. You cannot express yourself to the fullest because some people will hate you. IMO the more haters you have, the more successful you are. You will get a lot of haters but also the people that love you will truly cherish you. Haters gonna hate. Never let them stop you express to the fullest, being your true self.

[deleted] · 2014-04-22T00:37:21+00:00

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rj88631 · 2014-04-21T21:37:10+00:00

It is about the difference between healthy need for external validation and being an attention whore or needy for any positive attention.

If you cry about no one paying attention to you all day, that is a day wasted not doing things that command attention and respect. Positive actions over empty positive thought.

redpilltree · 2014-04-21T21:47:08+00:00

I think "doing it for yourself" needs a clarification.

If I go to the gym and tell others I'm "doing it for myself", it's true when speaking specifically about the end result of what I want, rather than the means to get that result.

I want (satisfying) sex.

But in order to do so I have to raise my SMV to attract the prospects that I want, to engage in an activity I want and love i.e. sex. Obviously I improve my body's aesthetics to get approval from women but that is but a means to the end of what I want, again, i.e. sex.

Same applies to any other venture, I work to get approval from key individuals/groups because I want to receive good(s)/service(s).

TL:DR Everyone's a selfish cunt just not everyone is honest about it.

Unexpected_Error · 2014-04-21T23:06:30+00:00

I don't think anyone is saying that people don't need external validation. However, one of the main take-aways I've had from taking the pill is that vying for external validation is almost a guarantee of not receiving any. If you improve your SMV and don't give a fuck (or at least pretend not to) about receiving external validation, then the validation will come flowing. Paradoxically, the most natural thing to do is actually the worst.

Also, to the replier who mentioned TRT: I agree, once my test levels got decent I started needing significantly less external validation.

macsenscam · 2014-04-21T23:20:30+00:00

This is true, but I will add the caveat that if you can mentally not give a shit people will sense that and it can help you get respect. Think of the word "cool," it essentially means not giving a shit. So there is a balance to walk here.

P0eticJustice · 2014-04-21T23:36:15+00:00

From the Already Red post that I commented on.

For perspective, I came across RP about August/September '13. I think was before the massive onslaught of new users from countless AskReddit threads, etc. Anyways, I came to it, as you said, as a way to get laid, wondering why being nice pandering to women etc etc wasn't working. It opened my eyes, fantastic all that good stuff. However, it was different then say, r/seduction because it allowed me to see its not all "be an asshole/douche = get laid". It went more in depth into how the mind of women (and men) think and what it means. Being a real man in this world is about all the stuff, doing what you want to get laid, or rather have the opportunity if you so choose to approach and get what you want, be it a ONS or LTR.

The quality of the sub has degenerated, from the "hardcore", slap in the face, "face the reality of what the world is", into something more subtle, where a lot of posts these days are BP examples (which can help, but we don't need a whole front page of them) or "I don't need women, I'm so alpha/RP".

Changing oneself from a stepped on beta to a get-what-he-wants alpha involves so much. Part of it is working out, inner game, all that good stuff. However, the way I see it, is getting laid is the ideal way to see if it all is working for you. Whether or not you want to get with a women shouldn't be decided before approaching, it should be when she's purring at you somewhere just before going in.

I believe that this new MGTOW-like movement has one purpose: It's yet another way for guys who can't get laid to be considered equal to those who actually do get laid. In other words, it's a way redefine success in the sexual marketplace as "opting out" of the sexual marketplace (and these things should never be considered equal).

To me, that's not success. That's failure. Opting out or attempting to redefine your inability to be successful as "it was my choice!" is disingenuous.

I agree. Not doing an approach because you are sure of the outcome is never as RP as getting some and saying "I knew it would work". All the drift from what was the original RP ideal to the slowly dulling to what we see now (I don't want/ need to attract women to be RP) is wrong. The perfect way to see if you are an "ideal" male, alpha, RP, etc, is to make a woman >want< you. Period.

This is long winded and I probably lost my point so if you have questions, instead of shitting on it first, please ask so I can clarify my ideas.

Title	Doing it for yourself, the pervasive hamster
Author	redpillschool
Upvotes	265
Comments	92
Date	April 21, 2014 3:05 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/23lega/doing_it_for_yourself_the_pervasive_hamster/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/doing-it-for-yourself-the-pervasive-hamster.14385 https://theredarchive.com/post/14385

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