I'm faced with a life changing decision that affects me and my kids and need help

Gogo4u · 2013-10-02T12:05:32+00:00

My advice would be to slooooww down. You're still in the honeymoon phase of a new relationship and it would appear you're nearing the end of it. There's no way you've gotten a feel for how this woman REALLY is. Have you seen how she faces adversity? How she handles money? Jealousy? (And I mean first hand. Don't trust stories of the past that get painted with a rainbow brush).

Maybe she's the one. Maybe this is a small bump in the road and everything will be wonderful. But you're jumping from one LTR and trying to forge another almost immediately. The security is nice and all but you've got to be more cautious with so much at stake (kids). Speaking of the kids, they might be more receptive to a new 'mum' at this age but do you really think another year is going to make that much of a difference?

Slow down man. You have time. and you owe it to your kids AND YOURSELF to make the best possible choice for your family.

Good luck

Futsushi · 2013-10-02T08:10:51+00:00

The only thing I can say, since I don't know this women, is look at the statistics.

More partners = faster divorce, period. Also, maybe self-esteem issues or just plain promiscuous.

She lied... marriages don't work with lies.

Rumble_in_the_Jungle · 2013-10-02T12:49:03+00:00

She started off the relationship by lying to you.
There are plenty of post wall single moms who want nothing more than a guy with kids and a nice income, she's not "the one"
Is a lying, high-count woman someone you want raising your kids?

2013-10-02T10:46:49+00:00

You think this is the only thing she lied about? You think this is the last thing she will lie about? I don't think so.

FeelingSassy · 2013-10-02T10:27:00+00:00

First of all sort your self-esteem issues out. What am I talking about? this niggle which makes you think you are not capable of raising your children by yourself, you seem to be doing a good job, dont fall into old habits look where they got you.

What do you REALLY want? A mother figure for your children? a companion for yourself? what?

She is using sex to get you into maintaining a relationship with her and has been consciously lying to you, that's some flags right there.

BTW are you actively looking for single mothers or is that just you wanting to subconsciously be the knight in shining armour? If you are looking for a mother figure, as suggested get a nanny/au pair or you should look for someone who will devote all their time to your children, stop under-valuing yourself bud!

p.s I love how she is looking for someone who is 'packing' to satisfy her, what happens when the 'marriage' sex gets boring and unsatisfying...looks like your #4 will you be the last?

Archwinger · 2013-10-02T17:08:57+00:00

Take your own kids out of the equation, and this situation is really obvious:

She is betaizing you. She's had her fun, had kids with other men, and now wants to ensure her financial security and that of her children by marrying a well-off/successful nice guy.

She's lied about her sexual past, and when a woman "admits" to a small lie, that's really just a cover for a bigger one.

The fact that she said exactly all the right things, and was willing to indulge your sexual kinks, and all the other ways you two have hit it off is just as likely evidence that this woman is trying to manipulate you into marriage, than evidence that she's actually a great match for you. Maybe she's really into you, but maybe she's just as into the future and security you can provide for her. Maybe she's really into your kids, or maybe that's part of her manipulation.

The fact is, if you were a childless man, everybody would be in 100% agreement that this woman had her fun and is using you as her beta chump, saying and doing whatever it takes to get married and into your money. I'm having a hard time concluding anything different just because she's good with your kids.

Nemester · 2013-10-02T21:19:39+00:00

You can engage in a monogamous relationship and get all the benefits thereof without getting married. So don't get married. You don't benefit from that, so don't take a risk where there is no potential reward.

She also needs to be financially responsible for her own children at all times. At no point should you be paying for her kids. A woman dating a man with children is facing a different problem than the inverse scenario. It is very unlikely she will ever be financially responsible for the previous children so a woman won't have to consider that risk factor too much when she considers you as a mate. In other words, you potentially could get another woman without children to reasonably consider you. Maybe an infertile one would be a good match. Just food for thought.

You might also consider looking for a woman with 1 kid instead of 2, this would make her more accepting of you having children, but also reduce the your financial liability.

Sarcasticus · 2013-10-02T13:50:08+00:00

but turns out she has a past of promiscuity and lied about it

Then she's lied about other stuff too. You can't build a relationship with someone you don't trust. Dump her.

RedSunBlue · 2013-10-02T09:18:55+00:00

Would it be possible to move closer to your parents and have them help out?

LoveLord1000 · 2013-10-02T12:59:16+00:00

She's not "the one".

RPstudent · 2013-10-02T15:13:18+00:00

From the comments it appears you feel a stronger sense of trepidation due to the deceit and not to her past history. I think that is correct, but that both are valid and legitimate concerns.

Lies never help. And in this case, it's a sign of her own insecurity. You described the early stage as:

Straight shooting talk, upfront about what we're looking for at this point in our lives etc.

I'll grant that one does not proffer full sexual history disclosure upon initial meeting, but at some point, she felt insecure enough about what she had done to lie about what she had done. And if any of her past history is tied to insecurity, it's a safe bet that problem will manifest itself again and again.

Do you want to put yourself through that? And more to what you seem to be suggesting as a partial motivation for your matequest, do you want to put your children through that? In reality the first question is the one that matters, but the second one tends to clarify one's thinking.

On to the lying. It calls into question everything else about her. Did she gauge your intent quickly and show you what you wanted to see so that you could say:

she ticks all the boxes with respect to what I'm looking for the kids and me.

The deception is why you cannot set aside her past, and why you shouldn't. These are serious red flags. We've heard before that as a woman's partner count increases, her ability to bond with a man decreases. She may not have hit that point, but then again, she may have. Her insecurity/shame/embarrassment suggests that she thinks the full truth would push you away, so out it comes tickle truth style.

The au pair suggestions make sense. The find someone else suggestions do too. The reward her bad behavior by pressing on makes no sense to me.

RedBigMan · 2013-10-02T17:06:01+00:00

A month or so after this, it comes out that her number is actually higher. She first says its between 7-10, then she says its 15-20. And finally she does a count and says its 12, including the 3 LTRs. She says after her first break up when she was 22 she went on a bender. Casuals, ONSes, FBs, but has trouble keeping sex and emotional attachment separate and got hurt a bunch of times. At 28, she decides she's had enough and starts looking to settle down gets married after her 2 LTR ends when she meets LTR #3.

ALWAYS assume a woman is lying about their number of partners. I always take the number they offer and multiply it by 2-3.

As for your TL;DR section...

Am I setting myself and the kids up for a raw deal?

Yes. You managed to secure their custody away from a woman who must have been batshit insane because the courts virtually always side with the mother even when she's a nutjob.

Am I being a sucker here?

Yes. Remember you do not need a new marriage. All you need is a stable LTR with a female presence who is willing to accept your kids. Even single women (not single mothers) are accepting of other people's kids far more than men are accepting of other people's kids because their biology is wired to protect kids even if they arent their own.

So many doubts?

When in doubt you should do what your gut tells you to do. I have a feeling your gut is telling you to NEXT this woman because of the lies. Remember even with 2 kids your SMV as a man is still far higher than a woman's SMV with 2 kids.

Has this got any potential for working out well for all?

Looking at the more partners = more likely to divorce. I think at 12-15 you have the highest rates of divorce. So the potential for working out is slim. You certainly wouldn't put everything you own on #7 at the roulette table in Vegas. That's the equivalent move you're making here.

Or am I just being naive and stupid?

Naive yes... Stupid Not so much. You are here asking for advice after all which means you've already considered that this is going to be a raw deal for you and your kids if you continue forward. That's far superior to what other single dads would be doing in your position.

Is the obvious need for my kids to have a mum overpowering any other reasons I have to make my choice?

Yes. Yes it is. That said, I think the problem with kids is far more the lack of a father figure in their lives than a mother figure. Society as a whole will do a far better job of mothering your children than a single woman will at this point. I mean just thinking about the time they'll be spending in school dealing with teachers (usually female) they'll get plenty of female authority figures in their lives. The big thing is having the male authority figure who does not derive his authority from some feminist authority (like a school principal) that is YOU!.

buffmoot · 2013-10-02T12:29:06+00:00

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alt30313 · 2013-10-02T08:06:43+00:00

Why can't you get an au pair. Seriously an au pair can be a live in nanny, cook, clean, help with the kids homework and do everything a wife would except have sex with you. Lets be honest about a married persons sex life, it generally sucks.

In my opinion you should live for yourself for a few years and don't jump into another marriage. Do you honestly want to deal with her kids and the potential financial pitfalls of marriage? Get a nanny now and look into an Au pair. Au pairs are cheaper and you get more bang for your buck. Google au pairs now. A lot of the sites have profiles, estimated cost and profiles that list the au pairs' skill set. You can find many au pairs that will live with single dads that have children.

WN5h · 2013-10-02T09:41:25+00:00

The rules for finding a woman don't change because you're divorced.

You are only 32. If you really must find a mom for your kids you could easily find yourself a woman a decade your junior who is younger, has no kids, fewer sexual partners, and will be the mother to your kids. Its harder but what is better for your sons and you? Any woman who's got kids has a duty to her children first.

Boss_Monkey · 2013-10-02T11:50:44+00:00

Walk. Away. You do not need her like she needs you. There are better women out there, more deserving of your attention.

buffmoot · 2013-10-02T09:51:46+00:00

So this is what my life will be like? I'm in the exact same situation. First and only love, divorcing as we speak. Don't have any advice to give. Interested in reading your history though.

Terry_Bruce_Dick · 2013-10-02T16:11:44+00:00

Just pointing out again that she's lied to you. She will lie to you again if it serves her needs.

AboveAFC · 2013-10-02T16:52:35+00:00

Please, for your own good, take the better advice on this thread and SLOW DOWN!

With a "girlfriend" her past is no big deal. You sleep with her and have fun together. No worries and you both naturally keep up your best presentation.

As I'm sure you know, making her a WIFE changes everything. She will legally have you by the balls. What does she bring to the partnership? Sex? A mother figure for your kids? A working wage?

Marriage truly needs to be looked at as a business deal these days. Make damned sure your partner is entering with enough current and potential future value as you have. If she doesn't have it, then it can't work out well for you. Marriage law today requires 50/50 partnership no matter how the actual working breakdown is in reality.

This woman is going to be the example to your children and set a good deal of their moral code. Does that work for you? Will they see her as being your "first mate" if she's a stay at home mom? If she works, will she be the "mother" you want for your kids? Are you going to have to split your resources to provide for her kids at the expense of your own? It sounds like you live outside the US, but what about college for all the kids? Is this relationship something that would help your kids long term?

You have kids. You've been trained that they "need a mother", but you really need to ask yourself what is in their best long term interest.

Dad needs sex. You don't have to WIFE a woman to get that.

If you're picking a "mother figure", you'd better make damned sure it's more to the benefit of your children and not hers. Having dated and seen quite a few single mothers out there, I know it never is to the man's benefit. They are all looking to secure resources for their kids. They aren't bad people, but she is working in self interest and you are secondary. Never forget that!

So seriously, make a list of all the things you want for your kids. Figure out what it would cost them if you WIFE this woman. Go from there. I believe the only reason you WIFE a woman is for children. For sex, do your own thing with enjoyable women who don't require huge risk on your and your children's part.

Hope it all works out for you!

spirockguy · 2013-10-02T17:41:11+00:00

This is my take on the scenario:

She lied repeatedly about her sexual history. This is concerning for a few reasons, one because of the lying itself; two, because the number of partners a woman has had does impact the ability to have a stable relationship ongoing; three, because she knew that this would have reflected badly upon her when you first started dating, so waited until you were invested, had introduced her to your children, etc. to tell you more, knowing that it would be much more difficult for you to make a decision about how to proceed with her.
You guys have been going out for less than a year. I would recommend that at the very least, have an engagement period of over 1.5 years. This gives you the chance to move past the honeymoon phase a little more, and really spend more time with each other.
She's older than you. This doesn't bode well for the stability of the relationship either, it tends to work better when the man is at least a few years older than the woman. In ten years, you could still get a woman in her early thirties, and instead, you'll be with a woman in her mid forties.
She has two young children of her own, so she is looking for a beta provider. Single mother in her thirties? You better believe she's pretty desperate to find someone and will do anything to get him to commit. Be careful you don't knock her up.
I know you want a mother for your children, but her character has already shown to be suspect. She may be good with them, but if she is not a good role model through her actions, that will be reflected in the children too. You already have one child in therapy (good on you for that by the way), now you've introduced them to a woman who you haven't been dating for even a year, they call her mom - this is just moving very fast.

Questions to consider:

Why not hire a live-in nanny while you date some more? How often is she alone with your children? What is her relationship with her ex-husband like? How often does she have her kids with her (what's the custody arrangement)? Does her ex pay child support? Why did her last marriage end - what she says, and what you think the husband would say? What is her job? Do you know why your children started calling her mom? Did she ask them to?

2013-10-03T11:06:20+00:00

Women are like cars, if you can get one without mileage then great but most do have some miles on them. But who in their right mind wants a woman/car which has been driven into the ground by more men that you can count on both hands.

I learnt the hard way. Ex had 15 men before me and that just tells you that there are underlying mental problems in a woman that is willing to give up her most valuBle commodity to every Tom, Dick and Harry. It's all about value, the fewer sexual partners a woman has had the more valuable she is.

buffmoot · 2013-10-02T16:20:55+00:00

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nwilli100 · 2013-10-02T16:53:44+00:00

She lied when you were clearly valuing "straight-shooting upfront talk" that's a big red flag, tread carefully my friend.

Keep in mind that the "honeymoon period" is a real thing. Do not rush into a relationship assuming that the honeymoon period will continue as such.

Good Luck

thegman84 · 2013-10-02T17:53:08+00:00

So about 9 months ago, I started up on the online dating scene looking for serious relationships....

You've been seeing her for less than 9 months.....why are you in such a hurry to marry her? If she really looking to settle down and not in it just for the first beta provider sugar daddy she can find, she won't be going anywhere.

I do feel a clock ticking due to my kids being young and it being easier for them to accept someone now....

1. Marriage isn't going to affect the way the kids see her. That will be entirely dictated by her interactions with them and you.

2. Being raised by a single dad is going to be far healthier for your kids than going through another divorce a couple of years down the road.

Keep seeing her and decide in a year or two if you want to get married.

HeadingRed · 2013-10-02T18:45:50+00:00

Slow down a bit. Try as best you can to figure out what kind of feminist she thinks she is. Is it "I want a shot to succeed" or "waaa, patriarchy old boys club I'm oppressed so I won't even bother to find a good job"

If she values you then the lies are kind of understandable. If she's just looking for a daddy to take care of her then it's not.

That being said DO NOT stay in the relationship with the mindset of "maybe I will get over that". Unless you know it's not a problem for you it will always be a problem for you.

2013-10-02T19:08:09+00:00

Honestly I think you can do a lot better. In good shape, 32, upper management, and you're chasing an older woman with 2 kids who lies to you?

Dating is not symmetrical. You having 2 kids is not nearly as big a deal as it is for her.

I honestly feel like you are getting played bad. Once you get married things will change pretty seriously, not to mention it will be a 6 person household if you both have full custody.

x7CR7x · 2013-10-02T16:25:46+00:00

Do a little research into BPD women.

2013-10-02T19:06:27+00:00

Slow down JESUS. You don't have to rush into a marriage or living together. Take it slow man. You're fucking stupid if you rush into living/marriage with her.

M3_Drifter · 2013-10-02T21:15:21+00:00

Why marriage? Why so quickly? I appreciate the romantic desire for it, but logically, what benefits will you reap?

The good guy in you want to help her - fuck him. Do what you need to do for you and your kids.

I think you should continue the relationship, but ditch the marriage plans for now. Maybe even take back the engagement ring. If she truly loves you, she wants to be with you whether or not you are engaged.

jakethesnake76 · 2013-10-02T23:53:30+00:00

I think she's the one

the one

Women are NEVER the ONE She might or might not be a good partner , but she is just another woman in need. If you are in need you will be introuble. i wouldn't marry into this i would rather have a prewall woman who is wanting married who you may have kid with.

2013-10-03T06:08:01+00:00

She is at a point where she absolutely needs to secure some resources. She will say and do whatever it takes to make sure she gets those resources. Dont marry her.

James_Coook · 2013-10-03T20:39:17+00:00

Dude don't fucking do it! Just raise the kids the best you can on your on and spin fucking plates! Don't become a beta provider to some whore and her kids. Fuck that shit. SHE'S trying to game YOU with all the sex and her kids. Watch that sex dry up and her weight balloon after marriage. Don't. Fucking. Do. It.

EDIT: OP have you seen this! Wake the fuck up! http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_R-WhB9g9eYk/TJDSr8V_ShI/AAAAAAAAAOg/VmMGTymAVcI/s1600/teachman

Figax · 2013-10-02T15:06:12+00:00

I would not put her down for that in your situation. Propably going to be downvoted in to oblivion for this. There are really good posts in TRP, but i believe a lot of readers have a rather one dimensional view on woman (let's face it: a lot of guys here are bitter because they did NOT manage to maintain a healthy relationship). She had her fun, okay. Is this a problem for itself? Or is this triggering something inside you because you hadn't many different sexuell partners? Saying "she had her slutty years of experimentating and devalued herself, no wife material" would be the same as a women stating "he had only one sexuell partner in his life, what a beta, i need a man who knows he has options and is experienced with woman, no husband material" - what a BS. Stay RP, confront her about the lie, tell her this is a no go. Tell her what you told us. But do not let this ruin your relationship. I doubt a nanny or a girl ten years younger will be the mother you want for your children (they are both gone at some point, starting their own families). She sounds like a nice women and a good match for you. A real man doesn't run away or seeks the easy route, he sorts his things out.

FortunateBum · 2013-10-05T05:40:58+00:00

ALL women are gigantic sluts, ALL women lie about it.

You are not going to find anyone different (in spite of what they tell you here).

That said, since as stated this is a common quality in women, you should simply disregard it and use other criteria to judge.

Rule of thumb: the first number a woman gives you, multiply it by 3 - at least. I like to multiply it by 10.

Rumble_in_the_Jungle · 2013-10-02T11:57:38+00:00

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Old-Hickory · 2013-10-02T09:49:47+00:00

Okay so I'm not from these parts. I stumbled in cause the conservative thing.

But: You have two kids. Your last wife was an awful/abusive. You got the kids away from her. You meet a new woman who's amazing. she has two kids and appears to be a great mother. you fall for her. she tells you she had 8 sexual partners total [3LTR+5ONS]. Things are going great. She hits everything you need in a partner, and you get along with her kids. You love her, she loves you. She then tells you she actually had 12 [3+9] partners?

Because of this you're considering ending things with her?

Right? That's what this post says right?

fittpassword · 2013-10-02T07:58:06+00:00

Wouldn't call 12 ONS at 32 much, as most women are above that number at 22. But if you feel wronged about it, it's your call. And I don't think you should take a partner just because your kids needs it, you seem to handle it well.

TooTurnt · 2013-10-02T12:34:56+00:00

Sounds like a good thing. People get hung up on semantics here. If she's perfect in every other way than go for it.

Wolfwoodd · 2013-10-02T15:13:46+00:00

Slut-shaming in society CONDITIONS women to lie to men about their sexual history. It's why I dislike TRP's focus on numbers, rather than all "red-flag" behavior.

Real question: How does she treat you? Does she exhibit attention seeking behavior? Does she go out of her way to do nice things for you? Also, I'm sending you something to read.

EDIT: Downvote all you want. I give no fucks.

RedBigMan · 2013-10-02T13:40:09+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	I'm faced with a life changing decision that affects me and my kids and need help
Author	buffmoot
Upvotes	24
Comments	90
Date	October 2, 2013 7:24 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1nkjb1/im_faced_with_a_life_changing_decision_that/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/im-faced-with-a-life-changing-decision-that.7000 https://theredarchive.com/post/7000

Comments

1. Marriage isn't going to affect the way the kids see her. That will be entirely dictated by her interactions with them and you.

2. Being raised by a single dad is going to be far healthier for your kids than going through another divorce a couple of years down the road.