Salary Renegotiation and TRP.

MoltenPhoenix · 2015-01-22T15:48:14+00:00

Make it clear that you would prefer to continue working in your current company, rather than going to the other one, and you're only considering the offer because it is very attractive.

If your current boss senses that you're only in it for the money, you may be in a place where you stagnate in your current position, and in danger of being dismissed in the future. Bosses want committed people who love what they do and are willing to give their blood for the company (bullshit, I know).

elrayem · 2015-01-22T17:54:18+00:00

That Flinch link was awesome.

A salary double is a game changer for the rest of your life. Salary increases are always incremental -- a simple double digit raise is huge -- Do Not Even think about staying. Its the compounding interest thing. Just think -- you're next 3% raise will be twice what it currently is. If there is to be negotiations, make your current employer start it. Here's how.

Accept the offer and resign. Don't just turn in a letter. Get to your boss early in the morning.

As others have said, when you resign, if you want to entertain a counter, reiterate, and make this believable! (a) how much you love working there (b) how much you love your boss, and secondarily, how much you love your team (c) how much you appreciate what they taught you, and what you learned, and the experience you've gained. (d) a desire to stay in touch in the event "paths cross again".

Hand over the letter and walk away.

If they want to keep you, they will call you back in within 24 hours. At this point -- he thinks 20% will keep you. Begin by saying the same thing as before, only shorter -- end with: the new offer is too sweet to walk away from. Talk about how practical minded you are, and wise to the ways of the world -- how hard your boss's position would be to seek that "kind" of an increase -- and gently say there's no point in discussing it further, as its not even reasonable for them to consider. Companies just "dont do that". IE -- if he's a dude leave him with the impression you don't believe he has the "juice" to make you happy. If your boss is a woman, emote with her on how cheap the boys upstairs are and how hard it must be for her to maintain a good team what with the revolving door and all. Walk away again, because the boss should now have inferred 20% wont do it, and has to go back to his boss and sort some shit out. Try to exit this second convo without providing a number, but you may need to indicate its "more than double".

Third convo, wait for them to name a number. Then, use the flinch, and try to extract more -- managers almost always have two numbers in their head, the first one, and the "this is as high as I can go without breaking the salary structure for the entire team" number.

WARNING: YOU CAN ONLY EVERY ONCE do this to a current employer -- its a one time move -- extract as much as you can -- maybe if you get a new boss, you could try it again -- but do it once, you boss respects you -- do it twice, he resents you.

Most people get their big raises by switching employers, and odds are, that's what you will need to do.

TVTestPattern · 2015-01-22T18:18:24+00:00

I'm 50.

My salary history has been:

$16,400 $40,000 $72,000 $101,000 $132,000 $160,000

Not one of those came from the same company. I have received little bumps along the way, but nothing substantial.

They might play ball with you, but my experience says... nope.

Double your salary? Why are you still there dude?

relationshipdownvote · 2015-01-22T15:49:17+00:00

I think you might have some oneitis for your current job. From my experience small companies just can't offer the pay of larger ones. I would be prepared and willing to jump ship. Do what is best for you.

Red-Zen · 2015-01-23T18:06:57+00:00

Never mention that you have another offer for them to match. You will from then onwards always be the disloyal guy who is just in it for the money. When your next negotiation comes up, it will be "we just gave you a big raise." If there is ever any downsizing, it will be you because you're payed more than you're worth, and you're not loyal to the company.

There is no way that they will double your salary. Your credentials dont matter. They hired you at that rate because that's what the position is worth to them. 2x salary bumps are never in the cards.

The only way this could work is if they have another (more valuable) position in the firm to move you to. What are the odds of that happening at the same time? They likely wont want to do that either because it means that they will still have to fill your position with someone else. And you will still be the disloyal guy.

Just write your resignation saying you are leaving to pursue other challenges and a more lucrative opportunity, and thank them your your time at the company.

[deleted] · 2015-01-22T20:10:20+00:00

[permanently deleted]

leftajar · 2015-01-22T16:36:48+00:00

Make them offer first, and use the flinch.

They might say, "What would it take to keep you here?"

You counter with, "Well, what do you think would be appropriate?"

They counter with, "Seriously, what's it going to take?"

You say, "Well, the offer would have to take into account my contributions, as well as be more attractive than the other company. What are you prepared to offer?"

The more this goes back and forth, the more you'll feel like an asshole. But whatever.

When they finally make an offer, use the "flinch." This guy explains it better than I can.

deadlycatch · 2015-01-22T18:27:13+00:00

Bosses rarely take kindly to these types of negotiations.

I would get the offer in writing from the 2nd company and move onward and upward.

Good luck.

curiousthis · 2015-01-22T19:47:17+00:00

I am going to take their offer to my boss and renegotiate my salary,

Do not do this. All this will do is spur your boss to accept your offer and then look around to replace you. You're better off resigning: i.e. deciding the circumstances of your job on your terms, not theirs.

Don't just take my word for it.

Cyralea · 2015-01-22T16:35:51+00:00

Abundance mentality is king. Walk in with the mentality that they need you more than you need them. It helps if you're leaving one company for another. Do everything you can to convey that your current place of employment is great; you don't want to give them any reason to think that you're leaving for any reason other than a lucrative opportunity with the new company.

Ask questions that force them to validate to you. "What are some of the things that are unique about this company's culture? What things do you enjoy here? How long do people usually stay, and why do you think that is?"

Game the shit out of HR. They're almost always women. They usually know fuck all about the role. They want to see if your personality meshes and if you have any red flags. Put on the charm, keep it PG, and treat it almost like a first date. Trust me on this one, HR staff fucking love me.

Don't settle. Negotiate hard or don't bother. Unless it's a truly awesome opportunity don't sell yourself short. You'd be surprised what a little hard-balling gets you.

Ignorancewasbliss83 · 2015-01-22T20:07:27+00:00

My two cents because it's what has worked for me: leave your company on a positive note, do a great turnover with whoever is taking your role in the interim and take the new job. Your boss will make an offer to keep you but it won't be nearly enough. Stay at the next job for a year and if you really don't like it you can probably return to your old job and not only get your current pay but also another bump. Most managers have their hands tied when it comes to raises but can pull all kinds of strings when hiring someone.

CanFirst · 2015-01-22T16:10:35+00:00

Salary negotiations should be like marriage proposals, you should be very certain that it is going to be successful before you ask formally.

Use your certification as a way to broach the subject unofficially, mention that you have some more in mind and what ones would be most useful. Use that to segue into a discussion about compensation, and watch for the reaction.

Never threaten to leave, just discuss your compensation or leave. The worst case scenario is that you threaten, they bump you by some percentage they can (without approval of people above) and then immediately make plans to replace you.

Two, no one is ever going to double your salary unless you were in some sort of trial/try/intern position. Make it easy on them, what and when can they approve without justifying to someone above them. you better be a superstar that is know as that superstar to the level that can or will hear about the raise level.

To explain further, if it is normal to raise within 5% for your manager, then all you have to do is have success within that sphere. If your managers manager has to approve or even hear about a raise to 10% you better make sure he knows all the details before. So and and so forth.

mvg210 · 2015-01-22T19:19:24+00:00

No employer can justify doubling your salary to 2x when they hire you at 1x.

Tell other companies your currently making 1.5x but you won't move to a new position unless they can offer 2x.

The only time I got a raise was when I quit and found a new job. I was delivering pizza for 8/he two years ago now I make 40/hour from coding

User-31f64a4e · 2015-01-22T19:28:56+00:00

2x is pretty tough.

In a large outfit, that probably requires a promotion, and may be out of synch with annual budgets.

More importantly though, you have established yourself as someone who is demanding and disloyal. Regardless of the actual truth, that is how you will be seen.

You also have to ask yourself, why do you want to stay if they were dramatically underpaying you? Is that the kind of outfit you want to be with? Sure, new certificate for the credentialists, and good experience. But if they don't already acknowledge that ...

secret_barber · 2015-01-23T03:50:00+00:00

I am going to take their offer to my boss and renegotiate my salary

Don't waste your time. They will not match it.

tombreck2 · 2015-01-22T16:24:36+00:00

Whoever says a number first always loses:

You: (I want 40k so I will say a higher number) I would like 50k.

Them: (We were going to offer him 60k but that works) How about 45k?

You: (I win) Ok.

Do whatever you can to avoid saying a number. They have no legal obligation to know how much you made at your last job.

beginner_ · 2015-01-22T16:34:25+00:00

Double of what you make now is pretty much a no-brainer IMHO. If it were 10% or 20% more you could decide if you prefer working at a smaller company or large one. The first usually is more flexible and you have a much greater influence. However you will in general have poorer benefits and work more at a lower salary.

EDIT:

As addition in a large company you will hardly ever be able to renegotiate salary. Each department/division will get told top down how much raises they can distribute among there employees and often also what the maximum raise is without special consent from top and so forth.

yummyluckycharms · 2015-01-22T20:40:34+00:00

People get pay significant raises from leaving the company - very rarely do people get pay raises from staying in it. I think forbes charted out the difference actually.

It makes sense actually. If you have to point out to your boss that you're valuable, despite their greater proximity to you already, chances are you aren't that valuable to them.

Also, trying to regnotiate your salary is very risky - it basically tells your boss that you're a flight risk. So they'll keep you on for a bit, then will replace you with someone cheaper on their schedule not yours. It will also mean that you risk getting a negative performance review or be subjected to other tactics to get you to leave. Seen it happen way too many times - and the guy who thought it was right to be loyal was screwed badly.

TDLR - just leave, take the higher pay, and dont look back

Lt_Muffintoes · 2015-01-22T22:04:48+00:00

It's kind of like an LTR isn't it? If your girl is about to swing branches, and you make her a counteroffer of some kind, you'll never have the same relationship.

Corollary, if you're going to upgrade a girl, and she tries to reel you in with more/kinkier sex or whatever emotional stuff she was giving you, you don't honestly expect the relationship to be better and improve in the future.

lloopy · 2015-01-22T22:38:39+00:00

A while back I went from Company A to Company B then back to Company A a year later. My net raise was 50%.

The advice I've been given is to increase your value, then move to some place that will pay you for it. The company that was paying you all along will still see you as the person you were, and so the appropriate raise will not be forthcoming.

Halfjor · 2015-01-22T22:39:06+00:00

Take the other job. Double your salary is insane. If you were getting a 30-40% increase, you could work your current job up if you love working there. 100% increase though? As good as it is to enjoy where you work, double your salary is massive. Imagine putting the entirety of what you're made in 2014 into investments, and still having the same amount to live off of.

I think the money is too good to pass up.

larrythetomato · 2015-01-23T03:57:53+00:00

Write a professionally appropriate letter (thanking them for the opportunity they gave you) and do not say anything negative. If you know that your current employer can't match the salary, don't say anything or ask for a better spot, you are simply burning a bridge.

My friends uncle who is a rich fucker, owns a massive 3 story house in Singapore (you know the country where over 80% live in shitty apartments) and has fucking $20k carp. He had a similar situation earlier in his life where he had to come back to a job he absolutely hated. Lucky he he left on 'good terms'.

puppetmstr · 2015-01-23T04:53:09+00:00

Is it a good strategy to ask for a raise before you complete an important project? Like 'if i can pull this off I want a promotion*raise'?

TekkomanKingz · 2015-01-23T12:30:57+00:00

Professional life is easy and a piece of cake compared to dealing with Women.

For employers it's a matter of your skill set (how common is someone of your capability) and contribution to the company/tenure.

For a Woman, it's a subjective observation that changes from minute-to-minute with no proper or documented evaluation criteria.

doctormountain · 2015-01-26T18:56:00+00:00

Have not been successful to negotiate it at the level I had planned, but I am not giving up ;)

TrainingTheBrain · 2015-01-22T15:41:51+00:00

I've never been in this scenario and as far as applying RP philosophies all I would say is focus on the fact that you already have an offer and are ready to walk.

Technically you don't need your current job, this will aid in your confidence. Just like buying a car, you're ready to walk away.

With that in mind go in their, maintain eye contact and posture, and most importantly know exactly what is is you're after.

What will you do if they offer you a bonus instead of increased salary?
What will you do if they give you a small raise, lower than what you ask for.
What will you do if there is a group panel?

Prepare for everything and be a confident man that owns the room and owns himself. You know what you want and what you're worth, now you just need to let others know how much their standard will drop if they lose you.

svogliate · 2015-01-23T20:14:50+00:00

I found that salary negotiations went a lot better once I founded my own company and became President and CEO.

I mean, a lot better. Night and day.

myrpaccount · 2015-01-23T21:51:19+00:00

Pro-tip for negotiating salary. Use vacation as a negotiating tool after you have negotiated salary. If you think you have settled the money aspect, and you are earlier in your career try for three weeks salary right out of the gate. If you are 40+ ask for 4 weeks.

It's also a fine line between taking the higher offer whenever one is presented and choosing the right job. If you change jobs too often it looks real bad to potential employers. Use abundance mentality and realize you are interviewing them to see if you think they are worthy of your talent, not the other way around.

Title	Salary Renegotiation and TRP.
Author	woximm
Upvotes	43
Comments	62
Date	January 22, 2015 3:34 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2tangv/salary_renegotiation_and_trp/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/salary-renegotiation-and-trp.28226 https://theredarchive.com/post/28226

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