How has feminist shaming/normalized misandry harmed you?

stunspot · 2021-07-25T16:24:18+00:00

When I was homeless, there very virtually no resources for me to draw upon. I saw plenty of women gain shelter, transport, counseling, clothing, hygiene products, and social support. It really drove home that society places absolutely zero value on me and plenty on women.

dylanbob5 · 2021-07-25T16:43:42+00:00

I've been chastised, verbally abused, insulted, slapped across the face, dragged back to a woman's apartment while I was clearly too intoxicated to consent to sex, excluded, ostracized, ganged up on, and disrespected in ways that have never been done to me by men. But there's no recourse or sympathy for those experiences. People don't actually care even after the sociocultural upheaval we've seen in recent years. The most I'll get is lip service of support. But even that seems artificial and obligatory rather than authentic. Complaining about any of these things done to you, as a man, does lose the respect of both sexes and the attraction of women. They see you as less than, weak, and unable to handle your shit.

A general principle I've held through most of my life for everyone everywhere is despising double standards. If we are trying to reach a more egalitarian society then everyone should rise to the occasion and abide by the same rules.

I've had women, in person and certainly in debates here on reddit, outright say that that they are not beholden the social contract and niceties if they feel uncomfortable, at odds with a man, face conflict, or are subjected to slights and wrongs. They're allowed to then play by different rules and standards (because "oppression" and the physical disadvantages they have). It typically results in cowardly, shitty, self-righteous, vicious, conniving behavior.

In almost 30 years on this planet with countless interactions across the board, men apologize quicker, will hash things out more rationally and resolve a conflict better, won't duck and run at the first sign of discomfort, won't escalate situations as quickly, don't make mountains out of molehills, and value respect, integrity, and established mutual loyalty far more than women.

RepressingFire · 2021-07-25T15:49:58+00:00

I grew up in a fundamentalist Christian household which was extremely damaging to my sexuality and social development. When I first started to make my way out of the faith, I thought I'd be heading into a refreshing new world where I wouldn't be shamed anymore for aspects of who I am which are beyond my control, that I wouldn't be blamed for actions of my (or other people's) long-dead ancestors, and that I wouldn't have to contend with such a high degree of logical fallacy and dogmatism anymore. Boy, was I wrong. I came out of religion in 2013, which is right when feminism reared its ugly head within the atheist community and threw it into infighting it has yet to recover from. So now rather than being in a culture where my more effeminate side is looked down upon, I'm treated as eternally guilty of an original sin, and I'm required to suppress my sexuality to keep God happy, I exist in a culture where my masculine side is looked down upon, I'm treated as eternally guilty of an original sin, and I'm required to suppress my sexuality to keep women happy.

The biggest lie that multiple people of bitterly conflicting ideologies have ever told me is that suppressing my sexuality and being a good little boy who never steps a toe out of line will lead to some kind of relationship reward down the line. At least Christians can consistently believe the falsehood that God would deterministically plant a woman for me in my life, but feminists have no such excuse for their lack of self-awareness about what and who women are attracted to.

Enzi42 · 2021-07-25T20:46:57+00:00

I'm not sure if my answer will count as a valid answer to this question but it's my experience. I also thought long and hard about sharing this or not, but here goes.

Watching increasingly blatant displays of misandry being met with silence or worse applause and approval from society and seeing many men internalize this mindset so that they direct hatred against themselves and other men has made me far less compassionate and empathetic towards women's issues, especially when it comes to the repeated entreaties to become a "male ally" A.K.A. "He For She" type of nonsense.

It's not that I feel hatred or animosity towards women. I just feel that as long as misandrist and hateful things about men are met with no real backlash or are applauded as "brave" or "revolutionary", then they have no right to ask for any male aid with their various concerns and problems. They don't deserve allies in the form of men willing to go to bat for them.

I still care deeply for the women in my life and will stand up for them without question unless there's some interpersonal conflict between us that has little to nothing to do with gender politics. But as a class...no.

It’s time men dedicated 100 percent of our energy to solving our own problems rather than wasting our valuable time and effort on a group that curses and degrades us with near-impunity.

On the other hand entirely I feel an extremely deep drive to help solve men's issues and have much more empathy and general emotion towards men's problems and feel deeply when I hear of some kind of terrible thing befalling a man.

I wish more men were pushed to this point, enough that it started affecting things in real life. Maybe then there would be some willingness to sit down and talk things over. I don't know. I just tried to answer the question as best I can.

I struggled for years with my mental health, deep anxiety and self-loathing long before I became aware of gender politics and definitely before the boom of "woke" culture. I feel a deep seething hatred of anyone who tries to purposely introduce undeserved guilt, self-doubt and things like that in other people, especially for things intrinsic to what they are. I feel like it would take a lifetime for me to explain it all, but that is probably the foundation of my feelings towards feminists and their ideology.

TLDR: Unabashed misandry being praised or ignored in society made me indifferent and cold towards women's issues while embracing male solidarity and dedication to solving our gender's problems, no matter how it has to be done.

LettuceBeGrateful · 2021-07-25T09:00:43+00:00

I used to have an immense amount of internalized shame around my sexuality and being a cis man. I was basically unable to maintain relationships of any kind. I couldn't have true friendships with men because men were toxic, I couldn't have romantic relationships with women because women were sexless porcelain dolls, and I thought that what would appeal to women most was me suppressing my sexuality. (Gee, I wonder where nice guys come from...) Of course, because of that I couldn't have platonic friendships with women, let alone date.

Even when I considered myself right-wing, I was never able to let go of the label "feminist." There's something insidious about how deeply it is embedded in our psyches as being essential to basic human decency. Discovering anti-feminist critiques (and getting myself to therapy, because there was other stuff that needed sorting as well) probably saved my life. It certainly helped me transform from a loveless, depressed doormat to a healthy, self-respecting man who was capable of holding down a real sexual relationship.

That's what gets me about people equating anti-feminism with misogyny. By abandoning feminism, I not only improved my relationship with myself, but with all the women in my life, friends or otherwise. I'm honestly ashamed of the way I treated women back when I identified as a feminist, and I pushed some good female friends away through needy, immature behavior.

Male shaming still gets to me sometimes, but at least now I have that core conviction that I'm just as worth standing up for as every other human being. I no longer believe it's necessary to be a self-flagellating, benevolently-sexist goober (cough cough menslib) to improve the world. I'm also able to embrace the authentic parts of me that are associated with traditional masculinity, such as enjoying cars and American football, instead of burying them out of fear that I'm activating a toxic misogynist part of myself.

I'm just overall 100x happier now. I respect myself, I respect others, and above all I know who I am. At 20 I was a suicidal shell of a person. At 30 I was in a long-term relationship with a cutie-pie (didn't work out, but that doesn't mean I wish it had never happened) and finally learning who I was, as a man and just more fundamentally as a human being. I couldn't have done any of that if I'd stuck with feminism.

Novibesmatter · 2021-07-25T21:32:41+00:00

Two words: false accusation. They took a lot from me but at least it opened my eyes

PricklyGoober · 2021-07-25T07:22:14+00:00

I think feminism has made both sexes fear/distrust each other more.

For me, I find myself being less trusting of women in general, which is unfortunate, because I know most women are no doubt not crazy feminazis. I guess I’m fortunate I’m not one to get lonely easily, else I might qualify for the “incel” trope; in other words, I’m guessing this increased mistrust of the opposite sex may contribute to “inceldom” in some guys.

Steyrox · 2021-07-25T12:45:54+00:00

I think in three areas: social status, financially and sexually.

Growing up with the man bashing and put downs I learned that in this journey that we are on together the role of women is to be ambitious and take up more space while for men it is to shut up and take up less space. Mens sexuality is harmful and dangerous and needs to be contained. We all need to work together to achieve equality. A good man that is working against the patriarchy is thus a man that does not pursue money, social status and sex. The only purpose of a man is to be safe to women.

The women around me loved that I was so soft and harmless and often complimented me for this. I also learned to switch of my emotions to give room for women. The women (mom, sisters, friends teachers) always gave me compliments for how calm I am.

There was also this narrative that we live in a new era now where men don't need to be providers and where men should be emotional and caring. Also social status was a thing of the past and women these days don't care about such shallow things.

Now..

They had their university boyfriends and educations while I was a social cripple. Everything was basked in shame and I was super awkward especially around women. These feminists around me later on went on to marry doctors, managers and other high income individuals. Turns out social status and high income mattered after all! They are no longer pursing their careers but are instead stay at home moms more or less. I have asked them why they married these guys and not the financially challenged emotional guys they said women love these days and their reaction was pretty much "eww". Then when I asked them why they wanted me to be such a man, they basically said that I was not their husband so I dont need to be that kind of a man. This is not one woman also... its all of the ones I have in my friends/family circle.

It feels like a big lie the whole thing. All my values, the indoctrination, the shame and sacrifices I feel I made. I know now it was stupid to make them but its too late. It feels like this equality movement was just a greedy power grab by women and had nothing to do with equality or justice.

There was never a "we" or "us". Only greed and selfishness and utopian narratives that had nothing to do with reality.

I think I managed to recover financially but sexually I'm completely broken. I bought a sex doll which I enjoy which is sort of a way to reclaim my sexuality. But I know that I will never have children because of this which hurts.

I also think this incel boom we are seeing is a result of similar experiences to mine. Some sort of puritan "good man" concept (religious or feminist) that backfires badly.

BloomingBrains · 2021-07-26T06:10:53+00:00

Here's a random story from college. I was interested in this girl I had been talking to before class. She was cheerful, enthusiastic, sociable, everything like that while I was talking to her. I had gotten to class early that day, so we had a long time to talk, and I thought we really hit it off.

After class, I noticed that both of us were leaving at the same time, in the same direction. So I made a joke about it and politely asked if she would mind if I walked with her. She said yes but I could tell something was wrong. It was in the body language and voice. Really stiff. Like she only said it because she was afraid to say no to me. But, ok, maybe she's just shy? I had learned by that time that if you immediately give up just because girls seem shy, then basically nothing will ever happen. And who knows? Something good could come from this, right? Maybe I was just misreading the situation. So I keep talking to her, explain I thought we hit it off and sensed some chemistry there, so would she like to go out sometime? She told me to take her phone and put my number in it (getting even more tense and cold, I knew something was wrong) but I didn't want to freak her out even more so I just went along with it.

Later, I thought about the situation and realized I had been walking right past a football field where a punch of guys were practicing. If she had screamed for help, or even if some white knight decided to come unnecessarily to her defense, I could have been seriously hurt. I'm not a wimp or anything but I probably couldn't fight or even escape from multiple jocks at a time. I was lucky though. I've heard stories about guys being wrongly accused of inappropriate behavior. I wonder how many would have been less lucky than me and got beat up.

But it's not all about me either, this poor woman was terrified just cause some guy was talking to her in public. If she didn't want me around she could have declined my offer to walk with her and I would have left her alone. The narrative that all men are aggressive creeps that want to hurt women and women are helpless victims is hurting both sexes. It turns innocent youthful interactions like this, things you should be cherishing and smiling about when you remember them later in life, into a story about a woman who had a harrowing experience of almost being raped and a guy who had a harrowing experience of being treated like a freak over nothing. Both of those interactions would understanbly build even more resentment and mistrust among the sexes.

The funny thing is, this is just one of many stories I could tell that prove this point.

12345Nacho6789 · 2021-08-06T05:21:43+00:00

If you really want to see what feminism really is, just look at most of the prominent female feminists of the mid to late 20th century';1950-1980s approx. Most of these women called for the culling of the male population; they were truly disturbed people. We celebrate Margret Sanger who was actually a complete monster. This information is all available online. That's feminism for you. Feminism is basically an "angry woman" movement.

jukutt · 2021-07-25T08:15:57+00:00

Not really, but I don't live in America or India etc.

politicsthrowaway230 · 2021-07-25T11:03:11+00:00

This is maybe not a direct answer to your question.

I get the impression those harmed most by (at least interpersonal) misandry are trans men, since it is them to whom being a man is most important. I think a lot of other men just suck it up. I would be interested what a trans men would have to say on this.

We are finding increasingly many men being ashamed of their gender, feeling the need to apologise for their existence and gender, being assumed dangerous until proven otherwise. Misandristic sentiments among young people are not as rare as they should be. (it is not hard at all to find someone who has them) Men will feel increasingly ostracised for their gender, they may become increasingly resentful of women and society. This fuels obvious societal issues. Misandry is toxic and needs to be addressed when it arises.

I would again make the distinction here that with "anti-feminist" we meant "anti-radfem". Egalitarians are MRAs and feminists by default, though many will not specifically identify as the latter and even fewer as the former. Otherwise we enable the response "ah, so you don't like women's rights", which is obviously not what is meant.

BJTMac · 2021-07-29T11:15:59+00:00

Hi, i remember a community that was close for being misandry, women talk about killing men and abort males and thinking of killing their sons, i end up there for a YouTuber that strongly disagree with all this crazy assholes. I just want to remember the name of the movement cause it might happen again.

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