Don't confuse Feminism with Sexism

StarZax · 2024-06-17T20:43:21+00:00

The moment I'll see feminists calling out those who protest against men's shelters, or diminishing men's issues, I'll think about it.

I have no issue conflating people who are silent against misandry and sexism, or any form of discrimination, with those who are open about it.

If you just recently joined this sub, maybe you'll have to take the time to understand why are people thinking that way.

phoenician_anarchist · 2024-06-17T20:46:02+00:00

Feminists are people that fight for the rights of women [...]

Such as?

Can you answer that without resorting to "in the past", "in the middle east", things that aren't actually rights and never could be, or things that are not exclusive to women?

[...] (as there are still many unequal things in our society regarding gender equality) [...]

There sure are, but probably not in the way that you imagine...

[...] female sexists are people that literally hate men.

Given that Feminism is build on a foundation of anti-male hatred (yes, even old school Feminism), the two groups which you are describing are not mutually exclusive.

CrowMagpie · 2024-06-17T21:05:15+00:00

Okay.

Now go tell all the feminists to stop making the same mz-take.

HunterRenegade09 · 2024-06-17T21:08:06+00:00

Which rights are they fighting for?

I will consider the difference when feminists stop quashing any men's rights movement, or stop fighting against gender neutral rape laws. I will start considering this, the day they start holding horrible women, accountable for their horrific actions.

Bland-fantasie · 2024-06-17T21:10:15+00:00

OP, you may be interested in reading about the type of logical fallacy you used to argue your position.

WolfInTheMiddle · 2024-06-17T23:30:42+00:00

Misandry is built into feminism. If you don’t see it or don’t want to I don’t know what to tell you.

63daddy · 2024-06-17T23:14:24+00:00

The “rights” feminists have fought for and won, really aren’t rights, but rather are privileges that advantage women and disadvantage men. To accomplish that they generate a lot of anti-male propaganda. These absolutely constitute sexism.

Feminism and sexism aren’t one and the same, but feminism is a sexist movement.

Punder_man · 2024-06-17T23:26:36+00:00

Feminists have constantly made the claim to us that Feminism is "A movement for equality between the sexes" or "Feminism is for men too!"

But as we often see, the actions of feminists run counter to those stated definitions / goals.

Also, please explain to us how do we readily identify which women are "Feminists" and which are "Female Sexists"?
Because from our perspective / experience many women who claim to be "Feminists" are down right misandrists..

If you want us to have a more positive view / engagement with Feminism, then how about you and all the other "Real" feminists get together and start pulling up the misandrists who have hijacked the movement?
Once I see "real" feminists calling out women for their misandry / calling for women to be held accountable for their words / actions THEN i'll start to believe that feminism and feminists care about equality..

But until then I am and remain convinced that Feminism is a hate movement against men.

Feel free to change my mind through actions, not words.

NAWALT_VADER · 2024-06-17T22:04:25+00:00

Feminism, as we see in practice all over the world, is Sexism. We are not confused about that. The confusion seems to be your own.

Qantourisc · 2024-06-17T22:09:55+00:00

Feminists are people that fight for the rights of women

I hope you didn't mean this super literal, because if so ...

If you don't fight for equality/rights regardless of all genders/people, that's sexist.

duhhhh · 2024-06-17T22:24:18+00:00

If the influential feminist researchers, professors, lobbyists, public policy makers, journalists, authors, politicians, and protesters (and the "real feminists" using their work rather than calling out their sexism, bias, bigotry, data manipulation, outright lies, etc) were to follow the dictionary definition of feminism rather than the man hating spirit of feminism, I wouldn't be at odds with them. I would be a feminist.

PelicanFrostyNips · 2024-06-17T22:33:00+00:00

It is hard to differentiate between those because the sexists all claim to be feminists.

Before Theresia Crone’s reddit account was deleted, she stated over on r/seriousgynarchy:

Unfortunately, it is not possible to publicly declare a female supremacy stance without facing societal sanctions

And also stated:

it is known that Lena Schilling advocates for gynarchy. While she does not publicly state this during the election campaign (referring to patriarchy as her main adversary, but still publicly identifying as a feminist)

These highly toxic sexists are hiding their true beliefs because they know “feminist” is much more socially acceptable than “female supremacist”

There are great feminists out there who truly see men as people too, like Erin Pizzey or Karen DeCrow, but for the majority it is unclear what they truly believe in.

And because of that, feminism is like a bowl of chocolates. Many are perfectly safe, some are lethally poisonous, and you just can’t tell the difference between them which renders the whole bowl unsafe for consumption. It’s one of the criticisms that Angie Moon, who considers herself an egalitarian, has with feminism; they refuse to call out the harmful bad-faith actors in their movement. Women who do call it out get ostracized.

Cathy Young tried to speak out against anti-male sexism; feminists used megaphones to drown her out and pulled a fire alarm to vacate her audience. Erin Pizzey had death threats made against her for wanting male victims of DV to have a shelter too.

It’s just like ACAB: if you have one bad cop and 9 silent cops, you have 10 bad cops.

WeeklyGreen8522 · 2024-06-18T01:19:14+00:00

Egalitarian is the term you are looking for. Feminists are sexist because they suppose men have only privileges.

Mycroft033 · 2024-06-18T02:26:49+00:00

Who’s gonna paste in the Karen straughan quote? (I forgot how to spell her last name)

pilotIet · 2024-06-17T20:56:02+00:00

Feminism is a supremacist moverment.

"Rights for me, woman, at your expense".

Cold_Mongoose161 · 2024-06-18T03:57:43+00:00

Textbook example of No true scotsman fallacy

TheWritingParadox · 2024-06-18T05:03:59+00:00

From its very inception, feminism has been a terrorist ideology. The Suffragettes, i.e. the First Wave feminists, literally bombed people. It is and always has been sexist, which is why it attracts sexists.

Hell, I remember a few years ago, a few social scientists decided to play a bit of a joke. They took "Mein Kampf", switched out every use of the word "Jew" with "men", then submitted to as a research paper to a magazine (I believe it was "Ms." magazine). The magazine loved it so much that they gave the paper an award. The jokesters then revealed what they'd done and revealed that feminists had quite rightly earned the title "feminazis" and forcing the magazine tp backpedal so hard that they high-fived the Reverse Flash.

So no, there is not a separation between feminists and female sexists, feminism IS sexism.

Wylanderuk · 2024-06-18T00:37:06+00:00

Blah blah blah, blah NAFALT bullshit.

WannabeLeagueBowler · 2024-06-18T03:07:05+00:00

I don't blame women for looking out for themselves.

I blame you for selling out men.

Huitzil37 · 2024-06-18T04:22:26+00:00

One: You say the vile sexists aren't "real feminists." Why should we believe you? The sexists hold all of the power of the feminist movement and feminist organizations, and the "real feminists" hold none of the power. "Real" feminists are either completely unwilling or completely incapable of stopping horrible sexists from using the power of the political movement named "feminism" to make the world a worse place. Why should we continue to regard "feminism" as a pure and wonderful thing in abstract when it never is in practice? When you say "those aren't real feminists," you're just trying to prevent us from being able to talk about them, because

Two: Feminism is inherently sexist down to its bones and you will never ever be able to reject sexism from a feminist viewpoint. There is no specific form of feminism that can be named ahead of time and say "this is the form of feminism you shouldn't give power to," because they all call themselves "feminists." They only become bad after the fact after they go mask-off. You will never be able to kick out the man-haters, you will never be able to notice the man-haters, because your ideology hates men and embraces sexism at its very core and the only way you can recognize when people have gone wrong is when they embarrass feminism. You, like every single other feminist who has ever made this declaration, believe deeply hateful things about men and wholly embrace sexism, and you just don't think those things are hateful or sexist. Because that's how bias works. You believe awful things and think they're normal, they're so obvious to you you can't even examine them as beliefs.

Feminism is not "reverse sexism," feminism is sexism. It is the same thing as sexism. It has absolute continuity with sexism. Sexism is the belief that women are the precious gender and men are the disposable gender; feminism is the belief women are the precious gender and men are the disposable gender. You believe the same things as sexism and have the same priorities as sexism. You cannot identify problems made by sexism because you cannot see what sexism is.

dependency_injector · 2024-06-18T05:42:41+00:00

Let me quote Karen Straughan:

So what you're saying is that you, a commenter using a username on an internet forum are the true feminist, and the feminists actually responsible for changing the laws, writing the academic theory, teaching the courses, influencing the public policies, and the massive, well-funded feminist organizations with thousands and thousands of members all of whom call themselves feminists... they are not "real feminists".

That's not just "no true Scotsman". That's delusional self deception.

Listen, if you want to call yourself a feminist, I don't care. I've been investigating feminism for more than 9 years now, and people like you used to piss me off, because to my mind all you were doing was providing cover and ballast for the powerful political and academic feminists you claim are just jerks. And believe me, they ARE jerks. If you knew half of what I know about the things they've done under the banner of feminism, maybe you'd stop calling yourself one.

But I want you to know. You don't matter. You're not the director of the Feminist Majority Foundation and editor of Ms. Magazine, Katherine Spillar, who said of domestic violence: "Well, that's just a clean-up word for wife-beating," and went on to add that regarding male victims of dating violence, "we know it's not girls beating up boys, it's boys beating up girls."

You're not Jan Reimer, former mayor of Edmonton and long-time head of Alberta's Network of Women's Shelters, who just a few years ago refused to appear on a TV program discussing male victims of domestic violence, because for her to even show up and discuss it would lend legitimacy to the idea that they exist.

You're not Mary P Koss, who describes male victims of female rapists in her academic papers as being not rape victims because they were "ambivalent about their sexual desires" (if you don't know what that means, it's that they actually wanted it), and then went on to define them out of the definition of rape in the CDC's research because it's inappropriate to consider what happened to them rape.

You're not the National Organization for Women, and its associated legal foundations, who lobbied to replace the gender neutral federal Family Violence Prevention and Services Act of 1984 with the obscenely gendered Violence Against Women Act of 1994. The passing of that law cut male victims out of support services and legal assistance in more than 60 passages, just because they were male.

You're not the Florida chapter of the NOW, who successfully lobbied to have Governor Rick Scott veto not one, but two alimony reform bills in the last ten years, bills that had passed both houses with overwhelming bipartisan support, and were supported by more than 70% of the electorate.

You're not the feminist group in Maryland who convinced every female member of the House on both sides of the aisle to walk off the floor when a shared parenting bill came up for a vote, meaning the quorum could not be met and the bill died then and there.

You're not the feminists in Canada agitating to remove sexual assault from the normal criminal courts, into quasi-criminal courts of equity where the burden of proof would be lowered, the defendant could be compelled to testify, discovery would go both ways, and defendants would not be entitled to a public defender.

You're not Professor Elizabeth Sheehy, who wrote a book advocating that women not only have the right to murder their husbands without fear of prosecution if they make a claim of abuse, but that they have the moral responsibility to murder their husbands.

You're not the feminist legal scholars and advocates who successfully changed rape laws such that a woman's history of making multiple false allegations of rape can be excluded from evidence at trial because it's "part of her sexual history."

You're not the feminists who splattered the media with the false claim that putting your penis in a passed-out woman's mouth is "not a crime" in Oklahoma, because the prosecutor was incompetent and charged the defendant under an inappropriate statute (forcible sodomy) and the higher court refused to expand the definition of that statute beyond its intended scope when there was already a perfectly good one (sexual battery) already there. You're not the idiot feminists lying to the public and potentially putting women in Oklahoma at risk by telling potential offenders there's a "legal" way to rape them.

And you're none of the hundreds or thousands of feminist scholars, writers, thinkers, researchers, teachers and philosophers who constructed and propagate the body of bunkum theories upon which all of these atrocities are based.

You're the true feminist. Some random person on the internet.

VanlalruataDE · 2024-06-17T21:33:42+00:00

Wow, I am surprised that so many people replied to my post, and still only one downvote! Thanks people. Anyways, I don't have time now, I'm gonna reply to your comments tommorow! Also, thank you for staying civil, honestly wasn't expecting that!

househubbyintraining · 2024-06-18T02:28:18+00:00

Please stay civil in the comments.

😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂

Angryasfk · 2024-06-18T05:35:35+00:00

Rather than tell us, perhaps you need to tell the feminists, including leading ones.

11threpeater · 2024-06-17T20:43:23+00:00

We know here feminism means psuedo feminsim

YetAnotherCommenter · 2024-06-18T08:42:00+00:00

I agree there are people who call themselves feminist that aren't misandrist. However, the big issue is that the "official" feminist movement (the lobby groups, think tanks, women's studies departments, etc), and the kind of feminism that is promoted in the popular culture by this movement, are both feminist AND misandrist (I'd also argue some of their ideas are implicitly misogynist too, but that's another discussion).

Sure, in theory nonsexist feminism (or perhaps "advocacy for women's interests" is a more accurate term) is possible. Actually Existing Feminism, however, is generally very sexist.

People who call themselves feminist yet consistently reject sexism are, unfortunately, quite rare and lacking in influence.

jamiejagaimo · 2024-06-18T08:53:09+00:00

Absolutely not.

Where are the feminists advocating for equal coal miner and deep sea fisherman representation? Where are the women fighting for equality in the military draft? Where are the women fighting for equal marriage rights? Child custody rights?

No. Feminists are female supremacists. They are not egalitarian.

VanlalruataDE · 2024-06-17T21:50:25+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	Don't confuse Feminism with Sexism
Author	VanlalruataDE
Upvotes	0
Comments	76
Date	June 17, 2024 8:25 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1di81c8/dont_confuse_feminism_with_sexism/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/dont-confuse-feminism-with-sexism.1521865 https://theredarchive.com/post/1521865

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