Discussion: Be Yourself

SpaceWhiskey · 2017-03-11T04:04:22+00:00

It means don't be fake. If you're crushing on the girl in he coffee shop you see every day reading a book of poetry, don't claim to love poetry when you strike up conversation if you actually don't. Don't pretend to like animals if you don't to impress the girl you see with her dog in the park. Don't pretend to be into motorcycles to impress the biker chick. Etc. If you start dating that person, your lie will either be revealed and you'll look like an asshole, or, you'll pretend to like the thing and hate it until you explode with resentment and then you'll also look like an asshole.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2017-03-11T00:50:29+00:00

Just be yourself is good advice for people who are charming and personable in general but who get flustered around members of the sex to whom they are attracted (look lefties I'm being inclusive, I want progressive points).

It's not advice for people who's problem is they are atrocious to begin with. It's usually proffered by friends who enjoy your company and can't understand why your love objects are rejecting you so they just assume you're coming off weird, uncomfortable or fake and that if you just relaxed and were "yourself"(the person THEY like) then the other person would like you as much as they do

reepbot · 2017-03-11T00:42:46+00:00

The advice "be yourself" is a vague and useless phrase that ignores context and nuance. It is often uttered by people who do not care about the situation, but feel that they must say something because of their self-importance.

oignonne · 2017-03-11T01:03:10+00:00

I view it as generally acting as a way that is consistent with your core values and interests. You're not faking any major parts of your identity. I think this advice is generally okay in the context of relationships to avoid trying to make things work with someone who is horribly incompatible. It does not mean all behavior is appropriate or is going to be viewed favorably by a date. It does not mean you have to share all your baggage with someone on the first date. It does not mean you cannot ever dress better than you do on an average day or work to improve yourself in any way. It does not mean you cannot ever keep your thoughts to yourself (e.g. if you see someone on the street whose appearance you find bizarre, you don't have to blurt that out to them to "be yourself").
In just about any relationship I've been in or on dates I believe I've generally been myself. If someone finds me funny or friendly or we have shared interests, it's not because I've been faking those things. I think it's less of a concern for casual, one-time sex, for example, because long-term compatibility is not a concern.
If we are defining a failure here as a date not turning into a long-term relationship or sex, then yes, I have had dates that have gone that way. Not everyone has been interested in me. I have not been interested in everyone, whether that's because they did something clearly problematic (were rude to me or anyone else, assaulted me) or they seemed like a decent person, but I just didn't "click" with them. In those cases, being myself wasn't appealing enough to them or them being themselves (assuming they weren't pretending) wasn't appealing to me.
If you are nasty or cause any sort of harm to others and view that as a core part of your identity, then "being yourself" is problematic. If you are not satisfied with your relationships, it's okay to address the things about you that may be getting in the way, if changing is preferable to keeping your dating life the way it is. However, that might be about actually changing and becoming a new version of yourself, rather than pretending to be someone you are not. If you are pursuing a long-term relationship, I wouldn't recommend faking something that's going to cause you or your partner unhappiness in the long run. e.g. don't pretend you aren't interested in having children when you know having children at some point is a critical part of your life, just to feign compatibility in the short-term with someone.

EchoZeroEleven · 2017-03-11T03:39:20+00:00

I always took it to mean not to fake being someone else because it comes across as insincere. Personality-wise, be yourself. Physically, make sure you're the best you can be, whether that's diet/exercise or fashion.

EchoZeroEleven · 2017-03-11T00:17:26+00:00

Well like, it's really good advice, people are just dumb and don't know what it actually means(I used to be dumb like that).

Like for example, if I had a super cool friend who was nervous about a date, I'd be like "just be yourself, she'll like you, you're a super cool d00d" then yeah, that's fine.

If you're not a super cool dude, then don't be yourself. Should probably change yourself into a super cool dude.

Ultramegasaurus · 2017-03-11T09:11:31+00:00

It's a fucking platitude, nothing more. People are really hostile to the idea that there's a rather specific set of characteristics and behavior that women prefer.

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Littleknownfacts · 2017-03-11T00:20:28+00:00

As you see and understand it, what does "be yourself" mean? Please define it with your own words.

It means be your best self. Don't try to fake something you are not. Do not focus on the things you cannot change. Work on yourself until you are someone worth loving.

Can you give an example of when "being one's self" successfully allowed yourself or someone else to achieve a relationship and/or casual sex?

I'm not sure if this strictly counts, since as a woman I've never had a hard time finding sex or a relationship, but I did find my relationship much more fulfilling when I I allowed myself to be my natural feminine self. Rather than a forced controlling masculinity I was projecting. I still have all the same interests and hobbies, but I can let my guard down now and be myself.

Same as above, but please describe when the implementation of this advice lead to failure.

Never. But then again, I'm not a horrible person to begin with.

Is there ever a time when one should not be themselves, or when one's self is so terrible for achieving relationships and the like, that it is best to be someone/something else?

Yes. The overriding rule should be context. If yourself is jolly and jovial, then you should probably not be yourself at a funeral. I don't think most people are so terrible that they cannot be in a relationship at all. Going back to the first point, they should at least be trying to be their best selves.

EchoZeroEleven · 2017-03-11T00:47:20+00:00

It's yet another loaded phrase I guess. In one way it could mean "be confident about yourself", which is good advice. On the other hand it could be taken literally, which can end up in disaster.

Can you give an example of when "being one's self" successfully allowed yourself or someone else to achieve a relationship and/or casual sex?

Plenty of times, when I was actually just being myself and not focusing on being myself. When I was relaxed, just enjoying myself and then something came along. A few women said they got with me (short and long term) because I was more laid-back and more natural than others and I seemed 'different' cos of this.

Same as above, but please describe when the implementation of this advice lead to failure.

So many times on dates, when I felt nervous but tried to just 'be myself' I came across in the wrong way. In relationships, I sometimes took just being myself to mean just that, and not pay attention to what was going on in the relationship. "Well, if she doesnt like me for who I am, fuck her." Looking back, this was sometimes just me not knowing what to do and throwing a tantrum.

Some examples

texting someone you dont know well like an old friend.
talking to someone like an old friend on an actual date (this is how you end up 'just friends'). Complaining about stuff and showing insecurity like I would with a close friend, for example.
I'm laidback, so failing to enforce boundaries because I wanted to avoid a conflict.
I used to be quite naturally over-sympathetic to everyone, which lead to me not making moves when I should've in the past, and the chance was lost.

Is there ever a time when one should not be themselves, or when one's self is so terrible for achieving relationships and the like, that it is best to be someone/something else?

Lots and lots of times. I guess the 'self' is fluid though, and no one has one true defined self. Your have to adapt your self to different situations. My self with my family is different to my self with my friends, and my work self is very unlike either of those. The self I was at my job interview is very different from my work self now Ive done a year at my job.

So the idea of a self is fluid.

I guess "dont be fake, try and be confident" is where Id put that advice. "Try and give a good impression of yourself, know your limits and communicate certain things." But I think it is shit advice, worded as "just be yourself". It isnt concrete advice.

IIHotelYorba · 2017-03-11T00:55:45+00:00

As you see and understand it, what does "be yourself" mean? Please define it with your own words.

It has a few different meanings. Girls typically mean to stop faking shit to impress people, to recognize you own value and stop trying so damn hard. Incels and TRPers tend to mean doing absolutely nothing differently than what you usually do in social situations. Natural game PUAs mean the same thing girls do: being afraid/deferential/trying to impress is a defense mechanism that isn't what you'd do naturally if you were happy, feeling free, like how many people are NATURALLY with close friends and family.

Can you give an example of when "being one's self" successfully allowed yourself or someone else to achieve a relationship and/or casual sex?

Every time I ever got laid from natural game. Freely being yourself is what defines "Chad's" attitude. You are not stifled, you are free to have fun and use your whole personality. Who in caveman tribe would feel like they could freely express themselves and not try to impress anyone? The leaders. The better I do this the better my results get. It is the core concept of my success.

Same as above, but please describe when the implementation of this advice lead to failure.

I'm hesitant to say this but being yourself has a polarizing effect. People quickly learn who you are so the people who are going to like you do relatively quickly. But this also means the people who aren't going to like you get polarized away from you relatively quickly.

Is there ever a time when one should not be themselves, or when one's self is so terrible for achieving relationships and the like, that it is best to be someone/something else?

Sort of. In extreme cases you should be willing to try LOTS of new things, really take them on and experience them in good faith, and see if they are "you." Sometimes "you" someone who does not bathe. So be the you that bathes, which isn't that hard of a concept for most people. People have different moods and different times in their lives. If you try something and it really isn't you, hey, so be it.

washington_breadstix · 2017-03-11T02:18:23+00:00

Please define it with your own words.

When given as advice in real life it just means "relax." Don't try to put on some kind of show and act cool because people can see through that.

As for your other questions, "being oneself" works all the time for people who are naturally charismatic and who enter social situations without having to put any thought into whether they're "being themselves" or not.

It's pretty good advice to give to someone with functioning social skills who just needs a little confidence boost. It's NOT good advice to give to an obese basement-dwelling nice guy with Asperger syndrome who wants to know why he isn't landing supermodels.

EchoZeroEleven · 2017-03-11T02:27:44+00:00

There is no self it's an illusion.
It's never lead me into a successful relationship; hiding my feelings, being stoic have gotten me into relationships.

EchoZeroEleven · 2017-03-11T04:21:20+00:00

Being yourself is expressing your interests and identity in every interaction...calibrated for social appropriateness but never altered to better fit in.

To be yourself you must first find yourself.

...

You don't do it sitting at home playing videogames, for sure.

brewmastermonk · 2017-03-11T06:48:46+00:00

I've always assumed that "be yourself" meant to be honest about your values and hobbies. A lot of people use it as an excuse to showcase their insecurities though.

Daniel_Bryan_Fan · 2017-03-11T00:30:46+00:00

Being yourself is effective advice if you follow it through to its logical conclusion of also liking yourself. If you're insecure (not confident in yourself) then you're not going anywhere.

stats135 · 2017-03-11T00:59:39+00:00

The way I see it, the part of the "be yourself" advice that causes issues isn't the "yourself" part of it, but the "be" part of it.

"Being" something (whether that something is "yourself" or not) does not get you laid. Even Chad doesn't get laid just by merit of being Chad. At the very minimum, Chad has to go out and talk to people before he can get laid.

Men have to "do" things to if they want sex. It doesn't matter what or who you are being. What matters is what you are doing. The natural progression is then asking question s like "what is the most efficient way of doing thing to get laid?". And once you start asking questions like these, you are half way into RP territory.

alreadyredschool · 2017-03-11T01:14:57+00:00

As you see and understand it, what does "be yourself" mean? Please define it with your own words.

Remain the person you are now. That person is your authentic self.

Can you give an example of when "being one's self" successfully allowed yourself or someone else to achieve a relationship and/or casual sex?

Well I have been able to get laid by "being myself" but truly this was more dumb luck than anything else.

Same as above, but please describe when the implementation of this advice lead to failure.

When you see it as I described in my first answer, and therefore do not make any effort to improve yourself.

Is there ever a time when one should not be themselves, or when one's self is so terrible for achieving relationships and the like, that it is best to be someone/something else?

Yes, plenty of times. If you're not getting girls and you want to, then you need to change yourself. If you're bombing out on every job interview, you need to change yourself. If you're not even looking for work at all, you need to change yourself. If you're lonely and have no friends, you need to change yourself.

The list goes on and on...

Who you are is not static. People change and develop throughout their entire lives, even as adults.

This is the issue with "just be yourself." It essentially tells people that who they are now is fine due to some vague idea of authenticity and discourages personal improvement.

More than that, it starts from a faulty premise in the first place.

You do not have a fixed self. No one does. You pick up new skills, interests, and hobbies, meet new people, hang out with new groups, get new jobs... pretty much every metric you use to define who you are is gonna change multiple times throughout your life.

There is therefore no such thing as your true self. You are best off deciding what your goal in life is then adapting yourself in such a way that you will achieve it than you are chasing after some elusive idea of your "true self."

PMmeareasontolive · 2017-03-11T02:58:27+00:00

"Being yourself" generally doesn't work when people have limited time in which to get to know one another, thus first impressions have to count and early interactions have to be efficient.

You have to master communication to some degree.

At my job I used to think it was enough to be on time and work hard. Then I realized my boss had no idea what I did and people who succeeded there had a component of self promotion which made them successful.

Carkudo · 2017-03-11T03:47:32+00:00

Well technically trying to be alpha never got me anything. Being my omega self landed me my current relationship.

spikeybumpy · 2017-03-11T04:18:03+00:00

It means behave as you would 'naturally' or behaving without acting.
No. I can only speak for myself as I don't know who other people are on the inside.
Being respectful, being kind, showing interest, abstaining from negging.
Nearly every social situation. Nobody wants to help or give you anything so when you want something, and you aren't naturally a dark triad Bateman type, you have to cease being yourself and put on an act.

despisedlove2 · 2017-03-11T05:47:12+00:00

Be yourself is the only good advice anyone can get. Living a life that isn't you is a self betrayal.

The reason for the debate is that men aren't being raised much to be men anymore, and women, well, they ceased acting like human beings decades ago. You can thank feminism for that.

The mistake lies in ourselves, not this timeless advice.

damaskrose · 2017-03-11T17:28:16+00:00

Don't be fake, or you'll just attract people who love your fake persona and not the real you. Eventually your true colors will show and they'll be disappointed you're not the person they thought, and probably leave.

Best case scenario, you maintain frame forever, she somehow miraculously doesn't leave you for being emotionally unavailable, but you'll never have real emotional intimacy in your relationship. And without that, what's the point? Might as well just stick with casual sex.

cateml · 2017-03-12T03:45:48+00:00

I always took it to mean that you should present who you are rather than attempting to be the person you think someone else will like - primarily because people can tell you're being fake and you'll never be able to pull it off as well as a person who is actually 'like that'.

It doesn't mean not working on being 'the best version of yourself' though. Like if you're shy, it's finding the confidence to converse with people as a shy person rather than pretending you're a naturally extroverted person. Its hard to explain, but everyone knows there is an intrinsic difference there.

It also doesn't mean 'do whatever the hell you feel like, including being cruel or saying unkind things, because otherwise you're fake', which is what some people take it to mean. If 'yourself' is a dick, you can work on being a non-dick version of yourself by focussing on the positive traits you (hopefully) also have.

I have a good real life example:
I have a friend, lets call him Steve. Steve isn't perfect, but he is generally a good guy with a lot of great qualities. Intelligent, funny, cares about friends and family, has interests and passions. Lots of qualities that make you want to be around him (which is why I'm friends with him). Bit of a nerd but in a self aware funny way.
The problem is that he is also constantly tries to be someone he isn't. When we first met at 18, we also knew some guys who were more confident, from richer backgrounds who had more opportunities in terms of travel and experiences, didn't question themselves as much (again, money and looks related privilege tends to go hand in hand with that). To reduce things to the level Red Pill likes to see them, were more 'Alpha' to Steve's being generally 'Beta'. Steve had girlfriends and managed to get with girls, but not as many or the very prettiest girls like these guys. Steve had plenty of friends, but wasn't the 'most popular' like these guys.
The problem was - Steve was obsessed with them and this fact, and constantly tried to emulate them at the expense of all his actual personality and positive qualities. I remember one time meeting up with him, and he was dressed exactly like one of these guys - not in general, one particular guy we knew. And I mean... to the extent it looked like he'd dressed up as this guy for Halloween or whatever. It was fucking hilarious and took every bone of kindness not to just laugh in his face. He would and does go out of his way to emulate all of these guys at every opportunity, and to act like he was better than everyone else and look down on everyone who wasn't 'the best'.
And I'm going to be honest - this makes Steve really hard to be around. For me and our other friends who completely share my issue with him. His trying to be the Macho Alpha is so obviously not who he is, it just comes across as really desperate and insecure. And the great bits of Steve, the dry sense of humour and the caring nature, get lost underneath the performance. Talking to him is exhausting because it feels like you're talking to an ego, not a person. His whole existence is about getting things (money, status through other means) to be 'that person' rather than valuing what he actually has/wants, and being that judgemental about himself makes him judgemental about everyone else. Consistently paranoid that people are 'better' than him (one dude we know isn't 'An Alpha' but has been successful in a cool field and is with a girl Steve liked for a bit but is no longer interested in, and still a decade later Steve literally winces through cognitive dissonance every time this guy is mentioned, because all Steve can see is someone who 'won' even when Steve doesn't actually want any of the things this guy has). He doesn't actually get any more girls than he used to or is any more popular than he used to be, because of aforementioned aura of desperation and insecurity.
And to be honest, I (and other friends) still like Steve and see him on occasion (because for his faults he is just a really insecure and unfulfilled person and I care about him), but I (and others) can't bring myself to hang out with him that often.

The purpose of this long story was I always think of Steve when this comes up, because he is the ultimate cautionary tale in what it means to 'not be yourself'.

methylotroph · 2017-03-12T14:49:33+00:00

It is great advice if yourself is not interested in getting laid.

[deleted] · 2017-03-12T21:13:48+00:00

"Be yourself" is only useful advice if you're holding back a passionate, crazy fun extrovert. Otherwise, it's useless advice.

Ercole-- · 2017-03-11T00:39:02+00:00

As you see and understand it, what does "be yourself" mean? Please define it with your own words.

Whatever you want it to mean. That's the beauty of ambiguity. You don't have to feel guilty for giving bad advice because you can just claim that the way it was used is not the way you intended.

Can you give an example of when "being one's self" successfully allowed yourself or someone else to achieve a relationship and/or casual sex?

No. I'd say the only interpretation of 'be yourself' that's remotely practical is when it's taken reassuringly and it eases your nerves. And if it does that, you probably didn't even need it.

Same as above, but please describe when the implementation of this advice lead to failure.

Still not giving you an example from my life. 'Being yourself' would fail miserably if yourself doesn't know what he/she's doing.

Is there ever a time when one should not be themselves, or when one's self is so terrible for achieving relationships and the like, that it is best to be someone/something else?

I think 'be someone else' is ill-advised. Granted, I've never tried it. It just conjures images of the few people I actually dislike, those with no authentic personality. You might know the type, the guy who's existence you forget before you're done talking to him. I wouldn't advise copying his act.

Better non advice, imo, would be to tell you to be happy with yourself before you can expect to be happy with someone else. Why haven't I heard that since 2010?

Title	Discussion: Be Yourself
Author	EchoZeroEleven
Upvotes	9
Comments	213
Date	March 11, 2017 12:06 AM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/5ypqsf/discussion_be_yourself/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/discussion-be-yourself.269556 https://theredarchive.com/post/269556

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