Angry people at Harvard can't stand anyone defending the falsely accused

surfnsound · 2012-02-02T20:58:47+00:00

My comment mentioning anonymity for the accused which I think was overlooked by many:

"Coming forward and being branded a liar must be even more difficult, and is incredibly unfair to someone who is seeking justice and trying to do what is right after being horribly victimized. "

What about being falsely branded as a sex offender and then having that accusation live on in perpetuity even after those accusation never come to any sort of resolution that shows them to be the truth? I'm not one to claim the number of false rape accusation is high, but the fact remains that it can be a horrible, vengeful tool at anyone's disposal should they be so unscrupulous to use it against someone.

The evidence of it's impact can be seen in Ms. Woods own post trying to fight against the fear of false accusations. She spends nearly half her piece discussing the allgations against Mr. Witt, meanwhile acknowledging that the identity of the accuser remains unknown. Therein lies the imbalance that drives the fear of the false accusation.

However, Ms. Wood fails to mention the single biggest step that could be taken to reduce the fear of false allegations and with it the backlash and doubt that is placed on accusers of sexual misconduct, that is full anonynmity for both parties until a trial. If you remove the fear of a cloud hanging over the head of the falsely accused, and the perpetual doubt it will create about their character for the rest of their lives, the less likely anyone will be to immediately cast doubt on the accuser because the motivation for a false accusation will have been removed.

Celda · 2012-02-02T17:38:15+00:00

My comment, pointing out the fact that her claim "women would not report false rape claims for trivial reasons like missing a midterm" was false, with several examples.

No insults or attacks on women, simply factual statements.

Not approved as of yet.

DevinV · 2012-02-02T21:21:36+00:00

It gets better.

On the original piece at FRS, an idiot feminist suggests that the way to stop women falsely crying rape because they don't want to pay their cab fares is to stop charging women cab fares.

It's just unbelievable stupidity on multiple levels.

I guess when you're an overprivileged princess who has grown up with everyone doing everything for you and you've never had to find out how the world actually works (like people, mainly men, have to do jobs to put food on the table), you would consider it a practical business model to give women rides for free.

I wonder if she thinks women having to ever pay for anything is "oppression."

These are a bunch of fucking girls.

carchamp1 · 2012-02-02T18:30:27+00:00

I was going to read it but the title stopped me in my tracks:

"The Myth of the False Accusal"

When they start with that you just know it'll be a pile of shit.

Celda · 2012-02-02T23:13:35+00:00

I made a comment:

Let's not forget the situation that Emma herself has described in this very article.

A woman makes an informal, anonymous accusation of rape / sexual assault. This accusation, of which nothing is proved, results in a man having his scholarship revoked AND HIS NAME TRUMPETED IN THE NEW YORK TIMES AS A RAPIST.

A clear injustice, is it not? Surely no man (and I do mean man, because women have the privilege of being safe from this) should be punished in this way without any proof of wrongdoing? Surely, this article will point that out?

Sadly, no. Emma Wood is more concerned about the "swampy terrain" of sexual assault and the "myth of false accusations."

How on earth can Emma, or any other rational person, examine these facts and conclude "Hmm, yes. Clearly we live in a patriarchal, misogynist society where women are oppressed and rape victims are shamefully marginalized."

TracyMorganFreeman · 2012-02-02T19:19:19+00:00

Every now and then, the Sheriff of the falserapesociety gathers his trolls, and caravans over to a legitimate blog. He brings with him a brand of flippant sarcacism combined with intimidation intended to coerce you into submission (total agreement) as if his opinion were the only opinion worth considering. His style is quite similar to that of the rapist .... control, intimidation, coercion, and superiority.

The irony is strong this [accusation].

"Dissension is good - if communicated properly. But when a comment starts out with sneers such as "presumably a straight face", you know it's going to go downhill from there and reek of harassment. Please ban those who cannot communicate without barbs."

TL;DR: it's only okay to disagree with me if you hold my hand and don't hurt my feelings doing it.

throwaway000000999 · 2012-02-02T21:55:46+00:00

as a man who has been falsely accused or rape, and had the power to completely ruin the girl's life, but didn't, and forgave her, and made sure that the college didn't punish her, because I figured that she wouldn't do it again, and she was going through a very hard time, and who cares very deeply about the women in my life, it disgusts me that some women wouldn't give guys like me the benefit of the doubt. yes, this woman is right. for most people, falsely accusing someone of rape is an outrageous idea. but so is committing rape for just as many men. it's just reverse sexism to say otherwise.

This sentence I found particularly troubling: "I have even found myself questioning my own past experiences, unwilling and unable to categorize them." Thinking like that makes me scared of having sex with women. I guess in the future I just need to make sure I can completely trust someone, because that's what having sex with someone is nowadays. You're life can be fucked over based on no evidence and just on someone's word. Even with me, after I proved the girl's story wrong to the college, some people still don't fully believe that I didn't do anything. Even female friends of mine who have slept in beds with me simply as friends.

We need to get out of the mentality that some serious percentage of men want to rape women, just as much as we need to not shame women who have been raped or assume that they are lying.

Seriously. I can't imagine going to jail for something like that and then actually knowing what rape is.

TheRealPariah · 2012-02-02T18:30:06+00:00

There are plenty of reasonable, rational people at Harvard; they just don't say anything because they will get attacked relentlessly by the people who make those comments. You aren't going to change their opinions so why bother with the headache?

Many people make the mistake of thinking any statement which points out the flaws in their assertions or conclusions is an "attack" and become emotionally invested and defensive. Disagreement and differing opinions != barbs. Always so willing to censor everyone. So funny.

God forbid witness accounts were met with the scrutiny they should be in a system where people are innocent until proven guilty. God forbid women are judged as a clean slate and her characteristics and past speak to the truth of her current statements. God forbid men are not viciously attacked at the mere whisper of rape. Who would have thought starting at neutral would be so revolutionary.

buffalo_pete · 2012-02-02T18:31:44+00:00

This is good. The more that we show that radical bigots such as these have no leg to stand on in debating us (either morally or rhetorically), the more they have to resort to shoutdowns and censorship, the more blatant and obvious their attempts to hold double-standards of what constitutes "appropriate dissension" (WTF)...the more they hasten their own demise as it becomes obvious that they spread nothing but hate.

cuteman · 2012-02-02T20:50:08+00:00

A) getting out of a midterm is a pretty weak reason and even as someone who has witnessed a false accusation, I would not suggest such. While this probably has happened in the past I'd said the main chunk of false claims from guilt, regret, avoiding responsibility for cheating. But also rarely curfew, not wanting to pay for a cab, etc.
B) Public opinion on such things is largely irrelevant to a professional investigation. Crimson OP states that the accuser wants to remain anonymous and "rightfully so" but cavilerly cites the accuseds name multiple times. It is this mentality is what caused the Rhodes thing to vaporize at the mere suggestion of assault. Investigation much less evidence or trial be damned.
C) Public opinion devoid of fact and evidence has no place in these situations. If the articles author could understand this and researched the facts she would see that while not as frequent as assaults themselves, happen at alarmly above average rates for other fraudulent complaints of felonies. This rate of fraudulent complaints increases moreover in the university setting. So while no one will deny rapes happen, fraudulent complaints also happen and at higher rates than normal fraudulent claims (insurance fraud, etc.). So why is it less acceptable to afford the accused due process and color blind investigation when the potential consequences of an innocent person being treated unfairly are sometimes beyond the damage a real crime of the same nature inflicts (I would argue arrest, imprisonment, potentially and most likely being raped in prison all while truly innocent is WORSE than someone being raped on the street.)
D) all I would ask is fair, fact based, protection for the accused until guilty. Is that so unreasonable? Lowering the burden of proof does increase convictions but so too does it increase the number of innocents being punished for fraudulent complaints. Therefore the only sane thing is to let the police handle it and keep activist and amateur universities out of it entirely. There is no legal expectation for backlash in saying the police are investigating, we must wait for their evidence and investigation. This alone would go a long way towards curing the problem.

Kuonji · 2012-02-02T18:41:11+00:00

The problem is that false rape accusations really fall into (at least) 2 different categories. You have those, that the article attempts to address, where a woman is vindictive, uncaring or attempting to cover her own ass for something where she outright lies, knows that she's lying and is comfortable with that lie. But the other category - and I think it would be much more common - is the woman that actually believes that she was raped, while the guy actually believes she consented. The article doesn't address this type of situation at all.

Prior to 1980, the term "date rape" didn't even exist. Of course, just because it didn't have a name, doesn't mean that the concept didn't exist.

The problem is that women have now been so brainwashed by the "date rape" mentality, that they honestly believe that things are rape (or sexual assault) that men honest believe are not. You even see it here on Reddit, on a regular basis. Some women believe that "unenthusiastic consent" is rape. So if you're with one of those women, and you ask 3 times for sex before she finally consents, that woman is going to believe that you raped her because you "coerced" her into having sex with you. As a man, I find that fucking ridiculous. But that doesn't change the fact that, based upon the brainwashing, the girl honestly believes she was raped.

The author of the article even eludes to this brainwashing when she says:

As a senior member of Response Peer Counseling, I have spent fifty-seven hours of the past three academic years in training about issues of sexual assault, abuse, dating, and other relationship issues.

Depending upon who is presenting this "training" and what their personal philosophy is, the training itself can be part of the brainwashing process. If you go to a "training" session, and the "expert" tells you that a particular situation is rape, you're going to be inclined to believe that the person wouldn't be conducting the training if they didn't know what the fuck they were talking about.

Furthermore, those radical feminist that both lead and following the brainwashing often end up trying to convince women that they were raped, even if the woman doesn't believe it to begin with. How many time have 5 girlfriends sat around in a dorm room listening to one tell of a regrettable sexcapade, only to have one or more of the others try to convince her to "report him" because she was raped. When in reality, she made a poor decision for herself under the influence of drugs, alcohol, money or desire for acceptance?

The bottom line is, you can't have a serious and legitimate debate about false accusations unless you first identify which type of false accusation you're talking about.

GavnLogic · 2012-02-02T20:00:21+00:00

"The Myth of the False Accusation"

That's pretty strange - the only myth that's actually real!

darkon · 2012-02-02T21:39:16+00:00

Ignoring the strange hypothetical of a person trying to get out of class by claiming rape (huh?), I was mostly sympathetic until I reached this:

To me, this pervasive fear [of false accusation of rape] points to a world in which men are aware of an unearned cultural dominance. Since they know their authority has not been obtained but inherited, they fear losing it to a resentful woman, whose only tool in their eyes—one to be used for good or for evil—remains her sexuality.

To me, this fear of a false accusation of rape points to a world where a man's life can be ruined even if he is completely guiltless in every way. The rest of the paragraph says plenty about the author's beliefs, but it certainly does not describe me, nor do I think it describes most men, if it describes any at all.

2012-02-02T21:56:22+00:00

I see 55 comments here, but only about 25 comments on that Harvard website... Redditors... I think we can do better. I have left a (constructive) comment under her op-ed. You can as well.

breakwater · 2012-02-02T22:30:56+00:00

So why do most of my peers and elders believe that a false rape accusation is the easiest way for a young woman to torpedo the aspirations of a successful young man?

Can you think of a better one? Seriously, if I wanted to ruin a man's life, shy of physical violence, I cannot think of a single better way than to falsely accuse him of rape.

2012-02-02T23:49:57+00:00

Emma Wood writes like someone who falsely accuses men of rape.

1angrydad · 2012-02-02T21:18:04+00:00

I think a great way to stem this tide of misandrist "guilty until a woman says otherwise" nonsense would be be to punish the false accuser with the same sentence the falsely accused faced. You rape a woman, 20 years in jail. A woman falsely accuses a man of rape, 20 years in jail.

Never happen, of course. Justice for a feminist is a one way street, and they are the traffic cops.

2012-02-02T17:48:32+00:00

Nice comment on her post Pierce.

It is morally disgusting but this is how feminists think, she put it proudly on display.

Her comment about "handsome" I thought was especially misandric but especially gross comming from a feminist and someone who judges cases like this.

I hope the alumni are paying attention.....their boy is next.

2012-02-03T05:25:19+00:00

It's really fun to debate feminists on this kind of thing in real life. They fume, spew at the mouth, get in your face and threaten you.

2012-02-03T11:08:37+00:00

Ugh. Whenever I try to defend men falsely accused of rape, feminists call me a victim-blamer, misogynist, and a bunch of other shit. I guess they missed the part where I specified FALSELY.

2012-02-02T21:18:21+00:00

Hello Reddit. This is what I posted on the comment section of that article. I doubt it will be posted, considering the language I used. Here it is:

"Therefore, we should not be asking the impossible question of “Did Witt assault this woman?” Instead, we should ask..." Lol, I'm sorry... but what the fuck is this? How is that an impossible question? That's the very same question the courts decide daily on rape cases. Why shouldn't we ask ourselves the same question?

I am from McMaster University, Canada, Ontario. And I am disappointed that some in the student body of Harvard, like yourself, Emma, are trying to remove the tried and tested idea of "innocent until proven guilty" from jurisprudence because of your sick and misguided belief that all man accused of rape are guilty.

2012-02-03T08:19:34+00:00

it sounds like the author is surprised by the concept of a fair trial and 'innocent until proven guilty' philosophy

funnyfaceking · 2012-02-03T08:50:31+00:00

Sue her ass for defamation.

Il128 · 2012-02-03T15:39:24+00:00

According to /r/shitredditsays there are no false rape accusations only degrees of rapeiness.

SilencingNarrative · 2012-02-03T16:34:21+00:00

I thought the commentors did an excellent job of criticizing her piece. I did not do a careful count but the well reasoned and MRA sympathetic posts seemed to be in the vast majority.

This is an excellent example of how the MRM is mobilizing and outmaneuvering bastions of misandry like the absurd sexual assault grievance processes in universities.

edit: just did another read of the comments. there were several first hand accounts posted of false accusations and how they ruined the lives of the accused. that sort of response to the article greatly augments the quoting of statistics on how common false accusations are. Well done, people. And thank you, Pierce, for your work at FRS. You have done a lot to make this sort of response possible.

NiceGuysSTFU · 2012-02-02T21:01:52+00:00

If the shoe fits...

Title	Angry people at Harvard can't stand anyone defending the falsely accused
Author	PierceHarlan
Upvotes	149
Comments	176
Date	February 2, 2012 5:18 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/p7we1/angry_people_at_harvard_cant_stand_anyone/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/angry-people-at-harvard-cant-stand-anyone.1028342 https://theredarchive.com/post/1028342

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