A person has claimed that I'm unfair to menslib in relation to permission to criticize feminism

Egalitarianwhistle · 2020-04-23T18:18:59+00:00

They deleted a series of comments that criticized the bias behind their long propaganda piece about the "extreme rareness" of false rape accusations. Many of the deleted comments were questions about methodology and some were merely basic mathematical corrections to the OP.

That's around when I left Menslib. You should never censor scientific rigor. Sadly for those mods it's par for the course.

Oncefa2 · 2020-04-23T18:16:41+00:00

I was banned for mentioning the wealth gap, where 60% of wealth in the US is owned by women. And how that effects the wage gap and the life expectancy gap.

I don't think they liked the idea that "men supporting women" was responsible for these issues. Even though that's literally a gender role that shackles men and is in line with the idea of "men's liberation". Literally liberating men from that gender role.

An identical post I made in r/MensRights was guilded and stickied lol.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/cwn3n9/the_wealth_gap_51_60_of_all_wealth_belongs_to/

bkrugby78 · 2020-04-23T16:56:06+00:00

It depends on what type of feminist orientation. If it's criticizing Gender Critical, then yes, it's allowed to a degree. If it's criticizing the current feminist views, then no.

DevilishRogue · 2020-04-23T19:02:49+00:00

Specifically the claim is that "It's not against the rules (of that subreddit) to criticize specific feminist-oriented positions or policies"

Is that a fair and accurate depiction of the behavior of mods for that subreddit?

No. Last time I looked at the rules there it specifically said that non-feminist views would be removed and users posting them banned. Looking at the content that appears to still be being policed in practice even if it is not longer explicitly stated in the rules there. I see the rules have been rewritten now but the content appears the same.

That sub is not a sub interested in dialogue (other than gaslighting). It is not interested in critical analysis of feminism or feminist positions, the same as all feminist subreddits, because they are demonstrably relying on non-falsifiable hypotheses, misleading statistics, and have no counter-arguments to criticisms that demonstrate why the feminist position is wrong.

Flaktrack · 2020-04-23T20:01:27+00:00

I commented a little early on but then they banned all discussion of men choosing whether or not they must have and be responsible for unwanted children. Their head mod actually outright said that if you don't want a child, don't have sex. Yes, they used the pro-life moral authoritarian response in a place claiming to be pro-choice.

Both partners in consensual heterosexual sex impliedly consent to the possibility of pregnancy. Women have an option men don't when choosing to carry a fetus to term for two reasons: it's mainly a question of her bodily autonomy, and she bears the wildly disproportionate burden of pregnancy, childbirth, and rearing the resultant child if the father tries to shirk his duty. Once the child is born, both parents have an equal and indivisible responsibility to care for that child, including monetary child support if they choose not to be involved with the child's life.
I'm glad to see the idea isn't gaining much traction here, because "financial abortion" is an absolute dereliction of the responsibility a man takes on when he consents to sex. Simply because it's a popular talking point in the MRM, I'm leaving this thread up - but this will be the one and only thread where this will be countenanced as a legitimate proposal, so get it out of your system here if you must.

Emphasis mine. The comment in question by Ciceros_Assassin.

This is why menslib can eat shit.

Kravego · 2020-04-23T21:51:53+00:00

No that's not an accurate depiction of that sub's mods. They insta-delete any comments criticizing feminism, and ban anyone who comments about it more than once.

/r/menslib is a fucking shitstain.

pvtshoebox · 2020-04-23T17:17:31+00:00

I was banned for criticizing NOW of Florida's misinformed rebuke to proposed legislation supporting the presumption if shared custody.

https://m.facebook.com/floridanow/posts/1140620725956709

She says that the bill requires 50-50 but it simply does not.

2020-04-23T16:58:57+00:00

Most definitely not. I was permabanned on my previous account for questioning the relevance of their articles.

AskingToFeminists · 2020-04-23T20:03:36+00:00

I wouldn't know, I was banned from there without ever posting, because I was banned from askfeminists. If that isn't telling, though...

peanutbutterjams · 2020-04-23T21:34:57+00:00

Someone said that feminism was the only ideology through which we could learn to be respectful to each other as a species. I carefully mentioned that would be humanism, not feminism, and it's disrespectful to all the men who predate feminism and who worked hard to create a more egalitarian society to call such a movement 'feminism'. Also that it promoted traditional gender roles by further associating women with empathy.

The entire thread was deleted.

There's been 2-3 other times when I've had comments deleted. I forget the specific details but they were all when I in any way didn't toe the line. I'm not a traditional "MRA" and like to build bridges but... I find it hard to see how that sub doesn't have internalized misandry. They're like the women who protested against universal suffrage.

Men's advocacy means being able to criticize feminism. Anything less means it's not really a men's group but a male feminist group.

Thank you /u/serpentineeyelash for creating this sub. I was there when you did it and was excited about the possibilities. I'm so glad to see it on my front page every time I log on and to see how much it's grown.

Men deserve this third space, a space between traditional MRAs and feminism, and I think 'male advocate' is the perfect term. It's what I've been using to distinguish myself from MRAs because whether you think the perception is justified or not, that well has been poisoned.

GingerRazz · 2020-04-23T19:02:52+00:00

I can't really weigh in heavily because I'm pretty sure I'm shadow banned or something and am just too lazy to check at this point. My comments where I tried to be civil as possible in posts not even mentioning feminism got no interaction, even votes.

It was in a thread about male rape victims of rape, and my story I told was about a man raping me. No votes, no comments, nothing. The thread was pretty young, too. To me, any sub that shadow bans people just for being active on a sub that disagrees with them is probably an echo chamber cesspool.

Nath43673 · 2020-04-23T21:53:30+00:00

I had a comment deleted for politely criticising terminology, specifically Toxic Masculinity, in response to another comment defending the term.

The justification for deleting my comment was that discussions of terminology take discussions off track. Of course, the comment I was responding to was at least as pedantic as mine, but it remained.

EDIT: I should add that, as long as you know that its perspective is deliberately limited, I think there are sometimes interesting posts and discussions on that sub, so I still read it and even contribute occasionally.

2020-04-23T22:08:48+00:00

It's not against the rules (of that subreddit) to criticize specific feminist-oriented positions or policies

They're a bunch of liars, so damn full of shit and excuse me if that sounds harsh but, it's true. I've seen comments removed that simply are fair and not even overly critical of feminism but, that sub wants to keep such a closed lid on wrong think where the most benign comments that may be seen as a disagreement with the standard prevailing narrative on that sub end up being removed.

That sub simply just sucks. It's an excellent example of how terrible reddit can be.

Fulgurum · 2020-04-23T23:50:59+00:00

I left that sub when I mentioned that the current school system is tailored around girls and thats partly why boys are so far behind and I got mass downvoted/insulted.

SamHanes10 · 2020-04-24T00:00:56+00:00

I think a good term for what you are encountering is "a politician's truth". That is, technically, the mods do allow people to criticise certain aspects of feminism (e.g. TERFs or feminists that support men rather than women). Therefore, technically, the statement that "it's not against the rules (of that subreddit) to criticize specific feminist-oriented positions or policies" is true.

Practically, however, only certain 'pre-approved' criticisms of feminism are allow, and thus the technical 'truth' is just for show. In reality, it is not possible most aspects of feminism without being banned.

Of course, there is no point arguing with that person about it. At best, you'll end up in a argument about terminology about something being 'technically true' or not. Most likely, the person is acting in bad faith and won't ever see your point-of-view. In all cases, it will just be a waste of time. Move on to something more productive. People who support menslib are a lost cause - they are simply too biased and too broken to be reached.

Cookiedoughjunkie · 2020-04-23T18:52:34+00:00

menslib isn't a mens right or advocacy sub, it's another feminazi sub.

They literally ban you if you make sure your post DOESN'T demonize feminism. If you talk about how toxic masculinity from a masculine male hurts a nonmasculine male you HAVE To make sure that you post how feminism is great, or at the very least make sure you post "Women aren't the problem here"

needletothebar · 2020-04-24T00:30:34+00:00

that sub is misandrist trash. don't bother with it.

dontpet · 2020-04-24T01:41:40+00:00

I try to engage all forms of discussions about men. I'm genuinely curious. Every time I have joined the sub after a few days of watching comments I've noped away. Cringe is my response.

mhandanna · 2020-04-24T13:00:57+00:00

The issue I have with these places is that they are echo chambers with no critical rigor to back up claims, Then as all opposiong or cirtical views (not even critical, just testing the datat and claims) is removed, it creates a biased perception that this is the narrative. Confirmation bias and group think ensue, as the people think that everyone agrees with this view. I like how MRAs pages, not that I am on, becasue they usually keep troll posts from oppossing views in and engage. They can suffer from the same thing of people posting wrong stuff, but thats more due to ignorance than agenda, and when sources are corrected these comments correting it are not deleted stealthily or users banned! I much prefer the MRA forums for discussion because of this. This reddit seems good so far, but I dont know not bee here long.

cromulent_weasel · 2020-04-23T22:09:08+00:00

Specifically the claim is that "It's not against the rules (of that subreddit) to criticize specific feminist-oriented positions or policies"

Are you talking about MensLib? Because if so, that's a fairly BS position to take. You either get banned or your posted deleted or both if you do that.

Is that a fair and accurate depiction of the behavior of mods for that subreddit?

Sorry, I'm not quite clear on exactly what you are saying or how it relates to the above quote.

genkernels · 2020-04-23T22:20:56+00:00

Specifically the claim is that "It's not against the rules (of that subreddit) to criticize specific feminist-oriented positions or policies"

Bwahaha.

Oncefa2 · 2020-04-24T02:04:09+00:00

Someone said they defended a female rapist

Title	A person has claimed that I'm unfair to menslib in relation to permission to criticize feminism
Author	czerdec
Upvotes	40
Comments	51
Date	April 23, 2020 3:57 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/g6p7wl/a_person_has_claimed_that_im_unfair_to_menslib_in/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/a-person-has-claimed-that-im-unfair-to-menslib-in.1063637 https://theredarchive.com/post/1063637

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