This aged well today, in regards to the earlier post of men who do not want to wear condoms yet complain about the repercussions.

catfishchapter · 2021-09-06T02:31:58+00:00

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/pia4gg/women_of_reddit_what_are_the_excuses_men_have/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share Clearly, this...

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Abortion as an option is a process that via biology men don't have. It's unequal, but many things about biology are.

Right.

Why should men get all the pros of reproductive biology and woman all the cons?

Because nature. It's not men's responsibility to put themselves at a disadvantage for women either so, like women say to men, "deal with it."

The ONE con that men have over woman in reproduction is they only get to choose if reproductive sex happens BEFORE reproduction. Woman are able to choose during the process as well as before.

No they aren't lol. Both sexes only get to decide if they have sex with the other or not. After that, there aren't any choices. Don't forget that this choice women believe they have is provided to them by other people. Women cannot individually choose to abort on their own because their bodies don't have the ability to willingly terminate pregnancy.

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How is that relevant?

It's very relevant to this topic of biological equality.

All our choices are pretty much reliant on other people in some manner?

Not really. Not in this context.

And yes they are able to choose. Hence why abortion is legal in ALL states. Even the one with extra hoops.

Abortion is not a defense for itself lol. Try a different approach.

It's not fair men are ultimately unable to choose to become liable for their reproduction after the fact and woman can, but they can.

Nope. You're only saying that because you're allowed to have abortions right now. If they weren't allowed, then we'd be the ones saying "tough luck, kid." Funny how that works.

It's the one thing woman have men don't and like you said men should "just deal with it"

Actually, abortion can just be taken away. Then you wouldn't have a leg to stand on in this argument because you'd have to deal with nature being unfair to you.

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[–]catfishchapter 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

You're back to this idiotic take of "if women's bodies cannot naturally have abortion then abortion is not a right"

Guess what, our bodies cannot do alot of things NATURALLY that has allowed us to sustain the population, cure the sick and fight diseases - is it not a human right to be admitted and cared for in the hospital?

Bodies do not magically put themselves back together. Do you believe surgery is unnatural therefore is not a right for ppl who need it ?

Women also miscarry, which in your definition is the bodies way of rejecting and aborting the child. Miscarriage happens atleast to 10-15% of women who find out they are pregnant.

Surgical abortion is not the only way to abort a child. Herbal mixtures, hangers and injury to oneself to cause trauma is there. Women were ALREADY taking these drastic measures before abortion was legalized. With the technology, advancements and more knowledge we can attain now, this will not stop because a law says it will.

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I do care about the guys getting stuck with paying for the kid when she suddenly doesn’t want the guy anymore after they had kids. Which happens more often than you think.

If you want to raw dog a ONS, or don’t care either your girl is on BC, it’s entirely your own fault.

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If you were looking for a sperm donor you should’ve gone to a sperm bank, not financially rape a man because you just wanted the kids.

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But see, that's where it breaks down for me.

Both men and women have a choice before the woman gets pregnant, and even when contraceptives (condoms, the pill, IUD's, et al.) are used properly, pregnancies still occur.

Women get a mulligan if they become pregnant (and rightfully so, because it's their body) - but also because of the potential impact that having a child will have on their future in other areas.

Men don't have access to this second part of the "after she's pregnant" choice, despite both parties having made the "before she's pregnant" choice together.

I fully support a woman's right to choose, and am disgusted choices made by the State of Texas, the appellate courts, and the Supreme Court itself in this matter. But I do long for a more equitable right to determination of one's future in the long term in regards to any child born (should the woman choose to keep it).

I don't believe the opinion to be misogynistic but rather simply egalitarian, which is the stated goal of feminism as well.

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No, but don’t take it from me, a woman, because we all know that men need to hear things from other men.

There are plenty of doctors who can break this simple, elementary concept to you.

It’s not a 5% death rate to get a vasectomy. What is up with you? Are you that hysterical to equate a failed reversal to death? Please. Birth control makes a lot of women infertile too…that didn’t magically not happen to all those women.

Women are strict about condoms. It’s men who stealth or manipulate/coerce and cry when they can’t do it raw. Women do majority of prevention methods and men do little to nothing. Preaching to us isn’t going to change anything.

So I’m assuming that because you are a man who can get pregnant like women that you can have a say on pregnancy? Right? Because you experience it too. You carry children in you for 9 months?

I’m not even saying I 100% disagree. I think it’s not the best decision for a woman to have a child on her own without a father that doesn’t love that kid. It’s more work, it’s harder to deal with and will affect that child. But while she’s pregnant, that fetus is an attachment of her body it’s not a person and it’s not an attachment of the father. We have no right to force or stop someone from doing what they want to their body.

If you males want less unwanted pregnancies, engage in more preventative methods. I don’t get how that of all things is difficult for men.

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Women have options too (such as tubal ligation).

I'm all for better methods/options for birth control, and when I was of the age and marital status to be having sex with people I wasn't necessarily ready to have children with, I personally would have loved the option to take some male version of "the pill" as long as it didn't cause extreme side effects for me. Notice I didn't say that it had no side effects at all, even fairly serious ones, but only that I personally could tolerate being on it.

That being said, even with a male "pill", I still would have continued with condoms as my primary safe sex method of choice for the benefit of avoiding STD's. And yes, I believe men and women who engage in unprotected sex are both making an irresponsible choice (unless there's trickery or non-consensual sex going on, which is 100% on the perpetrator of that particular situation).

But even in spite of proper use of birth control, pregnancies still occur some percentage of the time. As they say, abstinence is probably the only 100% reliable means of birth control when one person or the other isn't completely infertile.

But I don't think it's fair generally to hold only men to a higher standard of "you had options before you had sex". This is what pro-lifers say to women when they choose to have an abortion, and it seems like a pretty shitty thing to say in that situation, too!

Again, I pretend no right for any man to tell a woman what she must/must not do in regards to her own body. I just feel their are choices made that revolve around physical/health concerns, and choices made around long-term life impact (not a small part of which is financial). I do believe men should have access to the same choice based on the second set of considerations as women do.

Edit: added restatement of the possibility of pregnancy in spite of proper use of birth control.

[–]y2kjanelle 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Eyes_and_teeth 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Just as you would not have a single woman facing the reality of an unwanted pregnancy to have to bear the burden of the behavior of all women, it is unfair to make a single man facing the same circumstance to answer for the actions of all men.

I absolutely agree with you that pregnancy prevention is the responsibility of both people who choose to engage in sex if they do not desire a that as a potential result. Women have more options of birth control than men because there are more non-surgical mechanisms of preventing fertilization for women than are available for men. There aren't many folks advocating for women to have tubal ligations as a reversable form of birth control.

Many men absolutely advocate for and practice safe sex. And in many documentable cases, in spite of this, pregnancies do occur. But I'm guessing you would never suggest a woman that consciously chose to have unprotected sex, risks be damned, be denied the right to choose to have an abortion, right?

So how can you say you are holding men and women to the same standard when you explicitly advocate for a woman to have a post-impregnation choice and yet argue vociferously that men do not deserve to be allowed to make a similar decision regarding their own future after a pregnancy is detected?

[–]y2kjanelle 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Women have more options because we are more responsible that way. We fought for birth control. It used to be illegal…

I’ve never in my life seen a Reddit guy post “Hey let’s encourage more men to create and use birth control”..

I’m sure some men are good about condoms but men are making 0 effort for progress in male contraceptives.

Why do women have more post conception methods? Because women get pregnant and men do not. Because women’s bodies change and suffer for 9 months and their vaginas rip to their when giving birth. Because women get cravings, nausea, their feet swell, they gain weight, periods change, hormones change, and so much more. Becshse women get the ring of FIRE when birthing.

Men don’t get pregnant and do not give birth. They don’t go through any procedures and there’s nothing at all holding them to that child. That child will have only the mothers support.

27% of fathers never see their kids again after a custody battle…..

Literally child support was made to stop men from having a ton of children and just leaving…. Men aren’t making very good choices.

I’m holding men and women to the same standard in terms of prevention.

When it comes to pregnancy, men literally won’t have the same standards because it’s pretty obvious, men don’t have BABIES.

[–]Eyes_and_teeth 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

And as I stated previously, men have no place in a woman's decision to either keep or abort a pregnancy. Her body, her choice. Period.

But as I have clearly also stated previously, I am talking about the choice of the post-pregnancy impact of a child, which I feel men and women should both have access to. Not only can a woman choose to have an abortion, she can also carry the pregnancy to term and then choose to give the child up for adoption if she doesn't want the long term responsibility; a man is not presented with the option to make the same choice.

Meanwhile, your arguments continue to express a seemingly vitriolic desire for men (and men only) to unavoidably suffer the long term life-changing econsequences of their choice to engage in sex but yet not hold a woman to the same treatment for her same choice. Don't get me wrong, as I previously have stated, I believe in a women's right to choose. I just men should be able to partake in some aspects of that same choice.

I don't appreciate when pro-lifers insist that abstinence be a young woman's only means of preventing the long term consequences of an unwanted pregnancy, nor do I appreciate when many women insist on the same single avenue of prevention for men.

And, finally, as a man, I would happily post encouragement that men both diligently use existing forms of male birth control and contribute to research towards development of other reliable means and methods of achieving that same outcome. I just don't see that it has much bearing on the subject of debate/discussion, which is the equality of choice after a pregnancy has been detected.

[–]y2kjanelle 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

What is it that you want men to be able to do? Abort a fetus in someone else’s body??

Post pregnancy? You mean when that child is born?

Legally the father has the same rights to a child as the mother. There are circumstances, however, that make it very difficult to get the father’s consent in adoption. This is true in situations where the father is abusive or has disappeared. These circumstances leave a birth mother asking can you put a child up for adoption without the father’s consent?

“It is possible to put a child up for adoption without the father’s consent. In the future, however, if the father decides that he wants his child, then this may place an already established adoption in jeopardy. The father at that point may have the right to sue for custody of his child.”

https://fundyouradoption.org/resources/put-a-child-up-for-adoption-without-the-fathers-consent/

What rights do you want fathers to have that they don’t already? I may have missed something.

I’m not bitter about men and if you think that you’re just uneducated. I mean seriously. It’s so obvious that men are not taking as much precaution as women. That is why they are suffering. If more men got vasectomies or asked for birth control, they’d have more control over pregnancy. So what do you expect?…

That’s like not wearing your seatbelt and complaining about how hurt you are in an accident..it’s not a good situation, yeah, it happens, yeah, but there’s a reason preventative measures exist! And men AS A WHOLE are much less likely to partake in prevention.

So what is it that you want women to give up so men can be more comfortable? What more can we give? You have rights to that child and you can sign them away. If a step father comes into the picture, you can stop paying child support.

The only exceptions for men in my eyes would be in cases of male rape victims, and male victims of manipulation or coercion.

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I will be messaging you in 4 years on 2026-09-05 00:00:00 UTC to remind you of this link

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[–]catfishchapter -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Mrs_DrgreeWomen Are Right About Islam[M] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

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[–]UrFoodMolestedMyNoserainbow pills- a full course meal. 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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A ton of men already do opt of child support and parental obligations trust me. Just don’t sign the birth certificate.

Can still go after them even then

And option B isn’t what’s happening now. There are no draconian child supports laws or pregnancy support being enacted. Seems a touch one sided doesn’t it?

It's coming. Pregnancy support has already been instituted in Utah. Fuck you have had it the other way for 48 years (jailing for 30) and you're whining about one fucking week check your privilege or whatever nonsense.

Your original post seemed quite jubilant that women’s health choices were being limited and I just wondered what about that appeals to men so much. We suffer you suffer

If there's involuntary child support, then ban abortion

If abortion is legal, then give men an opt out

There is no other acceptable outcome

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This aged well today, in regards to the earlier post of men who do not want to wear condoms yet complain about the repercussions.

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PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR NONE

OR FOR ALL

PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR NONE

OR FOR ALL

MAGA